Next!

[garynortheast]

Bloody hell, are we just going to rerun a complete English version of the trump fiasco. Can we expect a storming of parliament by a crowd of far right loons and nutjobs come the next election? Aside from the crowd of far right loons and nutjobs who appear to have stormed the last election that is.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jan/20/boris-johnson-conservatives-tory-labour-latest-updates

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-rebel-tories-blackmail_uk_61e933c6e4b0a864b07c5f11

[DJ123]

Unfortunately, when there is so much crap going highlighting their sheer incompetence and disregard for the Public, they need to hide they generate a smokescreen of distraction.

They're the sort of people who, in a public bathroom, would try and cover the sound of sh!tting by vomiting all over the floor - with all of the noises as loud as possible.

Boris will stay in as long as possible, so he can be blamed for what he did/allowed as it comes out the woodwork. No doubt there's more to come, so he'll be in a little longer. When there's no more stories he'll go and the next person picks up the poisoned chalice.
Until the next GE when Tory's get sent to the bottom of the World, and Lord Buckethead is made PM.

[Bibio]

and they said the SNP were a bunch of incompetent nobody's. maybe now people can understand why Scotland want independence away from the people in Westminster.

for anything to get done (more to the point not get done) the English public need to vote for anybody but the big three but it wont happen coz they have been brainwashed and like good little serfs they do what they are told. whoever came up with the slogan "its a wasted vote" was a genius mind control expert.

it can change.. Scotland is proof.

[ethariel]

and they said the SNP were a bunch of incompetent nobody's. maybe now people can understand why Scotland want independence away from the people in Westminster.


Forgive me but I'm pretty sure that Scotland voted to remain part of the Union in a 'Once in a generation vote'.

The Minority want independence.

[garynortheast]

Forgive me but I'm pretty sure that Scotland voted to remain part of the Union in a 'Once in a generation vote'.

The Minority want independence.

They did so on the assurance that they would remain part of the EU. I believe the polls have shown for quite some time since then that the majority now favour independence.

[ethariel]

They did so on the assurance that they would remain part of the EU. I believe the polls have shown for quite some time since then that the majority now favour independence.

Oh yes I forgot it's the Minority rule - Keep calling for a vote till you get your own way then quickly set in law that it can never be voted for again.

[Bibio]

Oh yes I forgot it's the Minority rule - Keep calling for a vote till you get your own way then quickly set in law that it can never be voted for again.

its not the minority its the SNP, you know the people that run Scotland that want the change, its part of their policy to try and get independence.

[ethariel]

its not the minority its the SNP, you know the people that run Scotland that want the change, its part of their policy to try and get independence.

Absolutely, the 'We called for a once in a generation vote and lost so we will just keep calling for another vote and another and another and another till people get sick of it and we get out way at last' party.

All I wonder is how Scotland will ever pay off thier Barnett Formula calculated share of the National Debt they will inherit when North Sea Oil will be shutting down due to 'It's not Green'?

[Bibio]

there are other country's in the world that have either split up or gained independence from their parent country.. do we see those parent country's who have supported the offspring before they departed asking for money back... ermm no.

it was not Scotland that asked for the barnett formula it was westminster who gave it out. i dont get this national debt thing. Scotland like Wales and Northern Ireland get a block grant to look after their affairs, those block grants are dependant on westminster's spending/budget. its not holyrood that dragged the UK into debt its the stupidity of westminster and its school tie bum buddies.

the wheels on the bus go round and round.

if the UK want everyone to be equal then its about time we were all amalgamated into one country, people and currency. this should have been done right at the start.

[keith_d]

Absolutely, the 'We called for a once in a generation vote and lost so we will just keep calling for another vote and another and another and another till people get sick of it and we get out way at last' party.



Easy answer. Get the SNP to campaign for a referendum south or the border on whether to split with Scotland. They just need to explain how much Scotland costs the rest of the UK, and everyone south of Watford Gap will vote for it.

Then they can spend decades trying to avoid paying their share of the national debt and blaming Westminster for that too. You can imagine Wee Ginger Krankie saying, "And WE didn't vote for the motorways in Scotland, so I don't see why the people of Scotland should PAY for them!!"

<KD lights blue touchpaper and retires to a safe distance>

[garynortheast]

https://i.imgur.com/D1KKVB8.jpg

[ethariel]

According to the 2018/2019 Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland (GERS) report, tax revenue in north of the border amounted to around £66 billion.

That figure includes North Sea oil revenues.

How much money does Scotland receive from the UK Government?
In 2018/2019, Scotland received about £81 billion in public spending, according to GERS.

So thats £15 billion a year in cuts come Independence, on top of all the lost revenue when SNP shuts Faslane down, along with the 100k+ jobs in the oil and gas industry that will go to keep the Green's happy (oh and the 10 billion a year in tax revenue from that).


But the big question on everyone's lips is - What do we call the new border wall, Hadrians Wall 2? (and more importantly what happens to the pub build half and half over the border, cheap booze in the English side (no minimum pence per unit) and passport control to try it? lol)

And last but not least - considering Scottish notes are not actually a legal currency, merely promissory notes backed by the bank of England - What currency will you use?

And just for the record, i'm a Jock, I spent my first 18 years there and do still consider it home, even tho I'll never get a vote (unlike illegals dumped on the council's north of the border will - go figure that) on the subject it's a fair bet I'm in favour of remaining in the union.

[Bibio]

i think those figures are a bit misleading due to Scotland generating a lot of its revenue at home which the UK government does not see or receive.

Scotland will call its currency whatever it likes just like any other independent country. the new Scottish currency will not need to be backed by the BOE. its worth will be calculated on how every other country in the world's is. the BOE will have nothing to do with it apart from giving all currant Scottish banks their "retention" back. the three scottish note issuing banks notes will then become legal tender and Scotland's new currency unless Holyrood decide otherwise. i dont know why people cant understand this. its the same as EVERY other country in the world........ get it..... btw the word Pound and the £ sign are not copyrighted and any country in the world can use the term and sign its just that they cant call it the Bank Of England pound or the GBP. think of Scotland as a new Ireland which became independent in only 1922.. or indeed another country that has flown the nest.

votes are for people who LIVE in Scotland not expats. if the UK want to include everyone else in the vote then go ahead, that way we know we will win as according to people down south we cost the UK government a fortune. with Scotland being part of the UK then we are entitled to what we receive. if we truly do cost more than what we generate then why is the UK government so hell bent on keeping Scotland????

[keith_d]

if we truly do cost more than what we generate then why is the UK government so hell bent on keeping Scotland????

For the Labour party the incentive to keep Scotland as part of the UK is clear. Historically, Scotland has returned a lot of Labour MPs. Without those votes it could be a very long time until we see another Labour government. If the SNP loses momentum in a decade or two, those seats will probably revert back to Labour again.

For the Tories it is less clear, and I suspect it's a matter of precedent. If Scotland leaves it would only be a matter of time until Wales goes the same way. Then how about an independent Cornwall??

Just my thoughts,

Keith.

[keith_d]

On the subject of an independant Scotland, the choice of currency is the least of the issues.

Top of my list of contentious issues is division of the UK national debt. The obvious choice would be to share it on a per-capita basis, but with politicians involved there's no danger of that happening. Instead there would be decades of wrangling about who pays what.

Second on my list is defence. This is an absolute minefield (pun intended). Do both countries get separate armies, and if so who gets what?? If it's a combined defence budget, who pays what and where are things like ships and tanks built?

Then there's the issue of nationality. If Scotland is a separate country who is entitled to citizenship? Is it by birth? Length of time living in Scotland? Scottish parents/grandparents? Ask three politicians and you'll get four different answers.

So, while Bibio makes it sound like a straightforward process I think it will be a complete mess once the politicians get involved. Much more complicated than when the UK left Europe.

[Bibio]

its not like Scotland would build a big wall to keep the rest of the UK out the moment they got independence. things wont change overnight and it would take decades to sort everything out. i would personally say 50 years till a truly independent Scotland. independence via diplomacy always takes longer and there is a loooot to sort out its just that in the mean time Scotland would be looking after its own finances and residents instead of being dictated to by Westminster. we already know that its a bit of give and take with Scotlands budget so thats not an excuse and the idea that Scotland cant take care of itself is just plain ridiculous. as for an army... well that would have to be sorted out but i would suggest that whats in Scotland stays in Scotland. its not like Scotland is going to be invaded anytime soon.

national debt... thats a sticky one and i guess that Scotland would owe the UK something just like Westminster owing the EU something. another thing is Scotland would gain the right to borrow and have a debt of its own.

hard border.. that would be up to Holyrood and Westminster to sort out.

i would not worry about places like Wales and Cornwall i would be more concerned about places like the north of yorkshire wanting to join Scotland.

[keith_d]

national debt... thats a sticky one and i guess that Scotland would owe the UK something just like Westminster owing the EU something. another thing is Scotland would gain the right to borrow and have a debt of its own.


The UK national debt is a serious heap of money. Assuming a per-capita distribution, Scotland would be responsible for about £180 billion. That's in a completely different league to the 39 billion that the UK as a whole will pay to settle outstanding liabiilties with the EU.

(UK national debt: £2.2 trillion, Scottish population: 8.2%)

Obviously, neither side will want to pay their share and will try to offload more onto the other. So I'd expect this one to get nasty!