View Full Version : Social Distancing ...
daktulos
28-03-20, 03:07 PM
No going out today, so I have mostly been pulling up bamboo roots from under stone tiles in the garden. I think the garden is going to get a bit more attention this summer ...
https://i.postimg.cc/020GLJKT/IMG-4308.jpg (https://postimg.cc/TphWb190)
Chris_SVS
28-03-20, 03:14 PM
I haven't really left the house until this morning(I rode MTB to my sisters but that's basically same household) Worrying that I may be incubating some germs, I'm confident I'm ok and so far sister mum and nephew are grand,
However, had a proper ride out on MTB this morning and it was glorious. If we could find some paint I've jobs to be doing as well as powerwashing.
I'm not at work until mid April. Been catching up on odd jobs and I need to service the brakes on my SV at some point.
Craig380
28-03-20, 07:15 PM
Washed the bike, ACF-50'd it, lubed the chain and did my disc bobbins.
Red Herring
29-03-20, 09:57 AM
I haven't been out "Socially" for the best part of a month. Until last weekend I was still going out on my motorcycle and meeting people, but we weren't doing cafes or such like and only riding together. Fortunately being mostly retired it's been relatively painless for me, the Mrs. is still going to her surgeries but she's very infection aware anyhow as part of her job so it was just a case of ramping it up a bit and not bringing it home.
I've a million things to do at home, all the bikes have been serviced, the camper is ready for when it is safe to emerge and I'm just about to start on the boat! I've an old MX5 that I haven't used for a few years in need of restoration if I get really desperate! We're ready for the long haul, but there's a regatta at the end of May I'd quite like this to be over for!
I haven't really left the house until this morning(I rode MTB to my sisters but that's basically same household) Worrying that I may be incubating some germs, I'm confident I'm ok and so far sister mum and nephew are grand,
However, had a proper ride out on MTB this morning and it was glorious. If we could find some paint I've jobs to be doing as well as powerwashing.
Really? I hardly ever come in here nowadays but bit bored at home now.
You visited your Mum and sister and nephew IN ANOTHER HOUSE? Which bit of the guidance on social distancing didn't you get? You may have it, they may have, you may have caught some infected droplets riding along. You may have skidded and needed precious NHS care.
Do not socialise! Don't go out unless you have to.
Stop being a selfish ***** and think of others :smt070
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults
Yeah that's not the same household. My mum is disabled and has limited mobility but I'll only go around if she is unable to get food or essentials local to her. I don't want to risk making her ill and have her pass it on to the other elderly at risk members of my family.
Red Herring
29-03-20, 01:27 PM
... you may have caught some infected droplets riding along.....
Messie mate, absolutely everything you said was spot on.....except that bit. Rather blew the credibility of the rest of your post I'm afraid.
Not so. Depending on where you are the droplets from sneezing and coughing from others can be breathed in
Red Herring
29-03-20, 02:06 PM
I think it's important to fight this virus from a position of knowledge, not paranoia..... If you're in a room then there is certainly a risk from someone coughing or sneezing. If you're outside the risk is still there if you're downwind or close enough, but it's significantly reduced. If you're riding your bike along and the person driving in front of you sneezes out of the window then if you're close enough to be worried about catching Covid-19 I'd suggesting you're more at risk of running into them..... I suppose you check which way the wind is blowing before you go out into your garden do you, or have you got a rota set up with the neighbour to avoid you both being out at the same time?
Ok fine. I've made my point. I'll leave now
Keep safe and well
It's a very good point Messie. We are all locked up because we don't listen. Boris gave us the rope and we hung ourselves with it. People out and about as normal, even one guy driving from Sheffield to Wales for a holiday. What part of essential travel do people not understand?
Chris_SVS
29-03-20, 02:27 PM
Really? I hardly ever come in here nowadays but bit bored at home now.
You visited your Mum and sister and nephew IN ANOTHER HOUSE? Which bit of the guidance on social distancing didn't you get? You may have it, they may have, you may have caught some infected droplets riding along. You may have skidded and needed precious NHS care.
Do not socialise! Don't go out unless you have to.
Stop being a selfish ***** and think of others :smt070
I live with said parent, said parent acts as nanny daycare while sister is working (from her home) soon I shall also work from that same home. We are all in constant contact with each other, in both houses and in both of our shared vehicles - essentially one household. This occured long before CV19
Thanks for your input and notable insult.
Since I only ride for pleasure the bike has been laid up for a while. It might be 6 months (yikes) so I guess it will test whether the fuel stabiliser works. It's currently on its side stand but I may put it on the Abbastand to keep the tyres from distorting.
I never thought that, on stopping riding, my most dangerous activity would become grocery shopping. I may venture out on Wednesday - Indiana Jones and the Last Shop?
No real difference to me, still ride into Central London for work, walk the dog daily and stay indoors pretty much the rest of my off duty time - about the only thing I'm missing is popping round to see my mum :)
garynortheast
30-03-20, 10:47 AM
A bit buggered really as far as work goes as any IT work would involve going into peoples houses currently, which is obviously a big no-no. I’m thinking I going to have to stop the gardening work for people too. So no more self employed income and just a state pension to try and live on.
Post Office should be ashamed of themselves. still getting fliers through the door... WTF.
on another note.. i'm having to deliver meals to my mum as she broke her ankle a few weeks ago.
also dont want to go "Indiana Jones and the shop crusade".....
Red Herring
30-03-20, 10:03 PM
Post Office should be ashamed of themselves. still getting fliers through the door... WTF.
.
I spoke to our postie about that, they don't get any choice, they're required to dish them out. I suppose a senior management decision could be made about it but business is business to them. We are just leaving them where they fall in the porch (we don't use our front door so the pile can grow). We hook the letters out and spray them with a bleach solution before opening them.
Biker Biggles
31-03-20, 07:17 AM
I hadnt thought of post as being a significant carrier of the virus. Does it persist on letters/papers for very long?
daktulos
31-03-20, 07:41 AM
I hadnt thought of post as being a significant carrier of the virus. Does it persist on letters/papers for very long?
The advice I heard was that it's possible, but much shorter than on hard surfaces (maybe a couple of hours), and not to worry about it too much and just continue to wash your hands after receiving post.
Of course, no one really knows for sure, and if you're particularly vulnerable it may still be worth taking additional steps.
Craig380
31-03-20, 08:41 AM
Most viruses - including Covid-19 - don't actually remain actively infectious for long on surfaces like metal, plastic and paper, maybe a few hours at most, because they're not 'alive' as such. They're bundles of RNA held together loosely with some protein chains. Unless the virus binds to the receptors on an animal or human cell, the virus starts to fall apart (this is why handwashing with soap is effective, it breaks up the proteins around the RNA core and stops the virus being able to work).
However, their RNA is still detectable on those surfaces for days, even though the virus has 'died.' For fans of crime and forensics shows, it's the equivalent of being able to find DNA on old bed sheets etc days or weeks after a crime has been committed.
Red Herring
31-03-20, 10:26 AM
As Craig says the virus doesn't survive away from a host for as long as the media have been trying to convince us, but unless you have a particularly long drive two hours is plenty long enough for your postman to have coughed into his hand before picking up your letters and putting them through your door..... That's why we treat the outside of the letter/parcel but are not to concerned with the contents.
Craig380
31-03-20, 10:58 AM
This is interesting, from The Guardian:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/30/uk-police-guidelines-coronavirus-lockdown-enforcement-powers-following-criticism-lord-sumption
According to the article: "The National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) and College of Policing are rushing through guidance reminding officers that despite politicians’ warnings, they cannot bar people from going for a run or a drive. It will state that while certain actions such as driving to exercise may be unwise, they are not prohibited by the emergency powers, according to sources with knowledge of detailed discussions. It is also expected to conclude the law does not restrict people to exercising outside only once a day."
Now I am NOT saying "everyone disconnect their Optimates and get their bikes out" but I do agree that the responses of some police forces in some cases has been disproportionate. If the Government issues clear instructions - such as those in France, Spain, Greece etc - then those should be enforced. But right now, the Government's recommendations are guidelines, not a law, and it's a slippery slope if individual forces are allowed to interpret that how they wish.
Chris_SVS
31-03-20, 11:28 AM
This is interesting, from The Guardian:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/30/uk-police-guidelines-coronavirus-lockdown-enforcement-powers-following-criticism-lord-sumption
According to the article: "The National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) and College of Policing are rushing through guidance reminding officers that despite politicians’ warnings, they cannot bar people from going for a run or a drive. It will state that while certain actions such as driving to exercise may be unwise, they are not prohibited by the emergency powers, according to sources with knowledge of detailed discussions. It is also expected to conclude the law does not restrict people to exercising outside only once a day."
Now I am NOT saying "everyone disconnect their Optimates and get their bikes out" but I do agree that the responses of some police forces in some cases has been disproportionate. If the Government issues clear instructions - such as those in France, Spain, Greece etc - then those should be enforced. But right now, the Government's recommendations are guidelines, not a law, and it's a slippery slope if individual forces are allowed to interpret that how they wish.
Some forces have been pretty daft with this so it's a good thing to reign them in, but at the same time some people have also been really daft with their interpretation of the advice - if these folk happen to have their photo taken via use of a drone then, oh well!
We're somewhat waiting on exercise being banned or at least geofenced within a radius of your house like the ROI did. But my simple opinion on riding motorcycles for pleasure is - Don't -
This is interesting, from The Guardian:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/30/uk-police-guidelines-coronavirus-lockdown-enforcement-powers-following-criticism-lord-sumption
According to the article: "The National Police Chiefs Council (NPCC) and College of Policing are rushing through guidance reminding officers that despite politicians’ warnings, they cannot bar people from going for a run or a drive. It will state that while certain actions such as driving to exercise may be unwise, they are not prohibited by the emergency powers, according to sources with knowledge of detailed discussions. It is also expected to conclude the law does not restrict people to exercising outside only once a day."
Now I am NOT saying "everyone disconnect their Optimates and get their bikes out" but I do agree that the responses of some police forces in some cases has been disproportionate. If the Government issues clear instructions - such as those in France, Spain, Greece etc - then those should be enforced. But right now, the Government's recommendations are guidelines, not a law, and it's a slippery slope if individual forces are allowed to interpret that how they wish.
It's not been enforced, yet, as they want this to be a 'choice' as much of it is a suggestion. That way at least people feel like they are have an active role in choosing to stay home, and minimising their outings unless absolutely necessary.
Granted it is open to interpretation. And you will always get people who will do what they want, because they don't understand their potential impact on the larger society and the bigger picture.
100 years ago people had to go to war to save lives- and most didn't have a choice in it. All we need to do is stay home. I know which one I prefer to do....
Red Herring
31-03-20, 06:28 PM
Rather than trying to interpret the various versions that keep getting thrown around in the media it's probably best to go straight to the source and make your own informed opinion.
This is a good place to start, if you've an eye for reading the actual legislation it's there for you, if you want to read the version for dummies which is what they give to the police officers it's there to....... :)
http://ukpolicelawblog.com
Dave20046
31-03-20, 07:21 PM
I hadnt thought of post as being a significant carrier of the virus. Does it persist on letters/papers for very long?
It's more of a risk than exclusively motorcycle affecting droplets.
I think I caught it through work using keyboards others hadn't used in days, a colleague who wore latex gloves has remained well whereas every other member of the same team fell ill.
I'd seen a report that when clearing out one of the covid ravaged cruiseships they found traces of the virus on stainless steel 17 days later. Think it was the Guardian or I but could be wrong. They previously said 3 days, clothing and fabric less. Shiny paper...who knows.
Red Herring
31-03-20, 07:58 PM
I think Craig explained that rather well a few posts previously. You can find traces of the virus for some considerable time but that doesn't mean the virus was still viable and capable of infection.
Incidentally wearing gloves doesn't stop you catching it directly, you don't get infected through the skin on your hands. They can help in that you are less inclined to touch your face whilst wearing gloves, and even less likely to eat something with them on, but they can give a false sense of security. You only have to watch the way people are behaving with them on. I'll give you an example.
People drive to the supermarket, get out of the car and put their gloves on before getting their trolly. They then do all their shopping, take it back to the car and open the door to put the shopping in. After they have returned the trolly they take their gloves off, get in the car and drive home. What do they do when they get home? Open the door to get the shopping out and in doing so transfer any virus that was on their gloves to their hands via the handle. They then handle all the shopping they had also previously handled with their gloves on, putting it all away whilst having that cup of tea and biscuit they had been so looking forward to whilst shopping..... See what I mean? If they hadn't been wearing gloves they would have treated everything they had touched, and their hands, as a potential infection risk and washed them before getting in the car, after unpacking, and before eating or drinking anything. There's a reason people are still getting infected left right and centre, this Virus is a proper bugger!
Dave20046
31-03-20, 08:37 PM
I think Craig explained that rather well a few posts previously. You can find traces of the virus for some considerable time but that doesn't mean the virus was still viable and capable of infection.
Incidentally wearing gloves doesn't stop you catching it directly, you don't get infected through the skin on your hands. They can help in that you are less inclined to touch your face whilst wearing gloves, and even less likely to eat something with them on, but they can give a false sense of security. You only have to watch the way people are behaving with them on. I'll give you an example.
People drive to the supermarket, get out of the car and put their gloves on before getting their trolly. They then do all their shopping, take it back to the car and open the door to put the shopping in. After they have returned the trolly they take their gloves off, get in the car and drive home. What do they do when they get home? Open the door to get the shopping out and in doing so transfer any virus that was on their gloves to their hands via the handle. They then handle all the shopping they had also previously handled with their gloves on, putting it all away whilst having that cup of tea and biscuit they had been so looking forward to whilst shopping..... See what I mean? If they hadn't been wearing gloves they would have treated everything they had touched, and their hands, as a potential infection risk and washed them before getting in the car, after unpacking, and before eating or drinking anything. There's a reason people are still getting infected left right and centre, this Virus is a proper bugger!
Yes, I understand that. I touch my face constantly. I don't think I do, but after an afternoon working on the bike my face is one big black smudge, so I must. Gloves would have prevented me doing it.
Hadn't seen craig's reply re. viable infection, hadn't thought of that.
Dave20046
31-03-20, 08:41 PM
People drive to the supermarket, get out of the car and put their gloves on before getting their trolly. They then do all their shopping, take it back to the car and open the door to put the shopping in. After they have returned the trolly they take their gloves off, get in the car and drive home. What do they do when they get home? Open the door to get the shopping out and in doing so transfer any virus that was on their gloves to their hands via the handle. They then handle all the shopping they had also previously handled with their gloves on, putting it all away whilst having that cup of tea and biscuit they had been so looking forward to whilst shopping..... See what I mean? If they hadn't been wearing gloves they would have treated everything they had touched, and their hands, as a potential infection risk and washed them before getting in the car, after unpacking, and before eating or drinking anything. There's a reason people are still getting infected left right and centre, this Virus is a proper bugger!
I do always think of this as the the tap lever dilemma. (Or indeed, more notorious bathroom door handle dilemma).
Those 'no-touch' soap dispensers used to really annoy me, they had the right idea but without a no-touch tap, what's the point? Same as dutifully washing your hands in a public toilet then exiting using the same door handle as someone who does not.
:safe:
Chris_SVS
31-03-20, 08:50 PM
I do always think of this as the the tap lever dilemma. (Or indeed, more notorious bathroom door handle dilemma).
Those 'no-touch' soap dispensers used to really annoy me, they had the right idea but without a no-touch tap, what's the point? Same as dutifully washing your hands in a public toilet then exiting using the same door handle as someone who does not.
:safe:
A colleague of mine made this point, you enter a workplace or public toilet area.
Touch the cublicle door - turn or slide the lock - open facebook - do your business - flush - touch the lock again - quite possibly touch the door - turn on/off the tap
20mins later - touch your phone screen, rub your eyes, eat your lunch
It's not good is it?
What about your fly or belt? Generally touch them before washing your hands.
Dave20046
31-03-20, 09:00 PM
Chris you're right, I hate handling other people's phones! They've got to be muckier than (famously dirty) cash.
What about your fly or belt? Generally touch them before washing your hands.
Fortunately I wear a kilt.
So I just hover and pray.
Chris_SVS
31-03-20, 09:14 PM
What about your fly or belt? Generally touch them before washing your hands.
I'm sure you got the point :p
Red Herring
31-03-20, 10:53 PM
What about your fly or belt? Generally touch them before washing your hands.
Touching your fly without washing your hands first won't hurt you, but be careful how much further you go. This virus infects you through your mucous membrane so the end of your urethra is a vulnerability......:o
The other issue is touching your face - most people touch their face 20 times/hour and once informed they're doing it, the frequency of touching increases (sorry about that). As someone who has a perpetually itchy nose and has always been a frequent sneezer, this is proving to be a difficult time.
https://www.livescience.com/why-hard-to-stop-touching-face.html
One of the advantages of wearing a mask (for non medical professionals) is that it draws your attention to the fact you're touching your face. Maybe I need to wear my helmet all the time?
Chris_SVS
01-04-20, 07:49 AM
Touching your fly without washing your hands first won't hurt you, but be careful how much further you go. This virus infects you through your mucous membrane so the end of your urethra is a vulnerability......:o
Is it possible to reverse circumcision :eek:
Dave20046
01-04-20, 08:38 AM
One of the advantages of wearing a mask (for non medical professionals) is that it draws your attention to the fact you're touching your face. Maybe I need to wear my helmet all the time?
I wouldn't, touching your helmet in public is frowned upon.
:santa:
i wonder if places of worship are sticking to social distancing?
keith_d
01-04-20, 03:12 PM
i wonder if places of worship are sticking to social distancing?
What you mean the ones who share a cup of wine and a plate of wafers between the lot of 'em. I'm sure God will take care of them.
A choir in Washington state (US) decided to go ahead with their practice, they kept to social distancing rules but of the 60 members that showed up (out of a possible 121), 2 are now dead and 45 have symptoms. They think it's because of the forced exhalation of breath during the singing.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak
daktulos
01-04-20, 05:30 PM
i wonder if places of worship are sticking to social distancing?
My personal belief is that this could be why Italy has been so badly affected. It's not a subject which is widely reported on, though.
Red Herring
01-04-20, 05:34 PM
My brother in law is a vicar, he's being doing all his sermons online for the last couple of weeks and the five churches he covers are all closed.
... and the five churches he covers are all closed.
As they should be according to the law.*
*except for funerals, broadcast of services over web, radio or TV broadcast or for other voluntary or public support services (paraphrased).
So here's a counterpoint view:
I have to say that, personally, I think the restrictions are disproportionate to the risk, and are likely to cause as much problem in other ways as might be presented by the virus. I'm getting more concerned about unwarranted Big Brother style government control leading to civil unrest than I am about the virus
IMHO, it's now being presented in a way that makes it appear that (i) any infection will likely lead to death and (ii) we should be striving to stop infection occuring. Creating the impression of the first is irresponsible and the second is impossible.
I get the need to slow the spread and try to reduce/spread the coincident peak, but the virus is out there and it will spread.
I'm also concerned about the death rates quoted. In the absence of confirmatory tests of all those showing symptoms, all statistical conclusions are compromised. Apparently, every death is being attributed to Covid where the virus is present but a large number would have been fatalities in the absence of the virus. Also, we have been shown very little by way of comparison with seasonal deaths from other flu-like infections, but these things do happen in large numbers every year.
(FYI, before the flame wars begin, I'm currently self-isolating the household because last week my son, who still lives with me at 25, came down with a killer headache and serious cough as well as slight fever and fatigue that laid him out for the best part of two days. Covid or not? Don't get me wrong, I agree that there's some real sh!t happening, that some mitigation is required and I'm taking it seriously but I just have an opinion that restrictions are being taken too far.)
Is the trade-off of lifestyle vs. risk worth it?
Finally, here's a cheeky curiosity for the internet "lawyers" to ponder:
The new legislation says that leaving the place where you are living is allowed "to avoid injury or illness or to escape risk of harm" (The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020, Section 6 (2)(m).
What would happen if I claimed I am trying to avoid illness by outrunning the coronavirus?:D:smt084
Is the trade-off of lifestyle vs. risk worth it?
Bolsonaro (Brazil) has decided to put the economy first although he's fighting some of his local governors, let's see how that works.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/deny-defy-bolsonaro-approach-coronavirus-brazil-200330181645501.html
I'm a cautious person by nature but I put aside some of that inherent caution to ride a motorbike. I've been riding for nearly 50 years so I was allowed to ride without a helmet when I first started riding; I never did because wearing one mitigated risk.
If I have to sacrifice one summer to keep me and others safe then I'll take the chance that some of the more draconian measures may remain because the risk (of death) has been mitigated (I reserve the right to be annoyed later though :rolleyes: )
If I was living in Hungary, I would be more worried:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-created-new-dictator-emboldens-authoritarians-worldwide-2020-4?r=US&IR=T
andrewsmith
02-04-20, 07:17 AM
i wonder if places of worship are sticking to social distancing?The Jewish community down here seems to be following the advice. There was 3 in one of small female synagogues out of a possible 30 last night
Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk
Craig380
02-04-20, 08:05 AM
I'm also concerned about the death rates quoted. In the absence of confirmatory tests of all those showing symptoms, all statistical conclusions are compromised. Apparently, every death is being attributed to Covid where the virus is present but a large number would have been fatalities in the absence of the virus. Also, we have been shown very little by way of comparison with seasonal deaths from other flu-like infections, but these things do happen in large numbers every year.
I agree with you. For example, at the moment, the majority of Covid-19 testing is done on people who are turning up at hospitals ill, with symptoms that may be the result of Covid-19 infection.
As of yesterday, 152,979 people have been tested, of which 29,474 were positive. So over 80% of people tested DID NOT have Covid-19.
In some cases, I have seen reporting which stated a patient who had tested positive for Covid-19 died, but of something unrelated to the infection. But it seems unclear if the stats are reporting people that died WITH a Covid-19 infection, of those that died OF it. Of course, in people with multiple underlying conditions, it's hard to pinpoint a specific cause of death as they all take their toll.
And Public Health England's stats show that for the past 5 years, the average number of deaths in England alone from 'normal' seasonal 'flu is 17,000 annually. This ranged from 1,692 deaths in 2018/19, to 28,330 deaths in 2014/15.
Covid-19 is a new and serious illness. But we can be sure of one thing: the real number of infections will be MUCH higher than the 153,000 that have tested positive - likely 5x or even 10x that. So while it is sensible that we take precautions to avoid overloading our already creaking healthcare system, I too am concerned that the current restrictions could get even more heavy-handed.
Biker Biggles
02-04-20, 08:24 AM
Im all in favour of doing proper rigorous academic studies of the benefits/costs of variousdifferent policies on this but actually we dont really know how it will pan ut nor do we really know the long term economic/social costs of it. My gut feeling is we need to fight it as hard as possible. Im ok with "emergency powers" with one big proviso. Those powers must be temporary and they must be fully repealed quickly when the crisis is over.
daktulos
02-04-20, 09:45 AM
You can fight the virus by isolating everyone until it goes away, and try to stop it at the borders until a vaccine is available, if it ever is. You take a big hit to the economy, it may be over quickly, but there may also be a second wave. (e.g. China, South Korea)
You can let it run through the population in the hope that it won't mutate and so will be spared a second wave. You take a big political hit for letting people die. (e.g. Belarus)
I think the UK actually has a fairly reasonable balanced approach - protect the most vulnerable while reducing transmission to a manageable level, but not zero. They won't say it for political reasons, but the more people who catch and get over the virus, the better.
Once there's an antibody test, things may start to go back to normal for people who have had it. Let's hope!
Chris_SVS
02-04-20, 10:02 AM
Was there not a previous interest in herd immunity? Until the numbers were crunched and it wasn't going to be in any way feasible
Craig380
02-04-20, 10:18 AM
Was there not a previous interest in herd immunity? Until the numbers were crunched and it wasn't going to be in any way feasible
There was, but taking that approach demands blanket testing of the population so that hotspots can be quickly identified, and measures taken to protect the most vulnerable people.
The Government overlooked the whole 'testing' bit because they're a bunch of incompetents, who have either ignored the advice of their senior health & scientific advisors, or bullied the advisors into agreement.
This article from The Lancet is especially damning on the Government's and national NHS management bungling and failures: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext
yokohama
02-04-20, 10:35 AM
There was, but taking that approach demands blanket testing of the population so that hotspots can be quickly identified, and measures taken to protect the most vulnerable people.
The Government overlooked the whole 'testing' bit because they're a bunch of incompetents, who have either ignored the advice of their senior health & scientific advisors, or bullied the advisors into agreement.
This article from The Lancet is especially damning on the Government's and national NHS management bungling and failures: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext
I think there's a lot of truth in that. Test, test, test. People with the virus can be isolated and contacts traced. Instead of a common sense approach based on past epidemics, the Government decided to rely on an untested computer model created by mathematicians and academics.
Becoming subservient to technology seems to be the way these days, sadly.
daktulos
02-04-20, 10:49 AM
I think there's a lot of truth in that. Test, test, test. People with the virus can be isolated and contacts traced. Instead of a common sense approach based on past epidemics, the Government decided to rely on an untested computer model created by mathematicians and academics.
Becoming subservient to technology seems to be the way these days, sadly.
I'm not convinced. Contact tracing was used initially, but there are likely hundreds of thousands of people who currently have the virus, so it's impractical, if not impossible.
The tests take 24 hours to come back, and they are in short supply. Given that you're not able to do contact tracing, there's little benefit to knowing that someone showing symptoms has the virus rather than something else a day ago.
The WHO want testing because it gives them numbers to put into their models, but really, how does it actually help? Once there's an antibody test, that's a different matter.
I'm no fan of the government, but they do appear to be following advice from the scientists.
Red Herring
02-04-20, 10:55 AM
It's interesting reading the various views around the real threat of this virus and steps being made to contain it. We would be fools to ignore the statistics coming from other countries further down the road than us but we also need to keep what they have done, and they did it, in perspective. South Korea has had one of the best successes in containing the virus, and they achieved this through contact tracing. They basically used their mobile phone network to trace anyone who had been near a confirmed case and immediately forcibly isolated them. I wonder how the population of the UK would react if they even thought the government had the ability to do that, let alone actually tried doing it...... Our freedom has a price, and we're going to pay it.
daktulos
02-04-20, 11:24 AM
South Korea has had one of the best successes in containing the virus, and they achieved this through contact tracing. They basically used their mobile phone network to trace anyone who had been near a confirmed case and immediately forcibly isolated them. I wonder how the population of the UK would react if they even thought the government had the ability to do that, let alone actually tried doing it...... Our freedom has a price, and we're going to pay it.
As you say, it's a different culture there - we'd react differently.
One thing to note is that it's not a success yet. Look again in 5 years' time to judge that. Their only option now is to stay in a permanent state of semi-lockdown until a vaccine is available.
Red Herring
02-04-20, 12:37 PM
This virus won't be beaten until it's been eradicated worldwide so until that happens you can expect some serious restrictions on travel and social movement. This is why it's important to tackle it on a global basis, there really isn't much point in us sorting the UK out and then opening our borders......
Chris_SVS
02-04-20, 12:45 PM
If we could open them for a couple days in the middle of July that would be fantastic, I can't help but think I'll not be making BPW2020 with the lads
yokohama
02-04-20, 12:58 PM
there really isn't much point in us sorting the UK out and then opening our borders......
Ours aren't closed yet as far as I'm aware, which maybe doesn't help.
My wife came home from last week after 2 weeks in Japan, self-scanned her Japanese passport through the machine at Heathrow and walked right in. She went back and asked the immigration guy if she needed a stamp but he just said they weren't bothering and waved her in. No checks, no monitoring of people coming in, no advice on self isolation.
garynortheast
02-04-20, 02:28 PM
If we could open them for a couple days in the middle of July that would be fantastic, I can't help but think I'll not be making BPW2020 with the lads
I’m going to post about this in The Border Patrol shortly Chris. There’s a distinct possibility that it may not happen at all the way things are going I’m afraid.
Chris_SVS
02-04-20, 02:36 PM
I’m going to post about this in The Border Patrol shortly Chris. There’s a distinct possibility that it may not happen at all the way things are going I’m afraid.
Bo11ocks
Red Herring
02-04-20, 02:37 PM
.....no advice on self isolation.
Did she need it? I'm assuming you have told her we are in Lockdown?
the gov and media are scaremongering as they need to due to your average moron in the street not fully understanding the servery of the situation.
we are talking about the type of people who run out panic bought toilet paper.. the reason they done this is that deep in their psyche they were/are shizzing themselves.
lets not forget things like Spanish Flu that killed 50 million people... yes 50 million in just two years.
if everyone followed a few simple rules then we could stop the spread within 6 months. but again its up to the people in the streets. thats never going to happen so the gov will introduce stricter and stricter rules till we have marshal law at which point they will start shooting people and dropping bombs.
gloves. masks and face shields are whats needed from our gov and we need them NOW.
yokohama
02-04-20, 03:28 PM
Did she need it? I'm assuming you have told her we are in Lockdown?
No need. She thinks the house is filthy after I've been in it on my own.
She'll stay in for 2 weeks cleaning everything. :D:D
Adam Ef
02-04-20, 05:53 PM
the gov and media are scaremongering as they need to due to your average moron in the street not fully understanding the servery of the situation.
I think the gov has a lot more influence over the media than we realise. If the gov tell everyone they have to stay in people don't like it and react against being told what to do. If the media scares people enough that people choose for themselves to stay home then that's people's choice and they go along with what is wanted of them.
I think the gov has a lot more influence over the media than we realise. If the gov tell everyone they have to stay in people don't like it and react against being told what to do. If the media scares people enough that people choose for themselves to stay home then that's people's choice and they go along with what is wanted of them.
Not quite sure I follow your logic: Why would the media want to do what Gov wanted (i.e. deliver a scary message to general public), just to give the Gov some protection from accusation? Where's the motivation? I don't think even modern media are that devoid of critical thought that they would simply run the presses on an unsubstantiated fear-inducing "influence" message from Gov source.
A more worrying hypothesis about the power-dynamic is that media started scaremongering so that public would clamour for "something to be done", effectively forcing Gov into action.
Maybe the reality is that it's a bit of both - media and government have a sort of symbiotic relationship at present. However, I'm sure I don't trust either of them to the point where I will comply purely on a faith basis. Some sort of credible justification is required.
... But it seems unclear if the stats are reporting people that died WITH a Covid-19 infection, of those that died OF it. ...
I think that's an important distinction that seems to be getting lost at the minute.
FWIW, I actually thought this was a reasonable article.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654
Red Herring
02-04-20, 09:29 PM
I don't necessarily believe 90% of the hype and opinion that accompanies the news however if you concentrate on just the facts and do your own basic research behind them you get a pretty clear picture of what is going on. Being married to a GP I get to see a lot of the views and opinions being expressed directly in the medical world and until a couple of weeks ago their frustration was that the media, and the public, just weren't appreciating just how bad this virus is. Now the media has caught up and you just have to look at some of the news coming out of the USA at the moment to get a picture of how nasty Colvid-19 is and what it's capable of. Anyone with any sense whatsoever wouldn't be looking for excuses to get round the current lockdown regulations, they would be looking at ways they can stay away from people and infection sites.
i wonder what the impact on the air quality has been since lockdown in places like london.
Not quite sure I follow your logic: Why would the media want to do what Gov wanted (i.e. deliver a scary message to general public), just to give the Gov some protection from accusation? Where's the motivation? I don't think even modern media are that devoid of critical thought that they would simply run the presses on an unsubstantiated fear-inducing "influence" message from Gov source.
A more worrying hypothesis about the power-dynamic is that media started scaremongering so that public would clamour for "something to be done", effectively forcing Gov into action.
Maybe the reality is that it's a bit of both - media and government have a sort of symbiotic relationship at present. However, I'm sure I don't trust either of them to the point where I will comply purely on a faith basis. Some sort of credible justification is required.
The media is never full of good news, because fear and bad news sells better . . . .
I agree, to some extent, that the media is being used to 'control by fear' and keep enforcing what the Government are saying.
If you took out the story tellers that are the media, and take out the story the Government spins and only gave people the facts, there would be a lot more calm and understanding in Society. Panic buying wouldn't have happened for a start and neither would people snitching on their neighbours for having a visitor; although they would never have knocked on their door and checked if they were ok themselves . . . .
What has now been created is essentially a Police State. How long before they start using mobile phone tracking information to really see peoples movements . . . .
Chris_SVS
18-04-20, 01:07 PM
During mass events with closed roads like the marathon or Ride London cycle sportive the figures absolutely nosedive from 99whatevers to 4whatevers (I don't actually know the unit of measurement) I would imagine something similar being the case.
I've even noticed being out cycling how much nicer the air is and I'm not in an overly built up town.
peterco
18-04-20, 03:08 PM
During mass events with closed roads like the marathon or Ride London cycle sportive the figures absolutely nosedive from 99whatevers to 4whatevers (I don't actually know the unit of measurement) I would imagine something similar being the case.
I've even noticed being out cycling how much nicer the air is and I'm not in an overly built up town.
Hope this gives you some info..http://aqicn.org/map/unitedkingdom/
Chris_SVS
18-04-20, 05:00 PM
Hope this gives you some info..http://aqicn.org/map/unitedkingdom/
Yep, ta
Dave20046
18-04-20, 07:53 PM
i wonder what the impact on the air quality has been since lockdown in places like london.
I think that often. I hope they release a report after.
munkygunn182
18-04-20, 08:29 PM
I know they've been giving approximate indications of improvements - would be interesting to see hard fact.
I know they've been giving approximate indications of improvements - would be interesting to see hard fact.
if you base it on cities in the East, it is visibly cleaner - the same as places like Los Angeles.
such things as builders merchants are slowly starting to open back up here in Kirkcaldy. as long as people stick to the distancing and they are. its been well behaved from the local population. in fact people have been pleasant. even the neds and junkies are behaving.
keith_d
04-05-20, 04:39 PM
OK, which of you was it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-52532267
punyXpress
04-05-20, 04:55 PM
So, they were sent on their way rejoicing?
They should have been promoted to pedestrian status for the duration!
PS: they probably went a couple of hundred yards from here.
OK, which of you was it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-52532267
hahahahaaaaaaa class :D
Sean_Morgan
04-05-20, 07:09 PM
OK, which of you was it...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-52532267[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Brilliant !!
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
BoltonSte
04-05-20, 07:58 PM
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.
Give a man a motorbike and he'll ride 100miles so he can have chips with his fish.
Ste
stole from another forum.
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/download/file.php?id=77580&t=1
Adam Ef
25-06-20, 08:29 PM
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbVy4YsWoAEPT-v?format=jpg&name=small
https://twitter.com/domdyer70/status/1276052400592347146/photo/3
Yep, absolutely mad that.
Red Herring
25-06-20, 09:01 PM
Have the last three months taught them nothing! I understand everyone (mostly) wanting to get the economy back up and running but surely you have to be a complete dimwit to think that means a return to the way things were.
'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.'
(George Carlin)
shiftin_gear98
26-06-20, 06:45 AM
Seeker, I like that quote. I'd go to say more than half.
Still on a positive, the world might soon have a lot less stupid people in it. I just feel sorry for all the hospital staff who'll have to try to save them.
Luckypants
26-06-20, 08:08 AM
Great quote I saw on Facebook yesterday, "...politicians don't realise the ratio of knobhead to normal..."
Dave20046
26-06-20, 09:08 AM
Insane. Apparently towns and roads we standstill due to gridlock with emergency services struggling to get anywhere at all.
Great quote I saw on Facebook yesterday, "...politicians don't realise the ratio of knobhead to normal..."
Because most of them are in the former group? :smt109
Luckypants
26-06-20, 09:19 AM
Most likely Dave, so knobhead is their normal. ](*,)
'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.'
(George Carlin)
Classic! :D
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