K1 starts but cuts out after a second or two.

[ejohnh]

Hi,

I haven't visited the site for ages.

My bike is a K1 650 naked with no mods. It's done 32k miles .

I dropped it in the Picos Europa a a couple or three years ago and it developed an oil leak. I managed to ride it back home where I sort of left it in the garage. I decided to 'sort' it.

It would not start.

I first examined the spark plugs which seemed to be fairly worn. I changed those. And tried to start the bike again; it started immediately but cut out after a second or so.

I checked the fuel flow from the tank to the fuel pump and from the fuel pump outlet. Fuel pumping out okay.

The bike starts as I said above, after it's been left for a while, but cuts out almost immediately and then wont start at all (for a while).

Any ideas guy?

Thanks

John

[netsurfer]

Sounds like fuel may be ok if it’s firing up. If fuel getting to carbs then I’d guess stuck float needles.

Carbs off and a rebuild should help this.

One other thought

Does the engine stop suddenly or run a little rough before stopping? Would by any chance it have been run low on oil after you dropped it?




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[ejohnh]

Thanks for the reply.

It stops as if it's just run out of petrol, with no indication of roughness.

How difficult is it to get gaskets etc for a bike of this vintage?

It did develop a small oil leak after the drop. Semi crushed the radiator as well, but that isn't leaking.

I think it must be a carb fault. Not looking forward to dismantling those :(

J







Sounds like fuel may be ok if it’s firing up. If fuel getting to carbs then I’d guess stuck float needles.

Carbs off and a rebuild should help this.

One other thought

Does the engine stop suddenly or run a little rough before stopping? Would by any chance it have been run low on oil after you dropped it?




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[ejohnh]

Thanks for the reply..

I'm coming to the same conclusion myself because the initial fire up is perfect; both pots fire for a couple of seconds, and then stop as if the petrol ran out.

J

If you left it in the garage for a while, your petrol may be stale and/or your carbs have been gunked up by the ethanol they stick in these days. You could drain the tank, add fresh petrol and try again but I suspect you will end up having to clean the carbs.

[netsurfer]

It’s surprisingly easy, it appears daunting at first glance!

I’ve got the carbs off mine (a K1) put them on and taken them off again without issue.

Once the tank and airbox is off the maze of pipes and cables looks scary, but just work through them one by one and take photos if not sure. Routing is important and that’s what caused me a bit of an issue but a few photos will avoid that for you.

Remember to plug the inlets with plastic bags or clean rags after the carbs are off as you will cause yourself 10 times the work if something drops in there.

I have a Haynes manual here so feel free to drop me a dm if you need to see it.

Cheers and good luck!




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[SV650rules]

I would try fresh petrol with a good glug of Redex added (overdose won't hurt) it is amazing how it dissolves the petrol lacquer and gunge. Redex has revived a couple of carbed bikes for me and also worked wonders on generators and lawnmowers, bringing them back from the dead.

[netsurfer]

B3C sell a product specifically for this situation called “mechanic in a bottle” I work for one of the UK distributors of the product so if you would like to try it give me a shout I will send you one over to try prior to stripping the carbs.

May just save you the hassle.






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[ejohnh]

Thanks,

I've got a Haynes Manual. I've had it since I bought the bike in 2006. It's dog eared and pretty black and greasy in places.

I was wondering what O rings or washers I would need to replace.

I guess I'll get down to it in the coming week.

Thanks,

John




It’s surprisingly easy, it appears daunting at first glance!

I’ve got the carbs off mine (a K1) put them on and taken them off again without issue.

Once the tank and airbox is off the maze of pipes and cables looks scary, but just work through them one by one and take photos if not sure. Routing is important and that’s what caused me a bit of an issue but a few photos will avoid that for you.

Remember to plug the inlets with plastic bags or clean rags after the carbs are off as you will cause yourself 10 times the work if something drops in there.

I have a Haynes manual here so feel free to drop me a dm if you need to see it.

Cheers and good luck!




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[ejohnh]

Hi,
I tried with and without choke. Similar results.

It fast idles very briefly before stopping.

No response to throttle. Maybe cuts out to quickly for throttle twist to take effect.

I think it's an hour or so before it will restart.

I have not tried it with petrol filler cap open.

Where would I get a rebuild kit?

Tanks for the advice,

J





Are you using choke?
How does it respond on choke - does it fast idle briefly before stopping.
Once it's started does it respond to throttle?
How long do you have to wait before it will restart?
Have you tried starting it with the petrol filler cap open?

Carb rebuild kits are available for the curvy. Be careful with the carb screws they tend to be quite soft and are JIS headed not Philips although they look similar. Once you get the float bowls off you'll get a better idea if it's a dirt issue.

[ejohnh]

That sounds interesting. I'd certainly like to try that before doing the strip.

If you could send me one, or tell me where I could buy one, that would be great

Thanks

J


B3C sell a product specifically for this situation called “mechanic in a bottle” I work for one of the UK distributors of the product so if you would like to try it give me a shout I will send you one over to try prior to stripping the carbs.

May just save you the hassle.






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[netsurfer]

You will need 2x Choke plunger O-rings Suzuki p/n 1327818E20 and bowl gaskets (rubber o-ring type) which will probably be in the carb repair kit, if not these are Suzuki p/n 1325833E00

Not got my service kits yet, but seems like there are loads online.

[daktulos]

Have you checked the vacuum to the petcock or fuel pump? (I'm not familiar with the K1, but it sounds like it's running from fuel in the float bowl and then getting no more, the hour could be it dripping through.

[ejohnh]

Hi,
I've started it with and without choke - no real difference.
It does fast idle briefly before stopping.
I can restart it after an hour or so.
I have not tried to restart it with the petrol filler cap open.

Just googled some carb rebuild kits - thanks.

Are you using choke?
How does it respond on choke - does it fast idle briefly before stopping.
Once it's started does it respond to throttle?
How long do you have to wait before it will restart?
Have you tried starting it with the petrol filler cap open?

Carb rebuild kits are available for the curvy. Be careful with the carb screws they tend to be quite soft and are JIS headed not Philips although they look similar. Once you get the float bowls off you'll get a better idea if it's a dirt issue.

[ejohnh]

Thanks,

Just googled some sources, :)

You will need 2x Choke plunger O-rings Suzuki p/n 1327818E20 and bowl gaskets (rubber o-ring type) which will probably be in the carb repair kit, if not these are Suzuki p/n 1325833E00

Not got my service kits yet, but seems like there are loads online.

[ejohnh]

Vacuum to tank tap and to fuel pump is okay. I had petrol pumping into a bottle while turning over the engine.
It seems like a float thing is sticking but I wouldn't thought that both would stick at the same time. It's been idle for several years so that could well be the case.

Thanks.

Have you checked the vacuum to the petcock or fuel pump? (I'm not familiar with the K1, but it sounds like it's running from fuel in the float bowl and then getting no more, the hour could be it dripping through.

[ejohnh]

Yes, I'll do all of that. A mate of mine has what he calls a sonic cleaner. How do they work?

[ejohnh]

First I'll try the Mechanic in a bottle. If that fails I'll whip the carbs off for a close look.

[Bibio]

take a long screwdriver and tap the float bowls with the handle end. this sometimes frees up the float valves.

[ejohnh]

Latest:

I tried Mechanic In a Bottle over the course of 4 days, trying to start the engine every couple of hours or so. I was hoping that with the mixture travelling through the carbs, the gunk or whatever would dissolve. Unfortunately that didn't happen so I'll send of for a couple of carb rebuild kits etc,, :( Thanks for all your advice guys, I'll let you know how I get on. :)

[ejohnh]

I haven't watched his videos but this guy either gives a comprehensive sv carb cleaning procedure or likes to talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do7B2T-kNkU (there are 6 videos)

Just been watching the vids. What a great idea. Thanks..

[ejohnh]

A few suggestions:
1) do 1 carb at a time so you have a reference, take pictures (you won't remember where the widget fits)
2) do it in clean area, ideally on a large table so when bits drop out of the carbs and roll, you'll find them.
3) an air line of some type is useful, if not essential
4) carb jets are brass, poking them roughly with a metal object can change their sizes which will introduce more problems. Some of the holes on the smaller jets are the size of smallish needles.
5) soaking the carbs overnight may help - you'll need carb cleaner, obviously.
6) some of the parts are surprisingly fragile (floats for example). Float heights are adjustable by bending (!) a tab, rough handling can also adjust them - you don't want that.
7) take your time and enjoy the learning experience, your next bike will probably be fuel injected so you'll be able to learn a whole new set of skills ;)

(worst case - there are usually sets of carbs on ebay!)

I stripped engines and carbs back when I was young. :) My first bike was a 350 Matchless trials oil leaker in 1958. I had that apart in the flat where I lived with my family in London. My mum used to go bananas at me. Can't blame her, looking back :) Those were the days of the Norton Dominator 88. Tiger 110, Ariel square 4 and many others .

THis SV is the one I bought when I went back into biking in 2006. I couldn't believe how much bikes had improved since I got rid of my AJS CSR sport twin when my first child was born in 1962. Since I bought the SV I have had a couple of others , inc a Yam FZ1, but I hung onto the SV because it was simple the most reliable. She took me all over Ireland, France and Spain over the years. It will be my last proper bike. I am thinking of getting a Yam XMAS 300 for running around. My bike touring days are probably done though. Sad thoughts eh?

[ejohnh]

I didn't mean to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, sorry. You'll have fun, I'm sure.

... at my local bike haunt I know a young man in his 80s that has attached a sidecar to his Vincent, added an electric start and rides it in the summer, in the winter he rides his Kawasaki outfit ...

Haha! First snag:

released cylinder head clamp securing rear carb but bolt head on front carb clamp is rusted too much for screwdriver to get a purchase. Any ideas on how to remove the front carb despite this? Not sure how easy it will be to saw through the clamp.

[ejohnh]

Getting at the screw is the problem really. I'll have to see what long drill bits I have. I'll try my dremel(copy) - I may be able to grind off the head if I can get at it. Hell of a design ;)

[Bibio]

for working on Jap bikes you need a JIS screwdriver as a normal philips will just cam out and chew the head. i got this https://www.onlyqualitytools.com/catalog/Vessel/MEGADORA_IMPACTA_Screwdrivers.html and it has been a life saver especially the impact when loosening (it only loosens on impact) the top carb screws. its not a full JIS screwdriver but its damned close. for most screws you only need the PH2.

[ejohnh]

Thanks Bibio, just ordered the impact driver.

I got the front carb free by levering the whole assembly up with a length of wood. The screw for the front choke cable entry is wasted. I'll try a small mole wrench on it later. I can see my having to cut the choke cable in order to get the b*gg*r off. .

[Bibio]

wait till the screwdriver arrives before taking a pair of molies to the screw. i have been amazed at what that screwdriver will take out, screws that look totally fubar have come out.

[netsurfer]

As someone mentioned in another thread here, there is a JIS screwdriver in the toolkit under the seat (if you still have one)

Might speed things up for you!

[Bibio]

the screwdriver that suzuki supply in the toolkit is like cheese, they are useless.

[ejohnh]

I dug out an old impact driver I obtained years ago. It's got assorted bits. I propped a piece of thick softwood between the Carbs and the frame and used the impact driver. screw released quite quickly! It surprised me because the head was really mashed up.

The No2 impact driver I bought yesterday has been already dispatched so that's another tool I probably won't ever use :) I'll have a garage sale before I move to a smaller place :)

Going to London for a long weekend so I'll continue the carbs saga next week :)

[ejohnh]

HI, Question:
Is the carb heater strictly necessary, because one of the cables to the front carb heater has come adrift(the one with the small spring)?

The piston needles were a bit gummy. They cleaned up okay.

[ejohnh]

Just spotted a comment from Sid Squid to the effect that the carb heaters are pointless in summer. Saved me forking out £30+ for a new one.

Where's the best place to get screws?

[Biker Biggles]

Quite right. I used to have a EU import SV with none fitted. I never noticed.

[dirtydog]

Just spotted a comment from Sid Squid to the effect that the carb heaters are pointless in summer. Saved me forking out £30+ for a new one.

Where's the best place to get screws?


TBH I found them pretty useless in winter as well