Finally, a reason to buy a Harley

[Seeker]

https://rideapart.com/articles/trump-harley-davidson-boycot-tweet

If I had the money, I'd buy one to spite him (yes, it's petty, childish, stupid but these are the ugly feelings that man releases within me). Rant over (sorry, for sinking to his level).

I've put this here instead of bike related since it's political.

[garynortheast]

^:smt023

[Tom_the_great]

Only if they get made in Britan !! ;)

[Bibio]

there is never a reason to by a Harley. over priced outdated junk.

who cares what Trump says.. dont people get it yet.

[littleoldman2]

Bibs, that's because you think they are bought as a motorbike at which they are rather poor, but they are bought as part of a life style choice which is different altogether.

As for Trump, it was the yanks choice, that's democracy for you.

[Talking Heads]

that's democracy for you.


American democracy is the best democracy money can buy.


Trump's an **** and Harleys are ****.
Nothing to see here, move along please...

[zsv650s]

Corr no thanks at least if we want to be patriotic over here we get to have a nice bike aka a triumph ��

[Talking Heads]

William Harley was of English descent and the three Davidsons were of Scottish descent.
Triumph was founded by Siegfried Bettman, a German.

[zsv650s]

Triumph is in hinckley bit more local than Milwaukee:smt081 and on a side note 100% nothing against Harley Davidson it's got a following and they love em can't argue with that.

[Red ones]

Triumph is in hinckley bit more local than Milwaukee:smt081 and on a side note 100% nothing against Harley Davidson it's got a following and they love em can't argue with that.



HD also manufacture in Brazil and India. It's how they get round trade tariffs (The Donald shot himself in the foot with trade tariffs to protect manufacturing as HD were hit by Europe in retaliation so they transfered to Brazil and India for the foreign market)

[Talking Heads]

Triumph is a bit more in Thailand than Hinkley.......

[kaivalagi]

There's never a reason to buy a Harley...their design, tech and performance all suck....I mean look what's next on the horizon...what a joke: https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/pan-america.html

http://www.advpulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Harley-Davidson-pan-america-1260-adventure-motorcycle-a.jpg

Trump and Harley belong together lol

[kaivalagi]

Of course if there was no other choice it would be an option but gladly there are other much better options.

Each to their own for sure but if Harley went down the pan thanks to Trump it would be a better result to me, Trump would have a big backlash and a lot of his supporters who love Harley would turn against him, and we would be rid of a crap motorcycle brand where other's can make up the difference for :)

[BanannaMan]

Trump comrades should get rid of their Harleys immediately
and buy Urals in support of mother Russia.
I mean, there are good people on both sides, right?



I must admit I have always loathed Harley Davidson's.
They are junk and the only thing dumber than paying that much for a piece of crap motorcycle is their stupid lifestyle.
Wannabe bad a**es.

But all that being said, when it's Trump vs HD, yes if I could afford it, I would buy one just to keep them in business.
No matter how unreliable, they are like that totally uncouth relative everyone has.
You don't really want to associate with them but they are still family. LOL



Most Harley riders are Trump supporters so we'll see how that plays out in the Nov. elections.

[BanannaMan]

As for Trump, it was the yanks choice, that's democracy for you.




And Teresa May is your mum too! :p

Walks away muttering,
Not my damn choice!
;)

[garynortheast]

And Teresa May is your mum too! :p

Walks away muttering,
Not my damn choice!
;)

With you there Bill.

Bloody Tories. Not in my name.

[Talking Heads]

They had an apparently endless supply of RUBs (rich urban bikers) to buy their product which was very successfully and profitably marketed.


Harley Davidson only remain in existence because of multiple government bailouts.
As recently as 2009 they received billions of dollars from the public purse.

[SV650rules]

Harley Davidson only remain in existence because of multiple government bailouts.
As recently as 2009 they received billions of dollars from the public purse.

So Harley Davidson is the British Leyland (aka Austin Rover) of the bike world, we all know how that ended up .......... not to mention the legendary superb quality of BL vehicles and the efficiency of their business.

[timwilky]

So Harley Davidson is the British Leyland (aka Austin Rover) of the bike world, we all know how that ended up .......... not to mention the legendary superb quality of BL vehicles and the efficiency of their business.




Careful there or you will annoy me. British Leyland was a government invention where the successful Leyland Motors were forced to acquire British Motor Holdings who sucked every penny out of Leyland, had atrocious industrial relations and killed off a once great company.


I was proud to be a research Engineer at Motors.

[SV650rules]

Careful there or you will annoy me. British Leyland was a government invention where the successful Leyland Motors were forced to acquire British Motor Holdings who sucked every penny out of Leyland, had atrocious industrial relations and killed off a once great company.


I was proud to be a research Engineer at Motors.


I know that Leyland were ruined by the government interference (what's new) and that it was their forced pairing with the disfunctional car companies that caused massive problems. I have been to the Leyland museum (in Leyland, Lancashire of all places ;) and was very impressed), there are some truly advanced ideas on show, including a very streamlined tractor unit powered by a gas turbine engine.

I have never been to the Milwaukee Tractor Company factory though, although I have been close to it - but never felt the urge to make a detour and visit.

[Talking Heads]

One thing you cannot fault Harley on is the success of their marketing machine


Why not?
The marketing is a smokescreen for the fact that the product is sub-standard over-priced crap.
Harley Davidson are stuck in a rut of their own making.
Adapt or die.

(unless a protectionist government bails you out multiple times)

[Talking Heads]

I am surprised at the depth of the vehemence against Harley.


You shouldn't be.
This site is pitched at enthusiasts of a bike which is the direct polar opposite of a Harley.

[Talking Heads]

Would I buy a Harley?


Yes, but only for use as a stationary ornament.

[Bibio]

South Park got it right.. now every time i see a bunch of harley riders i smile and think "fags". now with the statement of mr tango i'm also thinking another South Park episode "they took our jobs"..

so my mind is now thinking about harley "fags", riding around shouting "they took our jobs".

yes i have a weird and twisted mind.

[Bibio]

technically the harley v twin should be one of the most well balanced v twin engines out there due to the forked big end conrod configuration which allows for a true in line v twin. harley cant even get that right and instead its one of the worst twin engines out there for vibration. harley are your typical american junk that live on "nostalgia" and a thriving aftermarket network that is needed to rectify the original piece of junk.

FFS they even designed tv shows to get people interested in the declining market of "choppers" to keep the industry from collapsing as most sensible people are turning Japanese (see what i did there).

[garynortheast]

FFS they even designed tv shows to get people interested in the declining market of "choppers" to keep the industry from collapsing as most sensible people are turning Japanese (see what i did there).

Careful Bibs or they'll all be having a fit of the Vapors!
(https://youtu.be/IWWwM2wwMww)

[Talking Heads]

Well, if they can make a large profit from (in your words) "sub-standard, over priced crap" it follows that their marketing machine must be good. ;)



The marketing machine is at fault for allowing Harley Davidson to continue selling crap motorcycles, thereby limiting their market, which is why they need such a herculanean marketing effort.
It goes round and round in a vicious circle.


There are more people who won't ever buy a Harley than will.
Its these people Harley need to be building new products to appeal to.
Street Rod you say?
Err... no. Just no.

[Talking Heads]

I am not sure you understand the purpose of sales and marketing, it is not there to improve the product - they want to push product out of the door as quickly and cheaply as possible to maximise profit.


Its really simple.
The marketing effort enables them to turn a profit selling crap.
So because they are still able to succeed by selling crap there is no incentive to improve the product.
What would have happened if Harley had been allowed to go to the wall?


Did John Bloor start off the Triumph renaissance by building the same old rubbish that sent Meriden down the pan?
Park a 2018 Sportster next to a 2018 Street Twin and compare the two.
Night and day.
Triumph still use brand hype and marketing, but unlike Harley they don't let it prevent them from building a decent product.

[Talking Heads]

Triumph are doing well with their bikes but in 2017 they sold 63304 bikes whereas Harley sold 242800 and their bikes cost more. Harley are excellent at selling whatever you, I or anyone else think about their bikes.


in 2017 Triumph increased global sales by 11%
Harley saw a reduction of 6.7%


...and I'm done.


Are you sure about that?

[ophic]

I'd buy one :smt026

[zsv650s]

End of the day I am proud of what triumph have achieved and how they changed how people perceived Brit bikes as dead and buried I'm sure the yanks feel the same way to Harley.

[ophic]

Has HD lost market share to Triumph? Many modern trumpets are aimed squarely at the US market.

[Heorot]

According to the Wiki entry for the Rocket III, it has struggled to gain market share in the US because of the ultra conservatism of Harley buyers despite being a better all round bike.

It will certainly go round corners well as I found to my cost when I was trying to keep up with Kaivalagi on a ride out.

[zsv650s]

Haven't triumph made the thunderbird to address the rocket 3 not taking off seems a way better prospect than any Harley to me.

[kaivalagi]

According to the Wiki entry for the Rocket III, it has struggled to gain market share in the US because of the ultra conservatism of Harley buyers despite being a better all round bike.

It will certainly go round corners well as I found to my cost when I was trying to keep up with Kaivalagi on a ride out.Haha, just traded it in for a GSX though, just because...

Having the bike 5 yrs I've met and chatted online with a fair few "rocketeers", the rocket 3 has a devoted following and they're all eagerly waiting to see what Triumph might bring out as a replacement as the rocket is no longer made (I blame euro 4/5 versus a 2.3l engine)

It's true that Harley somehow manage to retain good market share through lifestyle choice more than anything (even if it's declined a bit recently), but I think Triumph are starting to gain a lifestyle following in the US too...

You should see the carpenter racing mods available over there! 240hp normally aspirated, well over 300hp with super chargers etc etc...they love their drag strips...

[Talking Heads]

Drag strips, is that like some kind of transvestite burlesque performance...?

[kaivalagi]

Drag strips, is that like some kind of transvestite burlesque performance...?Haha, not sure the trump crowd would approve of that notion, maybe some NO2 would convince them though...

[SV650rules]

Do latest HD models meet Euro 4 emissions and do latest Harleys have ABS which is now required in EU. Getting emissions down in large engines must be a challenge - is that why Triumph stopped making Rocket 3 ?

[Talking Heads]

Re HD abs and Euro4, yes and yes.

[kaivalagi]

Getting emissions down in large engines must be a challenge - is that why Triumph stopped making Rocket 3 ?

I've not heard any legitimate explanation.

I think it was likely a combination of limited sales as it's a niche bike and the challenges and costs associated with design changes to meet euro 4 and 5 going forwards.

[zsv650s]

The rocket was a hard sell to be fair mahoosive engine cruiser not a v-twin expensive I'm surprised they built it at all if I'm honest I'd have one over a Harley any day of the week.:cool:

[ophic]

The rocket was a hard sell to be fair mahoosive engine cruiser not a v-twin expensive I'm surprised they built it at all if I'm honest I'd have one over a Harley any day of the week.:cool:
Totally agree but the engine would only fit in a cruiser sized bike, but it wasn't a cruiser engine. It was far too smooth and far too eager - not particularly happy at just cruising.

[kaivalagi]

Yeah, it's no cruiser really...very hard to just cruise...there are some great modifications out there taking the bike into a more street fighter style (albeit with quite a bit more weight)

Palatina do nice conversions, but the better stuff are one offs, an example:

https://youtu.be/22V7-JARXWo

[littleoldman2]

Never fancied the Rocket, just to big for little me. The Thunderbird has always caught my eye, I know not why as I'm not a cruiser fan yet.

[ophic]

Nice vid and it's not a bad looking bike. The problem with the Rocket III is that whatever you do to it, it still looks like a Rocket III.

I like the Thunderbird as well, but if I ever bought something like that, I'd probably wish I'd bought the Rocket.

[kaivalagi]

I like the Thunderbird as well, but if I ever bought something like that, I'd probably wish I'd bought the Rocket.

Yeah, glad I had the rocket for 5 yrs, was an experience, something I'll never forget. I don't think any other cruiser style bike would be right after it... I liked the victory hammer s when I tried that but the forward controls were toooo much.

I'm happy with the gsxs-s1000f I traded the rocket in for though....loved my first days ride on it today :) I'll be happy once the first service it out of the way.