gladius problem

[darrentwins]

hello, I am new to bikes in the sense i have had my first bike for a year (gladius 09) and know very little about them. I'm having a problem, there is no power to ignition. Battery is good and all fuses are ok...and that's about my limit..I need help in what to check next and how to check....Like i say I'm new to this so please be patient with my lack of knowledge and any help would be very much appreciated..

[maviczap]

Check the connection to the ignition which is probably under the tank.

By good battery, how do you know this?

[SV650rules]

If it is original battery it may well not be OK - when you say no power to ignition do you mean it turns over but will not start because no spark, or does not turn over - does the headlight come on when key is in 'on' position ?

Try the kill switch ( I never use it because when I did on a couple of bikes it gave problems and needed a bit of fiddling (taking apart and fixing) to get it to complete the circuit again, I just turn the key off now to stop engine ).

There are a few switches in the ignition circuit, ( one on the clutch lever - maybe only on L7) and one on the prop stand as well as the kill switch by throttle grip.

try this wiring diagram for SFV..

http://www.classiccycles.org/media//DIR_1653304/DIR_1762756/1b0aa491b60a7ac3ffff84a0ffffe415.pdf

[darrentwins]

Hi and Thanks
I know it's a good battery because it's just new and has full charge.
Iturn key and get nothing at all. I turned key first thing yesterday and it turned lights on on dash, done it's little test then like a fuse blew and nothing..I have checked all the fuses i can find...sorry i'm useless..but i'll keep trying everything offered

[maviczap]

Like SV rules says, even though the battery may be new, it could still die, especially in the recent cold weather.

Its such a small battery, it doesn't take much to stop it turning the engine over

If a fuse did blow, you have an electrical fault somewhere.

Not my best subject I'm afraid

We need a bit more detail on what happens when you turn the key on now

[SV650rules]

Hi and Thanks
I know it's a good battery because it's just new and has full charge.
Iturn key and get nothing at all. I turned key first thing yesterday and it turned lights on on dash, done it's little test then like a fuse blew and nothing..I have checked all the fuses i can find...sorry i'm useless..but i'll keep trying everything offered

Did you check fuses visually or with a multi-meter (sometimes fuses can look as though they are OK but will not pass current) ? Due to fact it happened suddenly and did not appear to blow a fuse it may be a broken wire in the region where cables get bent and flexed (was failing anyway and then an extra bit of load blew the last strand).

Sometimes no other way really than to check every plug and socket and their condition, give the wires going into plugs and sockets a little tug just to make sure wire and crimp has not parted company, you can use a multi-meter or a 5w 12V (or larger wattage if you like) with wire soldered on and one wire earthed and use the other wire to track the flow of power past each plug, I have used a dressmakers or safety pin pushed into cable through insulation to check stuff before, it is useful sometimes to check if power actually getting through plug / socket while they still plugged in.

If you can get hold of ACF50 many people on here regularly squirt a bit into plugs and sockets to prevent future corrosion, I have used vaseline before when nothing else around (use it on battery terminals as well).

[Heorot]

I have a K3 and there is a switch under the clutch lever and another in the stand. The clutch lever switch on my bike failed . Turning the ignition on, but the bike wouldn't start. If SV650rules K7 has the switch, then it's almost certain that your Gladius has too.

[SV650rules]

Are you now saying that you no longer have power to the instrument panel? No lights etc? If that is the case you need to check the main fuse, it is separate from the other fuses and is located with the starter relay.

This link shows the under seat of the Gladius:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB724GB724&biw=1440&bih=769&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=qwfKWvDuONHWgQbj64S4Bw&q=gladius+underseat&oq=gladius+underseat&gs_l=psy-ab.3...36312.38345.0.40172.9.8.0.1.1.0.115.597.7j1 .8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.355...0j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i30k1j0i24k1j0i 13k1.0.vAVCnOds_lo#imgrc=HAA-Y8ha6AADOM:

The main fuse is located just to the right of the red positive battery terminal under the translucent cover, there is a spare fuse located there too. The fuse is rated at 30A.


If a 30 amp fuse has blown it may well blow again if you replace it without finding the fault, sounds like a short circuit somewhere, maybe a cable insulation rubbed away?

[darrentwins]

I have replaced that fuse with no luck..Thank you but I think i am gonna have to try again from the beginning, but im at work till thursday now so wont get a chance till then.

[darrentwins]

i have replaced the 30amp fuse with no luck....but that's the case no instrument lights or lights or anything...Thank you

[yokohama]

Even though it's new, check the battery - it may not be holding its charge or not putting enough power out.. Always good to start with that and work outwards.
Double check both leads and the earth. Then get a multimeter and measure the charge across the terminals with the ignition off and then with the ignition on. I can't remember off the top of my head what the figures should be but if you post them up here, I'm sure someone more clued up on electrics than me can advise.

[R1ffR4ff]

One of my old contributors on another forum made a great page for anyone new to using a Multimeter to track problems,

http://www.genebitsystems.com/david/MotorcycleElectrical/index.htm

and some of the other links on the page will be useful even though they are for a different Motorcycle.


HTH :)

[NedSVS]

If the Gladius is like the SV's then the ignition switch goes to a green connector block under the tank. The main live terminal tends to overheat and only gets worse with time - so perhaps check that. My SV developed the no power intermittently problem and this was the cause - the plastic around the connection was showing signs of heat damage. Other people on the forum have reported this problem and it is common practice to remove the offending wire and connect it directly outside of the original connector (I crimped and soldered mine), but of course you should make sure it is really well insulated.

[SV650rules]

I have often used a 12 volt bulb with some wires soldered on, (up to 21 watt) - I earth the one cable and go poking around the circuit with a safety pin on the other which means you can poke the pointed end through cable insulation and check the circuit with plugs still connected, the other benefit is that the bulb actually draws current (about 1.5amps) which a multimeter does not. The voltmeter and ohmeter are such high impedance that they only pass milli-amps through cables and plugs, which in most cases will not detect a corroded joint unless it is really bad, your eye can judge the brightness of a bulb as a 10% drop in voltage means a 20% drop in light output.

[darrentwins]

Hello again and Thank you all for your response. I'm still having difficulties (it's freezing and my hands are cold) This is a pic i've just taken and wondered what the cables are to the right of battery that isn't connected to anything and the female connector just above fuse box tucked in. Don't suppose........https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3D9l966v-bCSnV2Ry1vVXRvVDJpX25qLXVKN0NmTmtXMWhj/view?usp=sharing

[darrentwins]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3D9l966v-bCSnV2Ry1vVXRvVDJpX25qLXVKN0NmTmtXMWhj/view?usp=sharing

[Bibio]

have you fitted a tail tidy?

[darrentwins]

have you fitted a tail tidy?

I haven't fitted anything....but I don't know what a tail tidy is so can't say...sorry i know i'm useless and if i could i would take it to a bike mechanic but only one i've found in my home town (Carlisle) charged me £250 for a service so thought it might be really expensive to get someone out to my house as i can't transport it...

[SV650rules]

i know i'm useless and if i could i would take it to a bike mechanic

Everyone starts off as useless but the desire to learn makes them useful. Every day in life is a school day with lessons to be learned, but some people who think they already know it all (and were miraculously born that way :rolleyes: ) miss many opportunities to learn. There will always be fresh problems arising but the more things you have messed with and investigated the more likely you are to be able to solve them.

As I said I have solved many problems with a light bulb, some cable soldered on and a pin on one end and went around sticking it through cable insulation until I found a place where bulb should have lit up but did not - no fancy meters or skill in using them needed and soldering irons are pretty cheap and always useful to have one in the toolbox.

[darrentwins]

first of all i would like to thank you all for your patience and advice. I have now got bike running. I got a 'friend of a friend' to have a look and we tested battery - correct voltage...we tested all fuses and connections - all good.
I bought a new relay/starter, fitted it and same problem....I went to a dealer who said new battery, I told him we had put a tester on it and volts were good...he told me volts can be good but no amps...I don't even know what that means but i was desperate so bought a new battery and it only bloody worked how can a battery be looking ok but not actually working?....to be honest i dont care anymore i'm back on the road and going for a little blast...thanks again everyone and stay safe...wheeeeee

[R1ffR4ff]

Batteries can show a High Voltage but be faulty inside and not capable of holding a Charge and when put under strain the current drops to below what is required to start the vehicle.This is why proper Battery testers put a load on the Battery similar to what would be drawn by the Stater motor.

HTH :)

[SV650rules]

As batteries age they lose both the ability to accept and release a charge (their 'internal resistance' gets larger which means that for a given current more voltage is lost inside the battery and less voltage available at the terminals under load), you can lengthen their useful life by keeping them well charged, but every time their charge dips below about 60% they are damaged and the damage is cumulative, and if batteries are left in a discharged state for too long they are FUBAR - depth of discharge is a key killer of lead acid batteries (they should ideally be kept in top 20% of charge all the time). Yuasa AGM batteries (absorbed glass mat) are probably the best bike battery as they produce high current for starting, will accept a charge quickly, work well at lower temperatures and are good with vibration and will not leak. They also do not mind being discharged so much as a normal 'flooded' lead acid battery.

[yokohama]

first of all i would like to thank you all for your patience and advice. I have now got bike running. I got a 'friend of a friend' to have a look and we tested battery - correct voltage...we tested all fuses and connections - all good.
I bought a new relay/starter, fitted it and same problem....I went to a dealer who said new battery, I told him we had put a tester on it and volts were good...he told me volts can be good but no amps...I don't even know what that means but i was desperate so bought a new battery and it only bloody worked how can a battery be looking ok but not actually working?....to be honest i dont care anymore i'm back on the road and going for a little blast...thanks again everyone and stay safe...wheeeeee

Errr, I think that's what I suggested in post 12 and was exactly what happened to my SV battery. It held a charge so plenty of volts but a faulty cell meant it wasn't putting out the amps.
Glad you got it working in the end though. Electrics can be really frustrating.

[R1ffR4ff]

Although Yuasa batteries are a good brand this has bothered me for a while about their so called,"AGM" batteries,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yuasa-Maintenance-Free-Battery-YTX12-BS-For-Suzuki-SV-650-U-2006/332612318338?epid=600658957&hash=item4d713d3482:g:QYsAAOSwkqFax6OH

As they say they come with an Acid pack :/


This is how I've always understood AGM batteries are constructed,

u2QwntIO4Mk

Just throwing it out there.

I've had good longevity and performance from the MotoBatt AGM batteries I've used :)


http://www.motobatt.com/FAQ-MotoBatt-Battery&p=62&b=59

[SV650rules]

Pretty much every Yuasa battery is 'dry charged' (the plates are pre-charged (formed) in large tanks and then dried and the battery is assembled with the dried plates, this means the discharge rate on the shelf is no existent and also the battery is able to be shipped anywhere by any means of transport because there is no acid contained in it, and adding the acid brings it to life in a pretty much 95% fully charged state even after 12 months in the battery shop. The acid pack is carefully measured amount of acid for each cell, just enough for the glass mat to absorb without any free acid sloshing around, the batteries are VRLA (valve regulated lead acid, the valves allow any gases produced during charging to escape only if a certain pressure is reached) which reduces electrolyte loss to basically nothing over its lifetime. truly maintenance free.

I have tried to charge these batteries after adding the acid but after a few minutes the green 'charged' light on my charger comes on.

All modern batteries (and for many, many years) have been made with ' thru' partition connections' (lead ears are welded through holes in the plastic cell partition walls), so motobat claiming that as a selling point is like a brewer claiming 'our beer is made using water'.

[R1ffR4ff]

Pretty much every Yuasa battery is 'dry charged' (the plates are pre-charged (formed) in large tanks and then dried and the battery is assembled with the dried plates, this means the discharge rate on the shelf is no existent and also the battery is able to be shipped anywhere by any means of transport because there is no acid contained in it, and adding the acid brings it to life in a pretty much 95% fully charged state even after 12 months in the battery shop. The acid pack is carefully measured amount of acid for each cell, just enough for the glass matt to absorb without any free acid sloshing around, the batteries a VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) which reduces electrolyte loss to basically nothing over its lifetime. truly maintenance free.

I have tried to charge these batteries after adding the acid but after a few minutes the green 'charged' light on my charger comes on.


Thanks for that.That explains the separate Acid mix.

Can this type still be mounted on the side like the AGM ones I have?

[SV650rules]

Thanks for that.That explains the separate Acid mix.

Can this type still be mounted on the side like the AGM ones I have?


The YTX12-BS is an AGM valve regulated battery (although for some reason it does not say AGM on the label) , see this spec sheet and click the red 'download datasheet' button, 'separator specification is AGM' -

https://www.yuasa.co.uk/ytx12-bs.html

[Craig380]

Can this type still be mounted on the side like the AGM ones I have?

Yuasa describe them as 'virtually spill-proof', and once the sealing caps are on the cells after you've put the acid in, you'd need a screwdriver and pliers to get them off again, they really do fit tightly.

In some Ducatis (like the Monster) the battery is mounted at a 30 to 40-degree angle under the tank, and that is fine but I'm not sure if you could actually use the battery laid on its side (i.e. 90 degrees from vertical), for example.

[R1ffR4ff]

Yuasa describe them as 'virtually spill-proof', and once the sealing caps are on the cells after you've put the acid in, you'd need a screwdriver and pliers to get them off again, they really do fit tightly.

In some Ducatis (like the Monster) the battery is mounted at a 30 to 40-degree angle under the tank, and that is fine but I'm not sure if you could actually use the battery laid on its side (i.e. 90 degrees from vertical), for example.

Good info.I'll stick with my Motobatt AGMs as they are a decent price and come fully charged totally maintenance free so are just basically Fit-Fire-and-Forget.
Plus they have four poles so can be fitted to bikes with a different battery lead configuration if need be.They also have a great none-use shelf life :)

[SV650rules]

All AGM batteries are very low self discharge and also where the acid in a flooded battery will stratify and sulphate the plates if left without charging AGM will not do that.