Battery voltages

[Chris_SVS]

So having some cold start issues lately and not knowing a lot about the battery history of my K6, I changed it for a nice new one this morning.****

(no load) 13.8v
(ignition+lights) 12.8v
(Engine) 16.4v

Compared to the new battery

(no load) 14.8v
(ignition+lights) 14.2v
(Engine) 17.3v

Could I reasonably assume there is a charging or R/R issue at play here?

****I have a Bibio gizmo installed but none of the accessories were turned on or plugged in (heated grips/garmin cradle/12v socket)

[andy650]

The engine running voltages are way too high. No wonder the old battery died.

Suspect RR, but also check the wiring which is particularly prone to being weak.

[Chris_SVS]

Silly question, which wiring?

[Bibio]

yup those volts are a tad too high. sounds like the RR is failing which is not common on a K6.

to get at the connectors for the RR requires you to take the airbox off then on the right hand side of the bike at the side of the front cylinder there is the RR bolted to the fame. take the connectors off that exit from the RR and have a good look at the condition. these connectors are 'waterproof' and can fill with moisture so if there is then dry out and apply some ACF50.

next up is to try the output voltages from the generator (remember to switch the DMM to AC)

https://s1.postimg.org/1vmv7e0027/image.jpg

https://s1.postimg.org/29tay9hqfj/image.jpg

https://s1.postimg.org/103563x9bj/image.jpg

if that does not fix it then i would presume that you need a new RR or generator.

[Bibio]

forgot to say the easy way to keep the engine running at 5000rpm is to put an elastic band on the throttle and the brake lever then move the band.

[Chris_SVS]

Regulated voltage at idle (I took my readings on startup during fast idle around 3k) Both old and new battery 16.4 and 17.3 respectively

All of the coil resistance readings were 0.5 - 0.6 ohms

Generator test not done as it's sunday and my neighbours hate me already.

R/R testing itself, done with reversed polarity. My borrowed tester displays a 1 for a reversed diode

BR BR BW BW
B1 647 647 1 1
B2 645 645 1 1
B3 646 646 1 1

BR BR BW BW
B1 1 1 606 607
B2 1 1 606 605
B3 1 1 611 611

The only thing that looks wrong here is the battery voltage at idle, which suggests regulator?

[Bibio]

its a while since i have tested an RR.

fresh battery should be around 13v with ignition off
with ignition on it will drop to around 12.?v
at idle it should be around 13.?v
at 5k revs it should be around14-15v

if any of those voltages are higher than should be then its more than likely the RR.

now here is the sticky point. the more AC the generator kicks out the more DC the rectifiers in the RR will pass, usually this is not much of a problem with a few odd AC voltages here or there as the regulator takes care of it. if the generator is kicking out a lot more AC then the regulators cant cope and overheat then fail.

if the rectifiers fail then it will pass AC voltage or no voltage so since you are getting DC voltage then that part of the circuit should be fine.

so you have to test the AC voltages to determine if it is the generator or RR. thing is if it is the generator then most of the time its taken the RR out as well.

if the AC voltages from the generator are fine then its the RR but without testing the AC you will never know.

99% of the time its the RR that fails.

[Bibio]

another side thought.. when was the last time you checked your oil level?

[Chris_SVS]

Gotcha, will get it sorted tomorrow without being as anti-social :)

Thanks for your assistance, much appreciated :drink:

[Chris_SVS]

another side thought.. when was the last time you checked your oil level?
Couple of weeks ago, I actually noted today on my whiteboard to change it in about 1000mi, no filter due this time

[Chris_SVS]

All voltages over 60V ac, the many uses of cable ties :D

[Bibio]

All voltages over 60V ac, the many uses of cable ties :D
did you note down the voltages and if so what were they?

lets go back to the beginning here and i'm going to ask what were the cold starting symptoms?

[Chris_SVS]

did you note down the voltages and if so what were they?

lets go back to the beginning here and i'm going to ask what were the cold starting symptoms?
Nope :oops:

Felt and sounded laboured and reluctant, a couple of times it didn't start at all.(This is a bike I ride every day but only happening recently) Since changing the battery it's been literally razor sharp on the button every single time.

For reference the old battery of questionable age is a Yuasa YB9B 9.5AH 115CCA the new one is a BS Battery BTX12 10.5AH 180CCA

**I do believe having consulted the mighty google, that the standard pointy battery should be a YTX12-BS,12V,10AH with a CCA of 180

[Bibio]

i'm concerned about the high voltages. it should not be that high. this will kill your battery. i'm leaning towards your RR being dodgy.

BTW even with nothing 'on' with my gizmo the gizmo is 'on'. when you turn the ignition on the gizmo comes on. for a laugh disconnect the gizmo even though it should not matter.

[Chris_SVS]

i'm concerned about the high voltages. it should not be that high. this will kill your battery. i'm leaning towards your RR being dodgy.

BTW even with nothing 'on' with my gizmo the gizmo is 'on'. when you turn the ignition on the gizmo comes on. for a laugh disconnect the gizmo even though it should not matter.
I jumped the gun slightly and bought an R/R last night, should have it thursday :) Will do gizmo when seats off again checking battery v :p

Once again, thanks for your help:thumleft:

[R1ffR4ff]

Whilst you are doing these jobs take the Starter Motor off and strip and clean it and bare the areas where it grounds to the engine making sure there's no corrosion,paint or grease there and the Positive pole connection is good and clean.

It's an often overlooked service point but can pay big dividend on engine starting.

HTH :)

[Chris_SVS]

Whilst you are doing these jobs take the Starter Motor off and strip and clean it and bare the areas where it grounds to the engine making sure there's no corrosion,paint or grease there and the Positive pole connection is good and clean.

It's an often overlooked service point but can pay big dividend on engine starting.

HTH :)
Can do!

[Chris_SVS]

Replacement R/R tested and fitted this afternoon. Voltages back to well within healthy ranges, chucking out a lovely 14.5v @5000RPM.

Static and idle voltages in the 12.8 - 13v region and just over 12 on ignition. Luvverly :)

[Bibio]

puuurfect :-)

[Chris_SVS]

purrrring like a kitten, a really large annoyed and overly aggressive snorting kitten but still :p

[R1ffR4ff]

That's good news.Did and clean the Large multi-connector pins and sockets between the R/R and Stator?Any corrosion should be removed.R/R units are a very robust device and under normal conditions can last many years.

I have some that are over 35 years old and still working however it's the Multi-connector and corrosion there that causes the most failures in them.

[Chris_SVS]

That's good news.Did and clean the Large multi-connector pins and sockets between the R/R and Stator?Any corrosion should be removed.R/R units are a very robust device and under normal conditions can last many years.

I have some that are over 35 years old and still working however it's the Multi-connector and corrosion there that causes the most failures in them.
Yep given a clean(didn't need much), all good now :D

I've also became a master of fiddly jobs, never had the tank off once :P

[R1ffR4ff]

Yep given a clean, all good now :D

Nice one :)

Mine are treated with ACF50 and any time I need to access the rear fairing I'll check and clean it again and or next Spring as part of my,"Pre-Season" servicing where I go through the electrics as well as everything else that's needed.

[Chris_SVS]

Added to my mental list of jobs to do :) If we get a spell of icy weather, my commute isn't rideable so I can take the time to get stuck into neglected stuff. Throttle body assy looks a bit manky but functional, oil cooler and hoses could do with a freshen up kinda stuff

[R1ffR4ff]

Yep given a clean(didn't need much), all good now :D

I've also became a master of fiddly jobs, never had the tank off once :P

Added to my mental list of jobs to do :) If we get a spell of icy weather, my commute isn't rideable so I can take the time to get stuck into neglected stuff. Throttle body assy looks a bit manky but functional, oil cooler and hoses could do with a freshen up kinda stuff


ACF50 is great on hoses.Keeps them from decaying and is great on the clamps as well :)

[Chris_SVS]

All part of the master plan my good man :P

[R1ffR4ff]

Wrong post

[Bibio]

ACF50 is great on hoses.Keeps them from decaying and is great on the clamps as well :)

i found something that ACF-50 does not like... latex. i wrapped a connector in a latex glove with some acf50 and it turned the glove into jelly within a week.