View Full Version : £82,000...
... it's grim having to live on such a small amount.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-salary-peter-bottomley-b1933668.html
(announced same day as £20 UC cut)
Maybe at 77 yrs old he should retire. (as should all MPs when they reach 60).
garynortheast
07-10-21, 08:53 AM
...
Maybe at 77 yrs old he should retire. (as should all MPs when they reach 60).
And try living on a state pension......
Luckypants
07-10-21, 10:38 AM
Especially as most of his living expenses are covered by Parliamentary expenses. Not to mention his copper bottomed pension when he does retire.
Postscript - Bottomley voted to cut welfare 49 times...
https://www.joe.co.uk/news/mp-who-said-82k-salary-was-really-grim-voted-to-slash-welfare-49-times-292741
Luckypants
08-10-21, 07:44 AM
He's been an MP almost 50 years. No idea of real life as he's spent his cosseted from life's bumps by privilege and good pay.
how much do high ranking officers in the forces get paid?
he made a career choice to be an MP and serve the public. its not his fault that he gets paid that amount.
its not his fault that he gets paid that amount.
no, but he's complaining it's too little and he should be getting £100k, expecting the tax payer to pay him more at the same time denying low income people benefits.
£82k is 3x the average UK income.
Adam Ef
09-10-21, 10:34 AM
KHdzkBhyweY
Larry and Paul do excellent political satire. Life imitates art? Some wag has started a Gofundme for Bottomley - last I heard it had reached £70. :)
Bibio: We have more Admirals than ships now, and they NEVER retire!
What really winds me up is the poor pension we Brits get. Much lower than Germany for example, and much lower than the government's much touted minimum wage.
Try living on that why don't ya!
garynortheast
19-10-21, 02:28 PM
What really winds me up is the poor pension we Brits get. Much lower than Germany for example, and much lower than the government's much touted minimum wage.
Try living on that why don't ya!
I am trying to live on it. I have no private pension and I can manage only because I am living temporarily rent free on a friend's smallholding (I help with the growing of food in lieu of rent), utility bills are tiny as there are solar panels on the roof, and I have a cheap mobile phone tariff and no landline.
I need to be moving into my own rented property sometime over the next 6 - 9 months and tbh I can not for the life of me see how my state pension will come anywhere near covering even basic living costs, especially with rents at the currently insane levels they have reached over the last couple of years.
politicians pay income tax like everyone else so 1/3 of their wages goes back. i personally think politicians should be paid more. lets face it there is only about 650 of them.
i heard that the head of fife council gets paid more than what the prime minister gets paid. tell me that's fair.
keith_d
27-10-21, 09:46 AM
politicians pay income tax like everyone else so 1/3 of their wages goes back. i personally think politicians should be paid more. lets face it there is only about 650 of them.
i heard that the head of fife council gets paid more than what the prime minister gets paid. tell me that's fair.
Ooh, another interesting and complicated question. As a society how do we decide who gets paid what??
For some people pay comes down to supply and demand. For example there are only a few hundred top class footballers in the world. If you want the top players in your club you have to pay top dollar. Conversely, there are about 55 million of us who could sweep the streets and there's only a small number of jobs doing it. So pay is going to be rock bottom.
Within organisations it's mostly down to a mix of incentives and retention. The incentive to go the extra mile is the chance that you will get promoted, and therefore be paid more. So there has to be a salary progression between bottom and top of the organisation. Retention is the supply and demand element of pay, and loosely reflects the market for the skills needed to do a particular job.
For unique jobs like MPs it's much harder to judge a 'fair' salary. Personally, I think something like three times the national average (including people on the dole) would be a good starting point. That way they have an incentive to make everyone better off because that would increase their salary too.
Just my thoughts,
Keith.
Adam Ef
27-10-21, 10:19 AM
i heard that the head of fife council gets paid more than what the prime minister gets paid. tell me that's fair.
Do they have other incomes too like most politicians? Do they predominantly come from wealthy backgrounds?
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/these-are-the-mps-earning-the-most-from-their-second-jobs-and-how-much-they-make-3007595
Should they be allowed second jobs? Paterson is in trouble because he repeatedly used his position to benefit 2 companies that paid him as a consultant. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59049343
They cannot be trusted to be an MP and have a second job. Boris has changed the rules on ethics investigations (after Patel got away with her bullying) they now have to cleared through him first (they used to be independent). His new investigator works for an arms company with a history of corruption allegations.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/boris-johnsons-new-ethics-adviser-works-for-arms-company/
do politicians who dont get voted into office still get a salary from the gov purse? if they dont then how else are they supposed to make money and still be a candidate for elections?
are they just supposed to drop their job when they become elected and hope for the best come the next election.
According to The Spectator it costs about £34k to become an MP (2014 figures) but the party has to have chosen you as a candidate (can take 2 years). If you lose the election, you're not an MP and don't get paid, which is why most candidates are reasonably well off to begin with, and there's a call for a bursary to be provided (taxpayer funded).
About 20% of MPs have a second job of some type (130 MPs approx).
do politicians who dont get voted into office still get a salary from the gov purse? if they dont then how else are they supposed to make money and still be a candidate for elections?
are they just supposed to drop their job when they become elected and hope for the best come the next election.
I think the "party" generally funds prospective candidates. (Not that I like the party system and I would supprt change there to get better candidate pools for voters to choose from.)
And yes, I think they should drop their current job if elected. Plenty of real world folk deal with fixed term contracts without guarantee of renewal. Risk of unemployment due to underperformance sounds like it could be a good thing for me (if one believes in competition to keep standards up).
Perhaps they should do like the rest of us are advised to do, and put some of their (considerable) salary aside into an emergency account to tide them over in case they unexpectedly get made unemployed? Or train in a real-world marketable skill to fall back on if their chosen career plan doesn't pan out?
About 20% of MPs have a second job of some type (130 MPs approx).
What I can't fathom is how they can have time to do second jobs! Being an MP is hardly clock-on, clock-off shift work. There's always plenty to do to deal with constituency or national matters.
For me, it should be one of the rules to avoid [perception of] conflict of interest that they can't have second jobs while they're MPs. I definitely don't want them distracted by active second job considerations. All efforts whilst 'in service' should be put into making the country better. Remuneration is good, most costs can be expensed, they're hardly on the breadline. (Besides, if they're any good they'll make enough contacts to be more than fine after serving anyway - that must be worth something.)
What I can't fathom is how they can have time to do second jobs! Being an MP is hardly clock-on, clock-off shift work. There's always plenty to do to deal with constituency or national matters.
I think your problem is defining "work". David Davis MP is an "external advisor" to JCB, he advises them 20 hours per year for £60,000.
He also "works" for Mansfelder Kupfer und Messing (German manufacturing company) for 6 months for £36,000, not sure how many hours he has to put in here but he is known for being lazy, so not too many. He used to be the Brexit negotiator until he was relieved for being useless (and lazy).
BoZo used to get £23,000/month for writing a Telegraph column and one speaking engagement netted £29,000 (before he was PM).
They don't need to put in much time to rake in the money.
....David Davis MP .... He used to be the Brexit negotiator until he was relieved for being useless (and lazy).
.
Oh come on now. Even the EU Commission said he had regular meetings with them while Brexit Minister.
Four meetings in 2 years, that's one meeting every six months, regular as clockwork.
Adam Ef
28-10-21, 10:36 AM
Sorry I should have said other income(s), not other "jobs", as they're not jobs as you or I know them. Not jobs that use all your waking hours and keep you exhausted enough to not rise up and instead behave like a good minion at the bottom of the money churning pyramid... oops, getting carried away. (Can you tell I'm at work today dealing with random acts of idiocy?)
I think your problem is defining "work". David Davis MP is an "external advisor" to JCB, he advises them 20 hours per year for £60,000.
He also "works" for Mansfelder Kupfer und Messing (German manufacturing company) for 6 months for £36,000, not sure how many hours he has to put in here but he is known for being lazy, so not too many. He used to be the Brexit negotiator until he was relieved for being useless (and lazy).
BoZo used to get £23,000/month for writing a Telegraph column and one speaking engagement netted £29,000 (before he was PM).
They don't need to put in much time to rake in the money.
I know they get exhorbitant amounts for very little time spent. I can get over the rates, but I can't morally excuse the time lost to the core job, however little that time is. My gripe is purely about the time - any time away compromises the duty.
20 hours is still c.3 working days when he could be productively meeting constituents, researching government policies, reading and critiquing papers for debate in the House, hunting out efficiencies in his constituency office operation to keep expenses down.
Even if Bozo spent only a couple of hours each month writing those columns, that could have been spent dealing with correspondence more quickly, sorting cabinet discipline and alignment, contemplating national policy issues.
Etc. etc.
Being an MP, and especially being a Government Minister, is definitely not the same as a regular job. I do make a distinction. It should be an 'always-on' role (a bit like the principle of a soldier being deployed overseas to a battle zone), with time away from the demands of the core role being for proper R&R so they're fresh and on top form when they are 'on duty' dealing with MP activities. Time 'off duty' shouldn't be spent delivering work for others, however broad the definition of 'work'. Also, I think they should be 'independent' and solely dedicated to the interests of the nation as far as possible - paid activity undermines that and introduces a clear bias, or significant risk of it.
redtrummy
29-10-21, 04:33 PM
When I started my apprenticeship I went round all the various departments to get an understanding of what everyone did.I would like all these politicians to get out on the 'coal face' to see what life for the common man is really about.
svenrico
02-11-21, 11:53 PM
And try living on a state pension......
I am doing at the moment (although to be honest my wife is working part time and I do have a private pension to fall back on if needed ) Must have a frugal lifestyle !
svenrico
02-11-21, 11:54 PM
Especially as most of his living expenses are covered by Parliamentary expenses. Not to mention his copper bottomed pension when he does retire.
Yes, they made sure their pensions were protected didn't they.
svenrico
02-11-21, 11:58 PM
politicians pay income tax like everyone else so 1/3 of their wages goes back. i personally think politicians should be paid more. lets face it there is only about 650 of them.
i heard that the head of fife council gets paid more than what the prime minister gets paid. tell me that's fair.
A lot of chief officers of local councils will get paid more than the prime minister.
svenrico
03-11-21, 12:06 AM
When I started my apprenticeship I went round all the various departments to get an understanding of what everyone did.I would like all these politicians to get out on the 'coal face' to see what life for the common man is really about.
You would hope they aren't completely divorced from reality. How many of us know what is involved in other people's jobs anyway ?!
svenrico
03-11-21, 12:11 AM
As far as our MP's are concerned, I think they at least believe in the parliament they sit in. Not Like Mr Farage who got paid for years for being a member of a parliament he despised and wanted to destroy, and then is entitled to a pension for the time he was an MEP !
Well, I'm looking forward to the day when I can do a second job earning c.£1000/hr!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59218438
Being a Crack Wh0re can pay well.......so long as you don't spend all your money on Drugs.
... and the unethical Conservative MP of the week goes to...
Geoffrey Cox MP
Takes £400,000/yr as a barrister, dwelt 4000 miles from his Devon constituency (he was in the Caribbean) during the pandemic lockdown. Voted via Zoom.
Advises British Virgin Islands on how to defend themselves against UK government's tax haven charges.
What a guy!
Makes you proud to be British.
Well, I'm looking forward to the day when I can do a second job earning c.£1000/hr!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59218438
he never broke any rules, he's a lawyer so should know. he was doing his job.
tbh i would have done exactly the same given the chance. lets face it either go to the Caribbean before lockdown (and be forced to stay) and earn £1k an hr or stay at home having to put up with uk public.... he could still deal with his constituents/parliament via email.
i really dont get the politician bashing in this country. if people dont like what politicians do then why do they keep voting for the big two... its not the politicians fault that most of the public in this country are dumb as fek media wh0rez who believe everything they are told. its like lambs to the slaughter.
btw i'm no lover of the government but they are needed.
he never broke any rules, he's a lawyer so should know. he was doing his job.
i really dont get the politician bashing in this country.
btw i'm no lover of the government but they are needed.
What exactly is his job?
1) Barrister
2) Represent his constituency as an MP
MP's are supposed to be available for their constituents; he wasn't.
My biggest problem here though is the fact he was an MP of the ruling party helping a tax haven avoid the accusations put forward by his own party. That is a conflict of interest and it stinks.
Yes, government is needed but so is a sense of ethics. MPs get paid 2 or 3 times the average UK salary plus rent allowance for non-Londoners, plus expenses for running an office. (£3 million was claimed by Tories on housing expenses Apr-Nov 2020). As they often tell low paid workers who can't survive on their money; Get a different job if you cannot make ends meet.
They are either a public servant or not, second jobs should not be allowed.
We saw during the expenses debacle how much we can trust MPs. When they show some morals, maybe we'll stop bashing them, until then bash away.
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in, and we currently have the best government money can buy!
All prices negotiable.
Biker Biggles
10-11-21, 01:06 PM
I assume MPs are exempt from the working time legislation otherwise they could not possibly do all their various jobs within the statutory 48 hour week.
CheGuevara
10-11-21, 02:56 PM
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in, and we currently have the best government money can buy!
All prices negotiable.
Welcome Gordie! Was wondering when you might post.
Welcome Gordie! Was wondering when you might post.
Hey Che, thanks for the acknowledgement.
I see you are on the SZR site too. Small world, similar tastes. Good on ya!
CheGuevara
10-11-21, 05:43 PM
Hey Che, thanks for the acknowledgement.
I see you are on the SZR site too. Small world, similar tastes. Good on ya!
Yeah still waiting to get approval for the Facebook szr group. No idea what I'm doing wrong there.
......i really dont get the politician bashing in this country. .......
The politicians themselves are the biggest "bashers" of all, they all hate each other. You only have to watch a few minutes of PMQs to realise that. If it's good enough for them, and they should know what really goes on, then it's good enough for me.
There are a handful of MPs who come across as decent honourable folk, I'm sure there are a few more which I've not heard anything about. It's simply that I can't feel I trust many of them to be honest and decent. They do what they think they can get away with. They seem to think the worst thing is being found out.
I believe they speak highly of me.
he never broke any rules, he's a lawyer so should know. he was doing his job.
tbh i would have done exactly the same given the chance. lets face it either go to the Caribbean before lockdown (and be forced to stay) and earn £1k an hr or stay at home having to put up with uk public.... he could still deal with his constituents/parliament via email.
i really dont get the politician bashing in this country. if people dont like what politicians do then why do they keep voting for the big two... its not the politicians fault that most of the public in this country are dumb as fek media wh0rez who believe everything they are told. its like lambs to the slaughter.
btw i'm no lover of the government but they are needed.
I have envy of that level of income, of course, I admit that. But that wasn't my point.
I don't understand why, if he was wanting to continue with his lucrative job as a Barrister/Legal Adviser, he would choose to become an MP to serve the country by representing a constituency. Clearly he isn't willing to dedicate his life to public service if he won't give up the former job (or reduce it to the bare minimum required to retain a professional competence). He can't deal with constituents/parilament well if he's occupied with other things. IMHO, that's enough for me to legitimately query if he's the type we want in those positions.:confused:
My criticism isn't of the individual, it's of the system. I agree we have some means to change it, if enough of us vote differently, but gaining that volume of support seems a small, unlikely possibility.
Politician bashing is because reality increasingly falls short of the promises made. OK, so it's not their fault that the masses should know better, but that doesn't excuse them from selling snake-oil. They're supposed to set and uphold 'the standard', not take advantage of its limitations just because it's not breaking the rules.
I agree we need a Government. But we need them, and MPs as a collective, to have a very high moral and ethical mindset if they are to create good statutory framework and policy (that the rest of us will have little choice but to abide by).
The politicians themselves are the biggest "bashers" of all, they all hate each other. You only have to watch a few minutes of PMQs to realise that. If it's good enough for them, and they should know what really goes on, then it's good enough for me.
I agree. The system nowadays seems to be based around power and fear, bullying and intimidation. The skills of nuanced, informed debating and respectful persuasion seem to have been lost. Mind you, it based on the concept of "the whip" to enforce discipline, so should we be surprised?!
There are a handful of MPs who come across as decent honourable folk, I'm sure there are a few more which I've not heard anything about. It's simply that I can't feel I trust many of them to be honest and decent. They do what they think they can get away with. They seem to think the worst thing is being found out.
I believe they speak highly of me.
I've met a number of MPs professionally in the course of my day jobs
It's true, many MPs are pretty decent, trying to be diligent and good constituency representatives. (It's seems to be a bit of a no-win situation tbh - you generally can't please everyone so there's always someone who complains or protests.) Unfortunately, it also seems that the lure and higher profile of the front benches, and the responsibilities and expectations that brings, ends up creating a different beast altogether.
I'm pretty sure some definitely wouldn't speak highly of me! A notable event was that I was once subject of a Freedom Of Information requested issued by a Cabinet-level MP. I was sponsoring a major project of the company I worked for in his constituency and we wouldn't simply do what he wanted (because it wasn't consistent with our responsibilities and considerations) so he in essence claimed we were corrupt and determined to plough on regardless, and then used FOI as a threatening tactic intended to get us to change our approach. Ah, the irony - his anger and single-minded, blinkered determination at the meeting we had was palpable! His way seemed to be the only acceptable option for him. I was actually more disappointed by the experience than anything: I wanted to witness an astute influencer up close but instead I saw nothing more refined than a toddler temper tantrum. Sad, really.
Couldn't say, but I'll mention you on the site and see what happens.
Have you applied as Che Guevara there?
CheGuevara
11-11-21, 09:42 AM
Couldn't say, but I'll mention you on the site and see what happens.
Have you applied as Che Guevara there?
Thanks Gordie. I've PMed you here so as not to derail the thread too much :)
If true, this is why we bash MPs:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/geoffrey-cox-taxpayer-funded-flat-b1955687.html
and he missed Commons votes this week while on a business trip to Mauritius.
_____
Since the COP26 conference is not going so well, do we need to have a whip round to buy a fridge for Boris to hide in? :)
More bashing...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-rent-expenses-geoffrey-cox-b1956146.html
tldr? 17 MPs (5 in Bozo's cabinet) are renting out their London homes and we, the taxpayer, are paying for them to rent (£1.3 miilion of our money on expenses)
More bashing...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-rent-expenses-geoffrey-cox-b1956146.html
tldr? 17 MPs (5 in Bozo's cabinet) are renting out their London homes and we, the taxpayer, are paying for them to rent (£1.3 miilion of our money on expenses)
i cant read the whole story but does it mention where the mp's are renting the the other property's?
lets say that the mp's stay out of london, cant afford their own home or have a mortgage but under the rules have a property in london. they rent the property in london to subsidise the other property they actually live in. they might even "flat share" with their tenant in london when at commons.
so instead of letting the property that they are entitled to sit empty they are letting someone stay there. ok so they could have refused the property due to moral grounds but lets face it would you? how about they get the money that the property is worth as a one off payment instead? they are entitled to the property.
i would do exactly the same given the chance.
its not the politicians that cause the problems in this country but the fekin media.
i cant read the whole story but does it mention where the mp's are renting the the other property's?
"Former attorney general Sir Geoffrey Cox (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/geoffrey-cox) sparked outrage after it emerged that he was claiming £1,900 a month for his taxpayer-funded flat while claiming a rental income from a home elsewhere in London."
its not the politicians that cause the problems in this country but the fekin media.
I disagree. If it wasn't for the media highlighting this ̶c̶r̶o̶o̶k̶e̶d̶ unethical behaviour, we would never learn how dishonest our MPs can be, BoZo is desparate to undermine the independent watchdogs.
The Priti Patel fiasco is now going to court because BoZo overruled the watchdog's report on her (guilty) behaviour.
The head of the ethics watchdog resigned over this and BoZo didn't replace him for 6 months and then with the option of (BoZo) choosing which matters get investigated - so much for an independent watchdog.
We don't have a written constitution but we have unwritten rules that MPs are supposed to follow, these rules are enforced by independent watchdogs. If their independence is removed, our democracy is at risk.
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