View Full Version : Cyclists riding 2 abreast on busy country roads
Dave20046
01-06-20, 05:38 PM
I'm now curious as to the general view of the org on this after a comment elsewhere about very slow cyclists two abreast was not well received. Not a place to slag off cyclists in general (apart from the minority that do this! :dwarf:).
Specific example that I regularly encounter on windy narrow peak district roads:
A pair of cyclists travelling side by side discussing Bradley Wiggins latest pubic wig, they are travelling approx 22mph round a left hand bend in a NSL B Road on the incline, there are solid whites.
Please could a modgod add poll options:
- Absolutely fine. Good road practice says you should be able to stop on the road you can see... everyone including new drivers and boyracers should be abiding by this - their fault if not.
- Inconsiderate. They're going to get wiped out and/or probably hurt others, bad drivers will have to slam on the brakes or veer into oncoming traffic.
-keth d . Everyone dies.
DarrenSV650S
01-06-20, 05:57 PM
I rarely cycle these days but I tend to stick to cycle paths and pavements. Screw riding on the roads! Way too dangerous for me. Even in 30mph zones.
Double cyclists is inconsiderate IMO purely because of how slow they are. Obviously I always try to overtake in the other lane in ideal circumstances, even when on a motorcycle. But like you say, people and conditions aren't always perfect.
If double cyclists are ok, then so is a group of people walking side by side down a pavement-less country road.
I'm now curious as to the general view of the org on this after a comment elsewhere about very slow cyclists two abreast was not well received. Not a place to slag off cyclists in general (apart from the minority that do this! :dwarf:).
Specific example that I regularly encounter on windy narrow peak district roads:
A pair of cyclists travelling side by side discussing Bradley Wiggins latest pubic wig, they are travelling approx 22mph round a left hand bend in a NSL B Road on the incline, there are solid whites.
I am in 2 camps on this, if it was a straight road with lots of visibility, it's not great but equally there is the space and visibility to overtake - but on a corner/incline it is unsafe (mainly for the cyclist) to assume vehicles travelling from behind will see them and react in time. To some extent it is a safety thing, if there's 2 of you no one can squeeze past . . .
It's legal to over take non-powered vehicles on a solid white line.
Highway code extract:
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 06:54 PM
Specific example that I regularly encounter on windy narrow peak district roads:
A pair of cyclists travelling side by side discussing Bradley Wiggins latest pubic wig, they are travelling approx 22mph round a left hand bend in a NSL B Road on the incline, there are solid whites.
Non issue for the cycling portion of the example, the solid whites are there for a reason, usually signposted.
But let me reverse the example, you're approaching the bend, signage indicates a sharp deviation to the left and is backed up with solid whites in both directions. The riders** are further through the bend than your vision, have you slowed and selected an appropriate gear?
**The example is cyclists but the "conflict" you're barrelling into at 60mph could be anything from a tractor exiting a field, to horses, to a previous RTC.
why do minority's think that they have all the rights. personally i dont mind them riding two abreast as it makes it easier to overtake them but its the furkin attitude of the LARGE majority of the lycra clad asswipes that gets my hackles up. read the highway code curnts, as a road user its your responsibility to look out for other road users not the other way round. YOUR NOT ALLOWED to ride on the pavements unless there is a cycle way but the furkers do it as they think the law does not apply.
if i was to ride my motorbike on public pathways i would be banned so what gives cyclists the right.
i'm sick to the back teeth of MINORITY'S having all the rights. be this gay, black, religious or please 'insert here'. while the rest of us have to suffer as it hurts your feelings... boohooo...
there is no poll for shoot the curnts.
... to assume vehicles travelling from behind will see them and react in time.
For the record, I generally agree with your comment, but on the flip side for this detail, isn't it considered poor driving not to be able to stop in the space you can see?
To some extent it is a safety thing, if there's 2 of you no one can squeeze past . . .
Agreed, taking primary position (usually towards the middle of the carriageway) to discourage squeezing is common with advanced cyclists (and appropriate IMHO).
It's legal to over take non-powered vehicles on a solid white line.
Highway code extract:
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
Is it always legal? Does the "if they are travelling at 10 mph or less" apply to all the previously listed types of transport, or just "road maintenance vehicle"? On the flat, I comfortably cycle faster than that, so overtaking me by crossing a white line could be interpreted as illegal.
On the whole, tolerance amongst all users is best. If you're likely to be in the way two abreast then re-form to single (especially if that creates space for a motorcyclist to ride past safely without crossing the white line. Conversely, cycles have just as much right to be there so don't try to force past with an unsafe overtake. Wait a bit, is the 30sec or so saved by an impatient overtake really that important? How would you feel if an HGV was violating your space when on the motorbike?
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 07:18 PM
why do minority's think that they have all the rights. personally i dont mind them riding two abreast as it makes it easier to overtake them but its the furkin attitude of the LARGE majority of the lycra clad asswipes that gets my hackles up. read the highway code curnts, as a road user its your responsibility to look out for other road users not the other way round. YOUR NOT ALLOWED to ride on the pavements unless there is a cycle way but the furkers do it as they think the law does not apply.
if i was to ride my motorbike on public pathways i would be banned so what gives cyclists the right.
i'm sick to the back teeth of MINORITY'S having all the rights. be this gay, black, religious or please 'insert here'. while the rest of us have to suffer as it hurts your feelings... boohooo...
there is no poll for shoot the curnts.
Because the minorities do have rights and have done since the 1800s, motoring and holding a licence is a privilege, one that can be revoked.
Just wondering though, why should I be shot for someone elses actions?
shiftin_gear98
01-06-20, 07:20 PM
I love a pushbike, so much so I spent 8 years of my life working with them. However some cyclists like some people are ****tards. Whether they are on a bike or not.
I don't agree with riding two abreast on twisty country roads, not something I would do or recommend. Some of the NSL roads I commute on are not the place for a chat.
But everyone is entitled to use the roads, hopefully they don't get killed doing it. Its the clueless ones that have dusted off their 10 year old steeds due to Covid that scare me the most rather than the lycra clad clan.
... YOUR NOT ALLOWED to ride on the pavements unless there is a cycle way but the furkers do it as they think the law does not apply.
As it happens this gets my goat too.
Sadly there's a large proportion of the motorised population that think that cyclists should be off the road and often behave as though we should be out of the way, putting our lives at risk in the process - we all know being o two wheels is vulnerable. Yet, guess what, cycles were commonplace on the roads before motor vehicles, so why shouldn't we get priority?!:rolleyes:
Sometimes, the only way to respond is to go to the opposite extreme. Sad but true. More likely, like all sizeable groups, there's a small minority of inconsiderates that sets a tone that spoils it for the reasonably well behaved majority.
In a similar vein, I also get pee'd off with riders with ear bleedin' race cans who think the only way to ride is like you're on the TT or doing a lap of the local race circuit, even in built up areas. Ridin' like the law doesn't apply!;)
Because the minorities do have rights and have done since the 1800s, motoring and holding a licence is a privilege, one that can be revoked.
yes but so do the majority so what makes the minority think they have more.. its like voting, the majority wins.
there is no licence to ride a pushbike but due to this lycra clad asswipes think the highway code does not apply to them. ermm yes it does. and when they make mistakes they blame it on everyone else but themselves. its this attitude that really ****es me off. BTW its the same for bikers who crash their bike due to them making mistakes.. asswipes.
if a cyclist was to cut right in front of me when i'm driving my car I GET THE BLAME and possibly loosing my licence for them not paying attention. never mind the uninsured damage to my car.
the large majority of lycra clad cyclists are asswipes who think they have are gods given. this is through experience of the attitude when telling them they are in the wrong. no sorry just usually a furk off.
As it happens this gets my goat too.
Sadly there's a large proportion of the motorised population that think that cyclists should be off the road
i dont think they should be off the road i think they should be more aware and courteous. FTR i have nothing against cyclists.
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 07:43 PM
yes but so do the majority so what makes the minority think they have more.. its like voting, the majority wins.
there is no licence to ride a pushbike but due to this lycra clad asswipes think the highway code does not apply to them. ermm yes it does. and when they make mistakes they blame it on everyone else but themselves. its this attitude that really ****es me off. BTW its the same for bikers who crash their bike due to them making mistakes.. asswipes.
if a cyclist was to cut right in front of me when i'm driving my car I GET THE BLAME and possibly loosing my licence for them not paying attention. never mind the uninsured damage to my car.
the large majority of lycra clad cyclists are asswipes who think they have are gods given. this is through experience of the attitude when telling them they are in the wrong. no sorry just usually a furk off.
I don't know any cyclists who think anything of the sort. All of the adults are also drivers, some like me also motorcyclists.
Gotta love some irrational bitterness though.. You're doing a sterling job.
so how come ever single one of the lycra clad cyclists i have told them they are in the wrong give the finger?
maybe the attitude in Ireland is different but the large majority of tour de frogs lycra clad wannabe's i have met bar the odd few have had a serious furking attitude toward other road users even though most of them drive their car to then go cycling which always amuses me.
i dont have any time of day for 'bubble' people.
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 07:58 PM
so how come ever single one of the lycra clad cyclists i have told them they are in the wrong give the finger?
maybe the attitude in Ireland is different but the large majority of tour de frogs lycra clad wannabe's i have met bar the odd few have had a serious furking attitude toward other road users even though most of them drive their car to then go cycling which always amuses me.
i dont have any time of day for 'bubble' people.
From what I've seen in the past few posts, your own ****ty attitude is quite likely the reason they flip you the digit.
Why do you emphasise the clothing material so much?
From what I've seen in the past few posts, your own ****ty attitude is quite likely the reason they flip you the digit.
Why do you emphasise the clothing material so much?
people dont like to be told they are wrong.. it takes a better person to admit they are in the wrong.
i dont have shizzy attitude. ask pretty much any orger that has met me.
i would like to think i have a pretty good attitude towards my fellow humans. as i said i dont like people that wont take the blame for their mistakes as i will be the first to put my hand up if i'm in the wrong so i expect it from others.
Dave20046
01-06-20, 08:12 PM
Oooh poll is 50/50 =D>
Being surrounded by cyclists at home and knowing their view on this I was surprised so many think differently.
Non issue for the cycling portion of the example, the solid whites are there for a reason, usually signposted.
But let me reverse the example, you're approaching the bend, signage indicates a sharp deviation to the left and is backed up with solid whites in both directions. The riders** are further through the bend than your vision, have you slowed and selected an appropriate gear?
**The example is cyclists but the "conflict" you're barrelling into at 60mph could be anything from a tractor exiting a field, to horses, to a previous RTC.
As mentioned in the question; I appreciate we are all taught not to blindly run into situations, however those with lower hazard perception or those who just don't care will and do, do this. Not to mention horses/tractors etc are like that by design/necessity and a cyclist chooses to cycle next to their mate to increase their slow moving mass for no reason I can comprehend.
I think you think my grievance with this scenario is that I am travelling in the same direction as the cyclists and am upset that I have to apply my brakes, it is not - i'm concerned about the number of times I've had to deviate my path sharply because cars (and lorries!) avoiding cyclists doing this have swerved dangerously into my lane.
And before you say, adjust your road positioning from the crest when rounding blind bends - I do. But couple the above bad driving arising from a needless (imo) situation with a new rider and you get something like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVE79XT8-Mg). Or a car that has no where to move in fact.
In my mind it's a bit like riding your motorbike and turning right and taking a central or left positioning for the turn and stopping traffic. You CAN do it but you really shouldn't increase your chance of a rear shunt like that. Or even simply, if you didn't HAVE to wear a helmet you can express your right USA style all you like but I probably wouldn't do it and it's a terrible mess for everyone to clean up.
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 08:12 PM
You've repeatedly referred to cyclists as asswipes, kurnts, furkers and suggested they should be shot.
you forgot the lycra.... most everyday cyclists are fine. its the tour de frog wanabeezzz that are the biggest problem. we are plagued with them every summer in the borders, they even get the privilege of having roads closed for their little bum chum get togethers. why should they get special privileges when the rest of the public cant.
Dave20046
01-06-20, 08:19 PM
I'll vouch for Bibio's frank approach but deep down loveliness. He's pretty balanced but will tell you when you;re being a p**** and most times he's done that to me he's proved to be wiser - and I'm not sure saying that because he's definitely right on this matter. :smt040:takeabow: Although not seen him since before the big operation so they could have removed some vital parts.
Re. lycra - for me it's just banter , the same as when I'm talking about myself on a motorbike I'll refer to leather clad gimpyness . For me it's intended to lighten the atmosphere - appreciate it may not come off that way on the net!
Oooh poll is 50/50 =D>
Being surrounded by cyclists at home and knowing their view on this I was surprised so many think differently.
not voted yet.. lol
Dave20046
01-06-20, 08:20 PM
and suggested they should be shot.
Ooops, might retract my vouching on that particular one :smt028
...did he say what with?
i would like to say absolutely fine but dont hold traffic up... where is the option... lol
ooohhh and shoot lycra clads..
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 08:21 PM
Oooh poll is 50/50 =D>
I think you think my grievance with this scenario is that I am travelling in the same direction as the cyclists and am upset that I have to apply my brakes, it is not - i'm concerned about the number of times I've had to deviate my path sharply because cars (and lorries!) avoiding cyclists doing this have swerved dangerously into my lane.
And before you say, adjust your road positioning from the crest when rounding blind bends - I do. But couple the above bad driving arising from a needless (imo) situation with a new rider and you get something like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVE79XT8-Mg). Or a car that has no where to move in fact.
No I don't.
It is not the fault of the cyclists/horse riders/tractor driver if another driver or rider chooses to overtake when it isn't safe. Much like the R1 rider I commented on yesterday in the Gripe thread, I did not blame the driver that was being overtaken.
Number abreast doesn't change this.
Dave20046
01-06-20, 08:24 PM
I am in 2 camps on this, if it was a straight road with lots of visibility, it's not great but equally there is the space and visibility to overtake - but on a corner/incline it is unsafe (mainly for the cyclist) to assume vehicles travelling from behind will see them and react in time. To some extent it is a safety thing, if there's 2 of you no one can squeeze past . . .
It's legal to over take non-powered vehicles on a solid white line.
Highway code extract:
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
Yeah it's not the straights that get me, you clock the cyclist ahead and if you see a car coming up behind the flock you know what they're going to do (because the motorcyclist is smaller!)... iit's when it's out of the blue several times an hour and in my head completely needless. Clocked the doublewhites , but they're going marginally faster than the permitted overtake on my example - it's more just to demonstrate the nature of the bend (toight and blind)
as with other asswipes i have no time for Rossi wanabeezzz either. i hate to say this on a bike forum but a large majority of bikers have a serious attitude. not the folk on this forum though who are solid minded individuals.
i like to ride fast i have no qualms admitting that but only when i know it safe to do so. unlike the power rangers.
Dave20046
01-06-20, 08:30 PM
No I don't.
It is not the fault of the cyclists/horse riders/tractor driver if another driver or rider chooses to overtake when it isn't safe. Much like the R1 rider I commented on yesterday in the Gripe thread, I did not blame the driver that was being overtaken.
Number abreast doesn't change this.
hmm
But is it the fault of the cyclist? The one who chooses to make themselves that difficult to pass knowing how slow they are going? The tractors on the road out of necessity, none are doing that for fun I bet if you ask any they'd say they'd prefer to be able to move faster safely or halve their footprint.
I remember having a similar debate with a forum member on a ride out , I was adamant a car shouldn't do something and was uoting the highway code- in the end he said yeah technically you're right but there's no point being right and dead. That always stuck with me, you're actually more right if you see the bigger picture and do what's safer for everyone.
Although in this scenario the cyclists are wrong and dead....
Dave20046
01-06-20, 08:32 PM
I'd also argue number abreast does change it. If it's one people can (if needed) pass pretty safely while still giving the cyclist 1.5m. 2 a breast means the only option is brake or compromise the other lane. What do you think to 3 a breast?
they should all bunch together.. domino effect applies more.
i actually prefer them to bunch up when i'm on the bike as i can overtake quicker. its the mongs in cars who are shizzing themselves who are the problem.
lycra clad group + old folks = queue. i see it all the time.
whats wrong with cyclist groups pulling over when they know there is a large queue forming behind them... jezz even caravan towers have this courtesy.
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 08:57 PM
hmm
But is it the fault of the cyclist? The one who chooses to make themselves that difficult to pass knowing how slow they are going? The tractors on the road out of necessity, none are doing that for fun I bet if you ask any they'd say they'd prefer to be able to move faster safely or halve their footprint.
I remember having a similar debate with a forum member on a ride out , I was adamant a car shouldn't do something and was uoting the highway code- in the end he said yeah technically you're right but there's no point being right and dead. That always stuck with me, you're actually more right if you see the bigger picture and do what's safer for everyone.
Although in this scenario the cyclists are wrong and dead....
No. Defensive riding (solo or abreast) is done for a reason, to discourage overtakes when unsafe, and to make actual overtakes shorter - thus easier for the overtaking vehicle. Good example of this is approaching pinch points like pedestrian islands, I will move purposely to centre of the lane to prevent being squeezed. Rewatch my video from yesterday, had there been oncoming traffic I would have been positioned differently.
The secondary reason for abreast riding is sharing of the work, a group is constantly rotating anticlockwise around itself. Doing so 3 abreast is not illegal, but simply isn't practical.
The fact that some drivers (and riders - referring back to R1 rider) respond to this with aggressive and poorly thought overtakes is really the fault of the training and licencing system, perhaps just total lack of giving a sheite.
No. Defensive riding (solo or abreast) is done for a reason, to discourage overtakes when unsafe, and to make actual overtakes shorter - thus easier for the overtaking vehicle. Good example of this is approaching pinch points like pedestrian islands, I will move purposely to centre of the lane to prevent being squeezed.
now that just pizzes of car drivers. i ride Defensibly on the bike but more to show my visibility. if you done that to me i give you a mouthful. who the fuk taught you to do that..
most drivers give cyclists a wide berth and we are not to bothered by cyclists until said cyclist starts pulling stunts like that.
Dave20046
01-06-20, 09:20 PM
whats wrong with cyclist groups pulling over when they know there is a large queue forming behind them... jezz even caravan towers have this courtesy.
Pretty sure that bit is in the highway code!Agreed
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 09:25 PM
^It is not
Dave20046
01-06-20, 09:26 PM
No. Defensive riding (solo or abreast) is done for a reason, to discourage overtakes when unsafe, and to make actual overtakes shorter - thus easier for the overtaking vehicle. Good example of this is approaching pinch points like pedestrian islands, I will move purposely to centre of the lane to prevent being squeezed. Rewatch my video from yesterday, had there been oncoming traffic I would have been positioned differently.
The secondary reason for abreast riding is sharing of the work, a group is constantly rotating anticlockwise around itself. Doing so 3 abreast is not illegal, but simply isn't practical.
The fact that some drivers (and riders - referring back to R1 rider) respond to this with aggressive and poorly thought overtakes is really the fault of the training and licencing system, perhaps just total lack of giving a sheite.
That one I don't mind (on your own), you're in control and can move into the space you created if really needed. You couldn't do that with another cyclist up your inside. It gives you more presence.
I don't buy the abreast as a defensive manouvre though, maybe in a large large group so there's less distance foir overtakers to pass but I don't think causing a massive obstruction should be used in any 'strategy'.
Dave20046
01-06-20, 09:28 PM
^It is not
**** me I just googled it.
I don't think you'll like the result.
OK not technically 'illegal' but illadvised is the below:
Rule 66 of the Highway Code states that cyclists “should never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends”.
In addition, rule 68 says cyclists “MUST NOT ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner”.
And not forgetting
169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 09:30 PM
**** me I just googled it.
I don't think you'll like the result.
Go on
Chris_SVS
01-06-20, 09:31 PM
That one I don't mind (on your own), you're in control and can move into the space you created if really needed. You couldn't do that with another cyclist up your inside. It gives you more presence.
I don't buy the abreast as a defensive manouvre though, maybe in a large large group so there's less distance foir overtakers to pass but I don't think causing a massive obstruction should be used in any 'strategy'.
Two abreast riders and/or groups quite easily adjust road position.
ps: 169 refers to driving, not cyclists.
ps: cyclists are traffic
ps: 66 is advice and as I have already said, riding 3 abreast has no practical purpose.
Dave20046
01-06-20, 09:33 PM
Go on
Editted above.
It helps my sanity. Perhaps doesn't completely settle the debate but settles my mind.
i dont think they should be off the road i think they should be more aware and courteous. FTR i have nothing against cyclists.
My statement on that wasn't aimed at you. Apologies for my lack of clarity.
i dont have shizzy attitude. ask pretty much any orger that has met me.
I now we haven't met but from experience on this forum I would agree. This thread though is the most extreme presentation of opinion from you that I have seen. Thankfully I know it's not typical of your general approach.
ooohhh and shoot lycra clads..
Bang, I'm dead. :smt072
Lycra is comfortable for pedalling. But I don't wear skin tight tops or replica kit - that is unnecessary for recreation!
as with other asswipes i have no time for Rossi wanabeezzz either. i hate to say this on a bike forum but a large majority of bikers have a serious attitude. not the folk on this forum though who are solid minded individuals.
i like to ride fast i have no qualms admitting that but only when i know it safe to do so. unlike the power rangers.
+1, wholeheartedly! As mentioned in my earlier post.
now that just pizzes of car drivers. i ride Defensibly on the bike but more to show my visibility. if you done that to me i give you a mouthful. who the fuk taught you to do that..
most drivers give cyclists a wide berth and we are not to bothered by cyclists until said cyclist starts pulling stunts like that.
It's called primary position and,like it or not, is part of mainstream cycle training nowadays, e.g. see Bikeability, the DfT sponsored national training programme (https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/cycletraining/article/ct20110110-cycletraining-Bitesize-Bikeability--Part-4--On-Road-Positioning-0)
Sadly my experience (c.10 year all year cycle commuting, including along single carriageway NSL) is that most car drivers don't give cyclists a wide enough berth, many are pushy, inconsiderate and short sighted, to say the least, so there has to be some attempt to influence them by adopting road positioning that discourages or prevents poor manoeuvres. (Thankfully only one car lost its wing mirror because it hit my handlebar end as it tried to rush past me but there were many more that felt almost as close, it was a routine experience. I was much less concerned by HGV drivers, usually far more observant and considerate. And if traffic was heavy both ways then I would regularly pull over to let those behind me flow past again.)
21QUEST
01-06-20, 11:48 PM
I'm a 10000% with Chris_SVS
Reading quite a few of the posts, it's not a surprise, cyclist would choose to ride two abreast.
I've never really had a problem with cyclist...singly, two abreast or whatever permutation...
I tend to think, people who have that much of an issue
with cyclist, either need to get additional driver/rider training or just chill the feck out... excuse my French
To be frank, I tend to ride shutgun for cyclists, having seen how impatient and stupid a lot of drivers can be....putting themselves or worse, the cyclist, in harms way.
fek me this thread has braught them out the woodwork.. howdo quest..
ohh and your taught to ride in the middle of your side of the road in the motorbike training/test but it dont make it the right thing to do.. any experienced rider will tell you its the wrong thing to do.
anyway i think we should ban all pushbikes....
daktulos
02-06-20, 05:55 AM
Wow! Where did this thread come from?
If double cyclists are ok, then so is a group of people walking side by side down a pavement-less country road.
Speaking as someone who has marshalled road-races without closed roads, thi can happen. Don't forget, pedestrians are road-users, too. I've also had to come to a near stop on a dual-carriageway as a pedestrian was crossing the exit and didn't rush.
Motor vehicles don't have priority, in the UK at least.
It's legal to over take non-powered vehicles on a solid white line.
Only if it's going slower than 10mph (which is very rare) and it's not hatched.
I had a 30 mile trip a couple of weeks ago, and hooted two drivers who overtook cycles while I was coming the other way. Maybe they thought I'd give way for them, or maybe they were going to pass the cycle too close, but they may not have seen me, too. They were both passing single cycles.
My opinion is that I'd rather overtake bunched up cycles than a long row of them, particularly if they're spaced out enough (but not enough to pass each individually). It's almost never possible to safely pass a cycle without crossing into the incoming lane, so two abreast makes no practical difference ....
... unless it's a risky overtake and you want a bit of room to squeeze into if there's oncoming traffic.
It's when you come across a bunch of half a dozen cyclists that think they are partaking in the Tour de France and believe it is only they that have any right to be on the road that pees me off.
My son used to work at a country pub and I used to take him to work. One Sunday morning I came across said bunch of tw*ts.
Three miles I had to sit behind these burks because not one of them, even when slowing down to near walking pace up hills, had the decency to allow traffic by. Pretty sure the Highway Code says slow moving traffic should pull over to let other road uses pass, while not practical for bicyclists to do so on moderately busy roads, taking up the whole carriageway for three miles with no regard to others is in my opinion selfish and doesn't help their cause.
Craig380
02-06-20, 08:33 AM
As an ex-cyclist myself, I look at it this way: there are considerate cyclists and there are @rseholes, just as there are considerate bikers, and @rseholes that give bikers a bad name.
And for a bit of perspective, this happened last night 400 yards from where a mate of mine lives: https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/18489877.two-cyclists-killed-hit-car-wycombe/
shiftin_gear98
02-06-20, 08:47 AM
^ That's pretty sad.
It'd be interesting to see who was to blame in the above incident.
Thoughts to the families.
Gut feeling - Numpty in the Golf.
Dave20046
02-06-20, 09:41 AM
As an ex-cyclist myself, I look at it this way: there are considerate cyclists and there are @rseholes, just as there are considerate bikers, and @rseholes that give bikers a bad name.
That's sort of what I'm trying to determine from this thread. I thought it was a minority of @rseholes who rode two up round busy bends, looking at the poll it's a bit under half of people who disagree (100% of cyclists?) ...at that ratio there must be something in it.
Every angle I look at it it looks a daft thing to do, the highway code even advises not to do it . I still wouldn't personally put myself in harms way to do it, however through discussion we have gone from 'we do it because it's our right' to 'we do it because it's safer', which is definitely preferable I just find it hard to understand, though I've not ridden on the road for over 10 years. On safety; I can only see the result of doing it a way of limiting the number of minor brushes and close overtakes but increasing the chance of a mega wipeout.
And for a bit of perspective, this happened last night 400 yards from where a mate of mine lives: https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/18489877.two-cyclists-killed-hit-car-wycombe/
That's sad, less of this please.
It's definitely been more noticeable since covid, I'm guessing more bikes out despite there being less traffic ,if the trend continues or even just if the amount of trafic increases ,which it will, I think the roads need redesigning to include cycle lanes (although that's possibly another controversial opinion). I cycle when I'm in European cities with cycles lanes and it's great, I would not do it on the UK roads.
daktulos
02-06-20, 02:00 PM
Every angle I look at it it looks a daft thing to do, the highway code even advises not to do it . I still wouldn't personally put myself in harms way to do it, however through discussion we have gone from 'we do it because it's our right' to 'we do it because it's safer', which is definitely preferable I just find it hard to understand, though I've not ridden on the road for over 10 years. On safety; I can only see the result of doing it a way of limiting the number of minor brushes and close overtakes but increasing the chance of a mega wipeout.
I've not read a cycle on the road for years, and never ridden two-abreast, but I have friends in clubs who do (they have to do induction rides to learn how to do it) and I've seen some horrendous overtakes.
If you're cycling by yourself, particularly near to the kerb, it's an invitation for a close pass. Riding to the right of the lane is safer as cars will need to take account of oncoming traffic when overtaking (i.e. consider their own safety). It's exactly the same reason we don't ride a motorcycle in the gutter.
Once you're over to the centre of the road, two-abreast makes sense as it means the length of the overtake is shorter, you're more visible, and less likely to be intimidated. There are places when it's not appropriate, but then they're the same places where cars shouldn't be attempting an overtake anyway.
Everyone just needs to relax more and be kinder to each other.
Chris_SVS
02-06-20, 02:13 PM
https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/18489877.two-cyclists-killed-hit-car-wycombe/?fbclid=IwAR2_ccAHd9CKN8rN71IcPwoTxLXP402wPtrq28h8 WZ0bdqdRx1_Md_96feY
DarrenSV650S
02-06-20, 02:13 PM
Speaking as someone who has marshalled road-races without closed roads, thi can happen. Don't forget, pedestrians are road-users, too. I've also had to come to a near stop on a dual-carriageway as a pedestrian was crossing the exit and didn't rush.
Motor vehicles don't have priority, in the UK at least.
Yeah that is different if it is an organised thing with warning signs and people looking out.
I was meaning more just a group of randoms walking down a road taking up the whole lane. Not crossing over the road, walking along it. Motor vehicles 100% take priority over pedestrians in that hypothetical.
maviczap
02-06-20, 03:29 PM
In a big group, its easier & safer for cars to pass riders who are riding two abreast, rather than the whole lot who've gone single file.
A small group, then politeness decrees single file
do most bikers ride CHiPs style... ermm no so why do cyclists. why cant cyclists leave a car gap between each other.. i'll tell you why, so you can gab like old women while pleasuring themselves with those pointy saddles.
i think we should have a national purge day for lycra clad cyclists.
daktulos
02-06-20, 03:41 PM
I was meaning more just a group of randoms walking down a road taking up the whole lane. Not crossing over the road, walking along it. Motor vehicles 100% take priority over pedestrians in that hypothetical.
It terms of self-preservation, sure. If I'm walking down a road, I'll step to the side if a car approaches me from behind. I'd also turn to look at them and wait ...
But in law (as I understand it, please correct me if wrong) I'm a road user and as I was using that carriageway first (I didn't just step into it) I absolutely have right of way.
DarrenSV650S
02-06-20, 03:48 PM
A busy country road with traffic being held up by a group of pedestrians blocking the road? No way. Police will move them on for sure
maviczap
02-06-20, 03:49 PM
do most bikers ride CHiPs style... ermm no so why do cyclists. why cant cyclists leave a car gap between each other.. i'll tell you why, so you can gab like old women while pleasuring themselves with those pointy saddles.
i think we should have a national purge day for lycra clad cyclists.
Because they're out for a social ride, and a chat, not something bikers can do wearing a full face helmet, simples. Drafting saves energy, so we don't leave a gap, some cnut in a car would always try and squeeze in a car size gap.
Same old Daily Hail,Daily Hate, ToryGraph,Scum vitriol coming out as usual on cycling topic's, just add road tax, insurance, number plates, helmets,hiviz to the poll, and you'd have a full house
If it was blacks versus whites or whites versus blacks it'd be called racism, but as that's not allowed.
Only if it's going slower than 10mph (which is very rare) and it's not hatched......
the 10MPH refers to overtaking slow moving Highway maintenance vehicles, not unpowered ones such as Cyclists, horses, pedestrians etc.
And you can ride/drive in Hatched areas if it safe to do so, unless there is. aSolid white line (which applies to all solid white lines)
130
Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
If the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency.
It terms of self-preservation, sure. If I'm walking down a road, I'll step to the side if a car approaches me from behind. I'd also turn to look at them and wait ...
But in law (as I understand it, please correct me if wrong) I'm a road user and as I was using that carriageway first (I didn't just step into it) I absolutely have right of way.
As far as i understand it, users of the road that do not use have an engine have right of way for their own protection. Imagine if all of a sudden bikes, Horses & Pedestrians had to give way to Cars, Trucks, Vans etc . . . . there would be chaos and a load more road injuries.
shiftin_gear98
02-06-20, 05:44 PM
We should stop talking about cyclists, they must be listening. There were bloody loads of them on my way home.
I think they are breeding out of spite, ruining the swooping corners for everyone who can go faster than them.
Shellfish that's what they are.
It wasn't that bad really, yes there were loads of cyclists, but I got over it.
Stay safe.
maviczap
02-06-20, 06:43 PM
We should stop talking about cyclists, they must be listening. There were bloody loads of them on my way home. I think they are breeding out of spite, ruining the swooping corners for everyone who can go faster than them.
Shellfish that's what they are.
It wasn't that bad really, yes there were loads of cyclists, but I got over it.
Stay safe.
Welcome to the new world order :D
Lockdown has enabled our breed to expand and conquer :cool:
20+ years ago cyclists were not a problem. i fully blame the tour de frog programs and insurance premiums. why is it 99% of the riders i see are male? maybe they are not getting their hole...... and thats why they are so pent up.
20+ years ago cyclists were not a problem. i fully blame the tour de frog programs and insurance premiums. why is it 99% of the riders i see are male? maybe they are not getting their hole...... and thats why they are so pent up.
20+ years ago there was also less vehicle traffic too . . . . less houses, less people, less roads. . . . . .
maviczap
02-06-20, 08:34 PM
20+ years ago there was also less vehicle traffic too . . . . less houses, less people, less roads. . . . . .
Amen
Plus less road rage and less people who didn't get in a tizzy over being held up for a few seconds in their sad little life, by people riding for pleasure, which is what most people on this forum ride for...... pleasure.
Just one is human powered, one by an engine. Both have two wheels
20+ years ago there was also less vehicle traffic too . . . . less houses, less people, less roads. . . . . .
not so much in scotchland... the population up here has only grown by 1mil if that in the 20 years. its sad middle aged fekers whoz wives dont put out who have turned to sticking saddles up their arzes that are the problem and mostly by southerners who have migrated north.
maviczap
02-06-20, 08:42 PM
not so much in scotchland... the population up here has only grown by 1mil if that in the 20 years. its sad middle aged fekers whoz wives dont put out who have turned to sticking saddles up their arzes that are the problem and mostly by southerners who have migrated north.
Ok, just stick those sad middle aged fekers back in their cars back on the roads and see how happy you'd be on a Sunday ride out.
Those sad middle aged fekers won't be clogging up the hospitals in the future, unlike the obese lardy unfit majority of our population.
daktulos
02-06-20, 09:13 PM
the 10MPH refers to overtaking slow moving Highway maintenance vehicles, not unpowered ones such as Cyclists, horses, pedestrians etc.
That's not my understanding, but I can't find the law, just the highway code, which says:
You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
OK, so not 100% clear, but the way I read it the 10mph applies to all three.
tAnd you can ride/drive in Hatched areas if it safe to do so, unless there is. aSolid white line (which applies to all solid white lines)
I was talking about the double-white lines with a small area of hatching inside them. They're not very common, but it means that there's no exception for overtaking anything going less than 10mph with them.
daktulos
02-06-20, 09:15 PM
Found it:
(6) Nothing in paragraph (2)(b) shall be taken to prohibit a vehicle from being driven across, or so as to straddle, the continuous line referred to in that paragraph, if it is safe to do so and if necessary to do so—
(a)to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road;
(b)in order to pass a stationary vehicle;
(c)owing to circumstances outside the control of the driver;
(d)in order to avoid an accident;
(e)in order to pass a road maintenance vehicle which is in use, is moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph, and is displaying to the rear the sign shown in diagram 610 or 7403;
(f)in order to pass a pedal cycle moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph;
(g)in order to pass a horse that is being ridden or led at a speed not exceeding 10 mph; or
(h)for the purposes of complying with any direction of a constable in uniform or a traffic warden.
It happened again yesterday for me - 3 cyclists abreast blocking a country lane having a nice chat. Couldn't they just have a picnic?
Dave20046
03-06-20, 09:54 AM
It happened again yesterday for me - 3 cyclists abreast blocking a country lane having a nice chat. Couldn't they just have a picnic?
I'm sorry to say the poll has tipped the other way. No matter what drivers think or the highway code advises, rolling road blocks are here to stay, chuck you keys in a river and buy some walking boots .
I for one still cannot comprehend it but will tut a little less loud and embrace the near misses I observe
Chris_SVS
03-06-20, 09:57 AM
As if by magic, two pedestrians walking with traffic yesterday. No overtake on due to oncoming so I didn't.
Sir Trev
03-06-20, 03:10 PM
As an ex-cyclist myself, I look at it this way: there are considerate cyclists and there are @rseholes, just as there are considerate bikers, and @rseholes that give bikers a bad name.
And for a bit of perspective, this happened last night 400 yards from where a mate of mine lives: https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/18489877.two-cyclists-killed-hit-car-wycombe/
That bit of road is on my commute (when I'm allowed in the office) and the crash site is just at the end of a 40mph zone which almost nobody pays any attention to. Every day I get idiots flying up behind me and it is usually pretty busy in both directions, so overtakes can be dangerous at the best of times, no matter what you're passing. Anyone who knows the area comes off the M40 southbound at J5 and comes this way into Wycombe to avoid the hideous J4. So many are at near motorway speeds at this point it can be scary. Trouble is, it is scenic (ish) and a nice area to cycle in, if you like hills, so lots of people do.
not so much in scotchland... the population up here has only grown by 1mil if that in the 20 years. its sad middle aged fekers whoz wives dont put out who have turned to sticking saddles up their arzes that are the problem and mostly by southerners who have migrated north.
According to the ONS Scotland statistics there has been an increase of 500K form 2003-2018.
I'm not sure how you sit on your bike, but i sit on a saddle. Not sure how that's different to any Cyclist . . . .let alone how that's even relevant to where the Cyclists have come from. I'm pretty certain Scotland decided to stay part of the UK and not leave it.
Cycling is a big industry, and brings in a lot of money to Scotland through Tourism; so no doubt a sizeable addition to the customers of Hotels & Restaurants. Places which now are probably struggling to survive due to the banning of travel and Holidays.
Scottish GDP 2018 est 202 Billion
Estimated economic from Cycling/attributed spend: 241M-362M
https://transformscotland.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/The-Value-of-Cycle-Tourism-full-report.pdf
Dave20046
03-06-20, 05:28 PM
I must say Bibio has been crucial in winning over the hearts and minds of cyclists on this thread.
He's the Dominic sCummings to my BoJogogo
I must say Bibio has been crucial in winning over the hearts and minds of cyclists on this thread.
He's the Dominic sCummings to my BoJogogo
yes i do like to play devils advocate but as many older orgers will know i love to wind people up.. ;) :D
BTW most hotels, B&B, garages, pubs in the north of Scotland are owned and run by English people who have moved up here wanting a better life. the only problem is that they also try to 'make things better' in their local community which completely pizzes the locals off. this was evident during the Scottish Referendum when it split Lochcarron and many many other larger towns in two, you had the locals voting yes and the 'newcomers' (a lot of them) voting no. it was like this all over the north of Scotland. some of these towns are actually populated with more English holiday homes than locals.
the NC500 was orchestrated by the English wanting more revenue via the leisure industry. the locals dont want it and are very irate about it, but that means nothing as after all they are just daft Jocks.
Chris_SVS
03-06-20, 09:21 PM
They get revenue alright, 142p/L in Strontian ffs
yes but when its the only pump for miles you pays what you pays, it also adds to the local community with helping keep roofs on the community centres etc.etc. i dont mind one little bit. these pumps are owned and run by the locals who pay higher fuel prices to begin with. if these pumps dont stay open then the locals have to do a 50+ mile round trip just for fuel. bets the 'mainland' price was around 132p/L.
Chris_SVS
03-06-20, 09:35 PM
The cap hissed that day :D
Chris_SVS
04-06-20, 10:37 AM
https://twitter.com/palaeobecca/status/1267927953737998342?s=20
shiftin_gear98
04-06-20, 10:50 AM
20 cyclists on my way home last night - yep I counted - only two curnts - to coin Bibs. Not too bad a ratio.
They were in full spandex riding two abreast around a blind corner.
timwilky
04-06-20, 12:50 PM
Came across a few on my Sunday first ride of the year blast.
some move over and make room for you to safely overtake them. friendly wave as I pass.
Twice on the lanes, total ignorance of the fact I am behind. two/three abreast gassing away and no intention of allowing me to make progress on their roads. If I want to overtake I have to go onto the opposite side of the road on the blind bends. No thank you. We get round the bend at about 15 MPH and they then spread out 4 abreast taking up the whole lane. Leaving me with no option but to force an overtake. slipping clutch and revving make no difference. they are on the tour de Lancashire and in their own bubble of self importance.
So much for social distancing with that lot.
I was behind a car yesterday, that was behind a Lycra clad lady bicycler. It was a narrow and windy lane, and the lady bicycler instructed the car in front to overtake. There was however an oncoming vehicle, so the motorist, presumably aware of the laws of the Highway Code, decided not to pull out and hit the oncoming motorist, and instead waited behind the Lycra clad female. There was an entrance to a recently decommissioned golf course on the left so the bicyclist pulled into the entrance, allowing the motorist in front and myself to pass in complete safety without driving into oncoming vehicles as had been instructed by the lady bicycler.
I was a little astounded to see her shaking her head at the motorist in front of me for not obeying her order to put other road users at risk of injury, presumably upset that she had to remove her foot from her peddle strap.
keith_d
07-06-20, 09:54 PM
I was behind a car yesterday, that was behind a Lycra clad lady bicycler. It was a narrow and windy lane, and the lady bicycler instructed the car in front to overtake. <snip>
It was a long time ago, but I'm sure when I learned to drive they told me never to rely on the advice of other road users. Always decide for yourself whether it's safe to proceed. So if the motorist decided not to overtake that's their decision.
That doesn't stop me encouraging drivers to pass me (on a bicycle) when I can see it's safe. If they don't take the opportunity I have no problem cycling along at 10mph in front of them. It's their problem not mine. Moxt bikers have no problem overtaking a cyclist, so I just let them get on with and wince if they've got a really loud pipe on a crappy 125.
Chris_SVS
07-06-20, 10:48 PM
There are many similarities in how I drive, cycle and ride.
I get my own information and don't rely on anyone elses cues, seems to be working ok.
shiftin_gear98
08-06-20, 07:25 AM
There are many similarities in how I drive, cycle and ride.
I get my own information and don't rely on anyone elses cues, seems to be working ok.
^ I'd hate to be stuck behind you if you drive your car as slow as you cycle.
garynortheast
08-06-20, 07:53 AM
^ I'd hate to be stuck behind you if you drive your car as slow as you cycle.
I can vouch for the fact that he doesn't Martin. :smt046
SV650rules
08-06-20, 08:05 AM
Most bikers have no problem overtaking a cyclist, so I just let them get on with and wince if they've got a really loud pipe on a crappy 125.
Overtaking cyclists is the one time I would like straight through pipes :). Cyclists riding with earpieces in really bugs me, how can they expect to hear much of surroundings, particularly if noise cancelling earpieces, and why aren't bikes fitted with rear view mirrors ( at least one on offside ), or even helmet mirrors - how can cyclists be fully aware of who is behind them ? I used to cycle quite a bit but would pull into verge and stop if people were behind trying to overtake, easier if you are on your own than in a group and less traffic then but because more drivers had ridden bicycles and motorbikes then they were more understanding, now people jump straight into cars and have no understanding of other road users, or even road conditions.
Chris_SVS
08-06-20, 08:37 AM
^ I'd hate to be stuck behind you if you drive your car as slow as you cycle.
Only when behind cyclists :D
mMBP8GzektQ
Dave20046
08-06-20, 09:31 AM
Watch out Chris
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/plain-clothes-police-officers-bikes-22154010
Chris_SVS
08-06-20, 11:09 AM
I think the PSNI did similar here and discovered the club was the problem :-({|=
Overtaking cyclists is the one time I would like straight through pipes :). Cyclists riding with earpieces in really bugs me, how can they expect to hear much of surroundings, particularly if noise cancelling earpieces, and why aren't bikes fitted with rear view mirrors ( at least one on offside ), or even helmet mirrors - how can cyclists be fully aware of who is behind them ? I used to cycle quite a bit but would pull into verge and stop if people were behind trying to overtake, easier if you are on your own than in a group and less traffic then but because more drivers had ridden bicycles and motorbikes then they were more understanding, now people jump straight into cars and have no understanding of other road users, or even road conditions.
When I were a lad you used to get mirrors to attach to your handle bars.
Forgot to mention in my last post, just before the lady bicycler signalled the motorist to pass, she did for some reason swerve out to the right quite violently. I expected to see a pothole or something that she was trying to avoid but no, nothing in the road that would call for such a manoeuvre. I think the unfamiliarity of being out of the natural environment of the kitchen may have addled her brain.
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