Front fork upgrade

[Shooter]

Local Mag ( Kiwi Motorcycle Rider) down here ( New Zealand) just ran an article on front fork upgrades for SV650 using emulators.

May have missed it on this forum but anyone heard of Traxxion Dynamics

http://www.traxxion.com

Check it out but the mag article was compelling reading about improving suspension and handling for SV650 bikes. (Written br "Dr" Robert Taylor - suspension guru and local distributor for Ohlins & Traxxion products). The product evidently produced very good results.

Will look into it further.

[rictus01]

I've no doubts, these would make a significant differance.

However you have to look at what your fitting them to?

Lets face it the SV is a budget bike and was ment to be so.
If you're going to go spending vast sums of money on it, you'd be much better of getting something with better technology built into the front as standard.

the spring/oil/ air gap mod is cheap, does a good job over standard, and makes the bike handle well enough.

Although I've done lots of mods to the SV all have been done with this in mind.

Unless you've got racing in mind, I'd say save your money for petrol and tyres.

Cheers Mark.

[johnnyrod]

These look unnervingly like the Racetech emulators - I believe Traxxion supply them as a part of their "kits." You're right in that if you want ultimate performance then you don't mess around and get cartridge forks. I've got these emulators (from Racetech, via PDQ in Maidenhead), and I think they're top kit. I fitted stiffer springs and set up the forks on a friend's SV and while we found this makes a big difference, he's decided he still wants to shell out for the emulators after riding mine (emulators+stiffer springs etc.). It's a mod I'm glad I've done cos it I think it makes a significant difference to the degree of control over the compression damping, and you're welcome to ride it to see.

As for cost, the Traxxion kits are a bit steep. The emulators from Racetech are about £110 (GBP), all you have to do is trim 1"/25mm (the height of the emulator) off the fork spacer tube, and drill out the compression damping holes in the damper rods (so that the emulator controls this not the rod), then slap it all back together, dead easy.

[Andy4us]

THe parts that Traxxion supplies are the Racetech emulators, but they use a different (larger) one than Racetech normally uses, and machine it down. Their damper rods are just drop inreplacements for the stock ones, otherwise you have to braze shut some holes and drill out others in the stock damper rods. You shouldn't just shorten the spacers by the length of the emulator, you should really change springs at the same time to match your weight and set the spacer to give the correct sag.

Traxxion is a really good company, Max really knows his stuff. I have a bunch of his parts in my GSXR forks on the SV.

Andy

[Robw#70]

The 4101 emulator is what is used in K3> sv's and is slightly larger, but only because the hole inthe top of the K3 rod is larger, performance wise there is no difference between the 4101 and 3801 (for carb bikes).
With the correct spring selection and setup the damper rods do not need to be braized

[johnnyrod]

There is no mention of brazing anything in the instructions with my emulators, andI can't imagine you'd want to. As fro sag, this should always be aet up properly with the spring weight etc. I took that as read.

[Andy4us]

There is no mention of brazing anything in the instructions with my emulators, andI can't imagine you'd want to. As fro sag, this should always be aet up properly with the spring weight etc. I took that as read.

Depends which version of the instructions you get. At some point brazing some of the wholes has been suggested, othertimes only drilling out some of the holes.

Andy

[davyf]

Personally I would stick with racetech they have been doing it a lot longer. When I fitted mine about 4 years ago they had loads of set up info & were very helpful. To be honest if race tech make it I can't see the point of a bodged version of one of their emulators from someone else..

[Shoepavillion]

Lets face it the SV is a budget bike and was ment to be so.
If you're going to go spending vast sums of money on it, you'd be much better of getting something with better technology built into the front as standard.

Unless you've got racing in mind, I'd say save your money for petrol and tyres.

Cheers Mark.

Hmm......
So you are saying basicly that its pointless to spend anything over like 2000 dollars on an sv because its a budget bike and was meant to be so right?
How much does a gsxr cost over in the UK? For my example im going to use us dollars.
An Sv costs about 2500 dollars less than a gsxr 600 .
Take that 2500 and completly upgrade the suspension, get a full exhaust system and a power comander and have money to spare for tyres and nice carbon bits.
Would you still go for the bone stock gsxr?
I wouldnt and instead id have a unique bike. In the real world how much does the sv really give up to the ss/rr bikes. I as im sure do most here have no trouble keeping up to the biger boys, and at the end of the day i spent less and got more.

[rictus01]

Lets face it the SV is a budget bike and was ment to be so.
If you're going to go spending vast sums of money on it, you'd be much better of getting something with better technology built into the front as standard.

Unless you've got racing in mind, I'd say save your money for petrol and tyres.

Cheers Mark.

Hmm......
So you are saying basicly that its pointless to spend anything over like 2000 dollars on an sv because its a budget bike and was meant to be so right?
How much does a gsxr cost over in the UK? For my example im going to use us dollars.
An Sv costs about 2500 dollars less than a gsxr 600 .
Take that 2500 and completly upgrade the suspension, get a full exhaust system and a power comander and have money to spare for tyres and nice carbon bits.
Would you still go for the bone stock gsxr?
I wouldnt and instead id have a unique bike. In the real world how much does the sv really give up to the ss/rr bikes. I as im sure do most here have no trouble keeping up to the biger boys, and at the end of the day i spent less and got more.

OK, lets take your example (can't work in $ as I don't know how much stuff is over there, and I've added fitting as these bits come already fitted to a sport 600).
but, to stand a chance of keeping up you're going to need high 80-90bhp from the engine (lets be real here, just because not many people can use an IL4 sport bike as it should be used, doesn't make the SV better, so I have no doubt you maybe able to keep up, but is it because the SV is an easier bike to ride perhaps?)

So 750 big bore kit(fitted about £450-£500), race filter(£40), full exhaust(fitted £450-£750), timing advance(fitted £60), G-pak(£120), sprocket change (more acceleration)(fitted £100-130). Jet kit or power commander (dependent on bike, £70-£300) to start with, then. lets be conservative and say £100 for dyno and setup time, that will get you close (but still not to full power figures on a new 600 super sports).

Front forks, now you can spend a little money on oil and springs (£70) and set them up to be a whole lot better than standard, or a bit more and fit cartridges, or if you want something to match, get a front end off a 600 IL4, change the bearings and stem (about £500 or so) now this is probably going to be off a bike a couple of years old and not a new one. So the new 600 super sport will still be one up on you.

Brakes, if you don't do the changing the whole front end thing, you will need to modify 4-pot brakes (£100 + someone to mod the brake mountings £££) to replace the 2-pot system fitted to match a 600 super sport, and lets not forget braided hoses (£40-£70)

You will need also, a good rear shock to replace the standard one fitted, and geometry changes to change the steering angle and speed up the turn.( shock say £100 for a re-built GSXR one, to £370 for an Ohlins jobbie, then add the fitting cost)

Then add rear sets(£150-£375), possible a steering damper(£170-£295), lighter body work( anything over £500), stuff like that.

Now you have something that will stand out and be close to a match to a standard "of the shelf" super sport 600, if you've got all that money and time it's great, but if as most people who buy the SV it's because the bike is cheap to insure and run, you don't have that sort of cash floating around.

A couple of years down the line ( when you have a bit more cash and a few years "no claims"), you move onto the 600 IL4, or of course if you got the SV as a hobby bike then, it doesn't really matter and you spend on it what you like, without it making much sense at all anyway.

So in summery, over here you could get a GSXR 600 for about the same as an SV with the engine work done, exhaust sytem and chain & sprockets.

Now most (I'll grant you not all) people couldn't be bothered to get all that work done, and would get the Gsxr, also bear in mind we haven't even gone down the increase in insurance cost route, as the SV would be a highly modified bike, (greater than 10% power increase) so could end up costing more than a supersport 600? :oops:

Based on all this I still think a few cost effective mods to the SV, are the best way and when you really out grow what the SV can do you simply change bike to something more capable.

Having said all of that, (which I do beleive) I've spend loads on my SV, but mine fits into the hobby catagory as well as the used daily one.

Cheers Mark.

[northwind]

On the other hand, modifying bikes is an end in itself... I've already spent more than is probably sensible on mine, but I would still say it's been absolutely worth it, and I'm not done yet.

Out of curiosity, Rictus, I thought the G-Pak essentially just did the same job as the TRE mod? Doesn't seem like a neccesary addition, when you can do it so much cheaper...

[rictus01]

Out of curiosity, Rictus, I thought the G-Pak essentially just did the same job as the TRE mod? Doesn't seem like a neccesary addition, when you can do it so much cheaper...

I never though I'd try the G-pak out as I wouldn't spend the sort of money they go for, but, I got one for £20 at a track day last year and I don't know how it works (yes I did break open the case, but it's a block of resin inside), but back to back with the wire mod, it's better, not £80-£100 better, but better never the less.

As I said, I to have spent more on the bike than reason dictates, but we are exceptions to the rule, rather than most owners. I don't know about you but I don't think my SV could beat a super sport 600, if I were riding it,
Fortunately (and I know this is going to sound big headed, but it's not ment to) there aren't to many out there that ride like me, so most of the time It's not that hard to "keep up" with the super sport guys.



As is my way, I only ever make recommendations on stuff I've tried myself, there's so much hype and rumour about, it's the best way.

Cheers Mark

[northwind]

Fair enough, I'd only ever heard people say otherwise- I know it takes off the 186mph restriction on 'Busas, for instance, so there's more in there than just a rewire, but all I'd ever heard anyone say about it for SVs and GSXRs was that it does the TRE mod.

We can't make the SV faster than an out and out race rep, but we can make it an unexpected surprise for them :) And suspension is one of the better places to do it- no point in trying to turn an SV into a rocketship, it'll blow up, but you can make it do more with what it has... As you know better than me I reckon.

Personally I've not bothered with emulators, for what I ask of it the oil and ohlins change is enough, since I'm far from using everything the SV has to offer. But since it's vbasically the ebst you can do without binning the front end, I can see the attraction.

[rictus01]

I agree, you can make a "budget bike" pull a couple of surprises on the supersport guys, It's just the point of the threat was about spending more on the front than Oil & springs, and honestly I don't think most need it, you could spend that money on lots of other bits (like a rear shock upgrade) if your budget was limited, and lets face it if it wasn't? then just add everything :shock:

Cheers Mark.

[snoopy]

I'm with Rictus on this one. At the moment I could sort out both suspension, race prep the engine and sort out the rusting sub-frame. Or I could for the same money go and buy something newer, better performance (engine, brakes, suspension), better mpg, and better finish.

I bought the SV because its a good looking, practical low-cost workhorse with an alu frame. Apart from small tweaks to improve engine efficency I can't see changing the suspension to be a reasonable option. My wallet doesn't think so either.

[northwind]

It depends entirely on your mindset- I know that for Rictus, a bike is a tool to be used to the max til it's worn out, and then replaced- a very sensible approach. All the mods are made to enable it to be used to the max (at least, I think that's a fair summary)

But for me... Well, I'm a hopelessly addicted customiser. I have a £150 guitar which I've spent £300 on parts for, and an SV with something like 50% of its original cost invested in parts that frankly I don't need- the SV's power's never been drastically too little for me, and I could have achieved most of the suspension benefits (that I use anyway) with the Busa shock I bought for a tenner...

But like I said, the mod's an end in itself. At the moment, there's not really another bike I want- the Daytona 650, new Speed Triple, and the 2 new KTM widowmakers will all change that, but realistically I have a fair way to grow with the SV before I can honestly say I've outgrown it as it is, and I can make it grow with me as well. And to be totally honest, I'd probably rather have my SV with £1500 worth of mods (probably about there now) than £4000 worth of "better" bike but no budget to hack it about.

Oh aye, but this all goes more or less for DIY mods- occasionally I'll have to draft in the pros, but I'd never, for instance, take the bike to a tuner and say "fit these K3 cams" or similiar. Takes half the point out of it for me.

I'm not saying anyone else is wrong, just that there's more than one answer, and going at it logically isn't neccesarily an approach you can apply to bikes :)