JHS stage II cams for $200

[Ziguy]

Here's the idea, you put your intake cams on the exhaust side and put '03 intake cams on the intake side. You end up with the same set-up as the JHS stage II (8.7, 8.1) You only to buy two '03 intake cams, $200 for both at ronayer.com :D

Now, Just need to find the correct timing. Somebody knows the JHS stage II timings?

According to JHS this set-up is good for 78 hp (with exhaust, filter and jet kit) :twisted:

http://www.jhsracing.co.uk/99-650/dyno/images/stg2m4.gif

Here's the lifts and timings of the available camshafts for the SV:

99-02...........In = 8.1/107.........Ex = 6.1/99.5

2003............In = 8.7...............Ex = 7.3

Yosh............In = 8.8/105.........Ex = 7.2/100

JHS..............In = 8.1...............Ex = 8.1
Stage II.......In = 8.7..............Ex = 8.1
Stage III......In = 9.4...............Ex = 8.7 **

MegaCycle....In = 8.2/103.........Ex = 7.6/107.5
Stage II.......In = 8.9/101.5......Ex = 8.6/103.5 **
Stage III......In = 9.4/100.........Ex = 8.9/104 **

** Needs racing springs

[weegaz22]

Now, Just need to find the correct timing. Somebody knows the JHS stage II timings

i take it that you want to use adjustable vernier cam sprockets??

if not then the setup should be the same as the 99-02 intake cam swap as you wont have any adjustability, if when you start the bike and it runs then you got the timing right, if not then your valves will stomp all over the tops of the pistons and cost you a pretty penny to repair

[Ziguy]

Now, Just need to find the correct timing. Somebody knows the JHS stage II timings

i take it that you want to use adjustable vernier cam sprockets??

if not then the setup should be the same as the 99-02 intake cam swap as you wont have any adjustability, if when you start the bike and it runs then you got the timing right, if not then your valves will stomp all over the tops of the pistons and cost you a pretty penny to repair
Ajustable or not, it should be better than the double intake cam swap... With this set-up, you'll have 8.7 and 8.1 of lift, with the intake cam swap it's 8.1 and 8.1 of lift. By the way, the JHS stage 1 camshaft give you the same set-up as the intake cam swap. Good for 74 hp (with exhaust, filter and jetkit). So it must be good for 4 more hp than the intake cam swap.

http://www.jhsracing.co.uk/99-650/dyno/std_v_stg1.htm

FYI, right timing is more than an engine that runs!!!

[weegaz22]

yes but you cant alter the timing without adjustable cam wheels which is what i was saying, so if you keep to the oe sprockets then if the engine runs, then you have the timing right (unless you somhow manage to put it out by 180 degrees) if not vour valves will hit the piston and the engine wont run, the sprockets have 36 teeth, which is equal to 10 degrees a tooth, get the setup wrong and you will know about it

[Ziguy]

... so if you keep to the oe sprockets then if the engine runs, then you have the timing right...
I agree with you on that...

My idea is to find the JHS stage II timings and, if needed, remove the sprockets and degree them.

[weegaz22]

why dont you ask jhs then? they can only say no, tell them that u are interested in buying their sprockets and that you are in canada and will need to fit them yourself and what degreeing to use and see if they give you the info you need, after you have it then you can make offset woodruff keys for the oe sprockets

[Ziguy]

why dont you ask jhs then? they can only say no, tell them that u are interested in buying their sprockets and that you are in canada and will need to fit them yourself and what degreeing to use and see if they give you the info you need, after you have it then you can make offset woodruff keys for the oe sprockets
I asked them about their spec!!! But they don't give that information out! :cry:

It'll work without degreeing the sprocket... It's already know that the intake cams could be put on the exhaust side with the use of new marks. The stock marks of the '03 intake could be use since they will be use on the intake side. Could the timing be better, that what I will like to know.

You have experience/knowledge with timing?

[weegaz22]

the timing wont be as perfect as it would be with the adjustable sprockets, but in all honesty if you cant get the specs for optimum performance, then just use the stock marks, after all the difference will be negligible, especially on a street bike you wont notice the difference, the suzuki settings will be set at a line with safety and performance in mind(they wouldnt want the valves crashing and risk locking up the engine while their customers are on it, and no one would buy the bike if the engine was a complete dog)

i have engine testing experience which was running engines on a test bed and tuning them up if they were setup wrong from the factory floor( ie valve clearances not set right, fuel injection timing wrong etc) but this was on 400 and 500bhp truck engines, but the principal is the same

[davyf]

Can't you use the settings in the megacycle catalog as a guide. Surely you can get your original cam sprockets slotted at a local machine shop & do the maths for the degrees. Though I would question the 40 degrees bbc for stage 2 with S1 45 bbc & S3 47 bbc. It might be a misprint so they should be happy to answer you question. If you look at JHS you will be aware most of their stuff is over priced even for the UK some of it can be bought cheaper your side of the pond. Also I could not find ronayer.com .

[Ziguy]

Sorry, it's www.ronayers.com

[Ziguy]

A guy on SVrider put on his '03 the '02 intake cam on the exhaust side and he gained 4 hp.

So, the combo '03 intake cam and '02 intake cam on the exhaust side works!

For the timing, I'll use the stock marks of the '03 intake cams and put new marks on my '02 intake cams.

[Ziguy]

Here's the result: 7 hp!

http://www.svrider.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=16607

[weegaz22]

i asked itching to go joe to get me a price for the K3 cams heres what he sent me

intake cam front 12710-17g00 £61.57
rear cam 12730-17g00 £61.57

add another few quid to that price for the cam chain tensioner gaskets so about £125 for the "stage 2" cams

[OnFire]

So JHS price is £350, and they get your old cams.

I seriously think I'm in the wrong profession.

I honestly might do this mod while I got the engine out, just not sure its worth it at the mo as I have a standard pipe wiith a race can on.

[weegaz22]

So JHS price is £350, and they get your old cams.

I seriously think I'm in the wrong profession.

I honestly might do this mod while I got the engine out, just not sure its worth it at the mo as I have a standard pipe wiith a race can on.

yes, and they only need to replace 2 cams instead of the 4 advertised

you will still get a benefit out of it as the most restrictive part of the exhaust system is the end can, bike will also sound a little louder as well

[bj]

why not just get your existing cams ground to stage 2 or even stage 3 spec?
Is this mod you are refering to for the pre 03 or the 03 model?

[weegaz22]

pre k3, you probably could do it to the K3 model but the question is, if you do it *will* you lose midrange grunt for top-end power?
and thats not really suited to a V-Twin, as you can see in the dyno print out, there is an increase all the way across the rev range







* it could give an increase all the way across the rev range for all i know, but cams with wild lift and duration tend to shift power higher up the rev range at the expense of midrange, some are also known to cause lumpiness at tickover as well

[OnFire]

I'm very close to talking myself into this mod now.

So a quick run though thou:

1. Get two inlet cams for an 03 SV.
2. Move crank to TDC, etc etc, remove old cams front and back as per manual (what ever that says, I don't have one) and remove tensioner/adjusters.
3. Replace cams, old intake to exhaust, new inlet to inlet. (Question here, do the new cams come with sprockets fitted??? If not wtf do I do?)
4. Whilst replacing cams, do you really need a special tool to reset the cam adjuster?
5. Once its all back together, do you have to set valve clearances? and if so where is the adjuster for this as I have only set VC's on push rod engines previously.

Or, how much you reckon JHS would charge if I turned up with the engine in the boot of the car and my own cams to fit? Last resort thought.

Thanks in advance Ant.

[OnFire]

Oops last question, do I only need the gasket for the cam chain adjuster, not for the cam cover, right?

I better go to bed I gotta go work in the morning :cry: .

[OnFire]

Dam it one more.......

Where do I get the cams? Do Royayers.Com ship to UK?

[elmerfud]

Ant, Be carefull with the customs / import / royal mail / hidden charges.

I bought a part from the US for $150, it actually ended up at £150 after i'd been fleeced.b'stards :x

[OnFire]

Thanks for the warning Elmer, will have to look into before ordering.

Forget my previous questions (I was drunk), I have narrowed it down to three:

1. Do cams come with sprockets?
2. Is the special tool for cam tensioner easy to reproduce?
3. Are there any suppliers in the UK for the cams?

I wanna try and order these this week. I will get a camera too and do a step by step guide for you folks. Only thing is I won't be able to test it still the rest of the bike is put back together, could be March yet.

[weegaz22]

1. when i asked itching to go joe to get the cams i asked him to price it with sprockets, the price was £125

2. cam cover gasket is made out of rubber so you should be able to re-use it

3. i dont know what you mean by a "special tool" for the cam chain adjusters, all you need is a screwdriver to retract the plunger

for more "detailed info" on how to do the cam swap look here:

http://www.svrider.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=13086


http://www.svrider.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4728

[weegaz22]

5. Once its all back together, do you have to set valve clearances? and if so where is the adjuster for this as I have only set VC's on push rod engines previously.



there are no "adjusters" as such as the sv engine uses a shim and bucket type arrangment, basically starting from the cam down it is in this order:

camshaft

shim bucket

shim

valve stem + collets and springs

stem seal

the adjustment is in the thickness of the shim that sits in top of the valves stem, to check adjustment you will need to get feeler gauges, (engine must be cold when doing this), you must check the space between the bucket and the cam lobe

lobe must not be pressing on the cam, pointy bits on the 2 cams should be pointing away from each other with the F mark on the inspection for the front cylinder and R mark for the rear cyl(oh so technical wording :wink: ),

if the clearances are fine then you wont need to change the shims, if you dont need to change shims, then its a case of taking the cams back out and measuring the shims with a micrometer to find what size you need(when you take shims out mark down what valve they came from as it will **** you off if you have to strip the cams off again if mixed up the shims)

[russell winters]

so wen is 1 of u guys gunna do it pro n give us guyz the benifit of cheaper reliable tuning???

[weegaz22]

so wen is 1 of u guys gunna do it pro n give us guyz the benifit of cheaper reliable tuning???

i am thinking about doing it this year but it will be a case of when funds allow as usual, if i do do it then i will photograph and write down everything and post it up on my site for others to see as i have done with my other mods, i will also post it on this site for everyone as well

[russell winters]

thatll be cool!!!!!
gimme power!!!

[OnFire]

Weegaz where does Itching to go get the cams, does he work for royayers.com? I will probs take the plunge and order tomorrow. Thanks for info Weegaz, helpful as always.

[weegaz22]

ronayers is an american shop as far as im aware, joe works near london somewhere (i believe), so you shouldnt need to work about shipping costs, all i did was asked him to call a supplier about intake cams for a K3 and he gave me the part numbers and prices


cheers joe yer a star :D

[Itching 2 go]

i work for lamba motorcycles in carshalton surrey and i get the camshafts directly supplied to me from suzuki without carriage. any suzuki dealer can order the camshafts with the part numbers that i quoted wegazz.

ps the cams come with sprockets attatched :wink:

good luck guys

[Itching 2 go]

i asked itching to go joe to get me a price for the K3 cams heres what he sent me

intake cam front 12710-17g00 £61.57
rear cam 12730-17g00 £61.57

add another few quid to that price for the cam chain tensioner gaskets so about £125 for the "stage 2" cams

[OnFire]

Yippey!!!! Cams with sprockets, idea sold. Not sure where my nearest Suzuki dealer is anymore, will have to look around.

[Itching 2 go]

Yippey!!!! Cams with sprockets, idea sold. Not sure where my nearest Suzuki dealer is anymore, will have to look around.

have a look on the suzuki web site it should tell you

[russell winters]

has anyone tried this in practice yet? is any1 going to?
if so wat are the dyno readouts?
is it worth the hassle or did u just blow ur engine?

[weegaz22]

someone on svrider did it and and he got around 7bhp after he had fine tuned his fuelling(already had fuelling modified as well as an air filter and exhaust) there might be a link to it in this thread if i remember correctly

[OnFire]

I'm ordering mine on Thursday via a local dealer with some Suzuki contacts. Also need side engine casing gaskets etc and some swing arm bearings.

[OnFire]

Just for info, if anyone is using the instructions to do this from the following: http://msting.gixxer.com/camswap.htm the part numbers for the cam shafts are wrong.

The correct part numbers for 03 intake cams are:
12710-17G00 Front
12730-17G00 Rear

Got my rear cam today, but the front is still on back order but should be here for the weekend.

[weegaz22]

just make sure that once you have fitted everything turn the engine by hand to check the cam isnt out by 10 degrees(engine will stop turning due to valveface hitting piston top)oh and check the clearances

bet your all excited :lol: :lol: :D :D :D

[OnFire]

Will the valve hit the piston even if it is out by only 10 degrees? I hope so then I know before hand if I'm wrong before I hit the starter. It seems an easy enough job so shouldn't be too worried.

Excited isn't the word, I could feel the power in my hands as I opened the little cam packaging, wwhhoooaaa :lol: .

[RenamedMonkey]

Let us know how you get on tearing the bike apart and throwing it all back together, I'd be interested if it doesn't all go wrong :wink:

And I want to know how it feels :twisted:

All the best, sounds 8)

[dutchie]

just changed the inlet cam's with 2003 one's and put the
"old" inletcams to the exhaust side.
(took some time to get the timing right)
we rev'd it up to apr. 7000 rpm wich gave 65 bhp.
The bike also has a K&N filter and the wiseco 700cc
conversion.
Probably the most advandce off the cam exchange will
appeare above 7-8000 rpm.

[davyf]

Why did you stop there instead of looking for max bhp, if you had access & hooked up to to the gear to measure bhp.

[dutchie]

whe just replaced the piston's, the bike has only
50 kms driven. (sorry for the bad english, i'm
a cheese-head) :?

[OnFire]

Just done my cams 03 intakes and 02 intakes to exhaust.

However I had a slight mishap and would like some reassurance:

Front cyclinder fine. Rear cyclinder I fitted the cams and then turned the crank without the camchain tensioner(to check tappets). The chain skipped off the exhaust cam about 20 to 30 degrees. I had to turn the crank further round to get it back to the correct position to amend it as I couldnt be sure it had skipped.

Surely I wouldnt have bend the valves without realising with only been 20-30 degrees out? I didn't feel the crank trying to "stop" as I turned it.

What do yeah think.

[russell winters]

sounds like ur timing is gona be out if the chain jumped and could result in a catastrophic explosion of biblical proportions and the end of the world...possibly. or buggered piston,valves etc....
get the timings rite befor u run it.
good luck.

[OnFire]

Yes of course I have set the timings right now. Its just if any damage occurred whilst turning the crank whilst the chain had skipped.

Figured it out anyway. The exhaust cam had advanced 30 degrees so the piston would have been at the end of its power stroke and so no way near the valves and closed well before it reached the top of the cyclinder.

[OnFire]

Ok I have managed to start the bitch up today. Wasn't running 100% as no air box and I had only pour a bit of petrol into the little pipe.

Seems to be idling ok, but it seems to thump now when running. No an engine missing thump, I just mean you can really feel it though the bars etc. Hope this is normal?!?

[weegaz22]

Ok I have managed to start the bitch up today. Wasn't running 100% as no air box and I had only pour a bit of petrol into the little pipe.

Seems to be idling ok, but it seems to thump now when running. No an engine missing thump, I just mean you can really feel it though the bars etc. Hope this is normal?!?

are you 110% sure that the timing was spot on? made sure that the distance between the link was as it was supposed to be?

how do you mean thump? thumps every cycle? thumps when the throttle is opened? did you check the valve clearances? is it doing is hot and cold?

if you are running without airbox it could simply be down to that need a better explanation

[OnFire]

It was not ideal test conditions.

Airbox was off, engine was not missing, fuel was poured via the fuel pipe that goes from "fuel pump" to carbs - so not a lot in there.

It seemed to thump every fire, and it wouldn't rev above 3000rpm but I'm putting that down to low fueling and cold start. Not enough fuel to let it warm up.

Tappets were checked and no shims were needed, counted links on chains whilst installing. All marks lined it and cam lobes appeared as they should from pictures.

I was just wondering if this is a new engine characteristic of the cam swap.
To try and explain the type of thump, it is like running at a very low idle.

[OnFire]

Captains log - supplemental

I'm going to actually try and ride it this weekend coming up (No fairing etc but hey) so will know more then.

It might be I'm not used to the engine, after all it has been about 6 months its I last had it running.

[OnFire]

Ok slapped a tank, air box and micron on it today, ran a lot better. Took it round the block (minus lights, panels, mudflaps, helmet! etc) and seems ok. Only managed to take it up to 6000rpm before the rear end broke away (new tyres).

Will put it all back together properly and take it for a good run out soon.

[davyf]

I'll try mine this weekend I've rebuilt the bottom end got all the gaskets etc. only to find the circlips to hold gudgeon pins in are special parts (bollox) & the bike shop will have to order them in. What are bike shops coming to if a poxy circlip for a 20mm gudgeon pin is a special part we'll have to order special Suzuki cleaners etc. to clean or bikes.

[uktech1]

I'm tuning an sv motor and need to dial in the cams. Do any of you guys know where I can get adapters for slotted cam sprockets (Originals are press fit and not easily adjusted). JHS do a kit but it's £385 which is a bit steep.

[amarko5]

I'm tuning an sv motor and need to dial in the cams. Do any of you guys know where I can get adapters for slotted cam sprockets (Originals are press fit and not easily adjusted). JHS do a kit but it's £385 which is a bit steep.

PM rictus01 i am sure he has stage 2 or 3 cams and may be able to help?

unless you are reading this Mark :wink:

[uktech1]

Problem sorted. I got a set of adjustable sprockets from Falicom in America. They arrived in two days and cost less than £200 inc post. Check out their website at www.faliconcranks.com

[BURNER]

Bump

[Iansv]

Captains log - supplemental


PMSL :lol:

[johnnyrod]

Bump

What are the results then? And is setting the timing of the '03 cams the same as for the older ones (same marks etc.)? I've ridden my mate's SV700 with stage 2 JHS cams and the extra top end is great, hopefully I can get it for a bit less though.

[northwind]

My K3 intakes are just over there :arrow: Sometimes I look at them, they look back, and challenge me to do something with them. I'm using the excuse that i need to get my post-can-jets-and-filter dyno figures before I can do it...

[RenamedMonkey]

How has this can of worms opened up again? :lol:

[Ziguy]

So, what are the results of that mod???

[northwind]

Your pushrods snap like rotten twigs :)

No, not really. Tell you what, give me a few weeks and I'll tell you. If you want to see the figures, there's some for the JHS ones (which as far as we can tell, are exactly the same) on their website.

[BURNER]

Ah this is what I was looking for......

[northwind]

You absolute sod! I spent about 15 minutes looking for this earlier on, and then a message pops up in my inbox "You are receiving this email because you are watching the topic, "JHS stage II cams for $200" at www.SV650.org. This topic has received a reply since your last visit"

B**tard!

[BURNER]

A simple THANK YOU would have sufficed. :lol:

[northwind]

Not 3 hours after I find it myself, no!

[BURNER]

Only took me a few seconds :lol:

[BURNER]

Yup, got me some cams, never cost me no $200- tho ;)

I now have so much stuff to fit to my bike I'll need a whole weekend to do it :roll:

[northwind]

This is the longest lived thread that has ever existed on any mesageboard, isn't it? :)

[BURNER]

Why start new ones and run the risk of repeating yourself?

[northwind]

You're right- Why start new ones and run the risk of repeating yourself?

[BURNER]

You're right- Why start new ones and run the risk of repeating yourself?

Ditto

[Barty_b0y]

Why start new ones and run the risk of repeating yourself?
yeah why

[Iansv]

](*,)

[northwind]

I don't know... But Burner does- Burner, why start new ones and run the risk of repeating yourself?

[BURNER]

I'll get back to you on that.....