View Full Version : For all those wanting 700cc
454697819
20-09-04, 12:35 PM
Hey all
Recently have become very interested in tuning the sv
but doing big dtyle using the engine not bolt ons!
Jhs 700cc kit is very expensive i thought and so as i will be doing all the labout myself i would investiget wiseco pistons!
I have found a dealer in england called www.wiseco.co.uk
who will according to the price list supply a 700cc kit for 144.64 (i assume plus vat) = £167.70! plus a rebore at say 30 - 40 quid, thats just over £200 squid for more cc! then i can start with jet kits etc!! this includes, pistons rings, clips, wrist pins and head gasket! seems good to me!
I estimate it will take about a week to do myself, including getting rebored to suit! acording to the jhs website the 700 kit gives 74bhp at the back wheel! ill get mine dynoed before and after!
I think this wil be the route i take!
Oh im tuning as i wont be getting a tl anymore cause it will be £947 tpft! :shock:
over the 400tpft i will probably pay when i tune the sv!
Any questions feel free to ask, or visit the website, look through the online catologue and then search on the price list the code!
simon-temple
20-09-04, 03:58 PM
Just a thought what will the compression be? I know you are increasing the width of the bore but if the pistons at TDC are flush with the top of the cylinder the compression will increase. This may give problems with pre-ignition no?
I'm not sure but thought it's worth mentioning. Keep us up to date with the project as it goes along.
Simon
454697819
20-09-04, 04:07 PM
It states that they are standard compression!
however whil the engine is in that many pieces i will probably fit the ignition advancer, not surebout the cams though, might be able to get the reground rather than having to get newer or exchange ones. however could double the cost and put it out of my price range if i need cams aswell!
I was questioning wether i could get away with re shmming, but to what i have no idea! :lol:
Still in reaserch and **** up stage!
Alex
What about the cams?
You much for those?
I'm running 73 bhp on the back wheel already with just can, jetting and K&N. I'm not sure going to 700cc is worth it for just one pony....
weegaz22
20-09-04, 05:05 PM
stage 2 cams will only cost 100 quid to do
northwind
20-09-04, 07:04 PM
K3 cams work out £63 per cam, list price, plus the cam chain tensioner gaskets, which are a couple of quid. Mine are in the garage waiting for a quiet weekend.
The piston sets JHS used to sell were Wiseco... Wiseco UK gave me the same quote when I emailed them a couple of months ago.
JHS are using JE forged pistons now which James Holland reckons are a step up in quality, whether this is worth the extra £150 or so I don't know.
Don't forget that the bores will need to be either a. sleeved or b. re-plated after the re-bore. It is an alloy block that is coated specially from the factory as standard.
Just making sure you don't overlook that point.
Most gains will be made by making it breathe better. just increasing capacity without doing any work on the induction/exhaust is ****ing in the wind.
Try running around the block breathing through a straw. Alterations will ned to be made to the lift or duration of the cams to give you a real benefit. Naturally the fuelling and air filter needs attention too.
simon-temple
21-09-04, 07:22 AM
and you thought it was going to be simple :D
454697819
21-09-04, 12:10 PM
Lol
never said it would be simple! :lol: :lol:
The air and exhaust were a seperate mater and were going to get done at the same time i just didnt mention it,
Whats this about the k3 cams??
iv heard a bit but not entirly sure!
I might end up just saying screw it gettin the tl any way! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Alex
northwind
21-09-04, 06:54 PM
I could be wrong, but I don't believe the 700cc bore-out involves either of those processes, juts poring and polishing. The bigger ones specify that they need new liners, but the 700cc doesn't...
K3 intake cams have the exact same lift and duration as the Yoshi stage 2 intake cams, and then you transfer your original intakes to the exhaust side (as the intakes have the same specs as the Yoshi stage 2 exhausts) A search for K3 AND cam should get you a massive old thread on the subject...
northwind
21-09-04, 06:54 PM
I could be wrong, but I don't believe the 700cc bore-out involves either of those processes, just boring and polishing. The bigger ones specify that they need new liners, but the 700cc doesn't...
K3 intake cams have the exact same lift and duration as the Yoshi stage 2 intake cams, and then you transfer your original intakes to the exhaust side (as the intakes have the same specs as the Yoshi stage 2 exhausts) A search for K3 AND cam should get you a massive old thread on the subject...
Since the 700cc kit requires an expansion of the bore it will require re-coating or sleeving. Otherwise the pistons will be running in straight alloy, not good.
Good info on the cams though.
weegaz22
22-09-04, 01:59 AM
Since the 700cc kit requires an expansion of the bore it will require re-coating or sleeving. Otherwise the pistons will be running in straight alloy, not good.
Good info on the cams though.
the original blocks dont have a coating on them, they are sleeved, and im pretty sure there is enough material for the 1mm overbore(or whatever it is) to still retain their strength, when you got to 750 they then need the old sleeve pushing out the alloy machined and a new one pressed in
SV uses standard liners & can be bored out & honed. Mine was any way as the 700 pistons are only 3 mm bigger it only needs 1.5mm removing from the liner thickness leaving plenty of meat left on them. Had mine dynoed & it was just over 74 but the chain & sprockets were totally fooked the graph looked like a bent saw blade (teeth up). Still I got what I needed from it ie it needed 1 size up on the main jet, needle dropping 1 notch & airscrew loosened off to richen it up down bottom. Already replaced chain & sprockets but going to alter gearing too 16/47 as it used to be 16/45 (It pulled like a train in all of the gears exept top of 5 & 6). Also I use a 530 chain kit for extra durability.
454697819
22-09-04, 01:09 PM
thanks for that! very useful info!
Do you reckon a k&n and 700cc kit would do the job??
instead of faffing around with main jets etc????
Cheers
Alex
weegaz22
22-09-04, 01:22 PM
you will need to do the jetting anyway as you have increased the capacity and air going in, so will need to increase the fuelling to suit
simon-temple
22-09-04, 02:07 PM
never had an oversized rebore kit but I would imagine your going to have to see about setting up the bike to run cleanly otherwise you're asking for trouble.
No because the jetting is to correct the fuel/air mixture. However as I have a Micron & K&N fitted I can give you my carb settings which should be close too what you need.
From my engine theory it should have bigger carbs not jets, as davyw says the mixture is going to be ok.
From my engine theory...
Oh lordy.
.
northwind
22-09-04, 05:48 PM
He did mention a K&N though, and to get the best out of that you'll want to rejet... And I'm assuming that most people who're doing the 700cc bore will already have a race system or at the absolute minimum a race endcan on, combine that with a performance air filter and you'll want to rejet.
From my engine theory...
Oh lordy.
.
LOL, well my theory is pretty good its my practical that's shot to pieces.
weegaz22
22-09-04, 07:26 PM
From my engine theory it should have bigger carbs not jets, as davyw says the mixture is going to be ok.
hence why i said capacity AND air going in, as he was enquiring abot the K&N
weegaz22
22-09-04, 07:35 PM
and anyway if you increase the capacity you will be increasing the amount of air and the velocity at which the air will travel through the carbs and ports, the jet will only deliver a certain amount of fuel before it becomes restricted, hence why you need to go up a jet size
so by your theory if i put a 1000cc cylinder onto my sv then i would still be able to run 137.5 jets?
21QUEST
22-09-04, 10:21 PM
From my engine theory...
Oh lordy.
.
:lol:
454697819
23-09-04, 08:13 AM
The only problem i can see is if, i increase cylinder capicity, the engine works on a vaccum to get the fuel in, right? so surley by increasing it by a 6th im fairly sure that it would suck what it needed from the carbs, unless it sucks em dry!
However, as the jhs team mention a k&n with the 700cc kit i will assume it works, so i will fit it and then get the local bods to dyno and balance the carbs and get it running lovely and sweet!! i will get an end can ut it will have to have a removable baffel, :(
because im a wuss!
Alex
weegaz22
23-09-04, 12:32 PM
The only problem i can see is if, i increase cylinder capicity, the engine works on a vaccum to get the fuel in, right? so surley by increasing it by a 6th im fairly sure that it would suck what it needed from the carbs, unless it sucks em dry!
However, as the jhs team mention a k&n with the 700cc kit i will assume it works, so i will fit it and then get the local bods to dyno and balance the carbs and get it running lovely and sweet!! i will get an end can ut it will have to have a removable baffel, :(
because im a wuss!
Alex
your engine is pulling in more air than what it is setup for, that is why you re-jet when you change to an aftermarket filter and exhaust, because you are changing the volumetric efficiecy of the engine, more air in requires more fuel in to get a bigger bang to make more power, the jhs team(oh god :lol: ) also have a dynojet kit next to the 700cc kit with the bmc filter and m4 system
anyway if you are doing this yourself what the problem with doing the carbs? im sure if you can strip and rebuil an sv motor with a bigger bore kit on it then carbs shouldnt be a problem
weegaz22
23-09-04, 12:36 PM
you will need a full system to get the full benefit of the 700cc kit as the stock headers become quite restrictive with this capacity and will hold back the full power gain you should get, ask rob willet
454697819
23-09-04, 12:53 PM
Doing the carbs a int a problem in the slightest! already overhauled once! lol,
What i was concerned about is getting the right size jets and then getting the mixture right, so if i could source all the bits that jhs use cheaper i could get the same effect as having them do it all but a hell of a lot cheaper!!!!
And if i can get 1 kit or solution that would sort the fuling and air out in one box so to speak it would be piece of mind for me so when i put it all back to gether it will work!
hmm but do i go for exhaust or cams???
so far its looking more pricy than what i wanted,
big bore kit £165
Re bore £45
k&N £135
Braided Hoses £75 - A Must!
Exhaust £450 - (micron or sommat)
Cams £126
Total - £996
Plus the hike in my insurance, to about £500
So if the mods are 1000 and insurance 500 total = £1500
Extra on top of selling sv for a TL is £1000 plus insurance At £1000 = £2000
so if there is only 500 quid in it, i still might go for the TL as this would also solve the SV being to small for me. As much as i leave it in the rain it hasnt grown and inch! :(
Alex
Without doubt the TL is the better option - mega bike.
.
454697819
23-09-04, 01:05 PM
But a grand tpft????
Should i really do it, after all it will be the last yr i can lavish bikes on myself for a while as i will have to find somewhere to live away from home next year!!!!
Thats almost like a small loan and about 40% of the bikes initial purchase cost.
Alex
northwind
23-09-04, 06:16 PM
Acrapovic systems come and go on Ebay for under £300 if you're willing to be patient- my WRP was only £200 (i may have mentioned that 4 or 5 hundred times) and someone on here found a UK distributor for them selling at £300- great buy... Don't buy the Micron system, it's better designed but it's not physically any larger in bore than the stock.
A heavily modded SV's going to put up your insurance too, remember.
From a purely logical point of view, it's probably a bad idea to mod an SV like this... But I'm not doing it from a rational point of view, I'm doing it because I love my little bike and I love meddling with it.
454697819
24-09-04, 08:36 AM
Yeah, i know
you dont get any money back when you sell it, possibly less reliable
no dealer would want mine etc etc etc!
But im from your point of veiiw, there is nothing rational about lavishing cash on these bikes, and thats the point, even if you use it every day its still you precious toy! and its there to make you feel good and have fun!
If catherine passes before March and still wants it then she can have it in standard form and ill look for a tl! (dam peak price time)
Alex
weegaz22
24-09-04, 01:11 PM
buy the tl and spend 500 quid on chucking away the rotary damper and your laffing :wink:
northwind
24-09-04, 06:10 PM
Coincidentally, I came across the ex-racer TL1000 again today- last time I saw it it was being MOTed and still looked fast, today I was overtaking a car on the bypass, wide open throttle, doing something like 50% more than the speed limit, and this missile thunders past me, making me look as slow as I'd made the car look.
But then, it's had all the mods and the owner still finds it a major handful, he reckons on it doing something terrifying and unpredicatable once every two thousand miles or so...
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