Topyokes conversion

[Tapemonkey]

Hi All, here's a few pics of my handlebar conversion.

I started to get a few aches in the wrists so splashed out on a topyokes conversion.

I tried the conversion using the original throttle cables but to be honest I think this is to be avoided. There is a really extreme angle on the cables as they leave the throttle bodies so I got the Venhill extended cables.

Brake lines were an extended set for the naked SV but the race setup.

Also took the oppertunity to fit some Oxford heated grips which are great.

The comfort is transformed entirely, no more wrist aches and the riding position is almost supermotard like with the wide renthal ultralow bars.

Highly reccomended.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/419x314q90/r/922/CLNGaL.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/419x314q90/r/924/hSXvYV.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/236x314q90/r/924/V0kEgi.jpg

[maviczap]

Nice

[Stilo]

I am just doing something similar, is that the best route for the throttle cables?

[Tapemonkey]

I ran them through the left side of the frame, the most direct route to the throttle bodies with the least kinks for the cables.

[Chris_SVS]

The best colour for a K6

[Jayneflakes]

I used custom cables when I did my conversion, they are easy enough to make, with a load of stainless wire and some solder on nipples. :D

[Adam Ef]

I tried the conversion using the original throttle cables but to be honest I think this is to be avoided. There is a really extreme angle on the cables as they leave the throttle bodies so I got the Venhill extended cables.

Brake lines were an extended set for the naked SV but the race setup.




Hi. Do you have any info on the throttle cables? Were they the ones that Venhill make for the naked SV? Or were they specially made for you by them?
Also where did you get brake lines? Am I right in assuming if I get the Hel lines specified for the naked SV they'd be long enough? I wouldn't be going with the race setup, just the standard line with the connection between calipers.
Looking at swapping out the clutch cable too while I'm at it and again, assuming I should be ordering one for the naked SV to be the right length.


If anyone has any info / advice with cable lengths and where to get them then that would be greatly appreciated.

[maviczap]

Ask Bibio

[Bibio]

no point in asking me anything as i have explained this in great detail elsewhere in other threads to which it always falls on deaf ears.

i will give you a hint though.. it involves string and a measuring tape.

[Adam Ef]

no point in asking me anything as i have explained this in great detail elsewhere in other threads to which it always falls on deaf ears.

i will give you a hint though.. it involves string and a measuring tape.


Ok. Cheers. Not turning up anything with the search terms I'm using on your posts though.
If anyone knows the link to Bibios post can they let me know.


There are a lot of posts on here about doing the conversion, but I can't find the one mentioned.


I'm trying to have everything ready to go and ordered to give to someone who is doing the conversion for me as kind of a favour. Don't want to mess them around waiting for parts during the job if possible.

[Adam Ef]

Cheers. That Google search tip turns up better results than the search on here surprisingly.

[Adam Ef]

After all that it appears that the Topyokes full kit now offers the extended throttle cables as well as the brake lines.
I'm still tempted to try the slightly longer naked clutch cable to keep the routing smooth. Looking at the Venhill ones they come as either straight or with a slight curved elbow at the end. Apparently the curved cable is the same as the original Suzuki but the one currently fitted on mine (pointy K 8 is straight. Does anybody have any experience or opinion on the straight vs curved options?


+ Bibio, are you still making the switchgear wiring extensions?

[SV650rules]

Those bars look like the same as AL7 ones, maybe a tad wider ? I find the AL7 bars very comfortable.

[Adam Ef]

...I used one from a DL650 which was about 200mm longer (approx 1200mm)....


Cheers. Looking at the one currently fitted again it looks like it has a lot of slack, so may be not the original, given that it also doesn't have the bend near the end that the original is supposed to have. I'm going to give it a go using the one that is already there, hoping it was a slightly longer than original that has been fitted in the past.


Topyokes kit ordered. I'll update when it arrives... possibly 3 weeks.. possibly 3 months? Hopefully not 3 years!


Cheers for all help and input.

[Bibio]

+ Bibio, are you still making the switchgear wiring extensions?

no coz you dont need them. all you do is disconnect the connector form the stay bar behind the headstock.

[Adam Ef]

no coz you dont need them. all you do is disconnect the connector form the stay bar behind the headstock.


Cheers. I was guessing you'd say that having seen the pics of it being done. Good to have the confirmation from someone with the experiance. Thanks Bibio.

[Bibio]

clutch cable - 2005 bandit 650

i will measure brake lines and throttle cables tomorrow if i get a chance.
all measurements will be for Renthal medium road bars.

you will also need a rubberised P clip with an L bracket to hold the brake rez.

[Adam Ef]

Topyokes kit all arrived today. 20 days isn't bad I suppose. Not the 10 days mentioned on the site, but not as bad as the couple of months I was expecting from their reputation. Nothing fitted yet so not sure if supplied hoses and cables are the right size, but will feedback on that when it's done.
I ordered the plain black anodized Topyoke, but appear to have been given one with the engraved SV650s logo, which should have cost more so i'm not going to complain.

[maviczap]

Topyokes kit all arrived today. 20 days isn't bad I suppose. Not the 10 days mentioned on the site, but not as bad as the couple of months I was expecting from their reputation. Nothing fitted yet so not sure if supplied hoses and cables are the right size, but will feedback on that when it's done.
I ordered the plain black anodized Topyoke, but appear to have been given one with the engraved SV650s logo, which should have cost more so i'm not going to complain.

Think mine took 9 months to arrive :-)

Matts work is top notch, just disorganised :smt114

[Adam Ef]

Think mine took 9 months to arrive :-)

Matts work is top notch, just disorganised :smt114


I did the bank transfer too and thought that would be setting me up to be dropped to the bottom of the list.



Yep, all looks quality. The yoke is reassuringly chunky. I didn't expect to get the bolts with the hoses either and they're included. The bars seem so wide and quite a big rise on them. Worrying now that I'm going to miss the clip on position! I'm sure my worries will disappear though if I manage over an hour on the bike in one go without wrist pain. Here's hoping.

[Adam Ef]

Good progress on the fitting today. Until... fitting the supplied throttle cables. Attaching a few pics here of the supplied cables in case anyone can tell me if I'm going mad trying to work out how the supplied cables would ever fit? Have I been supplied with the wrong ones? Do I have a non standard throttle fitted? The curve doesn't match up at all. The ends are very different to the originals, including the fittings etc.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1970/44060468245_8d6506926b_c.jpg


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1922/43160725070_4166a65b68_c.jpg


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1936/44924031302_e0c2d3687b_c.jpg


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1908/44924031082_41ae765bdb_c.jpg


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1937/44253446314_3f302abe98_c.jpg

[Bibio]

your not mad. those are not the right cables.

[Adam Ef]

your not mad. those are not the right cables.


but they are the ones supplied from Topyokes with the kit. Supplied as the correct ones for a K8 Sv650s.


Time to email Matt? Oh dear.. here comes the fun...

[Adam Ef]

I'm guessing this would be more suitable?
https://www.venhill.co.uk/s01-4-106-c.html

[Adam Ef]

Very fast email back from Matt. He says he'll refund the cables he supplied if I return them and I should get my own as it'll be quicker.
So.. if anyone has any advice if the extra 60mm on those Venhill cables will be enough it'd be great to have some input. Otherwise I'll just take another chance and order and hopefully not have to send another pair back wrong. Need to get it sorted asap as mechanic friend currently has my dismantled bike taking up his workshop space.
Cheers in advance for any help anyone can offer.

[Bibio]

somebody had better bookmark this as i'm not digging all this info out again.

these sizes have been tried and tested on a topyokes conversion on an SV650 SK8 with Renthal Medium Road Bars. i have the whole kit here in front of me off the bike and it all worked perfect on the bike.

front brake hoses:
1 x 840mm eye centre to eye centre. 2x 20deg 10mm banjo.
1 x 800mm eye centre to eye centre. 1x straight 10mm banjo, 1x 20deg 10mm banjo. (right hand calliper)

throttle cables:
the ones i custom made have the longest inner at 890mm (were a tad too long) so you would have to measure the longest inner (thin cable) and see what the difference is.
remember that its not one size fits all due to different bars.

NOTE: if you want a perfect size then you need to install the top yoke, ignition switch, bars and throttle cable housing in the correct place then remove the cables from the throttle bodies, turn the bars to full (right) lock then measure the gap between the old cable and the throttle body lock nut adjuster allowing for a little wiggle room. once you have the difference in gap length then you jut get new cables mad up with that difference.

clutch cable:
Suzuki GSF 650 K5 Bandit 05 Clutch Cable
Outer is 108.5cm - Inner is 115.5cm

[Adam Ef]

Thanks Bibio. Amazing help.


Got another message from Matt after I sent him the photo of the old and supplied cables for comparison. He's seeing what he has in stock. I think I'm going to source my own though.
As you can see in the photos, not only are the ends totally wrong, the lengths are dodgy. One is the same length as the originals that have been removed and the other is longer! Not sure what the logic, or lack of there is.

[Adam Ef]

somebody had better bookmark this as i'm not digging all this info out again.

these sizes have been tried and tested on a topyokes conversion on an SV650 SK8 with Renthal Medium Road Bars...

throttle cables:
the ones i custom made have the longest inner at 890mm (were a tad too long) so you would have to measure the longest inner (thin cable) and see what the difference is.
remember that its not one size fits all due to different bars.




Original longer throttle inner measures 790mm. Venhill state that those extended cables are 60mm longer than originals. I'm going to phone them Monday to confirm what that actual length is. If the longer Venhill is 850mm (790+60) then that would tally with your 890mm being slightly too long and that I'm using the low bars instead of the medium. Not very exact workings, but looks like getting in the right ball park. I'm going to do as you say and measure the gap with old cables fitted Monday morning too hopefully.


Thanks again for all your help.

[Adam Ef]

Looks like people have had success with the Venhill +60mm...


https://sv650scrambler.wordpress.com/2017/04/18/riser-bars-noooo/#more-234
+
https://www.svrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117417#/topics/117417

[Bibio]

you'll be fine using the +60 venhills with the low bars.

mind and pop up a finished shot when your done.

BTW to attach the brake rez and bracket you can use a 22mm P clip on the bars.

[Adam Ef]

you'll be fine using the +60 venhills with the low bars.

mind and pop up a finished shot when your done.

BTW to attach the brake rez and bracket you can use a 22mm P clip on the bars.


Will get pics and cable / bar specs up in one post when done for future reference.


I've got p-clips at my workshop, but going to try a (bicycle) handlebar bottle cage mount that I have and a mending plate shaped for the reservoir.


I've also worked out that the cables Matt has supplied are for the naked SV. A bit frustrating as I worked out that they were different a while ago and when the Topyokes page suddenly changed to offer the throttle cables as part of the package I assumed they'd know that too. Apparently not though. Never assume anything! Matt is being good about the return though and very quick with email communication, even at the weekend which is impressive. I've try and pass on the info about the difference in S and N throttle cables to him diplomaticaly for his future reference so he doesn't send them to anyone else.

[Adam Ef]

Conversion is all done. I'll get some pics and specs up soon. I've got pics of the Venhill +60mm cables compared to the originals and the hoses Matt supplied compared to originals with measurements.


First impressions. It's very different! Steering is very light. I've ony been out twice, but very apparent I'm going to have to adjust as I keep oversteering! Position is comfortable. Feels a bit less involved with the bike but in a relaxed sort of way.


I am wondering if I could be slightly lower. I thought I was getting the ultra low Renthals from Matt but seems I have the low... with are about 4cm more rise.


Having a few issues with the throttle feeling twitchy and trying to work out it's an adjustment issue, new cables being free-er moving than the old ones or my position being more upright meaning I'm bounced around more by the road due to the bad rear shock. The old lower position did seem to isolate my upper body from the bumps more as my waist and lower back were bent more and flexed with the bumps. The new upright position just sends all bumps straight up through me and is possibly jogging my arms more, causing me to jog the throttle more.


I need to swap out the rubbish grips I have on there temporarily (as old were destroyed removing them). I know I am gripping the throttle too hard as the grips are really slippery.

[Adam Ef]

Yep, I've definitley been supplied the 754-01 Renthals, not the 758-01 that was specified on the site. Damn. All drilled for controls now and fitted. 35mm more height and 25mm more sweep... might explain why it feels slightly high.

[Bibio]

Yep, I've definitley been supplied the 754-01 Renthals, not the 758-01 that was specified on the site. Damn. All drilled for controls now and fitted. 35mm more height and 25mm more sweep... might explain why it feels slightly high.

thats what you want. it will take a bit of getting used to but once you do its much better.

counter steering will feel weird and very sensitive to begin with but it also makes for a much more relaxed ride as your not using much effort so less fatigue on a ride.

as for sitting up more then yes it does place more strain on your bum which shows up just how shizz the SV seat really is. if your young and fit it should cause no problems, if your tall then an air pad works wonders.

[Adam Ef]

I'm finding myself naturally leaning forward still and my arms end up at a very closed angle, forearms angling up instead of flat. Very odd.


Started to feel more at home with the light touch of the bars / steering today.


Visited a shop that had the low and medium Renthals in stock today, so compared the two and there's not a huge difference between them, mainly slightly more sweep in the mediums and slightly less overall length. They didn't have the ultra lows in stock that I wanted to compare though to see what I should have received. As far as I can make out the specs show more of a jump from the ultra low to low than the low to medium.



Also sorted the twitchiness a bit by taking out more of the throttle freeplay. I know there's meant to be a bit in there, but it feels better with as little as possible. All fine with bars at full lock. It does feel like the throttle is closing of more abruptly than before the conversion, which leads to quite jerky engine braking moments. Adjusting my usual throttle and clutch repsonse will no doubt help over time, but can't help feeling that the push throttle cable is maybe too tight? There's no adjustment left up top though so guessing it's a case of getting under the air box again to give it a bit more slack at the throttle bodies, which I'd rather avoid.

[Adam Ef]

t
as for sitting up more then yes it does place more strain on your bum which shows up just how shizz the SV seat really is.


This is one thing that has become quickly apparent!


That and visibility in the mirrors isn't quite as good due to the angle I'm now viewing from. Plus arms being wider apart on the longer bars, obscuring the view too. I already have mirror extenders fitted.

[Bibio]

your forearms should be as parallel with the road surface as possible with your elbows bent, doing this will take the strain off your wrists and help with control. your forearms should go up and down pivoting at the elbow. you should be able to do the "funky chicken" with your arms.

NEVER EVER ride with straight arms and locked elbows.

[Bibio]

check your TPS setting. this removes a fair bit of "jerkyness". there are a few threads on here.

[Adam Ef]

Some pics...
First, with the wrong bars fitted (that I was sent by Matt --- I ordered the Ultra Low and was sent the low, which are very near the dimensions of the mediums)...


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1932/44452118805_219cc7fb4f_c.jpg


After spending the best part of £300 I couldn't live with having the wrong bars fitted. I felt slightly too upright. I couldn't return the bars to Matt as I'd drilled them. So I just bit the bullet and just ordered some Ultra Lows. Here's with the Ultra Low Renthals fitted. Doesn't look that different in the photo, but sitting on the bike feels a lot more natural already than the slightly higher bars did.
...
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1914/45366479871_3ea6cd5951_c.jpg
.

[Adam Ef]

Couple of pics to compare the Renthal "low" (754-01) and "ultra low" (758-01) bars as I couldn't find any visual comparison online...
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https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1907/44452118625_e77375f223_c.jpg
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https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1929/45366478031_87c9598101_c.jpg.

[Adam Ef]

Photos of throttle cable length and front brake hoses.
Throttle cables are the +60mm Venhill ones. Brake hoses were supplied as part of the kit from Topyokes. Both fit fine with both the low and ultra-low Renthal bars. They could probably afford to be a cm or two shorter with the ultra-low bars. No shorter for the low though. Likewise standard switchgear / ignition rerouted and removed from the retaining bracket under the tank was just long enough with the low bars and fine with the ultra-low. Clutch cable is the 2005 Bandit 650 one as suggested by Bibio and all fits perfectly with no tight spots or bends.
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https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1926/30430021447_a818f0872e_z.jpg
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https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1904/30430022317_a5a8949ca7_z.jpg

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https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1971/30430022217_7f8e88776d_z.jpg
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https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1933/44455719665_905a54b79c_z.jpg
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https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1943/31494117578_f75b9583e1_z.jpg
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https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1921/44455716125_4f94c5cbb0_z.jpg
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[Flybuster]

Nice work. Does look the business mind. Was thinking about doing this on my curvy. I think I'd need to trim off some fairing being a curvy.

[Adam Ef]

Also, throttle cables will be going behind the reservoir once I've stopped messing with throttle freeplay adjustments etc trying to sort out the jerky low revs and hard cutout / /engine braking issue. Trying the TPS adjustment tomorrow that Bibio suggested....
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=55459&highlight=throttle+position+sensor

[Adam Ef]

...I think I'd need to trim off some fairing being a curvy.


I think Maviczap said he opted for the Gilles Variobars instead of the Topyokes conversion so that he had the adjustability to not have the bars clash with the fairing on the curvy.
There was a Gilles kit available on eBay a few weeks back..


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gilles-Vario-Bars-Clip-Ons-80mm-Risers-Kit-suit-SV650-amp-Others-41mm-forks-/332775522429?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=tDzXXSoNrnCHYLEbbMam7EiaYpc%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

[maviczap]

Yep Gilles on my curvy

[Bibio]

if those are the correct sizes for the inner throttle cables from venhill then they are +90mm. longest original inner should be 770mm and your new ones from venhill are 860mm then thats +90mm. or i could be wrong...

[Adam Ef]

check your TPS setting. this removes a fair bit of "jerkyness". there are a few threads on here.


I tried this today. It was set at, or had drifted to 4500rpm!! Way out! Tricky getting it to stay at the setting you've set as doing the bolt up again seems to affect the setting as the adjustments needed are so tiny to change it. The extra pressure on the bolt seemed to be back it off slightly. By luck I managed to set it at about 1600rpm. Very short test ride and it felt smoother on the throttle but the engine felt lumpy. Much less able to pull in the low gears, almost like it was going to stall unless I shifted up quite quickly. Very different to normal where I can stay in 1st up to something like 40mph if needed (not that I do)!
So adjusted it again using the hit and miss, do up the bolt, see what it says, undo and redo until it's set around something I'm happy to try method, and eventually got it at about 2100rpm. Which is where I've left it for today. I'll test ride again tomorrow.


Edit :this is on a K8 so there's only the one bolt to undo.

[Adam Ef]

if those are the correct sizes for the inner throttle cables from venhill then they are +90mm. longest original inner should be 770mm and your new ones from venhill are 860mm then thats +90mm. or i could be wrong...


My measurements aren't super precise and I was using a tape measure to go around the curves at the throttle fittings end, so I may have added a few mm. You're right though, they do seem to be longer than the 60mm they state. All fits perfectly though so happy either way.


Still waiting on a refund on the wrongly supplied cables from Matt. In fact, still waiting on even a hint of a reply to my three emails I've sent about it now.

[Bibio]

good stuff.. i've noticed as the bike clocks up the miles the clutch basket seems to loosen up and the "chuddering" starts so you have to keep the revs higher at lower speeds, no way can i cruse at 30mph in 6th. mind you thats also a trait of a v twin.. BTW you dont need to have the bike running to do the TPS you just need to move the throttle or as i do it just off the mark moving, its a Throttle POSITION Sensor.

they dont go out often due to the auto idle but a TB balance might be in order. only trouble is you NEED the sds tool to do it. curvys on the other hand...

[Adam Ef]

Would fitting the new throttle cables have had an effect on this and made it need the TPS adjustment more? I noticed it was always a bit grabby under 3k revs before but not as bad as after I did the conversion and had the new cables fitted. First ride out I nearly came off trying to leave a junction when the lights went green. The throttle was so on and off it nearly threw me off starting around a corner out of the junction. I wondered what was going on.

[Bibio]

the slack in the throttle (cables) dictates when the throttle cam is rotated. when you take up the slack by twisting the throttle its at the biting point (no more slack) is when you start to turn the actual throttle cam which then dictates the position of the sensor in relation to the throttle position. if there is too much cable slack then you need to turn the throttle more from throttle stop on the grip/housing before the throttle takes effect. this can cause the rider difficulty in finding the on/off which in turn can cause a snatchy throttle.

to adjust the throttle you need the bars at "full stretch lock" then tighten the pull cable so there is just a tiny little bit of slack so as to not raise the revs going from full lock to full lock. once thats done you can adjust the close cable so that it works in tandem with the pull, e.g. no slack feeling between the two and the throttle snaps back to off when let go.

the TPS only comes into play after the throttle slack is taken up so should not need adjusted after adjusting the cable slack.

[Adam Ef]

Another test ride again today and felt a bit smoother but still not quite right. It still seems a bit too on/off even at higher revs (around 5k). Definitely smoother at lower revs though. I've adjusted it down from the 2k rpm to about 1600 this evening, so will test again tomorrow.


Only downside I can feel is I can't be as lazy with my gear changes. It's more sensitive to being in the right gear and needs shifting up sooner than it did before.


Possibly needs the throttle body synchronising looking at? It's only done just under 13k miles? I'm still wondering if the push throttle cable being slightly too tight would have this effect too? I can't adjust any more slack into it up top with the adjuster, so I'd have to back it off at the throttle body if I do anything. Worth me trying to back it off and readjust?

[Flybuster]

I think Maviczap said he opted for the Gilles Variobars instead of the Topyokes conversion so that he had the adjustability to not have the bars clash with the fairing on the curvy.
There was a Gilles kit available on eBay a few weeks back..


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gilles-Vario-Bars-Clip-Ons-80mm-Risers-Kit-suit-SV650-amp-Others-41mm-forks-/332775522429?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=tDzXXSoNrnCHYLEbbMam7EiaYpc%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc


Yeah, I've looked at them as well. Probably my best bet.

[Adam Ef]

First proper ride out for a few hours today. 100+ miles and wow, what a difference! I could have kept riding all day. The bars are much better, much lighter in feel and now so glad I did the conversion. I wish I'd done it sooner and had more comfort in the last couple of years. I've been thinking of doing it and putting it off since I got the bike. There are moments where I miss the clip ons when speeds are higher on gently curving roads, but I'm sure if I had them back I'd be cursing them.


TPS adjustment down to 1600rpm (or immediatley as the throttle starts as suggested by Bibio) feels much better too. The engine definitely feels a bit revvier and benefits from keeping the revs up and being confident and defnite with the throttle too for a bit more smoothness. I think I've always had a habit of keeping revs too low. Slightly less engine braking than before but I've adjusted to that pretty quickly. Will be interested to see if my mpg changes as I've always got approx 60 to 65mpg in the last couple of years. The way it's revving feels like I'll be burning more fuel.



The moments of jerkiness today can be put down to realising how many of the roads are in such bad shape near us now, not helped by the stock suspension (next on the list to sort out) and all the bumps knocking me about making me nudge the throttle occaisionally... and also my moments of ineptitude : )


For anyone who is thinking of doing the conversion I'd definitely say just do it. Very pleased.