View Full Version : But cyclists.....
garynortheast
28-01-22, 12:27 PM
Red light jumpers. Dangerous to anyone on two wheels.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1486779072134983688
these kind of ignorant asswipes are obviously in a hurry to die or kill other people. there is running an amber going on red then there is just plain taking the pizz....
Adam Ef
28-01-22, 01:19 PM
Yep. Pays to stay alert to red light jumpers. A regular occurence on my commute to work. If I was a second earlier and I'd have been side swiped by this guy as he shot out of side road through a red light. When people do it they don't do it slowly.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51848087149_82e850d16a_c.jpg
keith_d
28-01-22, 02:18 PM
The worst one I've seen was a cyclist who pulled out straight in front of a bus.
The bus driver managed to stop in time, but for a moment I thought they would be sending the cyclist home in a bucket. Twelve and a half tonnes of big red bus can make a quite a mess.
Luckypants
28-01-22, 03:29 PM
Another reason I have dashcam. Long gone are the days of a bobby stepping out to give a red-light jumper a ticket.
... there is running an amber going on red then there is just plain taking the pizz....
To this day I still get amazed on some occasions when I've gone through late-ish on an amber because I feel like I have pushed the boundaries yet I see in my mirror one, two or more cars come through behind me.
I've probably chosen to go through more changing lights due to self-preserving 'fear' of being rear-ended than due to being unwilling to stop myself.
I've probably chosen to go through more changing lights due to self-preserving 'fear' of being rear-ended than due to being unwilling to stop myself.
i dont slow down approaching green lights so its sometimes either brake hard or go through an amber and i use my judgment depending on weather and if there is someone behind me.
you also have to remember that there are a lot of foreign drivers who's country has different driving arrangements with fellow drivers.
i dont slow down approaching green lights so its sometimes either brake hard or go through an amber and i use my judgment depending on weather and if there is someone behind me.
you also have to remember that there are a lot of foreign drivers who's country has different driving arrangements with fellow drivers.
Yes, exactly that.
In Austria the green traffic light flashes a couple of times before it changes to amber then red. This gives an excellent forewarning that it's just about to change to amber, and while it sounds like an unnecessary complication it actually works extremely well, it takes all the "will it, won't it?" judgement out of approaching traffic lights on green. If it's still solid green at the point where you need to commit to either stopping or carrying on, then you're fine. The couple of flashes then the amber period means you can ease up and stop easily with no drama.
It'll never catch on here.
daktulos
29-01-22, 03:33 PM
In Austria the green traffic light flashes a couple of times before it changes to amber then red. This gives an excellent forewarning that it's just about to change to amber, and while it sounds like an unnecessary complication it actually works extremely well, it takes all the "will it, won't it?" judgement out of approaching traffic lights on green. If it's still solid green at the point where you need to commit to either stopping or carrying on, then you're fine. The couple of flashes then the amber period means you can ease up and stop easily with no drama.
Wuh? Don't you need another code to warn you that it's going to start flickering soon?
Seriously, that's what amber means! If it changes to amber in time for you to stop safely and in control, you stop, if you don't have time to stop you go through on amber. Why make it more complex than it needs to be?
Wuh? ..... Why make it more complex than it needs to be?
Because it works. Once you experience it you understand what the purpose is.
daktulos
29-01-22, 10:01 PM
Because it works. Once you experience it you understand what the purpose is.
I guess I don't see the point - unless amber means "stop" and flashing green means "put your foot down to get through before it turns amber"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_L5G6ldX0s
Of course some people still ignore it and cross even up to red, but it just gives extra notice. It's a bit like the traffic lights which also use a countdown timer to show when it's going to change from red back to green, a great idea as it removes a lot of frustration when you know how long it's going to be. Not necessary but helpful.
ethariel
29-01-22, 11:19 PM
Sitting here in utter amazement here.
Feel free to pop down to London any time and I'll give you a tour of my daily 10 mile each way commute and let you count how many sets of light cyclist's (and cockwombles on electric scooters) do NOT run and you will have loads of space on one hand left.
daktulos
30-01-22, 07:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_L5G6ldX0s
Of course some people still ignore it and cross even up to red, but it just gives extra notice. It's a bit like the traffic lights which also use a countdown timer to show when it's going to change from red back to green, a great idea as it removes a lot of frustration when you know how long it's going to be. Not necessary but helpful.
Thanks, interesting. I note that the amber was on for around three seconds. A quick Google tells me that UK traffic lights stay on amber for 4-6 seconds, so the flashing green effectively replaces some of the time at amber.
I guess it works for them (in the same way some countries go directly from red to green) but I can't see any clear benefit to it - unless there's a case for better visibility for colour-blind people.
The count-down on pedestrian lights are interesting. As a fast walker, I can start crossing on 0 and can still make it across before the lights change. As a slower walker, this wouldn't be a case, so may not go below (e.g.) 5. It's great as it lets pedestrians make an educated decision. For vehicles, there should be less variability in speed really.
Sitting here in utter amazement here.
Feel free to pop down to London any time and I'll give you a tour of my daily 10 mile each way commute and let you count how many sets of light cyclist's (and cockwombles on electric scooters) do NOT run and you will have loads of space on one hand left.
I'm not surprised in the slightest. (I'm more surprised it took so long for this legitimate counter observation to be posted.)
It's become a race to the bottom, with everyone jockeying for space and in a selfish hurry. In general being hit by a car/van running a red is likely to be more serious than being hit by a cycle/e-scooter, but 'two wrongs don't make a right' so that's not a good enough reason to excuse any of it.
I'm a pretty assertive cyclist when I ride (incl. a fair bit of commuting over the years in Manchester/Birmingham/other, though not London) but I've always drawn the line at running reds - I won't defend the indefensible.
How about we agree that everyone should stop at lights and be courteous and considerate to each other? Could that work?:rolleyes:
How about we agree that everyone should stop at lights and be courteous and considerate to each other?
now thats funny :smt044
ethariel
30-01-22, 03:20 PM
How about we agree that everyone should stop at lights and be courteous and considerate to each other? Could that work?:rolleyes:
Would be great!
(ooooooh look a pig just flew past my window!)
It's ingrained in the cycling commuter brigade that it's perfectly ok to run lights, ignore zebra crossings and to get exceptionally vocal with anyone who calls them out on it and will continue to be that way because if ANY vehicle is involved in an accident with a cycle then they are automatically blamed and the cyclists know this and take the P.
Treat it like 'No Insurance' - pull them over, crush the bike and give them points on the driving licence for it. That would significantly cut down the issues.
Sir Trev
30-01-22, 04:01 PM
Treat it like 'No Insurance' - pull them over, crush the bike and give them points on the driving licence for it. That would significantly cut down the issues.
Points, yes. Not sure about crushing, not without impounding and charging a release and storage fee first. As with so many things though it can only be administered by a real Rozzer, and we just don't have enough of them on the roads.
Would be great!
(ooooooh look a pig just flew past my window!)
It's ingrained in the cycling commuter brigade that it's perfectly ok to run lights, ignore zebra crossings and to get exceptionally vocal with anyone who calls them out on it and will continue to be that way because if ANY vehicle is involved in an accident with a cycle then they are automatically blamed and the cyclists know this and take the P.
Treat it like 'No Insurance' - pull them over, crush the bike and give them points on the driving licence for it. That would significantly cut down the issues.
If they had to wear a tag which meant they could be identified (number plate, ASBO tag, etc) i bet that would cut down as soon as they could be traced and fined . . . . . the anonymity is why they do it - how far down the food chain they are is all based off luck and how they *think* others will behave.
Adam Ef
30-01-22, 08:17 PM
No it wouldn't . We already have this for cars and people still speed etc.
It would cut down on the number of people cycling though and cost a huge amount in admin, which would be collected via VED, which drivers would pay for in increased costs. This has been debated many times before and always comes to the same conclusions, generalisations and assumptions.
Some people are inconsiderate dicks however they are travelling.
Some people are inconsiderate dicks however they are travelling.
:winner:
i think people forget that cyclists and pedestrians dont have to abide to the highway code. if a cyclist runs a red light and gets injured/killed then tough luck to them. yes we all know that the vehicle driver gets the blame but they shouldn't. now the sticky part is that you can argue if the cyclist has passed a driving test then they have to abide by the highway code as they have to have read it.
if the public want cyclists to abide to the highway code then then everyone should have to pass a cycle proficiency and highway code test when they turn 16.
now the sticky part.. Electric powered Cycles.. they are self propelled so come under the same laws as other vehicles. or do they? if they do then the owner needs a registration number, licence, tax? and insurance. if they dont then they should. then there is the problem of children with EC's.
keith_d
31-01-22, 10:56 AM
Points, yes. Not sure about crushing, not without impounding and charging a release and storage fee first. As with so many things though it can only be administered by a real Rozzer, and we just don't have enough of them on the roads.
So first off we need some police officers who are able to stop a cyclist who rides through a red light, i.e. police bikers. Then we need the willingness to actually do some enforcement, which is ever harder than finding police bikers outside the DPG.
maviczap
31-01-22, 11:35 AM
now the sticky part.. Electric powered Cycles.. they are self propelled so come under the same laws as other vehicles. or do they? if they do then the owner needs a registration number, licence, tax? and insurance. if they dont then they should. then there is the problem of children with EC's.
Electric bikes don't need number plates, insurance, because they are limited to 15mph and its pedal assisted.
Those that exceed this and have a twist grip throttle require insurance & number plates as they are classed as motor vehicles.
Tax they'll pay the same as Tesla owners. No pollution= No Tax
maviczap
31-01-22, 11:37 AM
No it wouldn't . We already have this for cars and people still speed etc.
It would cut down on the number of people cycling though and cost a huge amount in admin, which would be collected via VED, which drivers would pay for in increased costs. This has been debated many times before and always comes to the same conclusions, generalisations and assumptions.
Some people are inconsiderate dicks however they are travelling.
And already ruled out by the Government as a waste of time & resources
Only Daily Heil & Express readers keep braying for these to be introduced
maviczap
31-01-22, 11:41 AM
So first off we need some police officers who are able to stop a cyclist who rides through a red light, i.e. police bikers. Then we need the willingness to actually do some enforcement, which is ever harder than finding police bikers outside the DPG.
Unfortunately, due to cuts in police numbers, enforcing road traffic offences by all road users are way down the list of priorities of all police forces.
On average 1500 deaths caused by cars/lorries per year in the UK
On average 2 per year caused by cyclists
Start with the major contributor first
keith_d
31-01-22, 02:59 PM
On average 1500 deaths caused by cars/lorries per year in the UK
On average 2 per year caused by cyclists
I assume that the cyclists killed by motor vehicles while doing some thing stupid count as 'caused by cars/lorries'. :smt096
maviczap
31-01-22, 03:28 PM
I assume that the cyclists killed by motor vehicles while doing some thing stupid count as 'caused by cars/lorries'. :smt096
No, road deaths of pedestrians, cyclists, and other road users
i think people forget that cyclists and pedestrians dont have to abide to the highway code.
That's not quite true. The code is there to guide everyone on the responsible way to use 'the highway'. It contains expectations for all types of road user, including cyclists and pedestrians. Many of these expectations are backed up by explicit law, yes including some for pedestrians and cyclists. Ignorance of the law is never a defence.
The lack of mandated training or test for some types of road user might create some argumentative wiggle room but that's not enough to overturn being in the wrong, in comparison to the legislation (though, yes, I accept that many try!)
Sir Trev
31-01-22, 06:57 PM
Electric bikes don't need number plates, insurance, because they are limited to 15mph and its pedal assisted.
Those that exceed this and have a twist grip throttle require insurance & number plates as they are classed as motor vehicles.
Tax they'll pay the same as Tesla owners. No pollution= No Tax
Spot on. I pick up my ebike on Saturday and I fully expect to get some ill informed person grumbling about me needing number plates at some point. Ironically most of us buy one to cycle further and more often, not faster. Plus, when the assist cuts out at 15mph you've simply got a VERY heavy manual bicycle (mine is 26.5 kg).
Unfortunately you can buy ebikes with throttles that are not pedal assist, which as Mav says, are powered vehicles. I saw several in Brighton over the weekend, weaving between people on the prom, with smirking riders who clearly knew they should not be used there. A-holes will always spoil something by being in people's faces, tarring all of us.
maviczap
31-01-22, 07:30 PM
:-)
... Electric powered Cycles.. they are self propelled so come under the same laws as other vehicles. or do they? if they do then the owner needs a registration number, licence, tax? and insurance. if they dont then they should. ...
They're subect to the applicable laws, but not always the same laws. It generally starts in the same place with Road Traffic Acts and various Road Vehicles Regulations ('Construction & Use', 'Lighting' etc.) but then deviates with exemptions to those laws allowed for certain types.
Electric bikes don't need number plates, insurance, because they are limited to 15mph and its pedal assisted.
Those that exceed this and have a twist grip throttle require insurance & number plates as they are classed as motor vehicles.
Interestingly, the exemption criteria for e-bikes as (partly) quoted here were set as long ago as 1983. Look up the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983 and the Electically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015 if you want fuller detail.
redtrummy
31-01-22, 10:19 PM
I get stung for more than £400 road tax now, total road mileage about 6500 ( minus cycle miles) I think I pay enough now, if we had to pay tax on the bikes as well it would rub salt into the very open sore wound. (It would be the cost of another 6, enough is enough.)
We are 3rd party insured, and as aside I can cycle faster than what a legal e-bike can do (not uphill though)
Sir Trev
05-02-22, 06:44 PM
It was the first time I'd used my new towbar carrier, so a bit nerve wracking, but as usual Thule make good kit, so the two ebikes are now home safe and sound. We only had a bit of juice in the batteries as the shop did not charge them (small black mark) so we only did a few miles this afternoon to try them out. What a hoot! Like having a constant tail wind.
While the batteries were on the bench charging I was riding mine about to check my tweaks to bar rise, seat angle and lever reach to make the fit just right. Without the power pack in it (SO heavy) its a nice manual bike too, which is a bonus. The 51t lowest gear is the size of a dinner plate so I'm not surprised.
Looking forward to some more expedition-like day trips now.
redtrummy
06-02-22, 10:35 AM
After two years use our thoughts on the e-bike. The weight is a real pain. We have a disused railway track turned into a greenway., great but getting the bike down the steep steps at some access points is difficult, takes both of us. The mid motor means the frame ends up 2 inch or so longer., means getting through cycle designed swing gates can be done but not with any fluidity. The motorhome rack requires its rails to be longer they are £50 a throw - modified myself so thats ok. Getting it up on the m/h rack too heavy for me so I have had to make a ramp to run it up. The fork angle on the bike is too steep, had to fit a stem extender for her and the front wheel easily jacks knifes under her
Now the good points! It has allowed the wife, a previous strong cyclist, to enjoy cycling again. Made it better for me as I do not have to wait for her. We do 20mile rides in rolling country, more on flat lands.
Great for visiting a mate with a couple of bottles of homebrew and come away with panniers full of his homegrown veg. All in all best £1500 we have spent on a vehicle.
maviczap
06-02-22, 04:38 PM
After two years use our thoughts on the e-bike. The weight is a real pain. We have a disused railway track turned into a greenway., great but getting the bike down the steep steps at some access points is difficult, takes both of us. The mid motor means the frame ends up 2 inch or so longer., means getting through cycle designed swing gates can be done but not with any fluidity. The motorhome rack requires its rails to be longer they are £50 a throw - modified myself so thats ok. Getting it up on the m/h rack too heavy for me so I have had to make a ramp to run it up. The fork angle on the bike is too steep, had to fit a stem extender for her and the front wheel easily jacks knifes under her
Now the good points! It has allowed the wife, a previous strong cyclist, to enjoy cycling again. Made it better for me as I do not have to wait for her. We do 20mile rides in rolling country, more on flat lands.
Great for visiting a mate with a couple of bottles of homebrew and come away with panniers full of his homegrown veg. All in all best £1500 we have spent on a vehicle.
We've just gone and collected a second hand e-bike for my partner. 7 years old, less than a hundred miles on it. Cost £1200 new, cost us £200! It was immaculate and really nicely equipped.
Partner was sceptical it wouldn't help her, but when she went for a test ride, she was smiling from ear to ear.
Sir Trev
07-02-22, 07:38 PM
Glad she's happy Mav. I'm looking forward to getting to know mine more - getting the mix of cadence, speed and gearing right so I get the exercise element and the convenience of the assist. We got carried away on Saturday and got back knackered as we tried to whiz along instead of waft. We'll get the hang of it :)
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