Any builders

[garynortheast]

Do we have any builders in the Border Patrol area, familiar with current building regs and standards for rented properties, especially older houses?

[Dave20046]

I'm envious of your builder proximity Gary. Wales based Hawthorn building services is an ex member, great bloke arguably greater workmanship. But as Wales is one little village in my mind... I may be a bit off with the distance.

Is it anything we can help with over the net?
Not really building regs but there's a few Q's or common gotchas people might be able to help with here - if you have a gas central heating system (and hob or fire actually) for instance this should have had a 'landlords' check every 12 months and a copy of the cert MUST have been available for the tenant.

[garynortheast]

Bit of a long story Dave, which I’ll expand on when I have the energy, but I want to get someone who knows what they are talking about to walk round this house with me and tell me what is needed to legally bring it up to standard. I’m going to suggest to the landlords that rather than kick me out of my home and then get a builder in to refurb the whole house with all the attendant delays as they bugger off to other jobs, they let me organise the work needing to be done. I could do it a stage at a time and remain in my home, but I need someone knowledgable to talk me through what I can do and what would need qualified professionals. I’m aware of the need for qualified people to carry out various inspections and certification of stuff like electrics, chimneys, solid fuel burners etc, but it would be useful to have proper advice to enable me to put together a schedule of work.

Much of this has happened because my landlord, the Presbyterian Church in Wales, has employed a property manager who seems to value “maximising profit” over principles and an ethical code. The Presbyterian and Methodist churches, for all the faults of organised religion, do actually have quite a tradition of social justice and a sense of moral obligation towards the less well off and generally disadvantaged members of society. This property manager appears not to have any of that, but just has pound signs in his eyes. I’m getting in touch with the heads of the church down in Cardiff to remind them gently of their need to observe certain values, and at the same time offer them an alternative route to the result we all want, which is a house in need of refurbishment brought up to a decent condition.

[Dave20046]

I see Gary, not sure everything should be turned on it's head because of one new person if they aren't doing things for the right reasons... sounds like you need this guy
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sonsofanarchy/images/9/90/Kellanashby.png/revision/latest?cb=20101104013736

See if Hawthorn are near you (Llan ?), he might be booked up but if not I'm sure you'll find someone else.

[Luckypants]

Phil (Hawthorn Building) is now down near Staylittle, so not a million miles away from you Gary.

[garynortheast]

Thanks Dave and Mike. Staylittle isn’t any distance from here.

[svenrico]

Sounds like you are asking somebody to prepare a schedule of works for you (going round telling you what needs to be done)
Building regulations applications are usually prepared by an architect, architectural technician or building surveyor for example ,i.e that is work for the professionals. I don't suppose builders are now doing them free of charge !
I wouldn't think the landlord would allow you to prepare a schedule of works for building work to be done to their property and let you carry out the work unless you were a building professional.
ps depends what you consider needs 'refurbishing' of course , existing older houses obviously won't comply with current building regs but any work carried out should comply with current regs ,or at least not make the situation worse. What does the landlord think about the condition of the property and any proposed refurbishment work?

[svenrico]

Minimum standards in rented accommodation | Department of ...
https://www.housing.gov.ie/.../minimum-standards-rented-accommodation
These minimum standards are set out in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 201 9 What are the minimum standards For each house let or available for letting, the landlord must ensure that
garynortheast - you can see publications on minimum standards for rented houses by searching internet . My job involved obtaining Building Regulations approval for building projects but you would need to identify where you think these rented housing standards aren't being met and take it up with the landlord in the first instance. The building owner or their agent would have to make an application for approval of any proposed building work requiring building regs approval.

[maviczap]

Bit of a long story Dave, which I’ll expand on when I have the energy, but I want to get someone who knows what they are talking about to walk round this house with me and tell me what is needed to legally bring it up to standard. I’m going to suggest to the landlords that rather than kick me out of my home and then get a builder in to refurb the whole house with all the attendant delays as they bugger off to other jobs, they let me organise the work needing to be done. I could do it a stage at a time and remain in my home, but I need someone knowledgable to talk me through what I can do and what would need qualified professionals. I’m aware of the need for qualified people to carry out various inspections and certification of stuff like electrics, chimneys, solid fuel burners etc, but it would be useful to have proper advice to enable me to put together a schedule of work.

Much of this has happened because my landlord, the Presbyterian Church in Wales, has employed a property manager who seems to value “maximising profit” over principles and an ethical code. The Presbyterian and Methodist churches, for all the faults of organised religion, do actually have quite a tradition of social justice and a sense of moral obligation towards the less well off and generally disadvantaged members of society. This property manager appears not to have any of that, but just has pound signs in his eyes. I’m getting in touch with the heads of the church down in Cardiff to remind them gently of their need to observe certain values, and at the same time offer them an alternative route to the result we all want, which is a house in need of refurbishment brought up to a decent condition.

Funking barsteward

[garynortheast]

Funking barsteward

Pretty much my feelings too Mav.

[svenrico]

' I want to get someone who knows what they are talking about to walk round this house with me and tell me what is needed to legally bring it up to standard.' Wouldn't that be the department of the local council that deals with minimum standards in rented accommodation? If it was me I would contact the local council and ask to be put through to that department and ask if they can arrange a meeting on site with the landlord ,somebody from their department and yourself to go round the house ,carry out an inspection and list the items that are not up to minimum standards. It would then be up to the landlord to appoint somebody to prepare a scheme ,depending on the extent of work required, with drawings and specification for submission for building regulations approval as necessary. When approved it would be up to the landlord to appoint a builder to carry out the work. I don't see that it is up to you or your responsibilty as the tenant to plan and organise the work unless the landlord wants you to do that.
ps 'but it would be useful to have proper advice to enable me to put together a schedule of work.' The proper advice should be the technical information shown on the approved Building Regulations drawings and construction specification.

[garynortheast]

Just to save everyone any more effort, the situation has moved on past this now. I will need to move out at least for the duration of the refurb, and shall be working very hard to ensure that I get the new tenancy when the work is complete.

Thanks for everyone’s input though.

[Dave20046]

Just to save everyone any more effort, the situation has moved on past this now. I will need to move out at least for the duration of the refurb, and shall be working very hard to ensure that I get the new tenancy when the work is complete.

Thanks for everyone’s input though.
Sounds promising Gary
Or atleast better. Can you get them to guarantee a duration of refurb?

[maviczap]

Fingers crossed for you Gary

[svenrico]

Just to save everyone any more effort, the situation has moved on past this now. I will need to move out at least for the duration of the refurb, and shall be working very hard to ensure that I get the new tenancy when the work is complete.

Thanks for everyone’s input though.
That was quick. They must have heard the forum was on the case.

[garynortheast]

It’s partly my own decision, made after a period of reflection. Originally I was going to offer to arrange/do the work myself and with suitably skilled friends (at least, the work not requiring a qualified person) but the scale of the work is such that the idea is not really feasible.
I will be contacting both the local trustees and the Church Moderator, and politely pointing out the wrongness of ejecting a tenant of 25 years, who has always paid the rent on time, without guaranteeing my first refusal on the new tenancy. Several friends are also writing similar letters, including a friend who is herself a Methodist minister locally.

Next job is to find somewhere to rent locally for the duration of the work.

[svenrico]

It’s partly my own decision, made after a period of reflection. Originally I was going to offer to arrange/do the work myself and with suitably skilled friends (at least, the work not requiring a qualified person) but the scale of the work is such that the idea is not really feasible.
I will be contacting both the local trustees and the Church Moderator, and politely pointing out the wrongness of ejecting a tenant of 25 years, who has always paid the rent on time, without guaranteeing my first refusal on the new tenancy. Several friends are also writing similar letters, including a friend who is herself a Methodist minister locally.

Next job is to find somewhere to rent locally for the duration of the work. I don't want to drag this out but it all seems a bit unfair if you are being thrown out after 25 years ,it isn't your fault the property is in need of refurbishment. I would want to check the legal situation.
Good luck anyway.

[garynortheast]

I have, it’s the first thing I did. I have been issued a section 21 notice under the 1988 housing act, which allows a landlord to repossess a house normally with just two months notice, (Covid19 has meant they have had to give me 6 months) and with no obligation to tell the tenant why. It was brought in in this form by bloody Thatcher and co (and no, I will not be turning this into a political rant as I don’t have the energy). The landlord is on firm legal ground with this.

That is no substitute though for a sense of ethical behaviour or moral obligation.

[Dave20046]

It's peculiar given the circumstances. Have they err mentioned a rent hike when the work is done?

[garynortheast]

It's peculiar given the circumstances. Have they err mentioned a rent hike when the work is done?

Yep. The phrase was “to be re-let at a market value rent which would reflect the money spent on refurbishment”. The rent currently is a real 1970s rent, like many of the chapel houses, so with falling congregations the church needs to find some way of financing the work needed on these properties to bring them up to a current legal standard. If they put the rent up too high though, it will just be counter productive as nobody will be able to afford it. The village is well out of the way with no proper transport links and no work locally without driving for it. I intend to remind them of this, and the fact that one long term tenant (me!) makes more economic sense than a series of short term tenants.

[Dave20046]

I see, well as long as you're expecting it. They've got to reflect it's situ in the price and hopefully there won't be much other immediate interest when it's available given the location (and local masked nudist who's recently been loitering in the area).

[Adam Ef]

...hopefully there won't be much other immediate interest when it's available given the location (and local masked nudist who's recently been loitering in the area).


Not to mention all those noisy motorbikes that keep meeting in the car park over the road. :smile:

[Dave20046]

I'm happy to help.

It could be the 'Goat rideout', where we don't really ride we just herd goats into gary's front garden and sip tea accross the road while revving and blaspheming.

[garynortheast]

You wouldn’t get many goats in my front garden as it’s very small, and they’re definitely not going u on my veg plot!

Personally I think we should herd 50 or so goats into the property manager’s garden.......

[shiftin_gear98]

Or 50 or so revving motorbikes.

[Dave20046]

Or 50 or so revving motorbikes.

Or 50 or so goats on motorbikes or motorbikes on 50 goats and so and an so forth

[SV650rules]

Or 50 or so goats on motorbikes or motorbikes on 50 goats and so and an so forth


Goats are noisy bleaters....

[redtrummy]

Hope it all works out well for you in the end Gary

[garynortheast]

Hope it all works out well for you in the end Gary

Me too. There’s just so much up in the air at the moment. :(

[svenrico]

I see, well as long as you're expecting it. They've got to reflect it's situ in the price and hopefully there won't be much other immediate interest when it's available given the location (and local masked nudist who's recently been loitering in the area).
Not much interest in an out of the way, recently refurbished house in the countryside !!! Just the opposite I would have thought. Who knows, might they even put it up for sale rather than rent it out. Perhaps Gary could put it around that it is a notorious hotspot for local doggers , that might put people off (or would it ?)
ps sorry for making a joke of it, I'm sure everybody hopes it turns out well.

[garynortheast]

It won’t be sold as it’s attached to a historically important memorial chapel.

[Dave20046]

Not much interest in an out of the way, recently refurbished house in the countryside !!! Just the opposite I would have thought. Who knows, might they even put it up for sale rather than rent it out. Perhaps Gary could put it around that it is a notorious hotspot for local doggers , that might put people off (or would it ?)
ps sorry for making a joke of it, I'm sure everybody hopes it turns out well.

Depends how out of the way it is. I feel not that many people relocate to rent a home unless work brings them there and renting a local house is a necessity (goat shepherd vacancies?). I could be picturing completely the wrong circumstances but I didn't picture someone seeing it for rent, upping sticks and moving there if there's little guarantee of local work. It would be someone from that locale and if they're pretty settled/not much movement (and know about Gary's penchant for bloody vengeance) he might be in luck.

[garynortheast]

Indeed, anybody moving out here would be wanting to buy a house not rent one. There’s not much other than farming work, one bus a week, and the only broadband is the community wireless system set up and maintained by a friend and me. We’re 12 miles from the nearest supermarket and town of any size too.

[svenrico]

Indeed, anybody moving out here would be wanting to buy a house not rent one. There’s not much other than farming work, one bus a week, and the only broadband is the community wireless system set up and maintained by a friend and me. We’re 12 miles from the nearest supermarket and town of any size too.

Lots of places in North Yorkshire are at least 12 miles from the nearest town or supermarket but it doesn't stop people buying houses in the country. Just saying.

[Dave20046]

Gary you might have it there, you have control of the wireless ... you could inject subliminal messages about how great you are or fakenews the Churchy Estates bloke.
Lots of places in North Yorkshire are at least 12 miles from the nearest town or supermarket but it doesn't stop people buying houses in the country. Just saying.

Is facepalm still a thing?

[garynortheast]

It won’t be sold as it’s attached to a historically important memorial chapel.

Lots of places in North Yorkshire are at least 12 miles from the nearest town or supermarket but it doesn't stop people buying houses in the country. Just saying.

We’re talking about a house which is being and will continue to be rented out.

[svenrico]

We’re talking about a house which is being and will continue to be rented out.
yes, ok , you obviously know more about the situation , I just wondered why the dwelling couldn't be sold , couldn't they sell the house without selling the chapel ? I know chapels that have been converted to houses ! I can see the internet thing could be a problem.

[svenrico]

Gary you might have it there, you have control of the wireless ... you could inject subliminal messages about how great you are or fakenews the Churchy Estates bloke.


Is facepalm still a thing? Don't know, never really understood a lot of these internet expressions. What is your point exactly ?

[Dave20046]

Don't know, never really understood a lot of these internet expressions. What is your point exactly ?

Because Gary & I repeatedly said renting and your reply said buying (did bold that but it may have been lost).
Gary's had some assurance they aren't selling it and it's not been their MO for the past 25+ years so it doesn't make sense to fret too much about that particular hypothetical.

[svenrico]

Because Gary & I repeatedly said renting and your reply said buying (did bold that but it may have been lost).
Gary's had some assurance they aren't selling it and it's not been their MO for the past 25+ years so it doesn't make sense to fret too much about that particular hypothetical.

ok, I wasn't aware there had been any assurance about not selling. As far as being rented for years, my parents rented out some furnished cottages for years but eventually sold them ! Anyway it wasn't my intention to make anybody fret and I get the message so I'll shut up.
Peace and goodwill to all.