View Full Version : Now Germany is looking at bike noise
First it was France, now Germany:
https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/germany-looks-ban-noisy-bikes
Unless we voluntarily stop fitting loud pipes (and I know that won't happen), I predict it will be enforced within a couple of years.
Biker Biggles
20-05-20, 07:41 AM
The shape of things to come. Bikers are easy targets for populist politicians and their media hacks. Your other thread on social distancing shows some bikers flouting the rules and many more car drivers doing the same but who gets the emphasis in the article? Noise is the same. There are some noisy bikes out there but stand near any major road and the majority of the noise comes from trucks and other four+ wheelers. Even if we kept out pipes standard, which I do, this kind of legislative mindset is rampant and wont be stopping any time soon.
SV650rules
20-05-20, 08:02 AM
Tyre noise is pretty unavoidable and has improved with modern tyres, but I have to say bikers are their own worst enemy when they take off perfectly good OEM pipes that make motorbikes a lot more acceptable to general public and fit straight through cans, add to this the wannabee Marc Marquez fine weather bikers who dodge in and out of traffic and lane split at high speed and can you find a reason not to hate some bikers, who of course make it hard for us all. My B-in-L paid a lot of money for dealer to fit basically straight through pipes before he had even taken delivery and ridden the bike, even the blokes in his club ( cruisers ) told him it was way too loud ( 1300 V twin Yam you can hear his approach several streets away ). Its is more lights and better riding that saves lives, not loud pipes. I for one would not be sorry for roadside noise checks and fines.. some bikes are so far over the top they are on the other side.
Craig380
20-05-20, 08:27 AM
I for one would not be sorry for roadside noise checks and fines.. some bikes are so far over the top they are on the other side.
Agree 100%. Some bikes are far too loud. I mean, glass houses and all that but I have a Yoshi can on mine, but I leave the db killer in as it's too much for me with it out.
When I ride through our town or other urban areas, dogs rarely even look in my direction, which I'm fine with.
Chris_SVS
20-05-20, 11:09 AM
The joys of a road legal aftermarket system :)
You can't change a screen in Germany without TUV approved paperwork
SV650rules
20-05-20, 11:28 AM
The Germans always love their rules and regulations, explains why the EU is such a hotbed of regulations - most of them favouring German equipment and standards, means you have a captive market - and lets face it Germany has moulded the EU to suit itself. A clear case of losing the war but winning the peace.
Craig380
21-05-20, 07:50 AM
I wouldn't expect leaving the EU to mean any relaxation of legislative measures applied to bikers. The 250cc law, the sixteener law, and the helmet law were all introduced before we joined the EU.
SV650rules
21-05-20, 08:02 AM
I wouldn't expect leaving the EU to mean any relaxation of legislative measures applied to bikers. The 250cc law, the sixteener law, and the helmet law were all introduced before we joined the EU.
No but maybe ridiculous micro-managing of things ( which is what civil servants do when they don't have enough work, they create it ). The German thing Chris-SVS quoted about needing TUV paperwork to change a screen is a good example of regulation for regulations sake, maybe even nano managing ( is Germany a 'nano' state ).
Chris_SVS
21-05-20, 09:08 AM
I however agree with this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/03/police-seize-sports-cars-during-eurorally-race-through-germany
A lot of the "home brew" modified cars they seized were pretty much rotten underneath, cut springs, no bump stops etc etc.. Proper shady mechanics that wouldn't MOT easily in the UK
https://i.imgur.com/DDKF5D3l.png
https://i.imgur.com/yxGmreUl.png
And just some of the defects found across all cars
Wheel attachment 2nd axle on the right is defective, danger of losing the wheel
• Wheels in connection with the air suspension do not allow free movement to the fender
• Tires: clearance is insufficient with impaired driving safety at the front and rear
• Spring 1st and 2nd axis left and right distance to body parts inadequate
• Front wishbone inadmissible
• Brake hose ravaged
• Service brake system: minimum braking not achieved
• Engine leaking - with high oil loss
• Transmission leaking - Loss of oil with dripping
• Exhaust system changed
• Reversing lights without function
• Silencers are missing
• Windscreen with cracking
• Windscreen glued in the field of view
• sill extension improperly mounted
• Additional spring 2nd axle damaged left and right
• Wheel / tire assignment inadmissible
• Air filter / insert: design inadmissible
• Coupling rod 1st axis broken left and right
• Airbags are missing
• Horn without function
Adam Ef
21-05-20, 10:30 AM
I generally see German approved things as a mark of reliability (rightly or wrongly?) . The amount of crap I've bought over the years from other places or has no regulation that is just not fit for purpose is so frustrating. Working as a bicycle mechanic I've seen so much stuff fail from a multitude of name brands. The German stuff has always held up well and lasted while doing the job right.
Germany is very big on noise pollution, try cutting your grass on a Sunday and see what happens. in some places on a sunday you cant even put your washing machine on. its worse than some Isles of Scotland and they are effin bonkers.
MONEY.. DB meters on Scam Cams with fines through your letterbox.
oohhh and its also visorcrap.... that site spouts them biggest utter borlocks mosttimes.
it's spreading: https://www.visordown.com/news/general/noise-ban-top-selling-motorcycles-approved-austrian-route
Had to laugh!
The last line in the link regarding Austria goes
"One such outcome could force manufacturers to include devices that help to silence exhausts and keep them lower so as to avoid their models being caught out."
I believe they're called silencers here, or Schalldämpfer in German (literally sound damper).
They'll never catch on ………………….
SV650rules
01-06-20, 09:10 AM
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/muffler3.htm
Exhausts only work properly when the baffles are still in there, many remove them, including a few bikes around our way. I doubt a stock SV would trigger above 95dB
so I'm OK ( not that I intend to go to Tyrol anyway ).
Once again the actions of a few % who want wide open pipes are causing problems for the many who really don't want to ride around sounding like a mobile crow scarer.
I am still surprised MOT does not check noise in both cars and bikes, I know some people put baffles back in for MOT, but some don't and they still seem to pass.
Dave20046
01-06-20, 09:28 AM
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/muffler3.htm
Exhausts only work properly when the baffles are still in there, many remove them, including a few bikes around our way. I doubt a stock SV would trigger above 95dB
so I'm OK ( not that I intend to go to Tyrol anyway ).
Once again the actions of a few % who want wide open pipes are causing problems for the many who really don't want to ride around sounding like a mobile crow scarer.
I am still surprised MOT does not check noise in both cars and bikes, I know some people put baffles back in for MOT, but some don't and they still seem to pass.
True but providing the exhaust was designed to use a baffle (or probably better to say sound damper/db killer...a removable piece, not the baffling built in to the can which some loons remove). Some exhaust systems are designed very well, but then they include an optional db killer so that they can comply with regulations and sell to a broader market if you put it in it will actually run worse (but quieter).
A stock SV exhaust will not be near 95db so you're save
MOT testers do have 'some' obligation to prevent stupid exhausts, I forget the exact terminology but it appears to be open to interpretation/not a defined value as they seem to be able to use their discretion
Craig380
01-06-20, 02:31 PM
On my AL7, there's a sticker which states the noise level of the standard can at 4,500rpm is 77dB!
SV650rules
02-06-20, 10:08 AM
Comparing dB levels, every 10dB doubles the noise level, so 95 is 4x as loud as 77. 95 would not be allowed in a workplace, 77 is quieter than your vacuum cleaner.
https://decibelcar.com/decibel-equivalent-table-whats-how-loud/
Adam Ef
02-06-20, 12:24 PM
GSXR with stock exhaust is above noise level for Castle Combe. So are quite a few other bikes stock.
Dave20046
02-06-20, 12:45 PM
GSXR with stock exhaust is above noise level for Castle Combe. So are quite a few other bikes stock.
I was about to say their limit is only 87db but I've just reread the article and it says 80db!
This can only be a push for electric bikes.
Red Herring
02-06-20, 07:51 PM
My SV kept tripping the noise meter located at the beginning of the pit wall at Brands, especially in the rain. It baffled (good pun...) the testers there for a while as they black flagged me several times believing I had taken the baffle out since they had tested me, only to find it still in place! We eventually worked out that with a K&N filter, no snorkel and the front of the tank on 10mm risers it was the intake making the noise, especially in damp more dense air. I've just adapted my line away from the wall there now and have no further issues.
I was having a chat with a police biker about this at a bike meet recently and his take on it was this ... loud pipes are all well n good but they can at times be ott, in built up areas they attract more complaints (obviously) and as a result the inevitable investigations have to take place. The fact that the can may have a BS approved stamp on it is no excuse for noise pollution, therefore the makers will have to comply with whatever noise law gets passed. I said ... don't loud pipes alert the public well in advance as to their whereabouts? He replied ...yes but it's an antisocial kind of noise, the riders will just have to use their horns a bit more to alert other road users and pedestrians etc:! So I said... oh , so it's back to noise pollution of a different kind then!? He then got boredom with this topic, made a lame excuse and left.. go figure.
SV650rules
24-07-20, 07:17 PM
This whole debate will happen again with electric bikes and cars.. where artificial noise will be required. IMHO good lights are the real key to safer biking, and having them on in daytime. As well as extra lights up front I have also fitted a auxiliary custom dynamics brake light which flashes 5 times when brake first applied and then goes steady.. should alert sleepy cagers I am slowing down.
Just thought I'd add ... I have a 99 curvy, zero performance mods except for a full length stainless Delkevic oval end can, it sounds no different (and I mean ... NO different) whether the baffle is in or out! Having said that, I personally don't think it's particularly loud anyway. When riding through my local residential area I tend to watch people's reaction to my bike passing and tbh... not many (if any) peeps even look. As I am biased I think the deep bellow of a Vtwin is far nicer than a four pot doing 60 million rpm in first.
Adam Ef
26-07-20, 07:18 AM
Most people would rather have Brian Blessed shout at them than Axl Rose.
They'd probably rather not be shouted at at all, but if they had to choose.
SV650rules
26-07-20, 08:53 AM
Just thought I'd add ... I have a 99 curvy, zero performance mods except for a full length stainless Delkevic oval end can, it sounds no different (and I mean ... NO different) whether the baffle is in or out! Having said that, I personally don't think it's particularly loud anyway. When riding through my local residential area I tend to watch people's reaction to my bike passing and tbh... not many (if any) peeps even look. As I am biased I think the deep bellow of a Vtwin is far nicer than a four pot doing 60 million rpm in first.
Noise is noise is noise.......... most non-bikers do not appreciate exhaust noise whether V twin or IL4. I used to work with a bloke who had a Aprillia 1000cc V twin with race pipes ( had it embossed on them 'not for road use' ) and worked shifts, so at 5 am and after 11pm his neighbours were subject to his bike starting up or arriving outside their ( till then ) peaceful houses ( and probably waking kids and adults up ) - he could not understand why neighbours did not talk to him...... talk about inconsiderate and selfish.. My B-I-L has a Yamaha Nightstar 1300 cruiser, took the OEM cans taken off and basically straight through pipes fitted, even his cruiser mates are shocked by how loud it is, can hear him coming 1/2 a mile away...
Adam Ef
26-07-20, 10:56 AM
I can realate. Having my head torn off by the Harley guys that go past our shop a few times a day while trying to talk to customers isn't ideal.
My neighbour also gives me endless grief about a guy a few houses away who is always working on his 2 stroke bike and revving it for half an hour a time while he does. She's obviously too scared to approach him about it so I get general cloaked comments about "bikers" every time I roll a bike out to commute... which I leave on as soon as it's started and don't rev it until out on the main roads anyway, and even then I have baffles in or stock / quieter exhausts when possible. I find loud exhausts exhausting (#Dadjoke intended) when riding longer distances nowadays. Also promotes unwanted reactions from boy racers when they notice you at lights etc and immediatley want to race and buzz around you.
I do like a nice exaust note and always found the SV to be a pleasing rumble. But even as someone who rides I find some bike sounds ridiculous and sometimes annoying.
redtrummy
26-07-20, 01:13 PM
Loud exhausts are anti social full stop. Living next to a main road you soon tire to the sound of a screaming 2 stroke or a baffleless anything for that matter!
Chris_SVS
27-07-20, 08:58 PM
Loud pipes save lives :smt068:smt068
Adam Ef
28-07-20, 03:26 PM
Loud parps save lives :smt068:smt068
ftfy
---- you can definitely have a room on your own when we get the Barmouth BPW happening again in the future!
Chris_SVS
28-07-20, 04:35 PM
ftfy
---- you can definitely have a room on your own when we get the Barmouth BPW happening again in the future!
Great :D:D:D
Just thought I'd add ... I have a 99 curvy, zero performance mods except for a full length stainless Delkevic oval end can, it sounds no different (and I mean ... NO different) whether the baffle is in or out! Having said that, I personally don't think it's particularly loud anyway. When riding through my local residential area I tend to watch people's reaction to my bike passing and tbh... not many (if any) peeps even look. As I am biased I think the deep bellow of a Vtwin is far nicer than a four pot doing 60 million rpm in first.
I 2nd that on both counts, my Delkevic sounds just nice with no baffle in, and no different with the baffle out. The only glances I get are from other bikers as I go by.
Dave20046
25-08-20, 09:24 AM
I 2nd that on both counts, my Delkevic sounds just nice with no baffle in, and no different with the baffle out. The only glances I get are from other bikers as I go by.
Did you just agree with yourself Gadget? :lol:
SV650rules
25-08-20, 11:57 AM
Non motorbike riders ( by far the majority of the population ) do not like the sound of any loud exhaust, and by riding with a non-stock exhaust you will just hasten the day when any exhaust over 85db will be illegal......
When talking to non bikers the word 'motorbike' is always prefaced by 'loud' or 'noisy' - they can't tell the nuances of a stainless delkevic oval end can against any other aftermarket can. Just like in most things a minority get the majority a bad name ( except with lawyers, where it is 95% who get the remaining 5% a bad name )..
Can't even say 'tarred with the same brush' any more ( or sing the words to 'Rule Britannia it seems if the latest BBC proms is anything to go by ).
Did you just agree with yourself Gadget? :lol:
Hahaaaa, ooops, yeah... I think I had a senior moment there, well spotted. but statement still stands.
Just to add though ... my bike is mechanically standard, save for a stainless oval Delkevic end can, sounds nice tbh imo. I wonder how I will fair when and if pulled by the police, my end can a has the BS stamp from the Manufacturers stating it is fit for road use and for purpose, surely the makers are obliged to abide by the noise regulations set out by our government!?
Dave20046
25-08-20, 07:51 PM
Well I third it, or is that second?
This whole thing irks me a little, as a non biker (child) I accepted 'motorbikes are a bit louder' more powerful cars are 'a bit louder' - I didn't just hate things that I didn't partake in because they were outside of my world but I understand a lot of people are like this.
There a noise regulations on house holds but should they stop selling speakers because some people cause a nuisance with music? Not quite equivalent, but almost.
I don't think (or hope they won't) just 'come for us all', they did a similar thing with two strokes a bit back ; they phased out manufacture but the threat of taking all ones already in existance off people never became a reality.
I think they will more likely design and manufacture bikes that are quieter (electric) and we'll forget about all this... petrol heads will continue to ride petrol things until they die in a couple of decades and other will ride silent electric brooms.
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