Counter Leaning

[DJ123]

Counter Leaning.

Who does it? Who has heard of it? Does it actually make sense in the real world of daily riding?

I'm no expert on physics, nor a professional rider of any sort. But if this is better why is it not taught, or adopted as the mainstream way of riding? If its the fastest way to change direction on a Motorcycle why don't Moto GP riders (and the alike) do it?
Of what i recall, the advice was/is to lean your body out, and try and keep the Bike more upright for a bigger contact patch/better grip levels.

https://youtu.be/U1mSavQ_DXs

[Seeker]

Your video doesn't play for me (an error occurred please try again later). Is it the Fort9 one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1mSavQ_DXs

[DJ123]

It is the F9 one

[johnnyrod]

Can't view the vid but if you mean leaning the bike under you towards the inside of the bend, you do it to increase the tightness of the turn, typically when manoeuvring. You do it in MX as well for this and also to get the big side knobbles of the tyres into the dirt. You're right about normally for better control when getting the power on you'd put yourself inside of the bike and it stays a bit more upright than just sitting on it.

[Bibio]

not advisable at high speeds....

superbike, moto gp etc.etc hang off to gain higher speeds through corners as hanging off keeps the bike slightly more upright so they can use the full width of the tyre which are special profile, if they were to sit upright like road riding they would lowside before reaching the limit of the tyre edge.

MX riders stick a leg out to counteract the upright position for tighter turns at low speeds (they also do it for safety).

speedway riders use a foot sleigh to stand on and sit upright and drift a bike round the turns which requires the rear wheel to always be spinning without grip.

we mortals sit perpendicular as we ride at moderate speeds on tyres designed for no more than 45deg lean angle, this is what the hero blobs are for on motorbikes.

[SV650rules]

I use counter steering where I actively push the end of bars to initiate the turn ( just involves straightening one of my arms ), that forces the bike to lean and is the quickest way to change direction on hard surface, and very easy to control the angle of lean. On RH bends I try to keep my body more upright because I don't like leaning over the centreline of road, this involves leaning the bike a bit more, but at the speeds I ride not a problem.

[gadget]

Motogp / WSB / BSB and most road race pilots do actually use counter steering to great effect, the changes in bars width and shallower angles allows the effective use of counter steering. It only becomes apparent above approximately 15-20 mph, I was taught to use this method when racing back in the 70's especiallyfor quick line changes at decent speeds, not recommended for slow tight turns at all, it's kind of a natural thing to do now tbh. You can either be a 'pusher' or a 'puller' on the bars, I'm a pusher but don't realise I'm doing it as it's now second nature. Go out and find a nice relaxing twisty road and have a play with it, it does go 'hand in glove' with lean angle too but once you've has a play with it you'll find your bike has a lot more agility and ability than you've ever felt before.
How many bikers have leant into a corner and panicked because they've all but run out of road almost stacking it into a hedge? Some bikes naturally steer quicker than others, counter steering helps the cornering principle immensely.

[DJ123]

If you don't counter steer, you'll have cornering issues. Its the best way to initiate the lean into a bend/corner and to stand it up on the way out too.

[SV650rules]

If you don't counter steer, you'll have cornering issues. Its the best way to initiate the lean into a bend/corner and to stand it up on the way out too.


Absolutely you can fine turn the turn with not really much pressure on bars, and if you have the misfortune to have to brake during a bend can compensate for the tendency of the bike to try to stand up.

[johnnyrod]

Still can't view the vid. I presumed from the title it wasn't countersteering hence my spiel. Yes, countersteering is a must. I sat in a room full of riders at Superbike School level 1 and when asked the question, about half of them didn't believe it existed. They then took us all outside and taught us how to do it properly. I do wonder if the unbelievers saw the light, or thought they had just learned magic.

[Bibio]

counter steering and counter leaning are two different things but both can be used at the same time.

everyone counter steers naturally coz if they never they would not go round corners. there is passive and aggressive counter steering. aggressive is when you knowingly input the counter steer.

most people riding motorcycles actually do it wrong as they have straight arms and grip the bars tight.