View Full Version : Will an R1 front master cylinder fit?
Hi guys. I’ve been researching brembos and nissins etc for days and looking for some used bargains on eBay, as I don’t wanna pay 200 quid for one and then another 50 for a braided line.
A local breaker has a k8 gsxr 1000 MC with lever, reservoir, braided lines etc for 100 quid. Do they fit as everyone seems to only talk about r600 and 750’s?
I was just gunna get some new pads and braided lines but thought I might as well get a new MC in there at the same time. I hear they are easier to bleed too.
Adam Ef
03-01-20, 05:37 PM
Fitting to what bike? An SV?
R1 and GSXR will be radial front brakes / mc etc. SV is axial brakes.
Dave20046
03-01-20, 06:00 PM
Fitting to what bike? An SV?
R1 and GSXR will be radial front brakes / mc etc. SV is axial brakes.
So?
You can still fit one you just wouldn't get the maximum benefit, it's still a 'better' technology.
It 'probably will', the problem physically is whether it will clear the fairing if you have an 'S'. It does on mine but I do have slightly different clipons.
The problem braking wise is the bore of the mastercylinder. And the bores varied on different Yams. Ask them what bore it is and compare.
Dave20046
03-01-20, 06:01 PM
That said there's nothing wrong with the SV masterclinder, especially if you;re on the SV 2pot brakes. You could save yourself even more money and not replace it. I would get the braided lines though if you don't have them.
You'd probably notice a bigger difference for the money in refurbing your calipers with new seals etc - if you've never done it.
garynortheast
03-01-20, 07:13 PM
You'd probably notice a bigger difference for the money in refurbing your calipers with new seals etc - if you've never done it.
Absolutely this. Nothing at all wrong with a well serviced set of SV brakes. They're more than a match for the bike.
Adam Ef
03-01-20, 07:14 PM
I thought the "etc" was referring to the caliper too.
Adam Ef
03-01-20, 07:15 PM
Braided lines and EBC HH pads on the front and I never had any issues with the SV stock brakes. I'm not fast rider though.
ItÂ’s on a K4 SV650S.
IÂ’ll start with a brake service as I donÂ’t know what shape they are in. IÂ’ll throw in a set of EBCÂ’s and some braided lines and go from there. I thought that radial master cylinders, such as brembos and nissins was a good upgrade for feel and bite. With the R6 ones dropping straight in.
I gave it a service the other month and changed brake fluid etc which was an improvement but I didnÂ’t give the brakes much attention. IÂ’ll have a read into how to service them and get it done .
R1ffR4ff
04-01-20, 03:00 PM
ItÂ’s on a K4 SV650S.
IÂ’ll start with a brake service as I donÂ’t know what shape they are in. IÂ’ll throw in a set of EBCÂ’s and some braided lines and go from there. I thought that radial master cylinders, such as brembos and nissins was a good upgrade for feel and bite. With the R6 ones dropping straight in.
I gave it a service the other month and changed brake fluid etc which was an improvement but I didnÂ’t give the brakes much attention. IÂ’ll have a read into how to service them and get it done .
Just to add. It's quite common on most modern bikes for riders to rely only on the Front brake. This can lead to the rear brake seizing over time through lack of use.
I still cover both brakes but mainly use my rear brake with my Front brake in slow traffic for stability and then I know it's getting used as well. It does no harm using both when you feel like it.
I have well maintained stock brakes and no Braided lines and I bet a I could do a,"Stoppy" if I wanted to that's more than enough for me :)
I use my rear brake all the time too. I was taught to use it all the time when slow manoeuvring or crawling along like you said. Although my dad has been riding a long time and he said he rarely ever uses his as he wasn't taught to.
My bike could never do a "stoppy". The brakes aren't poor but they are definitely not good.
EBC sintered HH pads are on the way and Hel lines. The bike seems well maintained, plenty of receipts, but i don't know when the brakes were last looked at. I've recently done an oil and coolant change, filters and brake fluid. It did improve the brakes, but not significantly. I'm just watching videos and reading online now about servicing my calipers. I like learning to do everything for myself, it's all part of the fun for me. I've found a service kit on wemoto for 34 quid to replace everything in the calipers. Is this a bad deal? it's not a lot to know everything is in order but if i'm being ripped off let me know.
Also, without trying to go off topic, when do you get valve clearances etc looked at? Is it something you should just get done when you get a used bike, or are they symptoms or mileage intervals etc. I don't fancy taking that one on myself yet until the garage is built
R1ffR4ff
04-01-20, 03:57 PM
I use my rear brake all the time too. I was taught to use it all the time when slow manoeuvring or crawling along like you said. Although my dad has been riding a long time and he said he rarely ever uses his as he wasn't taught to.
My bike could never do a "stoppy". The brakes aren't poor but they are definitely not good.
EBC sintered HH pads are on the way and Hel lines. The bike seems well maintained, plenty of receipts, but i don't know when the brakes were last looked at. I've recently done an oil and coolant change, filters and brake fluid. It did improve the brakes, but not significantly. I'm just watching videos and reading online now about servicing my calipers. I like learning to do everything for myself, it's all part of the fun for me. I've found a service kit on wemoto for 34 quid to replace everything in the calipers. Is this a bad deal? it's not a lot to know everything is in order but if i'm being ripped off let me know.
Also, without trying to go off topic, when do you get valve clearances etc looked at? Is it something you should just get done when you get a used bike, or are they symptoms or mileage intervals etc. I don't fancy taking that one on myself yet until the garage is built
I can't advise on the service kit as I've not had to use one yet. I've only had my SV just under 3 years( it's a 99 Curvy). My front brake is freaking awesome for a 20+ year old bike :smt066
I use the old school method of bleeding my brakes e.g a bit of 6mm tube into a Glass jar a 3rd filled with old Brake fluid( I always keep my old Brake fluid as it's a great paint stripper for small parts if you leave them in it).
As for Valve clearances there's loads of opinions I've seen but one of the best quotes for these bikes was," I bet there's been more SV650 engines screwed up by failed attempts than if they were left alone".
I've also seen posts where people have gone over 100,000 miles and not checked them :O
My 99 only has 24k on it and as I do preemptive oil/filter/coolant and fluid changes unless I hear or feel something wrong with the engine I have no intention of checking the Valve clearances let alone adjusting them.
I never over-rev the engine as I've found no need. Quick slick gear changes between 6,000/7,000 rpm and I'm up to Motorway,"Combat Speed" in no time :smt023
These engines just rock :smt118
PS
The Transverse mounted V-Twin configuration should not be,"Wheelied" as it starves the Front cylinder of oil and usually causes costly premature engine failure.
My 2004 has clocked up about 28k miles i think. Sounds and runs great. Just doesn't wanna stop haha. I will leave the valve stuff. Don't want to spend more than i need to. What are these speed bleeders ive seen people talking about? I will be changing the bleed nipples to stainless ones when i clean the calipers
SV650rules
04-01-20, 04:34 PM
I have used a mityvac vacuum bleeder for many years for our cars and the now the SV, just make sure you keep reservoir topped up while bleeding brakes ...
i was just looking at those mityvacs. They had mixed reviews but if you say they fit well on the sv650 i might order one. I bought a throwaway thing from Halfords last time
Just realised they are 50 quid. Might be a bit to tight for that :smt005
SV650rules
04-01-20, 05:44 PM
i was just looking at those mityvacs. They had mixed reviews but if you say they fit well on the sv650 i might order one. I bought a throwaway thing from Halfords last time
Mityvacs are brilliant on cars because the plastic container they provide is roughly the same capacity as the brake reservoir and as long as you top up the reservoir before starting another wheel you know that when the plastic container is getting full the reservoir is getting empty... The best I ever did was fitting fat 'O' rings around the bleed nipples to stop air being sucked into pipe, but that teflon / PTFE tape used by plumbers around the thread is OK.
The supplied tube was a bit too loose on motorbike nipples but a small jubilee clip sorted it.
R1ffR4ff
04-01-20, 06:10 PM
My 2004 has clocked up about 28k miles i think. Sounds and runs great. Just doesn't wanna stop haha. I will leave the valve stuff. Don't want to spend more than i need to. What are these speed bleeders ive seen people talking about? I will be changing the bleed nipples to stainless ones when i clean the calipers
I've seen those speed bleeders but never bothered with them. They could be a good addition but my present nips are fine. On other Motorcycles I did replace worn nips with Hel Stainless ones.
Note: Many a good caliper has been ruined by hamfisted cross threading of nipples so always take extra care when fitting and never force anything.
As for Mighty Vacs etc I've never yet had need of them. I came up with a Trick years ago for priming an M/C to get pressure through.
Have right hand side bleed nipple open ready with Jar as previous.
Top up M/C to full.
Spit on hand and place on top of M/C and press to make a seal and then gently pump the lever and you should feel a slight vacuum form from your palm and the fluid start to flow. Top up M/C before it gets too low repeat/continue then bleed air out as normal for both sides.
I do the Right hand then the left and then the right again and then the left for good measure to make sure there's no air in the system.
Dave20046
04-01-20, 07:18 PM
I thought the "etc" was referring to the caliper too.
This makes sense, calipers would have been a disasterous purchase.
Just realised they are 50 quid. Might be a bit to tight for that :smt005
I use a big syringe and a bit of plastic pipe and feed from the bottom so bubbles can't really accumulate costs about £5. I've done a lot with brakes and am very picky and it's the best way I've found
You do get a bit more feel with the radial but it's not a lot more, in fact I took mine off and am currently using the std sv one, it's fine on road and a little track use and my brakes are very powerful, usually outbraking trackbikes.
What I would do is redo your caliper seals (buy some red rubber grease and new seals -check wemoto), SS braided lines (I got them pretty cheap from Hel), You can buy mastecylinder seal kits too but I wouldn't bother unless you think you have a fault with your cylinder. Take the money you would have put into the radial mastercylinder bling and buy some stiffer fork springs and new fork oil , that will help your braking far more than a radial MCylinder. Hagon progressives will do it, I think they're about £60
And don't forget plenty of copper grease
Craig380
05-01-20, 09:37 AM
A dodge that eliminates the need to remove the bleed nipples and add teflon tape is to wipe a small blob of grease around the base of the nipples before you start the bleeding process, to stop air getting down the threads. Greasy nipples FTW ;):D
Also, I've found using white silicone brake grease on the sliding pins makes a big difference. It's a couple of quid from eBay for sachets which will do several brake overhauls. It stays fresh & greasy for years and is kind to the rubber parts.
I never thought about changing the springs, it's a good idea though my suspension is a bit bouncy. Unfortunately though I only have a rear stand and nothing to hoist the bike up on so it's not a diy job for me i think. The calipers are getting a complete overhaul, all new seals etc, i've ordered the bits. I will have peave of mind then knowing they are mint. I'll have a look into springs, i know a mechanic who's big into his bikes who lives on my street so i will have a word with him about it. Are the Hagon progressives good? I can buy the bits and see if he wants to fit them for/with me.
I like the idea of gunking up over the threads when bleeding, that saves time.
Filling up the brakes from the calipers with a syringe sounds interesting. I read something about that on here before i will have a look into it. A fiver sounds good to me haha
Adam Ef
05-01-20, 11:52 AM
If you were nearer you'd be welcome to borrow my Abba stand and front lift bar. I've even still got the SV adaptors for it. Bit far down to Bristol though.
Getting some K-Tech linear springs and new oil in my forks was a massive improvement on my SV. I fitted emulators too, which were good but a bit of a faff to get set right. Took about 3 times refitting them adjusted and some oil weight tweaks to get it where I wanted. If I did it again I think I'd just change the springs and oil as that's what had the biggest effect. There's loads of useful info on here about it all too.
That would have been great. I actually bought by bike from Bristol, it is quite far haha. I think with the cost of doing the lines, caliper service, pads and fluid (£130) i might have to wait to get the springs done. I have been told that changing the fork oil might be a good improvement. I think i will try that. At least then i can tell the Mrs i tried the cheaper option first. I've already spent on a cowl and infills for removing the pillion seat, new double bubble screen. Stands and tools. Might be pushing my luck :D
Dave20046
05-01-20, 02:30 PM
I never thought about changing the springs, it's a good idea though my suspension is a bit bouncy. Unfortunately though I only have a rear stand and nothing to hoist the bike up on so it's not a diy job for me i think. The calipers are getting a complete overhaul, all new seals etc, i've ordered the bits. I will have peave of mind then knowing they are mint. I'll have a look into springs, i know a mechanic who's big into his bikes who lives on my street so i will have a word with him about it. Are the Hagon progressives good? I can buy the bits and see if he wants to fit them for/with me.
I like the idea of gunking up over the threads when bleeding, that saves time.
Filling up the brakes from the calipers with a syringe sounds interesting. I read something about that on here before i will have a look into it. A fiver sounds good to me haha
Yes you just open the master cylinder cap, put an 8ml ring spanner round the nipple and then tube over the nipple. Add a little pressure to the syringe just before you crack the nipple then as it undoes add more pressure injections the whole system with the fluid . Once up to level do a little traditional bleed (pull lever and crack nipple open and closed, repeat for the other calliper) . All done .
Make sure you are using fresh brake fluid from a sealed bottle it genuinely makes a difference (I was once tempted to use a splash from a mechanics 4 litre tub he’d had open for god knows how long ... really sloppy pressure)
It depends on the rider I guess but I found the standard sv fairly unusable for spirited riding on windy (particularly up and down ) roads mainly because of the brake dive . Hagon springs was the single best bang for buck mod I did . I used a trolley jack under the engine and a bag of sand on the back seat to take the weight off . You can either take the forks out completely or use your trusty syringe (if you bought a long enough hose) to remove all the fork oil and refill with the new springs in all in situ
It is easier with another set of hands
Aside from he brake dive , keeping the wheel in contact with the ground is obviously very important to braking and the whole job of your suspension. I’ll bet you have 15 year old fork oil in those fork legs
Side note , don’t over do it putting grease round threads (and use common sense on the seals but don’t be too sparing with them ) - it works it’s way into the fluid and dilutes it which affects its function and changes boiling point etc . You’ll see a slight pink tinge after doing the seals
Dave20046
05-01-20, 02:47 PM
That would have been great. I actually bought by bike from Bristol, it is quite far haha. I think with the cost of doing the lines, caliper service, pads and fluid (£130) i might have to wait to get the springs done. I have been told that changing the fork oil might be a good improvement. I think i will try that. At least then i can tell the Mrs i tried the cheaper option first. I've already spent on a cowl and infills for removing the pillion seat, new double bubble screen. Stands and tools. Might be pushing my luck :D
I’d wait until you have springs before doing oil or you’re doing the same job twice .
As Adam says linear springs to your weight are better than progressives , I think they will be more expensive you also have to calculate the rate - use k-techs website
Yea i might as well do the forks and oil at once, and spray them while they are off. They are starting to flake a bit at the top. The rest of the bike looks good so it stands out a bit. My list is getting longer now :D. To be honest though my maintenance will be up to date when i've done those. My rear brake can wait because its not too shabby yet
Adam Ef
05-01-20, 06:03 PM
Sorting suspension and brakes? Why not go for the GSXR front end swap! :p
squirrel_hunter
05-01-20, 09:08 PM
Might be a little late to the discussion here, but... Properly serviced SV650 brakes are fine, you don't need to change the M/C. I would only advise on that when doing a front end swap.
I gave it a service the other month and changed brake fluid etc which was an improvement but I didnÂ’t give the brakes much attention. IÂ’ll have a read into how to service them and get it done .
This is slightly troubling considering the following discussion on how to bleed brakes. What process did you use to bleed the brakes? Additionally have you checked the wear in the pads? Servicing the brakes is fairly straight forward provided you have the right tools and a good manual. But they are you're brakes if you are unsure what you are doing, take it to someone who knows.
Giving the brakes a full strip clean and rebuild with new pads and lines on a bike this age is a good decision particularly if you do not have the service history.
Just to add. It's quite common on most modern bikes for riders to rely only on the Front brake. This can lead to the rear brake seizing over time through lack of use.
I still cover both brakes but mainly use my rear brake with my Front brake in slow traffic for stability and then I know it's getting used as well. It does no harm using both when you feel like it.
Now I'm not going to tell you how to ride as everyone has their own style, but I've never understood why some people mainly use the rear brake. If you look at it the disc is a single one that is small with a small caliper, compared to the front which has a bigger surface area on each disc, as well as twin discs, and in lots of cases much bigger calipers. I've always considered this a clue as to which brake is intended to be used more...
My bike could never do a "stoppy". The brakes aren't poor but they are definitely not good.
Properly serviced and maintained SV650 can stoppy, they can even do that two up. Ask me how me and Strechie know.
Also, without trying to go off topic, when do you get valve clearances etc looked at?
Check the service manual, and the bikes service history. If it hasn't got a service history there is no harm is doing the valve check and if needed adjustment. As with the brakes its fairly straight forward provided you have the right tools and a good manual. But if you are unsure what you are doing, take it to someone who knows.
I never over-rev the engine as I've found no need. Quick slick gear changes between 6,000/7,000 rpm and I'm up to Motorway,"Combat Speed" in no time :smt023
Now I'm not going to tell you how to ride as everyone has their own style, but you do know that they rev to 10,500 before the red line, and peak power is around 8,500. It does no harm to rev the engine as it was designed to be used.
And don't forget plenty of copper grease
No. Do not use copper grease on your brakes. It is not needed. It does nothing. It is not recommended by any manufacturer that I am aware of on a modern brake setup such as the SV650 has.
Chris_SVS
05-01-20, 09:43 PM
Copper grease does not go near brakes
What process did you use to bleed the brakes?
Following a guide on here and youtube videos, i put a bleed tube on with a tub, put pressure on the brake, opened the bleed nipple, let it travel to the end and closed the nipple, and repeated until the brake fluid coming out was clean and free of bubbles (new unopened dot4), not letting the reservoir get low. I did this with both callipers until all the old light brown stuff was clean, then did the rear. It is very possible there is air in the line now, although it was good for a few month. I heard tiny little bubbles can form into a big one and make it spongy. I think i did a good job but theres every chance that air is in there now. Maybe after another bleed it would be ok, but i want to know everything is in good order and know when it was last done as you said.
As for the rear brake i use mine a bit too. I use the front brake 90% of the time but when plodding along at very low speeds it is easy to keep in a straight line with a tiny bit of back brake. Very easy to do very slow speed manoeuvring and u-turns etc with no worry of tipping, just a bit of back brake and keep a little bit of throttle on, just enough to not stall with the clutch biting. I passed my test in June (i think) and that is how i was taught, it is actually in the test now. My dad and my friends don't get it either but i don't know any different now :)
Today i have ordered some front EBC sintered HH pads and HEL braided lines, and a calliper service kit with all new seals and rubbers, stainless steel bleed nipples. I'm reading into it now and watching some videos. This site is great for learning. I am pretty confident i can do the job well with the right instructions. I'm a precision engineer so half an hour with it in the parts washer at work will get any remaining grease out of it too after a good cleaning up. It's pretty much an industrial dish washer without the soap.
I appreciate all the advice. I've spent years making one off parts for planes e.t.c but can't even change brake pads haha. Yet.. anyway.
Thanks for all the advice anyway its much appreciated, i am learning a lot as i go along
redtrummy
05-01-20, 10:45 PM
Removed my front end without any special kit. Lifted the front end up and used rope from a joist in the garage. Put a supporting jack under the engine and progressed from there. Some years ago though, looks as if I will have to repeat as the oil seal in one fork leg is giving up the ghost.
Removed my front end without any special kit. Lifted the front end up and used rope from a joist in the garage. Put a supporting jack under the engine and progressed from there. Some years ago though, looks as if I will have to repeat as the oil seal in one fork leg is giving up the ghost.
I don't have a garage anymore. It was absolutely knackered when i moved in here so it got pulled down. It is getting done this year though. My springs may be shortly after. I'll have to make sure i get some strong joists :D
Had a re roof, re-wire, new heating system, kitchen, ceilings, knocked a wall out. Just done a big lawn. Been a busy bunny. Mrs agrees the garage is next before i do the bathroom :drink:
squirrel_hunter
06-01-20, 12:34 AM
Today i have ordered some front EBC sintered HH pads and HEL braided lines, and a calliper service kit with all new seals and rubbers, stainless steel bleed nipples.
Good choice in pad and line, I have the same set up. Also reassured in the bleed procedure you've used. A little trick once you've bled the brakes is to zip tie the lever to the bar overnight, it opens up the system to allow any little trapped air to rise to the surface and out of the lines. Firms up the lever action.
When you come to replace the seals be sure to inspect the pistons. I would expect to see a little dirt and pitting, this can be cleaned up without to much aggression but anything to much and you may need replacement pistons.
As for cleaning the calipers I wouldn't expect to see any grease in there per say more dirt and hardened grime behind the dust seals so a seal pick is useful here. If you have an ultrasonic cleaner I'd be tempted to give that a go as well, not tried that myself as I haven't needed to service any calipers since getting a little one...
Dave20046
06-01-20, 08:07 AM
Might be a little late to the discussion here, but... Properly serviced SV650 brakes are fine, you don't need to change the M/C. I would only advise on that when doing a front end swap.
This is slightly troubling considering the following discussion on how to bleed brakes. What process did you use to bleed the brakes? Additionally have you checked the wear in the pads? Servicing the brakes is fairly straight forward provided you have the right tools and a good manual. But they are you're brakes if you are unsure what you are doing, take it to someone who knows.
Giving the brakes a full strip clean and rebuild with new pads and lines on a bike this age is a good decision particularly if you do not have the service history.
Now I'm not going to tell you how to ride as everyone has their own style, but I've never understood why some people mainly use the rear brake. If you look at it the disc is a single one that is small with a small caliper, compared to the front which has a bigger surface area on each disc, as well as twin discs, and in lots of cases much bigger calipers. I've always considered this a clue as to which brake is intended to be used more...
Properly serviced and maintained SV650 can stoppy, they can even do that two up. Ask me how me and Strechie know.
Check the service manual, and the bikes service history. If it hasn't got a service history there is no harm is doing the valve check and if needed adjustment. As with the brakes its fairly straight forward provided you have the right tools and a good manual. But if you are unsure what you are doing, take it to someone who knows.
Now I'm not going to tell you how to ride as everyone has their own style, but you do know that they rev to 10,500 before the red line, and peak power is around 8,500. It does no harm to rev the engine as it was designed to be used.
No. Do not use copper grease on your brakes. It is not needed. It does nothing. It is not recommended by any manufacturer that I am aware of on a modern brake setup such as the SV650 has.
I copperslip the pins and back of pads and particularly the rear caliper pin which seizes in on the SV. Works great for me.
Edit: Looks like the back of the pads thing is being disproven as an old dad's tale
https://youtu.be/V3MDXUT8RtA
Chris_SVS
06-01-20, 08:25 AM
Used to be a thing, now it isn't.
aesmith
06-01-20, 04:28 PM
I use the old school method of bleeding my brakes e.g a bit of 6mm tube into a Glass jar a 3rd filled with old Brake fluid( I always keep my old Brake fluid as it's a great paint stripper for small parts if you leave them in it).
Pretty much the same here, except I start with the jar empty. No real need for fancy one way valves or anything since you can reach the bleed screw with one hand and the brake lever with the other. They bleed pretty easily even if you accidentally run the m/c too low and suck a bubble in from the top.
One tip is to start with the pistons fully retracted, less space in the caliper to air to be sitting.
R1ffR4ff
06-01-20, 06:46 PM
Pretty much the same here, except I start with the jar empty. No real need for fancy one way valves or anything since you can reach the bleed screw with one hand and the brake lever with the other. They bleed pretty easily even if you accidentally run the m/c too low and suck a bubble in from the top.
One tip is to start with the pistons fully retracted, less space in the caliper to air to be sitting.
Good tip. I use a C-clamp with a bit plastic protection strip to press the pistons in so it's easier to slide the caliper over the discs. I use red brake grease,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-gram-CASTROL-RED-RUBBER-GREASE-BRAKE-CYLINDERS-SEALS-O-RINGS-mini-tin/172481763013?epid=22031288483&hash=item2828b6d6c5:g:JQkAAOSwKtlWq9-q
on the pins after de-corrosion and polishing them and a very thin smear of copper grease/slip on the back of the pads to aid the anti-squeal clips. :cool:
Just started to take the callipers off. Look at these pads:
R1ffR4ff
10-01-20, 02:39 PM
Just started to take the callipers off. Look at these pads
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/CCKdvqG
You've picked the wrong link from Imgur. Pick the Direct Link option : then use the little envelope option on here but remove the Blue HTTP before you copy and paste it into the box :)
https://i.imgur.com/wbegY1p.jpg?1
Try that one
R1ffR4ff
10-01-20, 02:47 PM
Is it meant to be blurred?
Chris_SVS
10-01-20, 03:11 PM
Those need a wee clean
when i took the pistons out they both came out together and i don't know which is which. will it matter?
Chris_SVS
10-01-20, 03:36 PM
Nope
Cheers.
Just found that my master cylinder is an axial Nissin. Is this standard? The reservoir is pretty new so made me have a good look.
Is it worth changing these seals? Not removed anything yet apart from pads. They look pretty new and clean. The sliding pins seem a bit stiff
https://i.imgur.com/fSFXzNLl.jpg
Chris_SVS
10-01-20, 04:15 PM
I wouldn't take pistons out without changing seals, that's just me though.
I might as well. Having issues with the sliders not moving at the mo. Cant pull the sliding bit out, both sides are well and truly seized. Soaking in wd50 at the moment.
Dave20046
10-01-20, 08:09 PM
As per Chris' comment. You may aswell change them, they're an unknown age and quality and they can look okay but have actually swollen - to me the dust seals look a bit gammy but that could just be the light/liquid on them. They'll always look fairly clean as they're submerged...see what you find behind them.
I might as well. Having issues with the sliders not moving at the mo. Cant pull the sliding bit out, both sides are well and truly seized. Soaking in wd50 at the moment.
If you didn't before you will now! WD40 is pretty bad for them.
Which slider? The one at the top side of the caliper or pin?
SV650rules
10-01-20, 08:27 PM
I might as well. Having issues with the sliders not moving at the mo. Cant pull the sliding bit out, both sides are well and truly seized. Soaking in wd50 at the moment.
WD40 is petroleum based and will swell and damage seals designed to work with brake fluid... but WD50 May be OK :)
Chris_SVS
10-01-20, 08:43 PM
A rebuild kit should include new rubbers, R clips, retainer pins anyway. When I rebuilt mine they required persuasion with a heavy device to break the salt :(
My 2015 Tracer 900 looked like this today with little more than a spray with cleaner and gentle scrubbing
https://i.imgur.com/cLR0eKRh.jpg
The two sliding pins at the top that join together with the plate. One is seized up pretty bad. Cut the rubber bits off and it was full of grit. Got some penetrant on there hoping it works it’s way through overnight. Will take it to work in the morning and get it in a vice tomorrow if not. I’d already took all the seals out before wd40, no point having a seal kit and opened up caliper and not using them. Was just being lazy because I’d spent ages trying to get the sliding bit off :-P
Chris_SVS
10-01-20, 08:48 PM
I still have nightmares!
https://i.imgur.com/Kyh1l7Dh.jpg
I still have nightmares!
Wow. Did they clean up?
Chris_SVS
10-01-20, 08:57 PM
Yep made it work somehow
squirrel_hunter
10-01-20, 09:13 PM
The pads look ok. The seals look reasonable, but if you have replacements it will be rude not to use them.
The caliper does need a clean, particularly the inside, thats some lovely gunk you've got in there. Those piston bores must be spotless before reassembly. The pistons don't appear to have anything obvious on them but more investigation once cleaned will be needed.
As for cleaning, remember to remove the pad retaining springs to clean behind. Just remember the orientation they fit for when it comes to reassembly.
As for the slides, yes they should move. I've not had it on a SV but yes they can seize. Working them free, soaking them, applying heat, applying leverage are all valid options, but take care on those last two options. Rebuild kits normally have replacement rubbers in them so I expect you're sorted here. Remember to grease them on reassembly, one of the very few areas of the brakes that should have grease.
Gently pressed it out at work. Drier than Gandhi’s sandals in there
https://i.imgur.com/uh8uusY.jpg
One of the pins is bent .38mm over the length of it. Hoping it won’t matter as I don’t fancy bending it back. Looks like it’s happened before looking at the end of the pins. They have damage to the ends as though someone has used a punch to get them out. The crud/powder in that hole is half a mm thick on each side
Dave20046
11-01-20, 07:14 PM
It’s worth giving them
A go now and see how they are. Be super careful with the seals and you can transplant to new callipers if needed , but I doubt.
I know people have said grease has no place near brakes, but I really would put a little on the moving parts. EBC said no to the back of the pads, not sliders
I have some red rubber grease I was thinking of putting in there as well as on the new seals. I don’t need to put anything on the pistons do I? I’ve heard to use silicon and I’ve heard not to and to use brake fluid
I found a post on these forums saying not to use brake fluid to lube the pistons.
"brake fluid is hygroscopic by nature so will draw moisture into it on contact so come winter time the salt from the roads gets pulled in under the seal recesses and corrosion starts. this is the main cause of brakes seizing.
RRG is not the only thing you can use. you can also use silicone grease which has a lot more uses such as for rebuilding forks and greasing your foot peg and lever pivots."
Is this the general opinion? I will be reassembling the caliper tomorrow and doing the other one
squirrel_hunter
11-01-20, 11:30 PM
Suzuki in their workshop manual says to use brake fluid to lube the piston seals. They also say to use silicone grease on the sliders.
I've done that before and have also used RRG on the seals and multipurpose grease on sliders.
As for the bent slider pin not seen that before.
SV650rules
12-01-20, 09:59 AM
Have used this on brakes of cars and bikes for many years now, compatible with brake fluid and works very well on slide pins - http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/XZS120GB.pdf
Dave20046
12-01-20, 01:36 PM
I found a post on these forums saying not to use brake fluid to lube the pistons.
"brake fluid is hygroscopic by nature so will draw moisture into it on contact so come winter time the salt from the roads gets pulled in under the seal recesses and corrosion starts. this is the main cause of brakes seizing.
RRG is not the only thing you can use. you can also use silicone grease which has a lot more uses such as for rebuilding forks and greasing your foot peg and lever pivots."
Is this the general opinion? I will be reassembling the caliper tomorrow and doing the other one
I use a little red rubber grease on the pistons
what stops the brake pads moving around? ive put them back together but they can both move up and down on the pins when they are assembled. i wondered the same thing when i took them off?
Chris_SVS
12-01-20, 03:57 PM
The springy plate, the other end of the pad rests on another plate on the carrier
Should there be springs or something separating the pads or moving them back because they can both move around a bit
https://i.imgur.com/CHjj7pM.jpg
look at that image the rh pad can move at the bottom but stops on a lip on the moving plate thing at the bottom but the left hand pad can move on the bottom pin to the middle of the pin. is this normal. cant see anything to stop it. To me it seems the pad would always touch the rotor
R1ffR4ff
12-01-20, 04:22 PM
Put your year into here and then bookmark it. I use Partsfiche in combination with the WSM when doing work on Motorcycles,
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/c/suzuki_motorcycle/parts
HTH :)
Looks like I have al the parts in according to that. Had a proper nightmare. Didn’t take both sets of pistons out just took one caliper off and did it. Just gone back to the bike to get the other pistons and caliper off and I’ve obviously got no pressure. All my g clamps are missing to clamp the line up with, tried folding it over and cable tying. Put a bag over the end in case it leaked and still got brake fluid all over the front wheel and rim which I’ve wiped off. Ended up getting ****ed off so just took the caliper off anyway thinking I’ll nip into work and air line it off. No ones there. The one Sunday where no ones in. So will have to try and get the pistons out with some pliers if I can get something to stop it marking them tonight
I don’t want to put the other caliper back on as I’m changing the lines and don’t want any crap in my clean caliper. Also need some new bolts to re attach it as they are a bit tired
aesmith
13-01-20, 02:21 PM
You could try a bolt and nut through the disconnected banjo end, with washers either side. You don't need the seal to be perfect, as long as it allows some pressure be developed for a second or so.
I took the caliper into work and got it off with an air line. Was really easy actually. I opened the bleed valve and put a tight bit of hose on it, pushed the other end on a air gun. Had to put a bolt in the banjo hole to block it and they popped out. Had a piece of wood where the brake disc would be so they came out level. Just need to press the sliding pin out on this one now.
Cheers guys I’ve done both calipers with new seals. Both calipers sliders were seized and it’s been a pain in the ass. Bikes all back together and system bled etc. Brake lever is nice and firm, but... when I push the bike I can hear the pads on the front disk. Is this normal? Doesn’t sound normal
Chris_SVS
19-01-20, 02:39 PM
Yes, they'll push back enough when the disc is rotating waay faster
aesmith
19-01-20, 03:21 PM
Normal if they're new pads, not really if you're refitting the existing one. However check again after a few miles before worrying. What I sometimes do is try to avoid using the front brake for a bit, then stop and check that the disks are cold. If you can't do that, check that they're the same temperature.
Oh that’s good to know. They are new pads. I got some ebc sintered HH pads. I am tempted to put the old ones back on though just to see the difference in what a reconditioned caliper with new HEL lines feels like. I’m being gentle on the new pads for a few hundred miles and I wouldn’t have to on the old pads. Plenty of life in them too
squirrel_hunter
19-01-20, 05:10 PM
when I push the bike I can hear the pads on the front disk. Is this normal? Doesn’t sound normal
Perfectly normal for brakes new and old. When the brakes are on the pads are pushed against the disc, when off the pressure is released and the pads essentially stay where they are just about resting on the disc. That is where the noise is coming from. Lift the front end of the bike and spin the wheel, it should be free and easy and you will hear the noise of the pads on the disc. Now if its difficult to turn the wheel then you may have a brake related issue such as seized calipers etc, but considering what you've done I wouldn't think this will be the case.
I’m being gentle on the new pads for a few hundred miles and I wouldn’t have to on the old pads.
Get used to the feel and feedback from the brake but there is no need to be gentle, just use them normally.
Two weeks later.... my brakes are brilliant. Thanks again guys
Dave20046
02-02-20, 09:32 PM
spot on
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