View Full Version : Petrol shortage
"Drivers urged not to panic buy".
Could anyone guess what is going to happen next?
Craig380
24-09-21, 07:36 AM
Already happening in Macclesfield. The funny thing is, the Tesco petrol station in Macc has enormous queues, because it's the cheapest fuel in the area. However, the three Shell stations which are all within 2 miles of Tesco are fine - no queue, all pumps working - because their fuel is 6p per litre more than at Tesco.
Biker Biggles
24-09-21, 07:40 AM
Im confidant our people are more sensible than that.
Now where can I get bog rolls and tins of beans this morning? I have made space in the shed for a pallet of corn flakes arriving later
garynortheast
24-09-21, 08:15 AM
Yep, I have a skip of pasta being delivered this morning.
We should be proud of our (crown stamped, blue passport bearing) British common sense. After all it's not every collection of nations that can produce people who think it's sensible to stand in Leicester Square with an orange flare erupting from their @rse.
Chris_SVS
24-09-21, 08:44 AM
Yep, I have a skip of pasta being delivered this morning.
We should be proud of our (crown stamped, blue passport bearing) British common sense. After all it's not every collection of nations that can produce people who think it's sensible to stand in Leicester Square with an orange flare erupting from their @rse.
Worst back sack n crack I ever had
Sir Trev
24-09-21, 06:00 PM
Worst back sack n crack I ever had
Pass the mind bleach.
All gone silly in Dover too, saw a guy filling his car and had two mahoosive Jerry cans too! Total numpty.
if there wasn't there will be now. our politicians are a bunch of morons.
Conservative logic.
1) We're not short of petrol but short of HGV drivers (ok)
2) This is not caused by Brexit (Grant Shapps)
3) 14,000 EU HGV drivers went home because of pandemic and Brexit (just a minute...)
4) EU is short of HGV drivers (Grant Shapps again)
5) UK will offer visas for foreign drivers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58687026)
Where are the drivers coming from if the EU is already short? Perhaps Cruella Patel can interview the Channel migrants and keep the ones that can drive HGV? :)
keith_d
25-09-21, 01:30 PM
Yep, no petrol left around here by 9pm yesterday, if you exclude the petrol being burnt by cars waiting in queues to be told to f*** off.
Grant66
25-09-21, 02:37 PM
2) This is not caused by Brexit (Grant Shapps)
3) 14,000 EU HGV drivers went home because of pandemic and Brexit (just a minute...)
UK was already short of 76,000 drivers before Brexit or Covid. Undoubtedly those haven't helped the situation but it's not the whole story.
Pay and conditions (responsibility of the employers), lack of investment in training. The only growth in the industry since 2010 has been to increase the number of eastern European drivers.
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/supply-chain/the-real-causes-of-the-hgv-driver-shortage-and-why-we-cant-blame-it-all-on-brexit/659841.article
Perhaps a bit of foresight from the RHA might have avoided the situation.
Sent from an S20 using Tapatalk with that kin cr4p blocked
Sir Trev
25-09-21, 04:47 PM
The one thing you can blame the government for is IR35. Independent owner/drivers have been caught up in something trying to stop white collar workers avoiding NI, despite most of us on day rates working short term contracts (ie no job security), working for multiple clients (clearly not employees in disguise) and paying lots of Corporation Tax and VAT 'cos we didn't fiddle the system. A lot of hauliers and logistics firms are preferring to use agencies instead of o/d as they wrongly believe it covers them better in case they get audited. Muppetts!
I'm supposed to be going to the office on Tuesday and most of my colleagues are coming in on the same day, as we've not seen each other face to face in a year and a half. I do hope this does not scupper things!
Adam Ef
25-09-21, 06:37 PM
Drivers that left because of Brexit left months ago, not in the last few days when the media said there was a crisis due to lack of drivers. What is causing the "crisis", the drivers or the media hype?
Chris_SVS
26-09-21, 05:18 AM
Drivers that left because of Brexit left months ago, not in the last few days when the media said there was a crisis due to lack of drivers. What is causing the "crisis", the drivers or the media hype?
Media hype and people not understanding how petrol stations work. ie: you have to be absolutely sure that your tank will take a full compartment worth of delivery, otherwise the trailer can't be disconnected from your forecourt inlet and you have to give fuel away.
But also that deliveries are scheduled for every 3 days (example) and it's not just as easy as phoning up BP and asking for a quick 500L this afternoon, this might be ok for your domestic oil tank but not this.\
+people are thick
2) This is not caused by Brexit (says Grant Shapps)
Where are the drivers coming from if the EU is already short?
https://inews.co.uk/news/hgv-shortage-eu-drivers-snub-boris-johnsons-uk-petrol-crisis-brexit-visa-offer-1217320
"the head of the European Road Haulers Association (UETR) has said drivers on the continent are likely to ignore the UK in favour of “higher pay and better working conditions across Europe."
Mr Digioia (head of UETR) added that “it is not surprising” that the UK is suffering driver shortages.
“There are two reasons,” he said. “Number one is Brexit, and number two is Covid.
was that Plan B or C?
keith_d
26-09-21, 08:03 AM
Drivers that left because of Brexit left months ago, not in the last few days when the media said there was a crisis due to lack of drivers. What is causing the "crisis", the drivers or the media hype?
This particular 'crisis' has the same cause as the toilet paper fiasco at the beginning of lockdown. People grabbing things in case there's a shortage.
The underlying problem is that pay and conditions for long distance drivers have been destroyed by a decade of companies being able to hire cheap eastern european drivers. Why would young people want to go into an industry where you're away from home for days on end, living in a shoebox, and paid rock bottom wages.
As has already been mentioned, independent drivers have been hit with IR35 which was meant to catch well paid IT professionals, not HGV drivers. So that's more paperwork and extra taxes. I'd bet that's encouraged a few retirements among the older drivers.
The final factor is that there's also a shortage of drivers in Europe, so when Brexit happened many European drivers were able to find jobs closer to home and family for comparable pay.
Put all this together, and it's no surprise that there's a shortage of Class-1 drivers.
the visas to attract drivers and poultry workers will expire on Christmas Eve (!) Better lay on extra ferries, workers will be falling over themselves to get here.
"businesses dismissed the move as no more than “throwing a thimble of water on a bonfire"".
if there wasn't there will be now. our politicians are a bunch of morons.
Known that for a long time but ... well said anyway!
we have oil reserves and refineries to make fuel... why is there a shortage?? so the gov can make more money in duty as a stop gap (its the highest duty on anything).. they do it every time we are up shizz street.
why can they just say sorry peeps we effed up so its another 10p on tax, vat etc.etc till things are better. but instead they make our life's a misery bu creating panic.
Adam Ef
26-09-21, 07:06 PM
Plenty of garages had fuel in South Wales today and no one queuing to get it. Filled up the bike at a very quiet garage. They did have a £30 limit in place though, not that I could fit that in the bike.
SV650rules
26-09-21, 07:52 PM
Conservative logic.
1) We're not short of petrol but short of HGV drivers (ok)
2) This is not caused by Brexit (Grant Shapps)
3) 14,000 EU HGV drivers went home because of pandemic and Brexit (just a minute...)
The driver shortage affects the whole of Europe, Poland and Germany especially - so if all the lorry drivers that used to work in UK went back home because of Brexit there should be an oversupply in Europe... but there is not.
The driver shortage affects the whole of Europe, Poland and Germany especially - so if all the lorry drivers that used to work in UK went back home because of Brexit there should be an oversupply in Europe... but there is not.
yes, if they were just short of a few drivers. However, the EU is short of 400,000 drivers.
https://www.ti-insight.com/briefs/europes-road-freight-market-short-of-more-400000-drivers/
Given that the UK has spent the last few years telling EU workers they aren't welcome and given the fact the £ is now only worth 1.17 € (it was about 1.4 € in 2017) and the fact that the visas runs out Christmas Eve and the fact that last year many drivers got stuck at Dover, I doubt whether hordes of EU drivers will be returning.
We are not short of petrol but it's located at the refineries and since no one trusts this government, people panic buy. I've ordered a rechargeable LED lantern and a butane camping stove because the energy minister said the lights will remain on over Christmas.
We saw a similar debacle during the pandemic, the government had been warned about the virus, they ignored the warnings, refused to quickly implement a lockdown and took 11 months to control the incoming passengers.
We stumble from one crisis to the next, this government doesn't pro-actively make plans it reacts to a disaster. A clown got elected and we got a circus.
redtrummy
26-09-21, 09:09 PM
Have to agree with that Seeker!
garynortheast
26-09-21, 09:44 PM
Spot on Seeker. Neatly sums up the situation.
svenrico
26-09-21, 10:27 PM
Spot on Seeker. Neatly sums up the situation.
Hear, hear.
svenrico
26-09-21, 10:31 PM
Latest - government 'thinking of' calling in the army to deliver petrol. Might as well do it then because the driver situation isn't going to improve in the near future.
SV650rules
27-09-21, 08:23 AM
yes, if they were just short of a few drivers. However, the EU is short of 400,000 drivers.
You kinda contradicted yourself trying to refute what I said, is the shortage of 400,000 drivers in EU due to Brexit then, same as it is supposed to be in UK ( if you believe the partisan media) ? The media would like us to believe that everything that is happening in UK is down to Brexit. Our businesses had plenty of time to wean themselves off cheap free-movement labour and start training people, they obviously couldn't be 4r55ed.....
You kinda contradicted yourself trying to refute what I said, is the shortage of 400,000 drivers in EU due to Brexit then
No, the loss of the 14,000 EU HGV drivers is partly down to Brexit. We, as a nation, made it unpleasant for them to be here, then the weakness of the £ made it financially unattractive, too. The EU driver shortage for the EU is their problem.
The government was warned about the forthcoming driver shortage months ago by the RHA. Partly the hold up was the DVLA, partly it's not an attractive profession, partly it's because more profit can be made by using EU drivers.
Belatedly (as is typical), the Tories are trying to speed up the testing and/or reduce standards but the visa scheme is laughable and is a direct result of the split in the Cabinet with the anti-EU tribe not wanting any EU workers versus the more realistic members seeing that it's necessary. What we get is a compromise which helps no one. Listen to what BoZo is saying - he is considering using army drivers. What is there to consider - too little, too late, but we only have a few hundred Army tanker drivers. Might make good headlines but that's all. His other plan is a begging letter asking recently retired drivers to return, You want them to return - offer them a reason, a (financial) incentive.
Partisan media? Yes, the media in the UK is mostly right leaning:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers
We keep hearing excuses why each problem UK society is facing is not caused by Brexit yet go back a few years and the only problems we seemed to be having was how bent a banana should be and the onerous rules that the EU imposed for Health and Safety.
Given the choice I'd take the way society was functioning then compared to the way it's (not) functioning now. Whether you (or I) believe that it is Brexit that is at fault is immaterial. Things are undeniably worse now than the way they were.
Will things get better? I was reading an article a couple of days ago that was saying pharmacists are still waiting for the goverment to tell them how the drug supply is going to work since Brexit is slowing deliveries.
Craig380
27-09-21, 09:33 AM
Brexit is certainly a factor in the UK's shortage of trained HGV drivers: the agency drivers who would take up much of the slack are no longer here.
And as you say, UK businesses have happily participated in the 'race to the bottom' of off-loading salaried staff and outsourcing, because we all want cheap stuff. So are we prepared to pay more for goods and services so that companies can start to hire staff and retrain them? Of course not.
Then you have unintended consequences of the poorly thought-out IR35 scheme, which is hitting freelancers across all sectors, not just drivers.
It all highlights just how much of a house of cards our economy is. None of our political parties has a solution, and nor do individual cabinet members care as long as they can take their cushy consultancy jobs in the private sector when they are sacked or reshuffled.
The country needs a proper proportional representation system in which parties have to work together for the good of the country, not just to cling to power and satisfy the demands of their extremist members. Having lived in Denmark for several years, where they have proper PR, and excellent health and social services despite a low percentage of earners/tax-payers relative to the population, the system works, as it does in Sweden and Norway.
SV650rules
27-09-21, 09:41 AM
Just about every country in the world is having problems just now, it is by no means confined to UK. We are in fact one of the luckier ones, but don't tell rejoiners that !
@seeker - you are still fudging that EU has a problem, and avoiding saying what caused their problem, you just glibly say 'the EU driver shortage is their problem' while focusing on UK end of it, so both the EU and the UK have driver shortages, but ours is 'definitely caused by Brexit' - sorry but it doesn't make any sense at all.
The EU driver shortage has no direct bearing on our problem other than the EU offers better conditions with no paperwork hassles that Brexit has introduced, since we have driven (!) the EU drivers away then naturally they will go to fill the void of EU drivers within the EU.
It's less financially attractive for EU drivers to be here because our economy has suffered more than other EU nations (thus causing a drop in the pound/Euro) because Brexit
https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/news-analysis/uk-gdp-economy-covid-g7-b1901440.html
Since we have told them we don't want them (post Brexit)
Since the logjam at our ports means being stuck for hours (caused by Brexit) with no rest facilities. You do realise that all outgoing freight has to go through rigorous EU paperwork checks whereas incoming freight does not because the government haven't got around to sorting that out yet.
Maybe the EU is short of drivers because their economies have rebounded quicker from the pandemic - our GDP only looks good (goodish) because of the insane housing market, take that away and it's in the doldrums.
After diving into this Brexit rabbit hole, the fact remains that this government has been slow to react and has no idea how to fix the problem other than blaming everyone except themselves. The estimate is now that 50% of petrol stations have no fuel.
Nobbylad
27-09-21, 11:25 AM
BTW - it's extremely difficult, if not impossible to book a practical test this side of Xmas (in the North West)
The estimate is now that 50% of petrol stations have no fuel.
In comparison it would be interesting to learn what estimated proportion of vehicles now have full tanks compared to a 'normal' mix of full, part-full and low-level (needing replenishment). Presumably usage rates haven't changed dramatically through the supply 'shortage'? I suspect it's not something easy to identify but I am sure many vehicle owners have been irrationally confusing instinctive fear of possibly running out with actual need. (Less willingness to let vehicle gauges run down, 'just in case', even though they're not likely to burn through what they already had any time soon - but did they really need to buy it based on any sort of sensible analysis?)
So if usage ('burn-rate') is similar, it's simply moved more stock than usual from petrol station to vehicles so there should soon be a lull in purchase demand that will allow time for forecourt supplies to replenish, unless stupid people continue to insist on brimming their tanks even when they're not using much. Modern supply chains tend to try to minimise inventory and move material in smaller, more frequent batches from supply to demand. In the case of vehicle fuel, the hazards from large-scale bulk storage are a limiting consideration too. All fine in steady-state but the downside is that they are often less resilient to sudden and dramatic changes in supply and demand.
In my case, I managed to get a £30 limited top-up yesterday to take my car from low-fuel warning light level to just over 1/2 full. I estimate that should be good for a couple of weeks (unless work suddenly insists I commute to the office more often) so I probably won't worry about seeking more fuel for at least a week or 10 days. Will it have blown over or am I a fool to be so relaxed about it?
I don't agree that this national fuel supply problem is caused by a severe driver shortage linked to Brexit - If we did I'm sure we'd have been facing this problem months ago. (I can recall regularly seeing odd pumps with the "out-of-use" labels on them, both before and after Brexit, but has anyone had any real problems getting fuel since Brexit 'go-live'?) Sure, the driver issues will have limited the ability to respond to the increased buying, but right now IMHO this event was caused by media-fuelled (sic) agenda-driven hysteria off the back of localised things that happen routinely all the time.
BTW - it's extremely difficult, if not impossible to book a practical test this side of Xmas (in the North West)
Similar in East Midlands. As it happens, one of my sons has been trying to get an HGV re-test. Having to co-ordinate via a training school to ensure he has a suitable vehicle to hire and gets some pre-test refresher practice. He's been in touch wth several but all report the same: Availability is like rocking-horse poop.
What makes it more farcical is the only reason he failed previously is that he clipped a kerb as a result of instinctively swerving and slowing to avoid colliding with the car that suddenly cut across in front of him making a late lane change after undertaking to turn right around an island. Clipping a kerb is a "major" fault on test - instant fail. For test purposes it seems he'd have been better holding his position and letting the car bash into him!:rolleyes:
strange how they introduce E10 and all of a sudden there is a shortage... technically should there not be more, 5% more nationally. or is there actually a shortage of ethanol...
Relevant :)
https://newsthump.com/2021/09/27/army-to-attend-cabinet-meetings-to-address-competence-shortage/
svenrico
27-09-21, 11:48 PM
Heard on radio that there is a backlog of 20,000 at DVLA of HGV licences waiting to be processed. Doesn't surprise me after my experience a few years ago when my license was revoked due to a medical condition. It took 6 months after I was passed fit to drive before I got it back. After numerous telephone calls ,letters - even the DVLA medical dept eventually said they couldn't understand what had been going on !
svenrico
27-09-21, 11:53 PM
There is no doubt a shortage of delivery drivers but there is no shortage of fuel , the current problem is caused by panic buying.
svenrico
28-09-21, 10:46 PM
Morrisons were out of petrol when we arrived to shop yesterday but tanker there and cars starting to queue as we left. Filled up bike at a local garage today ,£40 limit (which didn't affect me on bike obviously ) but no queues. On my trip I passed another 3 garages serving petrol with no cars queuing.
someone i know has just recently passed their HGV but cant get a job driving artics. its not just about having an HGV licence its companies refusing to take on inexperienced drivers. again the media is scaremongering the public.
why this country cant use freight train and short haul is beyond me. this would reduce road traffic and use less fuel.
why this country cant use freight train and short haul is beyond me. this would reduce road traffic and use less fuel.
https://www.railfreight.com/railfreight/2021/09/02/uk-rail-freight-can-answer-the-truck-driver-crisis/?gdpr=accept
First, you need a plan...
...does the plan involve profit for donors and friends of the Conservative Party?
No? Don't bother with the plan.
Nobbylad
29-09-21, 11:42 AM
someone i know has just recently passed their HGV but cant get a job driving artics. its not just about having an HGV licence its companies refusing to take on inexperienced drivers. again the media is scaremongering the public.
why this country cant use freight train and short haul is beyond me. this would reduce road traffic and use less fuel.
Lack of infrastructure, supply chain agility/flexibility (JIT purchasing/delivery), cost etc all play a part. Road haulage solves a lot of these problems and in my area, there are tons of roles for newly qualified drivers w/o experience. :thumbsup:
someone i know has just recently passed their HGV but cant get a job driving artics. its not just about having an HGV licence its companies refusing to take on inexperienced drivers. ......
What I heard was that insurance companies wouldn't give cover for inexperienced drivers, so hauliers couldn't employ them.
My Mother works at a Petrol Station for one of the large Supermarkets. They had a delivery last night of 14,000 litres of Diesel.
They open at 5AM, and by 7PM half of it was gone. And by 10AM they were closed . . . .
went shopping late at about 8pm last night. got me daily shopping then seen there were a good few spaces for fuel so popped into one and started filled tank with diesel. i thought there was a limit and was waiting for the pump to cut off at some point but it just kept going. that'll do me for another month or so. btw i always use my fuel till about 1/4 tank then brim my tank when i fill up as i hate going to the petrol station.
Craig380
01-10-21, 08:21 PM
I went to my local Shell today and there was a short queue of 4 cars. Not bad, I thought, I'll wait. Turns out the queue wasn't because of fuel shortages, but was caused by an old lady who'd stopped 6 feet from the pump on her side, which meant she was also blocking access to the pumps on the other side of her 'lane'.
Sir Trev
02-10-21, 10:26 AM
l always use my fuel till about 1/4 tank then brim my tank when i fill up as i hate going to the petrol station.
So do I, for the same reason.
It's almost time for Hugh to go into hibernation (unlacquered casings and salt do not play well) and I really need to fill the tank to minimise condensation first. But I really don't want to go out there if it's still chaos.
So do I, for the same reason.
It's almost time for Hugh to go into hibernation (unlacquered casings and salt do not play well) and I really need to fill the tank to minimise condensation first. But I really don't want to go out there if it's still chaos.
Jerry can?
i personally think that you would now be better to empty the system due to E10 and mist the inside of the tank with something like ACF50 or 2T.
garynortheast
02-10-21, 11:03 AM
If you are going to fill the tank Trev, it might be as well to use some of this fuel stabiliser (https://www.sta-bil.co.uk/products/sta-bil-storage-fuel-stabilizer-4-sizes)
Run the engine for a couple of minutes once you've added it to make sure it's in fuel lines too.
Most of my local Petrol Stations seems to have fuel today. Managed to get out to fill the bike up with a relatively short wait, ready for commuting next week.
"Track and Trace" for petrol. :)
https://newsthump.com/2021/09/27/government-unveils-guaranteed-to-work-petrol-track-trace-app-to-beat-fuel-crisis/
Sir Trev
02-10-21, 04:22 PM
Jerry can?
Right at the moment I would probably feel eyes boring into me as I filled nothing but my 5 litre can, with everyone thinking I was a hoarder. The fact my lawnmower needs it and I used the last of the can in the mower a couple of weeks ago means nothing to judgmental a-holes these days. I could also squeeze 10 litres or so into the car but I just don't need it right now and again I'd be branded a panic buyer (even though it's a week after this fuss all started).
If you are going to fill the tank Trev, it might be as well to use some of this fuel stabiliser (https://www.sta-bil.co.uk/products/sta-bil-storage-fuel-stabilizer-4-sizes)
Run the engine for a couple of minutes once you've added it to make sure it's in fuel lines too.
I have some stabiliser in the garage already so was indeed going to go this route. Much as Bib's suggestion of full drain is better for the system I'm a lazy so and so with spanners these days...
I managed to get petrol yesterday, limited to £35, I also filled my fuel can for topping up my sv, the looks I got from others at the pumps were daggers. One woman said 'do you think that's fair? I said ... my bike needs fuel too and I can't ride and drive at the same time, and btw ...your Audi Q8 uses more fuel than both my car and bike put together, do you think that's fair? She soon stopped her bitching!
svenrico
02-10-21, 09:53 PM
I managed to get petrol yesterday, limited to £35, I also filled my fuel can for topping up my sv, the looks I got from others at the pumps were daggers. One woman said 'do you think that's fair? I said ... my bike needs fuel too and I can't ride and drive at the same time, and btw ...your Audi Q8 uses more fuel than both my car and bike put together, do you think that's fair? She soon stopped her bitching!
Nice one :)
chris8886
02-10-21, 09:53 PM
I managed to get petrol yesterday, limited to £35, I also filled my fuel can for topping up my sv, the looks I got from others at the pumps were daggers. One woman said 'do you think that's fair? I said ... my bike needs fuel too and I can't ride and drive at the same time, and btw ...your Audi Q8 uses more fuel than both my car and bike put together, do you think that's fair? She soon stopped her bitching!
Excellent response that.
SV650rules
03-10-21, 07:40 AM
If you are going to fill the tank Trev, it might be as well to use some of this fuel stabiliser (https://www.sta-bil.co.uk/products/sta-bil-storage-fuel-stabilizer-4-sizes)
Run the engine for a couple of minutes once you've added it to make sure it's in fuel lines too.
+1 for Stabil, I still put a glug of Redex in as well though...
Boris says he knew about HGV driver shortage for a "long, long time".
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-admits-known-lorry-102227425.html
So...
...why didn't he have plans to alleviate the problem?
but then he explains that it's necessary...
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-petrol-crisis-pig-113225705.html
as part of Brexit transition.
Hmm. If your plan is to move a higher paid driver scenario that sounds good but I'm not sure why we need to endure the pain if we could have made contingency plans. It sounds more like they were asleep at the wheel.
If the plan is to use pain to enforce a lesson, the only message I got was that things worked better when we had EU drivers freely available.
SV650rules
03-10-21, 12:58 PM
No good ignoring the shortage of 400,000 lorry drivers in EU, and also big shortages in USA, obviously not caused by Brexit then.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/09/28/uk-lorry-driver-shortage-a-stark-example-of-a-wider-european-problem
Whether they knew about it or not, or were using it for leverage is pretty much irrelevant as we are now in the situation with no quick resolution available.
There is no quick fix, and there will be short term pain until we have enough drivers.
IMO, it's just another show of this Governments incompetence to run the country. Ignoring the advice of those 'in the know' and doing their own thing instead . . . . .
No good ignoring the shortage of 400,000 lorry drivers in EU, and also big shortages in USA, obviously not caused by Brexit then.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/09/28/uk-lorry-driver-shortage-a-stark-example-of-a-wider-european-problem
You're missing the point. BoZo knew we had a problem in advance but did nothing.
If I know my roof may leak when it next rains I don't wait until it's actually raining before I call a roofer beacuse that would be moronic.
Bozo is exactly that ... 'a bozo' always has been and always will be. This Tory government is the worst I have ever seen, and now Labour has torn itself to pieces, the Tories have zero opposition and do pretty much exactly as they please making rubbish decisions one after another. I've always been an advocate of putting suitably qualified people in the jobs they were meant/trained to do, no matter what government has been in power ... it's always been 'jobs for the boys', government positions filled by personell that have no right to be there and no clue as to what it takes to do their job properly anyway, and Boris ' silly haircut' Johnson is just another one of those blah blah bull@#it merchants.
i sometimes think that people have the wrong idea about politicians. its not their job to make descensions its their job to spin what they are told to do by the people in the background that we dont get to vote for. politicians sit in chamber and argue with each other about how the country is run and laws etc.etc. ideas are put forward and then passed onto the people in the background who then say yes or no to funds etc.etc.
its the advisors who are the idiots.
lets take an average household with income at a set rate. they cant make any more money out their job so how do they make ends meat? simple answer is to tighten their belts and juggle things around or go see a financial adviser or get a loan from the bank.. our government is no different except they have the power to take money from people in the street which they are not doing for fear of loosing votes... the wheels on the bus go round and round.....
SV650rules
03-10-21, 03:56 PM
You're missing the point. BoZo knew we had a problem in advance but did nothing.
If I know my roof may leak when it next rains I don't wait until it's actually raining before I call a roofer beacuse that would be moronic.
Not missing the point at all, one of the largest driver shortages in EU is in Germany, pretty much of same magnitude as UK shortage, is their government useless and irresponsible as well for not planning for the shortage, and they cannot even blame Brexit.
Biker Biggles
03-10-21, 04:02 PM
Boris says he knew about HGV driver shortage for a "long, long time".
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-admits-known-lorry-102227425.html
So...
...why didn't he have plans to alleviate the problem?
but then he explains that it's necessary...
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-petrol-crisis-pig-113225705.html
as part of Brexit transition.
Hmm. If your plan is to move a higher paid driver scenario that sounds good but I'm not sure why we need to endure the pain if we could have made contingency plans. It sounds more like they were asleep at the wheel.
If the plan is to use pain to enforce a lesson, the only message I got was that things worked better when we had EU drivers freely available.
Boris has finally got a plan----In order to get to the sunlit uplands we are going to have to take some strong medicine, and there will be side effects, but that will be a price worth paying. I wonder where the half witted buffoon borrowed that rhetoric from. Some of us are old enough to remember
one of the largest driver shortages in EU is in Germany, pretty much of same magnitude as UK shortage, is their government useless and irresponsible as well for not planning for the shortage, and they cannot even blame Brexit.
No, because they are not suffering shortages in the shops, whereas we are.
https://trans.info/en/there-s-a-europe-wide-hgv-driver-shortage-so-why-do-uk-supply-chains-seem-more-disrupted-254524
So the point is; if the Germans and the Poles can manage the problem why can't we, and the answer is our hopeless government. Assuming that a civil servant was even tasked to come up with a plan (and the evidence suggests they were not), the responsibility for failure lies with the transport minister. If you recall over the last few days he has blamed everyone except the tooth fairy and himself, but when have you ever heard a Conservative minister accept responsibility recently?
Don't forget also that we are not currently checking incoming goods from the EU because we haven't got the systems in place (how long does it take?). Once that starts it will increase delays and shortages more.
johnnyrod
04-10-21, 05:22 PM
The only people left who think our problems aren't Brexit are the Brexiters. There are less than 52% of them in the world though.
ethariel
05-10-21, 11:22 PM
People complain the government knew about the shortages and did nothing!
However most of the same people would be moaning if the government started making dispensations/investing public money for lorry drivers a few years back to keep numbers up.
As a politician you have to be able to lie out of your **** while keeping a straight face and having skin thicker than a whale.
At the end of the day there are 3 ways of dealing with politics
1- Vote
2- Don't vote, stick your head in the sand and mumble idontmatterwhybothervoting over and over.
3- Get into politics and change it from the inside out (tho i'll lay odds that you will be just as corrupt as the rest a few years down the line)
If you are a 1 or a 3 then good on you, if your a 2, well its your choice to ignore things just stay quiet about it.
People complain the government knew about the shortages and did nothing!
If you recall, industry complained endlessly about the lack of clarity and information during the Brexit negotiations making it hard to plan anything.
However most of the same people would be moaning if the government started making dispensations/investing public money for lorry drivers a few years back to keep numbers up
Personally, I would have seen it as planning ahead and been in favour but I don't seem to think like most people (not saying I'm better by any stretch).
One question is who should have built rest areas for truckers? I would have thought that was infrastructure, certainly industry should have at least made noises about improving conditions. It is laughable that Conservatives are complaining about relying on low paid EU drivers when capitalism demands ever increasing profits and Tories are/were "business friendly". Nothing was said when outsourcing sent support hubs overseas and manufacturing went soon after.
I vote (of course) but I live in a constituency that always votes Tory so my vote never counts. I write endless emails to my MP who no longer responds (I may have been a bit rude). My neighbour buys the Daily Mail, never reads the politics section and is aghast when I explain what the government is doing. She doesn't have a passport and is giving up her car so, if the proposed voting bill is enacted she won't be able to vote. She has previously voted Tory(until the last election - my one success).
So whose fault is it that I see shortages? I think the pig example is the best - UK pigs are being (or going to be) culled because of a shortage of drivers and butchers. (no EU workers). Meanwhile we are importing EU pork which is not being checked because government hasn't set anything up yet. Insanity. Are the supermarkets to blame by demanding low prices from suppliers forcing the meat industry to use lower paid workers? It keeps coming back to profit...
I see both sides being at fault - the government's vagueness on how the Brexit rules would affect business (teething problems they called it) and industry for reacting too slowly. As far as I can tell they only seem to communicate through the media, if so, that needs to change asap.
I like the concept of what Boris is trying to achieve (never thought I'd say that - ever) but I don't see it working - prices will rise, wages will possibly rise and people will buy less. Unemployment will rise, economic growth will slow and we have stagflation (it took 10 years for Japan to shake that off).
Buckle up, it's going to get bumpy. (I remember the 70s :( ).
svenrico
06-10-21, 09:28 PM
People complain the government knew about the shortages and did nothing!
However most of the same people would be moaning if the government started making dispensations/investing public money for lorry drivers a few years back to keep numbers up.
As a politician you have to be able to lie out of your **** while keeping a straight face and having skin thicker than a whale.
At the end of the day there are 3 ways of dealing with politics
1- Vote
2- Don't vote, stick your head in the sand and mumble idontmatterwhybothervoting over and over.
3- Get into politics and change it from the inside out (tho i'll lay odds that you will be just as corrupt as the rest a few years down the line)
If you are a 1 or a 3 then good on you, if your a 2, well its your choice to ignore things just stay quiet about it.
- or have politicians who know what they are doing !
SV650rules
07-10-21, 08:24 AM
John F Kennedy had a sensible mother, she said 'John, I have no problem with you becoming President, but the trouble starts when you become a politician'..... ( or something similar ). Most of our politicians studied either law or finance, hence the reason for the absolutely massive number of laws we have on statute book in UK, and the huge amount we borrow every year. There is zero chance of a scientist or engineer becoming a politician ( OK maybe Maggie T who was studied Chemistry, but she was a rare case ).
svenrico
07-10-21, 10:57 AM
John F Kennedy had a sensible mother, she said 'John, I have no problem with you becoming President, but the trouble starts when you become a politician'..... ( or something similar ). Most of our politicians studied either law or finance, hence the reason for the absolutely massive number of laws we have on statute book in UK, and the huge amount we borrow every year. There is zero chance of a scientist or engineer becoming a politician ( OK maybe Maggie T who was studied Chemistry, but she was a rare case ).
Kevin Hollinrake our MP (although boss of Hunters estate agents ) has a degree in chemical engineering, but yes, the exception to the rule.
back to petrol (non) shortage. Were stocks low because stations were emptying tanks to be ready for E10 switch over?
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/exclusive-government-switch-greener-fuel-124545377.html
(original story from Conservative mouthpiece, Telegraph)
for balance: DOT denies veracity of story.
SV650rules
08-10-21, 08:37 AM
I am sure our local service stations were using it as an excuse to sell people 97 and 99 octane ( higher price of course ) - the 95 octane pumps and diesel were all locked off, business opportunity ?
back to petrol (non) shortage. Were stocks low because stations were emptying tanks to be ready for E10 switch over?
I can't see any point in that. No need to empty an E5 storage tank to fill it up with E10.
E10 is "up to" 10% ethanol, so absolutely no issue if it is mixed with an amount of E5, it will still be "E10" technically so satisfying the label. All will be >95RON so no issue.
I imagine all petrol outlets would rather sell petrol than not, so pointless engineering some sort of shortage from the retail point of view. Total used over time will be more if it is in ready supply than if it is restricted. Too many conspiracy theories, easy option.
The only deliberate aspect which I could imagine being feasible is if the haulage/petro industry wanted to concentrate some political minds having drawn a complete blank over many months of raising the issue. It might be their equivalent of gluing a hand or two to a motorway slip road.
As our illustrious leader Mr. "Sasha" Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson tells us, everything is fine and going to plan, what's the problem? Sunshine is on the horizon, milk and honey will abound.
Sir Trev
09-10-21, 04:20 PM
Took three garages but I got some fuel ahead of Hugh's likely winter layover today. I could only get regular E10 unleaded which was annoying but all the E95 Super pumps were taped up. Will add stabiliser tomorrow, leave diary reminders to agitate the tank every month or so (may not stop separation but it will make me feel better) and hope for the best.
Took three garages but I got some fuel ahead of Hugh's likely winter layover today.
You're still having fuel shortages?
Re: winter storage - If you're definitely not riding have you considered a vac-bag for the bike?
https://www.vac-bag.co.uk/motorcycle-vac-bags.html
The ethanol in petrol grabs the water from the air (over an extended period) if there's no air, there isn't a problem. I was considering one before I bought a dehumidifier.
Sir Trev
09-10-21, 07:06 PM
You're still having fuel shortages?
Yes. This is the southest, home of the worst kind of selfish me, me, me **** imaginable, and poor tanker scheduling it seems. I was down to 25 miles of range too but the pump jockey still looked at me as if I was just topping off, forgetting that bike tanks are so much smaller cars.
svenrico
09-10-21, 11:38 PM
It might be their equivalent of gluing a hand or two to a motorway slip road. That's a particularly ****ty tactic isn't it
As our illustrious leader Mr. "Sasha" Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson tells us, everything is fine and going to plan, what's the problem? Sunshine is on the horizon, milk and honey will abound.
We've had enough uncertainty, now getting the disruption and chaos. Wonder what these good times they forecast are going to be !
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