Older drivers and careless driving

[Seeker]

On the face of it the headline sounds bad:

"Older drivers won't get penalty points for running red lights*"
(*or other acts of careless driving)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/older-drivers-wont-penalty-points-25596956

However, they must take a test to evaulate whether they are still fit to drive and could lose their license if not, so I suppose it is better than giving them points and allowing them to continue.
It's a proposal at this stage.

[Biker Biggles]

Good idea but why just for older drivers? We already use education(at a price) for minor speeding offences so why not expand that for all sorts of minor traffic violations? I seem to recall that older drivers are not regarded as more dangerous than other groups, rather the opposite, so better not to pick on them.

[Bibio]

there are good drivers and bad drivers of all ages. the above is a step in the right direction though. i still say resit every licence renewal for EVERYONE.

a good starting point would be to teach people to actually drive instead of passing an exam.

i find myself shaking my head more and more often while out driving. modern standard of driving is abysmal.

[svenrico]

i still say resit every licence renewal for EVERYONE.
You might change your mind if you had to resit it and failed !

[Bibio]

You might change your mind if you had to resit it and failed !
nope.. would mean that i'm not fit to drive on the road and i would take it on the chin. would mean that i needed to brush up n my driving skills and would take lessons.

for those individuals that constantly fail then a ban should be in order.

i'm sick of paying high insurance premiums due to incompetent drivers.

[svenrico]

nope.. would mean that i'm not fit to drive on the road and i would take it on the chin. would mean that i needed to brush up n my driving skills and would take lessons.

for those individuals that constantly fail then a ban should be in order.

i'm sick of paying high insurance premiums due to incompetent drivers.
Well good luck to anybody getting their licence back from the DVLA when they do pass (if they had been banned for failing initially ) Several years ago I had my licence revoked because of sleep apnoea and it took until August to get it back from DVLA even though I was passed fit to drive in February thanks to CPAP treatment.

[embee]

Here's something else we all need to be aware of.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/355693/cars-give-way-cyclists-when-turning-left-or-right

[ethariel]

Well the good thing is that the 'Highway Code' is just guidance or 'Best Practice' and not actually law it's self.

It refers to Law in many sections but the rest..............

[Biker Biggles]

Well the good thing is that the 'Highway Code' is just guidance or 'Best Practice' and not actually law it's self.

It refers to Law in many sections but the rest..............


Some of it is law and those bits that are just guidance can put you on the wrong side of the law if you dont follow them and are involved in an incident.

[Bibio]

Here's something else we all need to be aware of.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/355693/cars-give-way-cyclists-when-turning-left-or-right

ermm cyclists, horse riders and pedestrians have always had the right of way as they dont have to abide by the "code". its only motorised vehicle drivers that have to abide.

when i was younger one of my mates got charged with "drunk in charge of a pushbike" but the charge was dropped as he was on Queens land and it was not a special Queens constable (we called them parkies) that charged him :D

[embee]

This is the tricky bit (taken directly from the link text, assuming that is representative of the forthcoming statute)
"Pedestrians currently have priority over cars only if they are already crossing a road into - or from which - a car is turning, but a new Rule H2 gives priority to pedestrians who are waiting, mandating vehicles stop to let them cross."

The problems start when pedestrians who don't know the rules (and they won't) stand at the kerb looking at the car which has stopped part way round a corner not knowing what to do. Then they walk into the road and a car coming the other way who doesn't understand the rules fails to stop. (make up your own alternative scenarios).
We all know what happens at roundabouts where someone starts to move off then stops, and this could potentially happen at any and every junction where a pedestrian stands at the kerb.
I can't imagine the details of the law will be publicised widely, they rarely are, we are expected to absorb it by some sort of divine osmosis, and unless everyone understands it and drivers expect traffic to stop for sometimes no apparent reason then there are potential issues.
Crash for cash will be easy, they just need a pedestrian to hop out in front of the cfc car which stamps on the brakes and bingo.
I would also expect the plod to do some traps, watching at suitable junctions and grabbing any car which doesn't stop for a waiting pedestrian.
I wonder if the rules will apply at all junctions regardless of category of road. Turning into a side road off a main road with NSL and traffic doing 60mph or even a dual carriageway, cars stopping on the main road will potentially be a hazard.
Stroppy teenagers will probably love this, I've watched them deliberately stop traffic already, now it will be their right to do so.

We wait to see what the actual law says I suppose.

[Bibio]

This is the tricky bit (taken directly from the link text, assuming that is representative of the forthcoming statute)
"Pedestrians currently have priority over cars only if they are already crossing a road into - or from which - a car is turning, but a new Rule H2 gives priority to pedestrians who are waiting, mandating vehicles stop to let them cross."


the secret word there is "waiting". to me this means pedestrians must wait till a car has stopped to let them cross. if a vehicle driver sees a pedestrian waiting then they must stop to let them cross. makes no mention about where there are already pedestrian crossings.

its all feked up...

[svenrico]

This is the tricky bit (taken directly from the link text, assuming that is representative of the forthcoming statute)
"Pedestrians currently have priority over cars only if they are already crossing a road into - or from which - a car is turning, but a new Rule H2 gives priority to pedestrians who are waiting, mandating vehicles stop to let them cross."

The problems start when pedestrians who don't know the rules (and they won't) stand at the kerb looking at the car which has stopped part way round a corner not knowing what to do. Then they walk into the road and a car coming the other way who doesn't understand the rules fails to stop. (make up your own alternative scenarios).
We all know what happens at roundabouts where someone starts to move off then stops, and this could potentially happen at any and every junction where a pedestrian stands at the kerb.
I can't imagine the details of the law will be publicised widely, they rarely are, we are expected to absorb it by some sort of divine osmosis, and unless everyone understands it and drivers expect traffic to stop for sometimes no apparent reason then there are potential issues.
Crash for cash will be easy, they just need a pedestrian to hop out in front of the cfc car which stamps on the brakes and bingo.
I would also expect the plod to do some traps, watching at suitable junctions and grabbing any car which doesn't stop for a waiting pedestrian.
I wonder if the rules will apply at all junctions regardless of category of road. Turning into a side road off a main road with NSL and traffic doing 60mph or even a dual carriageway, cars stopping on the main road will potentially be a hazard.
Stroppy teenagers will probably love this, I've watched them deliberately stop traffic already, now it will be their right to do so.

We wait to see what the actual law says I suppose.
It states '
while another change states drivers should stop and give way to pedestrians waiting to cross the road before turning into or out of junctions.' - which is what I thought already applied !

[svenrico]

Generally, of course, passing the driving test doesn't mean somebody is a good driver. Attitude on the road seems to be a problem with some people.

[keith_d]

Generally, of course, passing the driving test doesn't mean somebody is a good driver. Attitude on the road seems to be a problem with some people.

So far as I can tell the driving test is just enough to stop you killing yourself or other people. It doesn't make you a competent driver, that comes with experience.

There are several factors which affect the standard of driving on the roads.

1) There are a lot more vehicles on the roads now than when I learned to drive. (OK, I'm an old git).

2) There is pretty much no enforcement by the police or highways agency. So people just do what they like.

3) There are some people who clearly just don't give a s**t. They will ignore any laws that don't suit them. That includes driving where they shouldn't, turning or changing lanes without warning, and generally driving like c**ts.

So be extra careful out there and keep it shiny side up.

[svenrico]

So far as I can tell the driving test is just enough to stop you killing yourself or other people. It doesn't make you a competent driver, that comes with experience.

There are several factors which affect the standard of driving on the roads.

1) There are a lot more vehicles on the roads now than when I learned to drive. (OK, I'm an old git). but in your favour you have many years experience driving on the roads since them

2) There is pretty much no enforcement by the police or highways agency. Not sure about that So people just do what they like.

3) There are some people who clearly just don't give a s**t. They will ignore any laws that don't suit them. That includes driving where they shouldn't, turning or changing lanes without warning, and generally driving like c**ts.
tend to agree with that
So be extra careful out there and keep it shiny side up.
see my comments above in red

[Luckypants]

I'd tend to agree with the no enforcement comment. Only an absolute offence such as speeding or running a red light that can be enforced automatically are enforced. More subjective offences which fall under the banner of bad driving are not enforced as there is no traffic police. If I'm ****ed and weaving all over the road, I'll not be picked up unless I crash, speed past a camera or run a red light with a camera.

[svenrico]

I'd tend to agree with the no enforcement comment. Only an absolute offence such as speeding or running a red light that can be enforced automatically are enforced. More subjective offences which fall under the banner of bad driving are not enforced as there is no traffic police. If I'm ****ed and weaving all over the road, I'll not be picked up unless I crash, speed past a camera or run a red light with a camera.

No traffic police ?! Where do you live ?

[garynortheast]

You're quite right Mike, it's the same in this part of Wales. I see plenty of speed camera vans but rarely, if ever, see traffic cops. I'd rather see the latter than the former,

[daktulos]

No traffic police ?! Where do you live ?

I went on a bike safe course this year, and the police officer running it said there were three (I think) covering two counties, which means they rarely get out on their bikes.

As I understand it they were replaced by highways officers (who aren't police) and ARVs, who definitely are.

[chris8886]

I went on a bike safe course this year, and the police officer running it said there were three (I think) covering two counties, which means they rarely get out on their bikes.

As I understand it they were replaced by highways officers (who aren't police) and ARVs, who definitely are.



This is correct from the ex traffic copper that I know, who did it in Hertfordshire (he used to be on the tv show regularly, but always had his face blurred out). They just don't have enough cars or police officers to staff them.

[svenrico]

I went on a bike safe course this year, and the police officer running it said there were three (I think) covering two counties, which means they rarely get out on their bikes.

As I understand it they were replaced by highways officers (who aren't police) and ARVs, who definitely are.

Don't understand this . If you mean only 3 motorbike cops covering 2 counties, surely they would be out on their bikes more often to cover 2 counties !
I see police cars around when I am out and about and I assume it doesn't have to be an actual traffic cop to deal with a motoring offence if they see it.

[daktulos]

Don't understand this . If you mean only 3 motorbike cops covering 2 counties, surely they would be out on their bikes more often to cover 2 counties !
I see police cars around when I am out and about and I assume it doesn't have to be an actual traffic cop to deal with a motoring offence if they see it.

I think it was actually three cars, with two police per car, and I assume filling cars is considered more important. I'm sure there are still a lot of police cars out there who will pull you over, but not so many dedicated road police.

[Luckypants]

No traffic police ?! Where do you live ?
North Wales. Very little traffic police. If there are any they are only working weekends and on bike honeypot roads or the EVO triangle. The standard of driving in N. Wales is appalling and would keep a squadron of marked cars busy 100% of the time.

[svenrico]

North Wales. Very little traffic police. If there are any they are only working weekends and on bike honeypot roads or the EVO triangle. The standard of driving in N. Wales is appalling and would keep a squadron of marked cars busy 100% of the time.
I was trying to find out how many traffic cops there are in North Yorkshire as a matter of interest but couldn't see anything on the police website.
ps no doubt enough to catch me if I do anything wrong !
pps what is EVO ?

[garynortheast]

pps what is EVO ?

https://www.total911.com/great-roads-a543-and-b4501-north-wales-uk/

This.

[Luckypants]

Indeed Gary,

But even that road is policed much more lightly since the introduction of the average speed cameras along its entire length. So bad driving abounds, as long as your average speed is below 60. (doing very well if its not!) The A5 section is the only bit that is really affected by the average speed cameras.