View Full Version : another Darwin award candidate
I don't know whether you have been following the (USA) NFL debacle. In a nutshell - some players have been kneeling during their National Anthem to protest against so many black people being shot by the police.
The "face" of this protest is Colin Kaepernick and now Nike have now chosen him to represent them as a sporting hero in their adverts.
In protest, a few Nike owning individuals have protested by burning their shoes (apparently forgetting that they have already paid Nike). This guy in the pics was so incensed he forgot to take them off before setting them alight.
https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2018/09/04/donald-trump-supporter-burn-nike-shoes-made-unfortunate-schoolboy-error/
I'm beginning to think climate change has a side effect of making people more stupid, or maybe cell phones do cause brain disease?
kaivalagi
05-09-18, 09:10 AM
It definitely explains how trump got so many votes...
i cant stand all this "i'm black i deserve special treatment" pish. i dont give two spots on a teens face what colour you are, you should not be using it as a "weapon" against other human beings.
why do so many coloured people get shot by police in America... its not the colour or race its about uneducated police having guns.. simples. same is true for the public having guns. i really dont understand "gun culture". if you need a gun to "protect yourself" then your a fekin pussy. same goes for those that threaten people by using guns.
johnnyrod
05-09-18, 11:45 AM
That's what's called blind obedience. None of us should be so closed-minded to think that what is already in place is automatically acceptable.
Bibs not sure I agree, after all, if it were just a problem of uneducated police, they'd be shooting folk in the same proportions as their colour/demographic/whatever. The western world still has a problem where being white and/or a man is seen as, to some extent, superior. Maybe it's because that's where most of the money is so self-perpetuating.
For the most part I agree with you but then stories like this next one leave me conflicted:
https://rideapart.com/articles/motorcycle-road-rage-shooting-tacoma-washington
We don't have a written constitution in the UK but in the US, from an early age, children are taught to respect, obey and have total trust in their Constitution. It's hard for an outsider to understand the depth of commitment Americans have to their Constitution which is why the 2nd Amendment (the right to bear arms) causes such controversy: people are being killed unnecessarily (which nobody wants) but the Constitution protects gun ownership (and it's sacrosanct).
we get road rage over here where women are involved... do they carry guns.. no. as the police are mostly a phone call away.
only reason guns are legal in America is that there is money to be made.. plain simple truth of it. without selling weapons America would be a third world country. there is no reason the have a gun in a city or large town..... ever.
as we all know America's welfare/healthcare system is one of the worst for a western country. America has a high population of coloured people of which a large population is unemployed... you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work out why a lot of coloured people get shot in America. Same goes for any colour of skin if your unemployed.. you need to eat, if you cant make money you turn to crime.
BTW its happening in the UK with an upsurge in gun crime being reported.
if there were no guns then nobody could get shot... if there were no weapons there would be no wars... people are greedy, they want what others have. some people will kill others to have what they want.
keith_d
05-09-18, 03:04 PM
Hmm, if only these issues were as simple as politicians and campaigners paint them.
America has a cultural attachment to guns for historical reasons. We can't fix that in any sensible timescale. Pretty much any law abiding American can have one or more guns and lots of them do.
So if you're a (violent) criminal the first thing you're going to need is a gun to defend yourself from other criminals and/or threaten law abiding folks. If the police try to stop you, there's a fair chance you're going have that gun and use it.
This results in the police being hyper-sensitive to people reaching for what might be a gun. Given the number of officers who get shot on duty (about 1 death per week in 2018 ) you can understand why they might be that way.
There appears to be a link between violent crime and poverty, and in the US there's still a lot of black poverty. 25% black people are poor vs 10% white (2010 figures). This is a national average and in some areas it's much worse. So you can see why police officers might be more inclined to see a black person as a possible criminal, and therefore a potential threat.
So combine the hair trigger reaction of officers who are in real danger of being shot with the assumption that black people are more likely to be criminals and you're going to see a disproportionate number of innocent black casualties.
Black lives do matter, but I don't see any chance of it getting better without addressing the underlying issues. Kneeling for the national anthem, or burning your Nike trainers is irrelevant.
Just my thoughts,
Keith.
as always k_d writes it a bit better than me :-)
Littlepeahead
05-09-18, 04:24 PM
They should not only have the right to bear arms but also the right to arm bears. No picnic'er would be safe in America then.
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
maviczap
05-09-18, 07:05 PM
They should not only have the right to bear arms but also the right to arm bears. No picnic'er would be safe in America then.
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
:smt038 :smt038 :smt038
Thanks for lightening the mood :-)
Talking Heads
05-09-18, 09:33 PM
i cant stand all this "i'm black i deserve special treatment" pish. i dont give two spots on a teens face what colour you are, you should not be using it as a "weapon" against other human beings.
why do so many coloured people get shot by police in America... its not the colour or race its about uneducated police having guns.. simples. same is true for the public having guns. i really dont understand "gun culture". if you need a gun to "protect yourself" then your a fekin pussy. same goes for those that threaten people by using guns.
I can recommend watching the Netflix documentary 13th.
It might give you a better understanding of the reality of life in America.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5895028/
Talking Heads
05-09-18, 09:38 PM
The whole story is a complete fake anyway.
The guy didn't get injured at all, the burnt feet picture was copied from elsewhere.
What we have here is one moron trying to persuade other morons (no shortage in the USA) to set fire to their shoes while wearing them.
I call that ****ing criminal.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nike-shoes-boycott-burn/
BanannaMan
08-09-18, 05:26 PM
You're all expecting to make some sense of Americans but some 90% or more of the population are idiots who don't care if what they are doing or saying makes any sense at all.
Half of those are Trump supporters who don't consider facts as part of the equation for making decisions, choosing instead 'what they believe ' to be more important even when facts prove their beliefs wrong.
Red ones
08-09-18, 06:37 PM
You understand Brexit too!
You're all expecting to make some sense of Americans but some 90% or more of the population are idiots who don't care if what they are doing or saying makes any sense at all.
Half of those are Trump supporters who don't consider facts as part of the equation for making decisions, choosing instead 'what they believe ' to be more important even when facts prove their beliefs wrong.
You understand Brexit too!
:smt040 that made me giggle.
garynortheast
08-09-18, 08:32 PM
You're all expecting to make some sense of Americans but some 90% or more of the population are idiots who don't care if what they are doing or saying makes any sense at all.
Half of those are Trump supporters who don't consider facts as part of the equation for making decisions, choosing instead 'what they believe ' to be more important even when facts prove their beliefs wrong.
You understand Brexit too!
:smt040 that made me giggle.
Haha! Made me chuckle too despite the underlying seriousness and validity of the point being made.
SV650rules
09-09-18, 11:37 AM
Most higher tech white collar crime (fraud etc) carried out by whites, most drug and street crime probably by blacks. You don't normally get shot by police for white collar crime.....
Simples........
garynortheast
09-09-18, 12:45 PM
Most higher tech white collar crime (fraud etc) carried out by whites, most drug and street crime probably by blacks. You don't normally get shot by police for white collar crime.....
Simples........
"Probably" That's something of an assumption there. I hope you can provide serious, impartial, and statistical evidence to back up that claim.
I contend that we are where we are with stuff like this in a large part because of assumptions like this.
Red ones
09-09-18, 12:52 PM
Most higher tech white collar crime (fraud etc) carried out by whites, most drug and street crime probably by blacks. You don't normally get shot by police for white collar crime.....
Simples........
What is your reference for this?
Wikipedia is not a reliable source, nor are extremist group websites.
What are the crimes for which people are incarcerated? What is the age profile? What is the general population profile? And if you are talking about the USA can you explain why it has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world?
Don't spout a "black people commit violent and drug crimes, white people don't" line without expecting to be shouted down and shown up to be a racist bigot.
punyXpress
09-09-18, 01:55 PM
Most higher tech white collar crime (fraud etc) carried out by whites, most drug and street crime probably by blacks. You don't normally get shot by police for white collar crime.....
Simples........
Good & appropriate sig on this post
Ferquit
Talking Heads
09-09-18, 01:57 PM
<snip> talking about the USA can you explain why it has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world? <snip>
Because the "justice system" in the USA is run as a private industry.
People are incarcerated in order to provide slave labour for big business.
95% of prison inmates in the USA have never been to trial.
Only the rich elite has access to justice, because only they can afford it.
littleoldman2
09-09-18, 02:03 PM
95% of prison inmates in the USA have never been to trial.
That seems unbelievable
Most higher tech white collar crime (fraud etc) carried out by whites, most drug and street crime probably by blacks. You don't normally get shot by police for white collar crime.....
Simples........
i can see the logic in this but i would say it depends on the state or region. there will be more crime by black people in an area with high concentration of black people.. its simple maths.
its when it comes to equal mixed areas the likelihood of an UNEMPLOYED person will commit a crime be they black or white.
you also have to remember the 3 times rule, if you commit a crime no matter how trivial and it is more than three times its an automatic jail sentence in America unless your lawyer is very very good.
My pet hates are the words racist and terrorist. notice how they both have "ist" at the end. if you think about it long and hard you might just realise who uses the words most.
in the UK we never used the word racist until coloured people stared living here. before that we were racist to each other but there was no name for it. so a name was made up to distinguish the difference. why should someone get upset about someone else reminding them of the colour of their skin. i'm white, Scottish and proud of it so why should a coloured person not feel the same.
i'll not even go there with "terrorist".
i cant be feked listening to a black person moan on and on about how their ancestors were slaves... fekin get over it, your not one now and your not the only ones that were slaves..
Red ones
09-09-18, 03:59 PM
That seems unbelievable
The International Centre for Prison Studies believe it to be around 20%
If you claim something at least back it up.
A fair proportion of that figure are those who can't meet bail
Talking Heads
09-09-18, 05:27 PM
That seems unbelievable
The stat I referred to was for inmates serving sentences.
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/annual-reports-and-sourcebooks/2016/FigureC.pdf
source: https://www.ussc.gov/research/sourcebook-2016
https://www.fairtrials.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Report-The-Disappearing-Trial.pdf
source: https://www.fairtrials.org/campaign/disappearing-trial
If you claim something at least back it up.
So where's your links then...? :confused:
Talking Heads
09-09-18, 05:29 PM
The scale of the USA justice system problem is something I became aware of by watching the documentary 13th on Netflix.
I've mentioned this film on here a few times, I can't recommend this film highly enough, it is essential viewing.
littleoldman2
09-09-18, 05:46 PM
The stat I referred to was for inmates serving sentences.
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/annual-reports-and-sourcebooks/2016/FigureC.pdf
source: https://www.ussc.gov/research/sourcebook-2016
https://www.fairtrials.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Report-The-Disappearing-Trial.pdf
source: https://www.fairtrials.org/campaign/disappearing-trial
So where's your links then...? :confused:
So they had a trial but plead guilty so went straight to sentencing ?.
there is a large population of inmates in the UK who have never been to trial. they went up in front of the judge who sent them down.
you would have to ask BanannaMan about this but i'm sure that if your caught a third time there is no trial as the judge either finds you guilty or not.
there are two different levels of prosecution. a trial by jury and a bench trial. every single person has a bench trial but not everyone has a trial by jury.
SV650rules
09-09-18, 06:16 PM
According to US Dept of Justice figures released in 2015
52% of violent crime committed by the 13% of population that are of black African origin.
In crime involving black and white blacks were aggressors 85% of the time.
In crime involving black and hispanic blacks were aggressors 82% of the time.
Black African Americans are massively disproportionately appearing in violent crime stats, but in these enlightened times there is more and more pressure from swivel eyed dogmatic lefties and liberals to stop criminals being identified by ethnicity so in future crime stats will be politically correct and meaningless.
Talking Heads
09-09-18, 06:20 PM
So they had a trial but plead guilty so went straight to sentencing ?.
There is only a trial if a not guilty plea is entered.
Red ones
09-09-18, 07:42 PM
The stat I referred to was for inmates serving sentences.
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/annual-reports-and-sourcebooks/2016/FigureC.pdf
source: https://www.ussc.gov/research/sourcebook-2016
https://www.fairtrials.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Report-The-Disappearing-Trial.pdf
source: https://www.fairtrials.org/campaign/disappearing-trial
So where's your links then...? :confused:
I actually did reference the source I quoted. The link is here http://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/downloads/world_pre-trial_imprisonment_list_2nd_edition_1.pdf
Another interesting read is https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5106500/#!po=26.0563 which goes some way to explain a PROPORTIONATE level of prison population by minority groups.
When quoting prisoners without trial it is a little misleading to include those who pleaded guilty. The alternative is to have someone plead guilty but then still go through the trial to prove guilt. That's a waste of time and money. You also have to remember that figure includes plea bargains. So the low trial rate reflects only those who pleaded innocent and then were found guilty. The concerning figure is that of people in prison awaiting trial.
The most shocking statistic to look at is the number of people in prison awaiting trial per 100,000 of the national population.
Red ones
09-09-18, 08:03 PM
Black African Americans are massively disproportionately appearing in violent crime stats, but in these enlightened times there is more and more pressure from swivel eyed dogmatic lefties and liberals to stop criminals being identified by ethnicity so in future crime stats will be politically correct and meaningless.
You miss the context in contemporary America.
It was just 50 years ago that race riots were rife and MLK was killed. Racial hatred still exists and is overt - I've heard of close family members verbally, fortunately not physically, abused in the street on grounds of race. There are all to frequent tales of police brutality towards African-Americans - just last week a police officer shot and killed a black man who was sitting in his own flat, the officer claimed she was confused and thought she was in her own flat?!? But the list of cases is long and well documented. Just one list of cases is here https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/03/29/police-killings-black-men-us-and-what-happened-officers/469467002/
Articles such as this one https://www.vox.com/cards/police-brutality-shootings-us/us-police-racism only highlight part of the issue.
But to dismiss the whole issue as political correctness driven by "swivel eyes" is rather like denying institutional racism in the Metropolitan Police at the time of the Stephen Lawrence case.
SV650rules
10-09-18, 03:21 PM
You can make all the excuses you like, but it is obvious that African Americans are killing far more members of all other racial groups ( including Hispanics and other blacks ) than they should be. If you want to stop other people picking on you the best thing to do is make sure they know you mean them no harm, take the moral high ground. If you are a minority group in a country (13% of population) it is obvious that violence will get you nowhere, it will only get you targeted as trouble makers and make people's trigger fingers very itchy when you are around..
Talking Heads
10-09-18, 04:51 PM
Stop reading the daily mail, its melting your brain.
Since we have drifted seriously :offtopic:
I bring your attention back to the original article which has now been updated with another guy teaching Nike what they can do with their shoes. He even arranges the shoes for the camera so you can see the capital "N" on them...wait, isn't that...oh well, it's the thought that counts, I suppose.
https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2018/09/11/people-enjoying-trump-supporters-schoolboy-error/
I keep thinking that people cannot be that stupid but they keep demonstrating otherwise, therefore I have a cunning, mad scientist plan; I develop a persistent, airborne contraceptive and you only get the antidote if you pass an intelligence test. Solves the stupidity of mankind, reduces the population and makes me rich. Pass me that biology introduction book. :D
I keep thinking that people cannot be that stupid but they keep demonstrating otherwise, therefore I have a cunning, mad scientist plan; I develop a persistent, airborne contraceptive and you only get the antidote if you pass an intelligence test. Solves the stupidity of mankind, reduces the population and makes me rich. Pass me that biology introduction book. :D
dont know about all that but my porridge oats were not milled properly when i poured them out the new packet this morning. looked at the packet and yup it said GIANT porridge oats, its a conspiracy i tell thee.
BanannaMan
12-09-18, 02:59 AM
A few answers to clear up some misconceptions.
Most higher tech white collar crime (fraud etc) carried out by whites, most drug and street crime probably by blacks. You don't normally get shot by police for white collar crime.....
Simples........
Drug crimes are prevalent among all races.
Because the "justice system" in the USA is run as a private industry.
People are incarcerated in order to provide slave labour for big business.
95% of prison inmates in the USA have never been to trial.
Only the rich elite has access to justice, because only they can afford it.
Er..what????
FALSE
Sorry, not one word of that is true.
you also have to remember the 3 times rule, if you commit a crime no matter how trivial and it is more than three times its an automatic jail sentence in America unless your lawyer is very very good.
It's up to the Judge whether to hit you with the "3 strike rule" or not, if it's trivial enough and there is no victim he may not, but I wouldn't count on it.
If they they do charge you, yes, it is an automatic sentence, you are escorted from the courtroom to the jail to serve that sentence AND the suspended sentences you got for the first 2 crimes.
Even if you are not jailed for a crime in the US you are given a suspended sentence and if you break your terms of suspension you will serve that sentence. Applies to any crime.
you would have to ask BanannaMan about this but i'm sure that if your caught a third time there is no trial as the judge either finds you guilty or not.
As noted above, True
there are two different levels of prosecution. a trial by jury and a bench trial. every single person has a bench trial but not everyone has a trial by jury.
True.
Smaller crimes involved in civil court (money disputes, etc.) get bench trials.
If you lose a bench trial, you can (possibly) appeal and then have a jury trial but if you are guilty or think you will be found guilty it would be a mistake.
Jury trials for civil matters are often called "Double or Nothing" as the penalty will be much worse if you lose the jury trial.
Note, if there is undeniable evidence of your guilt the judge will not grant you an appeal.
When quoting prisoners without trial it is a little misleading to include those who pleaded guilty. The alternative is to have someone plead guilty but then still go through the trial to prove guilt. That's a waste of time and money. You also have to remember that figure includes plea bargains. So the low trial rate reflects only those who pleaded innocent and then were found guilty.
True
There is only a trial if a not guilty plea is entered.
True and most make plea deals and plead guilty to get reduced sentences and fines.
The penalties are worse if you lose in a trial, so if you are guilty it's your best bet.
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