Intermittent Start

[shiftin_gear98]

Hello Tech bods, hopefully you are out there.
My issue started yesterday evening. No it wasn't or hadn't rained. When I went to leave work I turned the key lights all on hear things prime. Push start button, nothing. Turn key off, check side stand is up etc. Turn key, lights prime, push button - roars into life. Ride home.
This morning same thing, first time nothing second time, shes alive, stop for petrol starts first time.
Roll onto tonight come home. Yep same again this time I just had to push the button a couple of times.
OK so I have taken the switch apart all looked pretty good for 50000 miles. Gave it a blow with a airline a spray of GT85 all I've got. And another blow out. Same deal. Nothing first time, key off, starts. Wagwan.

What do I look at and how, remember I'm a borderline retard.

[garynortheast]

Have a look at the clutch switch Martin. Get some switch cleaner into it.

[Red ones]

Mine does the same after it's been cleaned. I put it down to an allergy.

[shiftin_gear98]

Red Ones, mine was cleaned about 4years ago.
Gary, thanks I'll start there.

[garynortheast]

Sometimes it can be down to wear on the clutch lever pivot, so that the lever no longer pulls back far enough to release the switch.

Red Ones, all of my switch gear gets treated to GT85 or WD40 and switch cleaner after a wash. Switchgear full of water tends not to work too well!

[R1ffR4ff]

Have you ever had the Large Electrical connector under the tank near the headstock apart?

Check it for corrosion.If there is corrosion clean with a very small screwdriver with a bit of 500 grit paper wrapped around it and carefully scrape the corrosion off the pins and sockets and then spray with some Switch cleaner.Then work the two halves in and out to clear the contacts.

I've done all my connectors/bulb holders this way and treated them with ACF50 to help slow down and prevent further corrosion.

[shiftin_gear98]

RiffR4ff, the green one? Yeah although a year or so ago. It was spotless. Might be worth looking again.

[R1ffR4ff]

RiffR4ff, the green one? Yeah although a year or so ago. It was spotless. Might be worth looking again.

Nice one.These connectors are often over looked.I did the lot before I put my 1999 on the road as I know most Bikers and even garages never do them.

I also took out every Fuse one at a time and checked and did them as well as I've had intermittent starts caused by crusty fuse connections/blades.

I also use ACF50 down and into my Ignition Barrel and took apart my Handlebar controls and did those as well.

[shiftin_gear98]

I had a quick look at the clutch switch - well I pulled the connector off. It wasn't corroded but was a bit gunky.
Quick blow out, thankfully compressor still had air in from last night. A scrap with a flat bladed screw driver on the contacts. GT85 and another blow out.


Started first time. Lets see what happens tonight.


Thanks for the pointer.

[R1ffR4ff]

I had a quick look at the clutch switch - well I pulled the connector off. It wasn't corroded but was a bit gunky.
Quick blow out, thankfully compressor still had air in from last night. A scrap with a flat bladed screw driver on the contacts. GT85 and another blow out.


Started first time. Lets see what happens tonight.


Thanks for the pointer.

I wouldn't use GT85 on the inside of connectors as it's none conductive.It usually gets scraped off anyway when you push the connectors together so no biggy.

Toolstation do the proper stuff for £2.50 ish,

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p81507?r=googleshopping&rr=marin&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=CjwKCAjw3cPYBRB7EiwAsrc-uSLfgN0XZDerxHDPh1c1_NQMP7-pmOKwpulVxpkgnAXRM8aiLVsZ6xoCykcQAvD_BwE



https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/800/81507.jpg

I use GT85 for loads of things and it's ok on the outside of the connectors if you don't have ACF50.I also use GT85 on my Bike Gloves and boots to re-waterproof as it's inert and doesn't damage stitching and water just beads off it.
I also use GT85 on all my Carb linkages after they had been treated with ACF50.

[shiftin_gear98]

R1ffR4ff, thanks for the link. Just order that some brake cleaner and engine additive whilst I was at it.

[R1ffR4ff]

R1ffR4ff, thanks for the link. Just order that some brake cleaner and engine additive whilst I was at it.

The only engine additive I use is Moly.I doesn't cause,"Clutch Slip".I wouldn't recommend anything else in the engine unless I had tested it on my own bikes.

[shiftin_gear98]

It had loads of good reviews - I'll test it and let you know, it can't make my engine any worse.

[shiftin_gear98]

Whoops missed out a word, "neglected" engine any worse.

[R1ffR4ff]

It had loads of good reviews - I'll test it and let you know, it can't make my engine any worse.

I've guinea-pigged lots of stuff over the years so go for it.It people don't try stuff we never know :)

If it did give problems you can do a double engine flush with some cheap oil.IIRC B&M stores are doing a gallon of 10w40 for around £12.99 which can be used as an engine flush much safer than supposed dedicated ones.

[Biker Biggles]

I wouldnt use any oil additive in the engine. It makes no difference to the carburation or ignition side of things which is nearly always where running problems are, and some additives may or may not cause other damage to clutches or seals. Why bother when just regular oil changes are completely safe and completely adequate to prevent wear.

[shiftin_gear98]

The last time it saw a mechanic about 30,000 miles ago it had some added then as he said it was a bit black in there. His departing words to me were "give a good hard ride".


Which to be fair I've been riding it like I stole it ever since, my commutes are the highlight of most working days. Apart from when I get home obviously.


The oil is changed roughly every 4000 miles give or take. As said before I doubt it can hurt, besides I've already paid for it. She's heading towards the scrap heap in the sky anyway.


Any two more hours to test if it starts again.

[SV650rules]

Liquimoly (German equivalent of molyslip) say up to 2% in wet clutch is fine, I add 60ml to SV when changing oil and absolutely no problems. I have used Molly in engine and gear box on cars for many a long year, and had no issues with seals etc ever, despite my cars doing well over 100,000 up to 190,000 miles, in fact they have been so remarkably free of problems, used no oil, and been quiet running I swear by moly. Molybdenum sulphide is well proven in industry and is also the reason CV joints last the life of the vehicle instead of regularly failing.

[Bibio]

i have said this before but it falls on deaf ears. dont use molly in your wet clutch oil. i dont care what bull manufacturers say as they are all trying to sell their products. anything that increases the "slippiness" of oil in a wet clutch sump is bad.

but hey its upto the owner what they do but i personally would never tell someone else to use molly in oil. cars are different in that they have dry clutches and separate gearboxes and then i would say yes use it as it works perfect.

[R1ffR4ff]

Liquimoly (German equivalent of molyslip) say up to 2% in wet clutch is fine, I add 60ml to SV when changing oil and absolutely no problems. I have used Molly in engine and gear box on cars for many a long year, and had no issues with seals etc ever, despite my cars doing well over 100,000 up to 190,000 miles, in fact they have been so remarkably free of problems, used no oil, and been quiet running I swear by moly. Molybdenum sulphide is well proven in industry and is also the reason CV joints last the life of the vehicle instead of regularly failing.

I've been using Moly based products as long as you.Well over 15 years on Wet-Clutch motorcycles with no Clutch slip or problems.

Also even oil makers now know of it's benefits as they now include some in their High end Motorcycle and Automotive oils.

Dealer's choice.No harm in not using it.No harm in using it and keeps my engine really smooth and quiet :)

[shiftin_gear98]

She only went and started first time. Thanks all.

Please feel free to carry on debating. If more people join in it'll be a (you all know the punchline).
It's the weekend. Go and get a pint and enjoy it.
Cheers.

[R1ffR4ff]

She only went and started first time. Thanks all.

Please feel free to carry on debating. If more people join in it'll be a (you all know the punchline).
It's the weekend. Go and get a pint and enjoy it.
Cheers.


:drink::drink::drink:

[shiftin_gear98]

One year later and same **** different year.
I spent all evening trying not to swear at my bike. God I hate the stater switch. I hate putting it back together more than I hate that it doesn't do anything at the moment.

Org Master Electricians

I turn the key, all lights come on, she primes etc. Pull clutch in, push button - all that happens is my lights dim.
I completely took the stater switch apart - I really wish I hadn't as it was spotless and a git to get back together. The black connector was also spotless (as too was the green connector). Both got a dosing of contact cleaner for good measure.
The contact on the starter motor was a little corroded so that got cleaned up and sprayed.
Still nothing but dimmed lights.
I checked every fuse - all spotless and intact. I was staring at the starter solenoid when I remembered about bridging the terminals with a screwdriver. She started straight away!

OK so the starter motor is fine. What do I check now - is it the actual wiring which disappears into the loom shorting or is it the starter solenoid - again this looked spotless - apart from the two black spots on the contacts! Or is it something else - clutch switch checked - again spotless, and sprayed.

Please bear in mind I'm an electrical retard - I own a multimeter but have no idea what any of the settings really do.

I then spent 45 mins staring at autotrader! Triple - Z1000 - Turno - Brutale

[Othen]

It sounds like the starter solenoid has failed.


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[aesmith]

Do the lights dim, or switch right off? If they dim then something's drawing current, but some SVs (both of mine) have an actual switch that turns the headlights off when the button's pressed.

Regarding the solenoid, can you trace the wire that feeds it from the starter button, see whether that gets 12V when the button's pressed?

[garynortheast]

That sounds to me like a failed starter relay Martin. Might be worth spending the £12 - £15 for a new one. They only take a few minutes to change; unplug and unclip the old one and replace it with the new one.

Mine went last year up in Scotland, M&P sent me a new one up to the holiday place we were staying for the following day. Ten minutes later and I was up and running again.

[SV650rules]

+1 for starter relay....

[Othen]

That makes 3 votes for the starter solenoid. It is a cheap and easy thing to replace...


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[shiftin_gear98]

New starter, sounds like a plan then. Mine does look box fresh, but it might be a good place to start.

The sodding thing has started just now when I went to see if the lights dimmed or turned off.
I stopped and started it 4 times. Fired up no hesitation at all. I hate electrics.

Yesterday nothing, this morning nothing. Now it's like nothing ever happened.

[Othen]

New starter, sounds like a plan then. Mine does look box fresh, but it might be a good place to start.

The sodding thing has started just now when I went to see if the lights dimmed or turned off.
I stopped and started it 4 times. Fired up no hesitation at all. I hate electrics.

Yesterday nothing, this morning nothing. Now it's like nothing ever happened.



... starter solenoid, not starter (£10 part as opposed to £100 part)!
This one should do:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 192901314533
It doesn’t really matter whether it looks new or not. It would be a good idea to check the condition of battery first though, a battery that is not holding charge can make the relay look as though it is misbehaving.


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[shiftin_gear98]

My typing is rubbish, I often shorte thin just because I'm laz

Thanks thouhg.

My speelings pretty bad too. ;)

[garynortheast]

... starter solenoid, not starter (£10 part as opposed to £100 part)!
This one should do:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 192901314533


I really would not be wanting to buy that particular example. While I have a number of well made mechanical items from Chinese manufacturers on my bike, electrical components bought cheaply on ebay are a different matter.

Try this from Wemoto (https://www.wemoto.com/bikes/suzuki/sv_650_sak7/07/picture/starter_solenoid___relay). It's more expensive but it's from a reputable supplier.

[SV650rules]

If battery is failing it can make starter solenoid chatter, it goes like this....



solenoid closes and puts power to starter motor.
starter motor draws power and system voltage drops
the drop in voltage causes solenoid to drop out
solenoid drops out and takes power off the starter
the system voltage rises
the rise in voltage allows the solenoid to pull in again...

starts again at 1. and continues until you take your thumb off starter button LOL

[Biker Biggles]

Before spending any money Id check all the connections on top of the obvious ones you have already done. These include the battery terminals and the frame and engine earths as well as the block connecters. Then buy a new solenoid

[Othen]

If battery is failing it can make starter solenoid chatter, it goes like this....



solenoid closes and puts power to starter motor.
starter motor draws power and system voltage drops
the drop in voltage causes solenoid to drop out
solenoid drops out and takes power off the starter
the system voltage rises
the rise in voltage allows the solenoid to pull in again...

starts again at 1. and continues until you take your thumb off starter button LOL



As above, the OP should check the battery is holding charge first.


For OP:
Just set the multimeter to a fairly low DC volts scale (there is normally one around 20V). With the ignition off test the voltage across the battery terminals, it should be 12.6v. If it is less than that the battery is not holding charge (and that will probably be causing the problem).


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[Othen]

I really would not be wanting to buy that particular example. While I have a number of well made mechanical items from Chinese manufacturers on my bike, electrical components bought cheaply on ebay are a different matter.



Try this from Wemoto (https://www.wemoto.com/bikes/suzuki/sv_650_sak7/07/picture/starter_solenoid___relay). It's more expensive but it's from a reputable supplier.



I have no view on what the OP should spend his money on. One is a £10 part, the other is £30... I know which one I would fit :-)


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[garynortheast]

As I said, I have a number of well made Chinese mechanical components on my very well used SV. I have in the past made the mistake of thinking that the same quality extends to imported/ebay electrical bits. I invariably end up spending a second time to replace the poor quality and occasionally downright dangerous electrical bits from sellers such as the one to which you linked.

[Othen]

My typing is rubbish, I often shorte thin just because I'm laz

Thanks thouhg.

My speelings pretty bad too. ;)



Did you find the problem and fix the bike?


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[Toooldtodie]

How you doing mate?
Found that my clutch lever has worn enough so that the switch only engages when the lever is angled upwards slightly... just changes my starting procedure subtley! But changing the switch did nothing, obviously.

[Othen]

How you doing mate?
Found that my clutch lever has worn enough so that the switch only engages when the lever is angled upwards slightly... just changes my starting procedure subtley! But changing the switch did nothing, obviously.



Well, fancy that, how did you diagnose the problem I wonder? Well done.
I got rid of the clutch switch, I soldered the two wires together so it is bypassed, I’m much happier having less things to go wrong than more.
:-)


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[Toooldtodie]

Er, I'm a lazy, technically incompetent, tight @rse and so jst wiggled it until the starter kicked in.
Sorry to disappoint..


It does upset everyone else who tries to start it and can't, recovery drivers, MoT testers.. and I step in like God!!

[Othen]

Er, I'm a lazy, technically incompetent, tight @rse and so jst wiggled it until the starter kicked in.
Sorry to disappoint..



:-) I was hoping for a highly technical note describing the procedure to identify that fault that the forum could keep in its technical library.


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[Toooldtodie]

I can only apologise again!
But it does work...

[DarrenSV650S]

Is it an aftermarket lever?

[Toooldtodie]

Is it an aftermarket lever?


Yes. Replaced after my slam dunk on a roundabout by a car driver who didn't look.

[DarrenSV650S]

Maybe the dunk opened up the mount slightly, giving the lever more play?

[Toooldtodie]

Maybe the dunk opened up the mount slightly, giving the lever more play?


That would make sense. Yes.


It also loosened the disc bobbins on the front discs too as pointed out by a very knowledgeable mechanic.

[shiftin_gear98]

It's working for now. I completely took the clutch switch apart, gave everything a clean and quickly sanded the contacts - they didn't look too bad to start with but hey ho. Squirted everything with contact cleaner, blew it out.
And found out that as Toooldtodie suggested following a similar technical checklist of diagnosis - lots of random wiggling - that my clutch lever is worn too. When I removed the lever to look, the bolt hole is more oval than round. It's the original lever.
Fix - If I lift it slightly when I squeeze it. Bingo. 99% of the time it's starting first time.

It'll do for now, if it turns into too much of a pain in the harris I'll remove it.
As the fork is still leaking and the tyres are on the limit waiting for payday, it's the least of my worries for now.
As always thanks for your input peeps.

[Othen]

It's working for now. I completely took the clutch switch apart, gave everything a clean and quickly sanded the contacts - they didn't look too bad to start with but hey ho. Squirted everything with contact cleaner, blew it out.
And found out that as Toooldtodie suggested following a similar technical checklist of diagnosis - lots of random wiggling - that my clutch lever is worn too. When I removed the lever to look, the bolt hole is more oval than round. It's the original lever.
Fix - If I lift it slightly when I squeeze it. Bingo. 99% of the time it's starting first time.

It'll do for now, if it turns into too much of a pain in the harris I'll remove it.
As the fork is still leaking and the tyres are on the limit waiting for payday, it's the least of my worries for now.
As always thanks for your input peeps.



Well,fancy that happening to both you and toooldtodie, but good that you have found the problem and solved it at no cost.

I suspect my K6 had suffered something similar - the original owner had shorted out the switch with a really scruffy 13A crimp connector (crimped with a pair of pliers). I’ve soldered the wires and sealed them with some heat shrink so it is much neater, but I’m still happier without the switch (I’ll decide when the bike starts - I don’t want it telling me).


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[Heorot]

I have a spare adjustable Chinese clutch lever for a 1999 to 2009 sv650 or sv650S these currently retail at £16.88 free postage from China. Mine is bright blues anodised aluminium milled from a solid billet. I

I had a pair of these on the bike when I dropped it and broke the brake lever. I got a new set in silver and the blue clutch lever became a spare.

You can have it for £7 posted. PM me with you details if interested.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Long-Brake-Clutch-Levers-for-Suzuki-SV650-SV650S-1999-2000-2001-2002-2003-2009/232247661670?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SI M%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3Dedc679c 6a9f242328f24c2601321953d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2% 26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D303088989720%26itm%3D23224766167 0&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851