View Full Version : Timely Reminder: Think Carefully Before Viewing.
This vid seems wrong for any number of reasons, but might just make you think about your riding and other road users. The contents are pretty graphic so do NOT watch this if you're easily upset.
http://petrongelli.com/motorbikin/badr1accident.wmv
Sid Squid Added:
There has been a request to remove this post, I'm not going to yet, but if there are more objections that might change, if you think you may be offended or upset or whatever, DON'T WATCH THE CLIP
Incredibly sobering. Ride safe people.
Please delete this post, this video does nothing and should not be on here, it is more suited to Ogrish.
Please delete this post, this video does nothing and should not be on here, it is more suited to Ogrish.
Sorry Patch. I don't agree. This clip is nothing like you get on Ogrish. They celebrate gore and violence. That is not my intention. The accident itself is not shown. Only the aftermath. And as M65 says, that is the sobering part.
The next time I feel like riding like a hooligan, I hope I remember this clip. Cos after an accident - whether it's my fault or someone else's - others are left to pick up the pieces.
Itching 2 go
17-12-04, 10:19 AM
QUITE RIGHT! leave the clip it stands out an an account of an accident scene that millions of people will never whitness and so not know how bad dangerous driving/riding can get and the results at the end of the day. as someone that has never whitnessed this first hand i find this video insightfull and sobering. it certainly makes me reconsider the way i ride.
skidmarx
17-12-04, 10:25 AM
bloomin' heck........ not sure I wanna see too much of this kind of stuff, but a timely reminder indeed..... Could it make a part of the CBT? It WOULD make me think a bit more before getting on the bike......Bloomin' heck....
timwilky
17-12-04, 10:56 AM
Thats horrible. It certainly made me think so for the right reasons and some not
Right reasons were what caused this and I think it is fairly obvious that the car turned left infront of the bike. But judging to the damage to the car/bike and position of car on traffic island I guess the poor sod on the Yam was hoofing it a little.
Wrong reasons
Voyerism.
But what the hell were people doing shifting evidence. I am just glad the guy was there with his camera to show evidence was being moved
Yep, that ain't nice but for people like me it serves a purpose. As my confidence on the bike grows day by day through riding seeing things like that just makes me think before the over confidence sets in and i start riding beyond my abilities, certainly made me think.
Poor fella, he must have hit that car at a fair old rate though.
It's not voyeurism, it's reality. Too much these days is sanitised, and it does no harm to see the hard reality of what happens.
All bikers should see stuff like this. I suspect this is pretty clean and tidy compared to a lot of what the emergency service folks have to deal with daily.
As said before, you don't get that sort of mechanical damage at 30mph, and yes it appears the car was turning across the road (driving on right, turning left). Just goes to reinforce the advice that you have to assume they haven't seen you and they will turn across or emerge from a sideroad.
The best defence you have is your imagination, just think what could or might happen ahead, and if in doubt, don't.
Live to ride another day.
No words really...
A poignant reminder.
That is a mighty strong reminder of how bad it can get. Initially I wanted this removed, but it will make me more careful, if it does the same for others it should remain on here.
I am astounded how many people do not know how to help and just wander around.
Sid Squid
17-12-04, 01:00 PM
I've looked at it and I think it should stay, the accident isn't shown only the wreckage and whilst it certainly seems as if the rider is dead, (no movement, no-one even attempting to treat him), I don't consider this gory particularly.
Enough objections, or if Doug changes his mind and scrubs his own post, and it'll go, but for the meantime it stays.
FWIW, I think it's fairly clear what happened, what I'm not so sure about is the assumption of high speeds, the main wreckage of the bike is not a great distance from the car and neither is the riders body, it may be possible that the impact between the car and bike dissapated the crash energy into the damage of the car, and the bike didn't have anywhere to go except to stop almost where it was, but even then the body, which in such impacts is almost always propelled over the bonnet - note where the front wheel of the bike is embedded in the car, right on the front arch - isn't a great distance away.
Having seen a sizeable number of smashed bikes in my working life, it's still even now, surprising the damage that a seemingly innocuous comparatively low speed crash can do, my guess, considering just the separation of the wreckage, it wasn't going that fast.
What this really means is we need to be damn careful when we're out and about, they're not looking and it is you that will get hurt.
It's too late for the rider, he's gone already, I feel sorry for the passenger in the car, it seems that they might be injured, possibly legs crushed into the well, nasty. I don't think the driver, (I suspect it's the guy with the white cut-off tee-shirt), is injured at all, the blood on his shoulder is from the passengers facial wound.
I would say it should be left.
Unless you've seen, or been a part of an accident like this, just 'hearing' about those of others never has quite the same impact.
If watching it makes even a single person think twice on the road, then his death has served a purpose and potentially saved the life of another.
As there is a very plain and unmissable warning notice I feel it should stay too. If it only makes one person think twice about how they ride and the dangers out there, particularly at this time of year, then it's relevant.
.
well worth looking at, makes you think
howardr
17-12-04, 03:06 PM
As there is a very plain and unmissable warning notice I feel it should stay too. If it only makes one person think twice about how they ride and the dangers out there, particularly at this time of year, then it's relevant..
=D> =D> =D>
Luckily many of us will never encounter anything like this. Being reminded of how it can get if we're not careful, is invaluable.
Be careful out there ... they're ALL out to get you!
Wiltshire7
17-12-04, 04:35 PM
i think the video goes too far. I think reminders such a big apes 'no leathers' thing is about right. but in that video all i saw was a dead guy on the side of the road and a smashed up bike, while someone was trapped in a car.
i think there gets a point when u have to accept riding will always be a dangerous thing to do, and although keeping it in ur mind will help, a certain amount of innocence is needed if it is to be enjoyed fully.
i doubt ill ride safer for seeing the vid, but the image of him on the road side will remain and possibly distract me while i ride. i dont think that will help at all. its not that the video is extremely graphic, because its not (ive seen alot worse in Iraq), but i think i dont need such a strong reminder when all i want to do is have fun on my bike.
i ride safely, as good a balance between fun and safety as i can find at the momment. this video just made me feel bad, thats all.
howardr
17-12-04, 04:54 PM
FWIW, I think it's fairly clear what happened, what I'm not so sure about is the assumption of high speeds, the main wreckage of the bike is not a great distance from the car and neither is the riders body, it may be possible that the impact between the car and bike dissapated the crash energy into the damage of the car, and the bike didn't have anywhere to go except to stop almost where it was, but even then the body, which in such impacts is almost always propelled over the bonnet - note where the front wheel of the bike is embedded in the car, right on the front arch - isn't a great distance away.
Sorry but (IMHO) you're totally wrong.
The bike looks like an R1/R6 and I believe they have upside-down forks. If you check the video you will see that (from front to back)
1) The front wheel has hit so hard it is EMBEDDED in the car.
2) The forks have snapped at the bottom (leaving the wheel in the side of the car) and at the top.
3) Both fork yokes appear to have been completely demolished and the forks are embedded into the front of the engine - top first.
4) The entire tank/airbox is missing.
5) The rear subframe has simply snapped under the impact.
This just doesn't happen unless you're going BLOODY fast!
The only explanation I can offer regarding the position of the bike and rider (post-impact) is as follows.
a) Given the speed of impact and the size of car, the car will no-doubt have been pushed several yards along the road from where the original impact ocurred.
b) If a moving body (such as a bike) hits an immovable object (such as a car) with enough force, the resultant transfer of energy would probably send both bike and rider in a near-vertical trajectory skywards. This would result in both bike and rider landing somewhere not-too-far-away from the car.
Just my 2p.
I'm sure Jabba will be here shortly with the science ...
i think the video goes too far. I think reminders such a big apes 'no leathers' thing is about right. but in that video all i saw was a dead guy on the side of the road and a smashed up bike, while someone was trapped in a car.
......
i ride safely, as good a balance between fun and safety as i can find at the momment. this video just made me feel bad, thats all.
Which is partly my point images like are on that video do not contribute to road safety on bit, because it goes too far.
Aside from which imagine you were on this ride out and later you find that the images of your dead mate are being posted all over the internet, pretty bad taste IMHO. Respect our fallen comrades their image is not for your amusement positioned as some sicko road safety message.
If that is acceptable here then I guess I am at the wrong site see you around
Itching 2 go
17-12-04, 05:12 PM
This vid seems wrong for any number of reasons, but might just make you think about your riding and other road users. The contents are pretty graphic so do NOT watch this if you're easily upset.
http://petrongelli.com/motorbikin/badr1accident.wmv
Sid Squid Added:
There has been a request to remove this post, I'm not going to yet, but if there are more objections that might change, if you think you may be offended or upset or whatever, DON'T WATCH THE CLIP
now i see this as adequite warning not to view this video if you will be offended and if people read the first couple of reply's they will be even more aware what the video contains. and to be honest you dont need to click on the link if you dont want to. no one is forcing you to watch it. and if you do click on it and get upset or feel disterbed part way through the vid then close the window.
there is no point removing the video as it will possibly slow some riders down. and possibly save a life or two. would you like to remove the oportunity for this vid to do good for some individuals?
as the vid is here now i feel it should stay.
and as for the pictures of wrecked leathers, to be honest yes i agree that they offer a warning but not the type of shock factor warning.
This vid seems wrong for any number of reasons, but might just make you think about your riding and other road users. The contents are pretty graphic so do NOT watch this if you're easily upset.
http://petrongelli.com/motorbikin/badr1accident.wmv
Sid Squid Added:
There has been a request to remove this post, I'm not going to yet, but if there are more objections that might change, if you think you may be offended or upset or whatever, DON'T WATCH THE CLIP
now i see this as adequite warning not to view this video if you will be offended and if people read the first couple of reply's they will be even more aware what the video contains. and to be honest you dont need to click on the link if you dont want to. no one is forcing you to watch it. and if you do click on it and get upset or feel disterbed part way through the vid then close the window.
there is no point removing the video as it will possibly slow some riders down. and possibly save a life or two. would you like to remove the oportunity for this vid to do good for some individuals?
as the vid is here now i feel it should stay.
and as for the pictures of wrecked leathers, to be honest yes i agree that they offer a warning but not the type of shock factor warning.
Its not about being "disturbed by the images" (I've seen far worse in my time) its about respect for the dead. If the bikers body was covered fine but the person who filmed that made sure that he got the riders face and I am sorry that demonstrates the motive of the person holding the camera was sick voyerism and nothing to do with recording the scene. By alowing that link here the site supports that voyersism.
Respect the dead, especially other bikers as theres a lot of us who have lost friends in exactly this type of accident, this is too close to home.
Patch & Wiltshire
I understand and respect your view, but I don't agree.
I see reality. It's not sick amusement, it's not "going too far", it's REALITY. How can reality be "going too far"?
It's a factual record of the scene, of the sadness, of the shock affecting those at the scene, disbelief, of people feeling helpless. If you were there it's what you would have seen (and in a remote sense what you would have felt).
I don't see macabre voyeurism, I see someone with a camcorder who felt (at the time) it might be wise to record the scene; in hindsight they might have decided differently, but it was a real time on the spot decision. I understand your argument that posting the video could be seen as unpleasant, but there is a warning on this thread.
As someone said before, if it helps just one rider to take things just that little bit easier, then it has served a worthwhile purpose.
Things staged for effect, or dwelling on people's pain as often seen in the media today, are distasteful, but this is just fact. My view anyway.
I see someone with a camcorder who felt (at the time) it might be wise to record the scene;
And I see somebodys son, husband, father, friend lying by the side of the road. Not wanting to be emotive but I have lost three friends in this type of accident this year alone. I can not guess how I would feel if that was their image on that video.
Who ever used that video was indeed recording the scene but not for evidential value.
I just don't think that this video (and this thread) demonstrates the right level of respect for those who have been lost and those that have lost them.
Itching 2 go
17-12-04, 05:39 PM
Patch & Wiltshire
I understand and respect your view, but I don't agree.
I see reality. It's not sick amusement, it's not "going too far", it's REALITY. How can reality be "going too far"?
It's a factual record of the scene, of the sadness, of the shock affecting those at the scene, disbelief, of people feeling helpless. If you were there it's what you would have seen (and in a remote sense what you would have felt).
I don't see macabre voyeurism, I see someone with a camcorder who felt (at the time) it might be wise to record the scene; in hindsight they might have decided differently, but it was a real time on the spot decision. I understand your argument that posting the video could be seen as unpleasant, but there is a warning on this thread.
As someone said before, if it helps just one rider to take things just that little bit easier, then it has served a worthwhile purpose.
Things staged for effect, or dwelling on people's pain as often seen in the media today, are distasteful, but this is just fact. My view anyway.agree compleely.
Sid Squid
17-12-04, 06:24 PM
Sorry but (IMHO) you're totally wrong.
Fair enough, your thoughts, my thoughts, that's what makes the world go round.
Whilst I'm not convinced, I accept what you're saying entirely, I was just trying to put forward the concept of very, very bad things happening and you're not really needing to go that fast for that to be the case, I have seen seemingly unbelievable damage done at comparatively low speeds, thus I'm also suggesting that your bowling along at a - legal - say 50-60 mph is not a reason for complacency.
Lets be careful out there.
Where have I heard that before? :)
These sort of video's don't stop people going fast. It's the same as black lungs don't make smokers give up, or Police Camera Action video's make people think twice. Get it off here.
I'm on Linux and have no wmv sound but from what it looks like this is another ******** R1 rider (r.i.p) on a power trip. From the look of the bike he was going at some silly speed.
ArtyLady
17-12-04, 07:22 PM
I wonder if the dead riders family had given permission for this to be shown? (I doubt it somehow) - Would it even be needed? If they did maybe it was to try and shock other riders into being more careful so his death wouldnt be in vain - a bit like the girl who overdosed on heroin and the parents allowed the pic of her body to be published :(
Ride safe everyone
Patch, I can assure you that I did not post the link for my or anyone else's "amusement". The images on the clip forced me to think - at least for a moment - about my own riding. It brought it home to me that I am not indestructible and could easily have been - or be - that rider lying in the road. I thought others might feel the same way. Some of the replies appear to justify that view and for that reason, I think the post was worthwhile.
I cannot comment on the motives of the person who filmed the scene. I know not whether it was another rider, car passenger or passerby. To me, it appears insensitive to film in those circumstances. Hence, my original comment that the clip seemed wrong on many levels. However, that is a separate issue. I would point out though that at no stage do you see anyone at the scene try to stop the cameraman, including the other bikers present.
I don't agree that by permitting me to post the link, the site is condoning voyeurism. First, my intention was not to gain or promote pleasure from the images shown. Secondly, the images on the clip are no worse than anything we can see in the papers or on television. Thirdly, there was a health warning regarding the contents (thanks Sid Squid), and the viewer controls what he or she views. Fourthly, I don't agree that by watching the clip I am disrespecting the dead. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Lastly, I regret that because of this post you feel you're at the wrong site. I hope you don't leave just because of this.
Which is partly my point images like are on that video do not contribute to road safety on bit
I have to disagree entirely. These are the sort of reality scenes that make a huge difference to me and affect me greatly, always being in the back of my mind helping to prevent me riding like a complete idiot.
because it goes too far.
No, it really doesn't.
Aside from which imagine you were on this ride out and later you find that the images of your dead mate are being posted all over the internet, pretty bad taste IMHO.
Bad taste? Let's get this right, you think something that could positively influence and well prevent the same misfortune on another biker is distasteful? Strange.
Respect our fallen comrades their image is not for your amusement positioned as some sicko road safety message.
As for the mere suggestion that anyone finds this "amusing", have you been smoking something? I mean that statement alone is way out of order and I deeply resent it, as I'm sure others on this forum do too.
If that is acceptable here then I guess I am at the wrong site see you around
Yes patch I think that could well be the case. See ya.
.
Wiltshire7
17-12-04, 08:05 PM
well if it helps some people slow down then i say they r gonna be in trouble ta some point anyway. i dont think its extremely graphic, as i said i think its a good idea to shock people into slowing down... but that video doesnt do it for me in the least.
do u really think the camera man was tyring to record it for evidence? i really, REALLY doubt it.
as i say, if u wanna be very safe then dont ride. if u ride u know ur in some danger, but thinking of the dead while riding will take the fun out of it. for me at least.
id rather have not seen it, and i did read the warning.
Wiltshire7
17-12-04, 08:07 PM
btw, if the worst should happen to me then pls dont put it online... any good motive will be perverted by someone online somewhere.
*touches all wood in sight*
well if it helps some people slow down then i say they r gonna be in trouble ta some point anyway.
Interesting. On what logical basis do you make that statement?
btw, if the worst should happen to me then pls dont put it online... any good motive will be perverted by someone online somewhere.
But would that really matter if it genuinely helped someone somewhere?
.
Thank you for posting this. It is a distressing thing to watch It may or may not be voreristic(sp) But the next time I think about doing something outside of my/my bikes capability I might just think again. Also as may be the case here, I hope it will make me aware that other road user's judgement is also imperferfect and to give consideration for that. An untimely death, however caused is an awful thing. If one is prevented by this then the post has been worthwhile.
fizzwheel
17-12-04, 09:24 PM
:shock: goodness... certainly makes you think about the consequences of your actions... could'nt watch it all made to upset
Mixed feelings really, I dunno what to think. It is a sobering clip - the rider is definitely dead :cry: . I'm surprised no-one covered him up :shock: . The emergency services have to deal with bad accidents all the time. And so do juries in coroners' courts - photos, police & fire service videos, the works. The shots of the rider are not that close, nor of the passenger in the car - the main message to me is oh what a mess, the effect on those milling around.
I have to say that when I came off and was lying on the roadside I was conscious all the time and knew that there were a lot of onlookers. Most drivers slowed down to look, and some because my bike was blocking the road. Some had stopped, no doubt to see if they could help, some wanted to take my lid off. The bloke who'd been coming the other way was a consultant anaesthetist and he knew exactly what to do in a bike accident and, after calling the ambulance, the best thing he did was to keep them all at bay.
Peeps - if you come across this sort of thing then unless you witnessed the accident or can do something positive to help - then push off. Don't hang around, it's just awful. There's nothing worse after lying in the road in agony than having an army of spectators watching you, peering to see just how bad it all is.
And what are you going to do now, having watched the video and read the thread?
I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to book myself on a St John's Ambulance course so that if ever I come across this sort of mess then I can help people who need it most.
Ed
As beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so respect is in the heart of the viewer - regardless of the intent of the cameraman.
I frankly don't care about the motives of whoever first released this film, it has been done and cannot be stopped. How it is received is, perhaps, a different matter.
So far everyone has show a measure of sobriety and respect, regardless of whether it makes them think about their own riding or not. In that I feel we can take pride.
I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to book myself on a St John's Ambulance course so that if ever I come across this sort of mess then I can help people who need it most.
Ed, that's the best post yet. Well done, it's without doubt something we should all do.
.
Wiltshire7
17-12-04, 10:48 PM
Wiltshire7 wrote:
well if it helps some people slow down then i say they r gonna be in trouble ta some point anyway.
Interesting. On what logical basis do you make that statement?
i say this because its self control that keep me at a sane speed. sometimes i remmeber things ive seen on here and other places, but ultimatly its my self control. if u need to see dead people on videos to keep u slow then maybe a car would be better.
im not saying people should do what i say, im just explaining why i said what did, as u asked. each to there own, and i dont expect everyone to agree with me. Just an opinion, hopefully i wont get slagged off too much like patch did for what i think.
vtwinner
17-12-04, 10:49 PM
This is a very difficult call to make, first impressions are for me to question the integrity of the cameraman, I am finding it difficult to comprehend that at a scene like that he should be indulging himself in voyeuristic home movies when people are dying around him, surely as a human being you should aid others at times like these.
On reflection I don't see how this movie can contribute to the cause of road safety without the support of a forensic analysis of what actually happened, all we are seeing is the aftermath, all we are hearing is that if you ride a motorcycle this could happen to you.
A number of race meets and events that I have been to this year have exhibited a stand I think from one of the Bikesafe organisations showing a pretty battered Triumph minus front end, in support of the bike you also have a detailed analysis of what caused the crash and damage to the bike, this contributes to road safety by giving you precise, detailed scientitic analysis of the incident.
A couple of comments have been made " does'nt it make you think about the consequences of your actions", the trouble is we don't know what actions or by whom caused this accident.
I have no problem with the video being on here, I think the warnings were plain enough and I would'nt want to get into the realms of censorship, I think the motives for having the movie on were based on genuine grounds, with more detail which we will probably never get I think that it could have contributed in a more postitive way.
Cloggsy
17-12-04, 11:10 PM
Has this been removed, because it didn't work for me :?:
Which is partly my point images like are on that video do not contribute to road safety on bit
I have to disagree entirely. These are the sort of reality scenes that make a huge difference to me and affect me greatly, always being in the back of my mind helping to prevent me riding like a complete idiot.
If this video is going to save a life it will only be because it stops a person riding a bike. I spent several years investigating serious accidents and the Causes of this are obvious and it has little to do with the rider, the car driver has turned left across the path of the approaching biker.
If it takes images of dead people by the side of the road to make you aware of that risk you should not be on a bike anyway.
This accident scene has nothing to do with riding like an idiot what so ever, There are no skid marks from the bike so it had nothing to do with the speed of the bike and yes that amount of damage would be expected even if the bike was at a leisurly 70 mph
because it goes too far.
No, it really doesn't.
Then we have a different level of what is acceptable maybe that is because I can see people I knew lying in that road and you just see a a stiff
Aside from which imagine you were on this ride out and later you find that the images of your dead mate are being posted all over the internet, pretty bad taste IMHO.
Bad taste? Let's get this right, you think something that could positively influence and well prevent the same misfortune on another biker is distasteful? Strange.
I don't think that it will positively influence any of you long term and even if you remotely consider it whilst riding its distracting you not helping you. Stick it on the car driver sites, the bikers not at fault here, and unless your intention is to scare people away from riding you influence nothing by this
Respect our fallen comrades their image is not for your amusement positioned as some sicko road safety message.
As for the mere suggestion that anyone finds this "amusing", have you been smoking something? I mean that statement alone is way out of order and I deeply resent it, as I'm sure others on this forum do too.
I tell it as I see it, you dress it how you feel comfortable, The Met police have invested thousands on their bikesafe courses with the specific intention of trying to make people think about their riding and to help them stay alive, its not necessary for them to show corpses and it isn't on here either, bad taste and voyerism or misguided and uninformed moderating but tasteless all the same.
If that is acceptable here then I guess I am at the wrong site see you around
Yes patch I think that could well be the case. See ya.
Won't be back, bye
Jelster
18-12-04, 01:16 AM
Personally I have to see some sense in patches comments. You don't need a video of a dead biker and wrecked machine to make realise how vunerable we all are.
I also back his comments about respect for the dead. If you were in a piece of video footage on this forum and were unhappy about it you could ask it to be removed. This guy can't.
Self control saves lives, not sicko videos.
Sorry guys but I'm with Patch on this one.....
.
Maddeath
18-12-04, 01:58 AM
i am a fairly responsible rider who just like all of you like to twist the throttle a little to much at times and i for one think every one who rides or is even thinking of riding should get a look at the harsh realities that can occur with what is by its very nature a very dangerous pass time.
Flamin_Squirrel
18-12-04, 02:43 AM
Wow, why is death such a taboo subject? Everyone i going to suffer from it at some point.
Emotional involvement if anything, clouds judgement and throws objectiveness out the window... it certainly doesnt automaticaly make one an authority on morality. I normaly agree with Patch, but a reply filled with such emotion is hard accept. I disagree that such video is disrespectful - the poor man is dead, it wont bother him. The most likely reason not to like it is because it opens old wounds. In that case if its going to hurt, read the warnings and don't watch.
1) The front wheel has hit so hard it is EMBEDDED in the car.
2) The forks have snapped at the bottom (leaving the wheel in the side of the car) and at the top.
5) The rear subframe has simply snapped under the impact.
This just doesn't happen unless you're going BLOODY fast!
Those things happened to the bike I was riding when a car turned accross me into a juntion and I was doing 30, my bike also ended up 15 feet away from the car that caused the accident. Now if that can happen at 30 then that kind of damage in the video might happen at 40 or 50 or 60, you just don't know.
Also when I left my bike I must have flown about 6 or 7 feet in the air, I'm doing 30mph I'm droping 6 or 7 feet and I weigh 11 stone now if I had landed directly on my head what are the odds I wouldn't have died. Infact you can die falling off a bike while it's stationary so showing some poor sod lying at the side of the road dead isn't really relevant, he could have been parked and the car plowed into him.
Though in all my opinion of showing that video here is that it's wrong, telling us to look out and ride safely or else that could happen to us is not something that is needed, we all know to and for all we know that bloke knew it too and was riding within the law.
vtwinner
18-12-04, 09:12 AM
Just a thought for the Moderators, we so frequently hear the cry of this is a PG rated site.
Is it something we want our children to have access to ???
PG or not PG ? that is the question
Cloggsy
18-12-04, 09:13 AM
Well, I still haven't seen it, so I can't comment :?
vtwinner
18-12-04, 09:21 AM
Well, I still haven't seen it, so I can't comment :?
Don't bother mate, I think the descriptions are a pretty fair assesment of what is the aftermath, it's pretty horrific, it seems to be offending a number of people, think the mods should act now and put it to a poll to keep it or bin it.
Cloggsy
18-12-04, 09:31 AM
Well, I still haven't seen it, so I can't comment :?
Don't bother mate, I think the descriptions are a pretty fair assesment of what is the aftermath, it's pretty horrific, it seems to be offending a number of people, think the mods should act now and put it to a poll to keep it or bin it.
In that case it should be 'binned' for the good of the site... Enough good people have left this site for one reason or another - This site is nothing without the people who fuel it :!: Come on people, lets sort this out :cry:
admin has already put forward his thoughts and I agree, its down to personal choice whether to view, and it says that on the post. I wouldn't say it gruesome as i've seen worse on the news, gives a damn good impression of the aftermath and makes people think about the reprocusions of their actions....
just my 2 cents
Anonymous
18-12-04, 10:26 AM
its truly horrific. but we complain when mps etc take away our rights. there are warnings advising how horrific it is, if you chose to watch then thats your decision. the only thing that upset me was the fact that there was a guy videoing it in the first place and giving close ups of the rider who was obviously dead. no one at the scene seems to be upset that this person is walking round videoing it all.
Itching 2 go
18-12-04, 10:48 AM
This is a very difficult call to make, first impressions are for me to question the integrity of the cameraman, I am finding it difficult to comprehend that at a scene like that he should be indulging himself in voyeuristic home movies when people are dying around him, surely as a human being you should aid others at times like these.
On reflection I don't see how this movie can contribute to the cause of road safety without the support of a forensic analysis of what actually happened, all we are seeing is the aftermath, all we are hearing is that if you ride a motorcycle this could happen to you.
A number of race meets and events that I have been to this year have exhibited a stand I think from one of the Bikesafe organisations showing a pretty battered Triumph minus front end, in support of the bike you also have a detailed analysis of what caused the crash and damage to the bike, this contributes to road safety by giving you precise, detailed scientitic analysis of the incident.
A couple of comments have been made " does'nt it make you think about the consequences of your actions", the trouble is we don't know what actions or by whom caused this accident.
I have no problem with the video being on here, I think the warnings were plain enough and I would'nt want to get into the realms of censorship, I think the motives for having the movie on were based on genuine grounds, with more detail which we will probably never get I think that it could have contributed in a more postitive way.this in my opinion is the most insightfull post here. yes i agree there would be a much better effect if there was an explination of the accident. but as there isnt we will have to draw our own conclusions.
i have read posts saying the guy on the r1 was speeding, saying he must heve been doing the leagl limit, it was the cars fault. it really isnt apparant to anyone as we dont know the facts. as was previously stated there are no skid marks, when was the last time you left a skid mark whilst braking? its not that often yes if you panic brake or are not necessarily in complete control of the bike you will probably lock the rear. whats to say the guy on the r1 wasnt a profesional rider of some description, a police rider? a riding instructor? the point is this could happen to any of us. it doesnt matter how well you have been trained. we all go mad occasionally, equally we all get surprised occasionally.
the video does remind me of an accident safety film shown on national tv, yes thats right national tv at primetime between 7 and 11 in the evening. sponsored by the government. it shows a guy traveling on a 500cc bike round town. a car pulled out and he went spack in the side of the car over the bonnet and nutted the floor. the caamera focused on the car driver in shock then on the guy lieing dead on the floor with blood pooring from his head. so dont tell me we havent seen things like this on tv before now!
granted this was a staged advert but it is supposed to have the same effect as this film. the only main difference is that the video on here has no description of the accident, nor any footage of it. and as previously stated is not staged.
Just a thought for the Moderators, we so frequently hear the cry of this is a PG rated site.
Is it something we want our children to have access to ???
PG or not PG ? that is the question
It's very simple, there is plenty of notice in the title and on the first post, it's simply unmissable. I wouldn't particularly want children to have access to it but on the other hand if it makes them think and start to comprehend the sober realities of life then maybe it has a value for them. And as it doesn't contain sex, nudity etc I honestly don't think the PG thing is a big issue.
Don't bother mate, I think the descriptions are a pretty fair assesment of what is the aftermath, it's pretty horrific, it seems to be offending a number of people, think the mods should act now and put it to a poll to keep it or bin it.
No the site isn't run by committee, we don't need a poll. Some people don't like this post others do. For the reasons I've previously stated I think it should stay.
I'm just amazed that people get so over-emotional. And as Flaming Squirrel says, the guy's (sadly) dead and nothing is going to offend him (that may sound a little callous but I mean it simply as a matter of fact). For the record, if anything happens to me, I'd like pictures, videos, anything you fancy shown so that maybe, just maybe, it would help someone, some how.
.
vtwinner
18-12-04, 12:20 PM
Right, so who is this site run by then, who is the ultimate arbiter of good taste ?
I for one regret the number of people who are expressing their intention to leave the site, the only way that I can see forward for contentious issues to be respolved is for this to be put to a poll,
By Members For Members,
All that is happening now in the way these issues are being moderated is a very small, tiny number of moderators are reflecting their own views and not those of the extremely large membership.
goode262
18-12-04, 12:28 PM
I don't post much anymore, but agree with the moderators to keep the topic/video online.
I used to ride an SV, but gave it up. One of the biggest factors in my decision was making an informed choice about the risks. The reality is that biking is dangerous and this video shows the possible consequences.
I personally didn't want to take the risk anymore, but anyone that rides, and many riders on this site, have made a conscious decision to take the risk. Life is mouded by the decisions you take and not thinking of the effect on your self can be disasterous. This clip may help someone ride more safely, as it seems speed and junctions are deadly. They may make a conscious decision to ride more safely.
The clip shows the reality of the risks associated with biking and if you aren't comfortable with these risks, you have a choice.
Right, so who is this site run by then, who is the ultimate arbiter of good taste ?
This site is run by John Tapley (Admin) and myself - you'll find John extremely fair, polite and helpful. I suggest that if you have any grievance you directly PM John or email him (john@sv650.org). However, we have both agreed that the site is not and will not be run on a committee basis. We try very hard to be objective and allow everyone to have their view providing they stick to the forum's terms and conditions.
I for one regret the number of people who are expressing their intention to leave the site
I would be sad if anyone left but at the end of the day if they don't like it then they have to make their own decisions.
the only way that I can see forward for contentious issues to be respolved is for this to be put to a poll,
By Members For Members
As above, decisions are not reached by a poll. If you have any constructive ideas and suggestions I assure you that they will be duly and carefully considered. John Tapley is your man in this instance I think.
All that is happening now in the way these issues are being moderated is a very small, tiny number of moderators are reflecting their own views and not those of the extremely large membership.
That's called management. If some people have a problem with authority then that's sad. Committees rarely achieve anything worthwhile and there is no way you could effectively run this site like that, sorry.
As regards Moderators, they are chosen because they are considered to think clearly, not offer emotive knee-jerk responses and have the desire and time to oversee posts in their respective area. In this instance, Sid Squid is the moderator and is one of the most experienced and able motorcyclists on this site who possesses a very clear and unbiased outlook, will listen to others' opinions regardless of his personal view and act fairly and decisively - precisely the qualities needed of a Moderator.
You will have noticed that when Doug originally posted there was a cry of shock and Sid Squid looked at the situation, decided the post was relevant and advised Doug to make it very clear (with a big bold red notice) that delicate folks could well be upset. He also considered the subject matter valid and possibly helpful. I stick by him.
.
As shocking as this footage is, including the "possibly macarbe" person that shot the video, and his/her motive for doing so, I think it expresses very frankly and truthfully, what can happen as an end result of an accident.
When I posted pictures of my injuries after my accident, I didn't do it to show off my injuries or how brave I have been or anything like that. I posted them in the hope that people read, looked and digested what injuries you can suffer from a motorcycle accident and the fact that I was wearing leathers and all the protective equipment at the time. My hope was that it would be enough to make people go out and buy that protective equipment and wear it if they were not already doing so. From the responses on my thread it DID WORK and people did go out and buy correct gear.
I am sure that this video was posted on this site for the exact same purpose. It did just that for me when I viewed it.
That's my opinion anyway.
vtwinner
18-12-04, 03:06 PM
Shortly to be followed by the Ken Bigley beheading, just to show what can happen if you choose to work in Iraq.........
Shortly to be followed by the Ken Bigley beheading, just to show what can happen if you choose to work in Iraq.........
That's bang out of order and you know it!
.
Shortly to be followed by the Ken Bigley beheading, just to show what can happen if you choose to work in Iraq.........
What a stupid and irresponsible thing to post.
vtwinner
18-12-04, 03:20 PM
Shortly to be followed by the Ken Bigley beheading, just to show what can happen if you choose to work in Iraq.........
That's bang out of order and you know it!
.
I thought it was a reasoned parallel, althought at least we had an insight into the events both before and after Kens demise.
vtwinner
18-12-04, 03:21 PM
Shortly to be followed by the Ken Bigley beheading, just to show what can happen if you choose to work in Iraq.........
What a stupid and irresponsible thing to post.
Why
goode262
18-12-04, 04:00 PM
Shortly to be followed by the Ken Bigley beheading, just to show what can happen if you choose to work in Iraq.........
What a stupid and irresponsible thing to post.
Why
Because Ken Bigley has nothing to do with riding motorcycles
Itching 2 go
18-12-04, 04:12 PM
not to mention was murdered! :evil: :evil:
vtwinner
18-12-04, 04:42 PM
Might just be me or did I just see a post erased ??
Professor
18-12-04, 04:46 PM
I don't approve of censorship in any form. I think the thread should stay.
Itching 2 go
18-12-04, 04:57 PM
Might just be me or did I just see a post erased ??yes it was mine and it was a pi55 take out of lee. i thought this wasnt really the place for it.
Might just be me or did I just see a post erased ??yes it was mine and it was a pi55 take out of lee. i thought this wasnt really the place for it.
I didn't see it but thanks Joe for keeping this thread a serious one. :thumbsup:
.
Damn that was a long download!
Anyway, regardless of our own feelings and the motivation of the camera man. Things like this do happen, in some cases, to friends of ours.
Without knowing the facts I can't comment on what the R1 rider did/didn't do or what the car driver did/didn't do.
Nothing anybody can say will change the fact that we CAN die during a collision. I've known this for some time, in fact during my last major off the thought ran through my head while I was flying over the bonnet of the BMW that did a SMIDSY.
So if I'm lying in a ditch or at the side of the road. Please I frikkin' beseech you, turn the damn video camera off and give me a hand wontcha?
Itching 2 go
18-12-04, 05:13 PM
Might just be me or did I just see a post erased ??yes it was mine and it was a pi55 take out of lee. i thought this wasnt really the place for it.
I didn't see it but thanks Joe for keeping this thread a serious one. :thumbsup:
.no problem mr boss man, i dont see why i should bring down the status of this thread for my own amusment when it is of such importance.
fizzwheel
18-12-04, 05:14 PM
I think it should stay to,
1. The video is pretty unplesant, but there is a warning and its not like you are forced to watch it you can always choose to close it like I did.
2. It made me think about the consequences of my actions when I'm on my bike which can be no bad thing.
3. I've lost friends in biking accidents and it does bring back old memories, so I can see why some people might find it offensive, but personally I don't.
4. Why do people keep having a pop and the admin team on here, they run the site and thats not gonna change. It's not like we pay to be a member and they give their time up for free, maybe we ought to remember that.
5. Most of the threads are a free for all and a discussion if you don't agree with somebody just remember that they might not agree with you either. And that everybody is entitled to an opinion and to be able to express it.
Just my 50p's worth, I'd just like to state I'm not having a go at anybody or anything. This is just my thoughts and I just wanted to express them
vtwinner
18-12-04, 05:38 PM
4. Why do people keep having a pop and the admin team on here, they run the site and thats not gonna change. It's not like we pay to be a member and they give their time up for free, maybe we ought to remember that.
We do remember that, it also takes members to stimulate debate it's a two way street, I don't think people " Keep having a pop at admin " yeah on occasion it does happen, I think if you read the threads carefully you'll see that these are very often questions posed at admin rather than criticisms.
The points that I have made have been responded to, a number of points I accept a number I don't, it's called debate, yeah some of the posts that I've made probably are thought provoking, maybe difficult to accept, I do however try to support my points with a decent argument.
Itching 2 go
18-12-04, 05:42 PM
I do however try to support my points with a decent argument.
a huh?
Shortly to be followed by the Ken Bigley beheading, just to show what can happen if you choose to work in Iraq.........
That's bang out of order and you know it!
.
I thought it was a reasoned parallel, althought at least we had an insight into the events both before and after Kens demise.
4. Why do people keep having a pop and the admin team on here, they run the site and thats not gonna change. It's not like we pay to be a member and they give their time up for free, maybe we ought to remember that.
5. Most of the threads are a free for all and a discussion if you don't agree with somebody just remember that they might not agree with you either. And that everybody is entitled to an opinion and to be able to express it.
+1
What ? I don't see how people can object to this post. As has been said before by Greg and others there is a huge warning. The video is quite disturbing but an all too closer reminder of what I experienced weeks back.Tim's crash and subsequent injuries DID have an effect on my riding and make me more safety conscious. This is an effect that is a good thing in my book. Seeing this video just before I set out in the dark and cold to ride the 30 miles to work is not really my idea of fun but it will refresh my memory of the downsides and hopefully make me think safety first even more. Admin has it spot on in this case and it is a worthy and thought provoking post. If you don't want to have to think about the hard realities of bike accidents then you don't have to...I choose to do so personally.
Well done Admin for leaving this discussion going.
coombest
18-12-04, 06:51 PM
I feel that I have perhaps the most valuable opinion if this on the site, having been involved in an accident a month ago yesterday, where exactly the same thing that appears to have happened here, happened to me. (I am sure I am not the only person to think this, too)
I do not think that this video should be removed. I did not find it hard to watch although I did find it very depressing that not a single person was helping the injured rider in any way but several people were 'helping' and quite possibly making matters worse for, the passenger of the car that seems to have caused the accident.
I feel very sorry for the dead rider and this makes me realise just how close to death I came 4 weeks ago.
It also makes me even more grateful for the help I was given by chutz (whose opinion on this I would be very interested to hear) and the others who stopped to come to my aid. If it wasn't for them, I could well have ended up like the rider in this video.
Ian (chutz) was greeted with a similar scene to this, where the body lying motionless & unconscious in the road was one of his best mates - me.
I cannot imagine how he must have fely but this video has helped me realise how hard it must have been.
I think that the bad reactions people have voiced on this thread are simply that - overreactions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I agree but to get irate about other people's equally valid opinions is simply wrong.
There is no way any of us should be hypothesising how fast either vehicle was travelling, or even what happened.
I will point out though, that being a race marshal, I get to come into very close contact with very many crashed bikes and it is entirely possiblr for a bike to be completely wrecked to unrecognisable levels at a very sensible speed. You only have to look at the state of my bike after my 40-50mph accident where I hit the front passenger side of a car that pulled accross my path to see the amount of damage that can be sustained at a low speed. I am also still in plaster & in a fair amount of pain and will be for some considerable time yet! The Doctors don't think I will ever be ble to ride a bike again... But I will!
I think all of us who ride have to accept that you might be killed whilst riding your bike. I am not suggesting that we should think "I might die if I do this" as you get on your bike but I don't think anyone is really comfortablle with the risks invlolved with riding a bike until you accept this fact.
I would hope that if I die in a bike accident (or if Ihad died in my accident) that my death would not be in vain... I would be perfectly happy for my image, etc. to be used wherever thought necessary.
One thing about this post is certain... It has been thought provoking.
Surely this was the aim of the post & perhaps even the reason the video was put on the web in the first place.
I thik I have written everything I feel aboout this matter although I lost my original post so if I think of anything more, I will post again!
Coombest said It also makes me even more grateful for the help I was given by chutz (whose opinion on this I would be very interested to hear)
If you could type faster I wouldn't have beaten you to it dude!!! :lol:
I too was amazed and disturbed by the lack of help for the biker.Once someone makes a half hearted attempt to listen for breathing and an even worse attempt to feel for a pulse. I can only assume that they had established before the filming that he was dead and beyond saving. Poor sod
A very insightful and thoughtful post Coombest, thankyou.
And I don't even know you, and only know the details of your accident that have been posted on this forum.
I too found the treatment of the biker depressing. Even if he died quickly (possibly of a broken neck) they could at least have covered his face or something.
Like you, it makes me glad of the attention I received when I had my 'bad one'. Worst thing was I only had my Gym Membership card on me (which was where I was going) and it took the police ages to contect the gym, get my details and contact my parents.
By the time they arrived I had already been wheeled into theatre so they had a rough time of it.
Since then I always make sure I carry ID, with a couple of names and numbers, and a note saying I've got a dog at home who will want to be fed!
Since then I always make sure I carry ID, with a couple of names and numbers, and a note saying I've got a dog at home who will want to be fed!
A very interesting point that. I think I shall do the same in future, cheers.
.
coombest
18-12-04, 08:07 PM
Since then I always make sure I carry ID, with a couple of names and numbers, and a note saying I've got a dog at home who will want to be fed!
A very interesting point that. I think I shall do the same in future, cheers.
.
This is something I have also thought about before. I have seen dog-tags you can have information printed onto which I have always thought about but I am sure I wouldn't remember to wear it all the time! I do usually have my wallet with my driving licence in with me though.
I have also always intended to write down some final wishes just in case the worst should happen. I know my family would not naturally give me the 'send-off' I would want and they just wouldn't do things or deal with my effects as I would wish.
I just haven't been able to bring myself to do it and always kinda thought 'it'll never happen.' I now know how easily it can happen.
I think I will be writing something down fairly soon and leaving a couple of copies with people I trust, to be opened in the event of my untimely demise.
MrMessy
18-12-04, 10:30 PM
1) Nobody was forced to watch the video and a clear warning was given.
2) It was interesting to read comments that the rider must have been speeding, without knowing speed limits and reading a police/coroners report it is unfair to make those assumptions!
3) My youngest brother was killed in a bike accident when a coach pulled out on him and across 2 lanes of a dual carriageway. He had no where top go and insufficient room to stop. A witness who was a motorcyclist said he was excessively speeding due to the noise of the exhaust! This was not proved to be the case by the Police!
4) Enjoy your riding, be carefull and observant. If the worse happens at least you have enjoyed yourself, no point in living a long and boring life :!:
Enjoy your riding, be carefull and observant. If the worse happens at least you have enjoyed yourself, no point in living a long and boring life :!:
Poignant and sadly true. I think most of us would likely agree with that seeing as we all ride bikes.
.
I think the topic has been discussed enough so I won't add too much more to it. I think that the thread should stay (looks like it has anyway).
The fact that this thread has provoked so much discussion seems to indicate that it has done the job that the original poster intended it to do. MAKE YOU THINK!
My £0.02's worth. Not here for an argument.
Jelster
19-12-04, 10:28 AM
I would just point out that my objection to the original posting is one out of respect for the dead. I just think it's wrong, but that's just my opinion, and it has even started a debate between me and one of my best friends (Topcat), but we're not going to fall out over it.
However, if it takes a "real" video to bring home to you the dangers of riding then maybe you shouldn't be out there in the first place.
Why ? Because if you are not aware of the dangers ALL of the time then you have a false sense of safety. Try commuting in London on a daily basis. I've been doing it 2 years and have either seen or passed a number of accidents 3 of which have been fatal. If you want a really sobering thought, here's 2 postings from a guy on another forum I frequent.....
Biker Down & Dead
"sad news.
Marlon was off to see his brother in mansfield (from here, cotgrave) but on the A614 at the Bilsthorpe juntion he got severely rearended major style and was killed instantly. This was Sunday night.
he was a safe bet on a bike, and rode maturely (was 39yrs old). he leaves a wife, a 15 yr old, 11 yr old and a beautifull little 3 year old girl who will never see her dad again, nor will he see her ever ever again.
I was with him on thursday/friday as i was installing a heating system to his house. Monday morning i walked into the house to absolute devastation. You should see what it does family men and you'll never ride again."
And 2 days later he posts again....
"tell you what guys. that's definately it for me regards biking. I just cannot run the risk of not seeing my family grow up. I'd made my mind up on that score just after she told me monday morning at 8am... if you lot had've been there you'd do the same.
The little girl, Evy had done some paintings and she was doing her nut that daddy hadn't seen them yet. i saw them on the table with 'daddy' on them (with mums help) and it broke my heart.
Everyone's happy that i've knocked it on the head.. you'd be surprised how much people worry about you having a bike. my advise is if you've got a young family.. then do the same - the risks on these roads are worse than ever."
Maybe it's because I have a family, but these 2 postings made me think a lot more than this thread has....
.
Wiltshire7
19-12-04, 10:38 AM
but these 2 postings made me think a lot more than this thread has....
agreed. makes me think far more than seeing a dead man. its the affect on others that would most likely make me quit, not the result to myself.
fizzwheel
19-12-04, 10:42 AM
I would just point out that my objection to the original posting is one out of respect for the dead. I just think it's wrong, but that's just my opinion, and it has even started a debate between me and one of my best friends (Topcat), but we're not going to fall out over it.
However, if it takes a "real" video to bring home to you the dangers of riding then maybe you shouldn't be out there in the first place.
Why ? Because if you are not aware of the dangers ALL of the time then you have a false sense of safety. Try commuting in London on a daily basis. I've been doing it 2 years and have either seen or passed a number of accidents 3 of which have been fatal. If you want a really sobering thought, here's 2 postings from a guy on another forum I frequent.....
Biker Down & Dead
"sad news.
Marlon was off to see his brother in mansfield (from here, cotgrave) but on the A614 at the Bilsthorpe juntion he got severely rearended major style and was killed instantly. This was Sunday night.
he was a safe bet on a bike, and rode maturely (was 39yrs old). he leaves a wife, a 15 yr old, 11 yr old and a beautifull little 3 year old girl who will never see her dad again, nor will he see her ever ever again.
I was with him on thursday/friday as i was installing a heating system to his house. Monday morning i walked into the house to absolute devastation. You should see what it does family men and you'll never ride again."
And 2 days later he posts again....
"tell you what guys. that's definately it for me regards biking. I just cannot run the risk of not seeing my family grow up. I'd made my mind up on that score just after she told me monday morning at 8am... if you lot had've been there you'd do the same.
The little girl, Evy had done some paintings and she was doing her nut that daddy hadn't seen them yet. i saw them on the table with 'daddy' on them (with mums help) and it broke my heart.
Everyone's happy that i've knocked it on the head.. you'd be surprised how much people worry about you having a bike. my advise is if you've got a young family.. then do the same - the risks on these roads are worse than ever."
Maybe it's because I have a family, but these 2 postings made me think a lot more than this thread has....
.
thats really sad :cry:
topbird23
19-12-04, 12:13 PM
I have read the posts to this thread and can see why it has caused such a large debate.
I like many others have said, I have a few mixed feelings on the video clip, yes I did watch it but not all the way through.........because I chose to stop the clip.
I dont want to state all the things that I agree with or disagree with as everyone has presented a valid point.
What I will say is that it is the death of another human being, regardless of the circumstances involved (bike accident) that I found upsetting. yet if the video clip had been of another incident like a young child receiving chemo therapy I would feel exactly the same.
It is the empathy that most of us feel for another when we are confronted with pain, loss and suffering, and makes us consider mortality on a personal level and the choices we then make.
Flamin_Squirrel
19-12-04, 05:22 PM
I would just point out that my objection to the original posting is one out of respect for the dead. I just think it's wrong, but that's just my opinion, and it has even started a debate between me and one of my best friends (Topcat), but we're not going to fall out over it.
However, if it takes a "real" video to bring home to you the dangers of riding then maybe you shouldn't be out there in the first place.
Why ? Because if you are not aware of the dangers ALL of the time then you have a false sense of safety. Try commuting in London on a daily basis. I've been doing it 2 years and have either seen or passed a number of accidents 3 of which have been fatal. If you want a really sobering thought, here's 2 postings from a guy on another forum I frequent.....
Biker Down & Dead
"sad news.
Marlon was off to see his brother in mansfield (from here, cotgrave) but on the A614 at the Bilsthorpe juntion he got severely rearended major style and was killed instantly. This was Sunday night.
he was a safe bet on a bike, and rode maturely (was 39yrs old). he leaves a wife, a 15 yr old, 11 yr old and a beautifull little 3 year old girl who will never see her dad again, nor will he see her ever ever again.
I was with him on thursday/friday as i was installing a heating system to his house. Monday morning i walked into the house to absolute devastation. You should see what it does family men and you'll never ride again."
And 2 days later he posts again....
"tell you what guys. that's definately it for me regards biking. I just cannot run the risk of not seeing my family grow up. I'd made my mind up on that score just after she told me monday morning at 8am... if you lot had've been there you'd do the same.
The little girl, Evy had done some paintings and she was doing her nut that daddy hadn't seen them yet. i saw them on the table with 'daddy' on them (with mums help) and it broke my heart.
Everyone's happy that i've knocked it on the head.. you'd be surprised how much people worry about you having a bike. my advise is if you've got a young family.. then do the same - the risks on these roads are worse than ever."
Maybe it's because I have a family, but these 2 postings made me think a lot more than this thread has....
.
I resent that. Seeing value in the posting of that video does not make me or anyone else disrespectful to the dead. Especialy since some of those who've suffered serious injury see value in the post and their views carry more weight that anyone elses.
Saying that you shouldnt be on the bike if you need to see something like this to bring the danger home, but then saying look, heres this post that brought the danger home, thats pretty arrogant.
Jelster
19-12-04, 06:11 PM
I resent that. Seeing value in the posting of that video does not make me or anyone else disrespectful to the dead. Especialy since some of those who've suffered serious injury see value in the post and their views carry more weight that anyone elses.
Saying that you shouldnt be on the bike if you need to see something like this to bring the danger home, but then saying look, heres this post that brought the danger home, thats pretty arrogant.
You can resent it all you want, it's my personal opinion, as are the other comments. It seems many other people aired their views, I'm airing mine.
And I don't consider what I said arrogant, I think about the consequences every time I go out, but I'm older with a family, mabe that's the difference...
.
Just watched this and it is extremely sobering.
I made to choice to watch it and thank the admin team for not removing it.
As for all the people asking for this post to be removed, how dare you presume to know what I or other members of this forum should or should not want to view. Arrogance, you should take a long look in the mirror!
The warning is clear, if you don't want to see it then don't.
I enjoy this site because of the wide varity of opinions which we are ALLOWED to express, lets not take that away.
Flamin_Squirrel
19-12-04, 06:36 PM
Well said Mr Swiss.
And Jelster, everyone else managed to air their views without insults.
Jelster
19-12-04, 07:02 PM
Well said Mr Swiss.
And Jelster, everyone else managed to air their views without insults.
And where did I insult you ?? I get the feeling that you have a problem with people having different views from you.
I have an opinion, it's different from most of the others, but if we all thought the same then there would never be debate. Don't take personally, I just don't think that showing some guys dead body on a piece of dodgy video is right.
And you took what I said in the wrong context (which is not uncommon with text exchanges). The fact that other posting made me think doesn't mean I don't think about the consequences of my actions every time I get on a bike. What I'm trying to address is that if you really needed a wake up call you must have gone past your "best before" date on a bike.
If you take a different view I won't be offended, honestly.... However, I'm not prepared to "hijack" the thread with tit for tat posts. I've said my piece.
.
Flamin_Squirrel
19-12-04, 07:22 PM
Erm, no you disagreed with mine and several other peoples opinion and accused us of disrespecting the dead while you were at it.
I might add, you did this without making any real argument to support your views, dispite those who you were arguing against making valid points.
Wiltshire7
19-12-04, 08:29 PM
we're not even talking about the video anymore.
i think all that can come from contuning to post on this thread is anger and people falling out.
whats the point, let it be.
we're not even talking about the video anymore.
i think all that can come from contuning to post on this thread is anger and people falling out.
whats the point, let it be.
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
leatherpatches
19-12-04, 10:38 PM
Leave the video.
21QUEST
19-12-04, 11:53 PM
I think most people would agree the link to the video was provided with good intention. A few might not have seen it that way but have no right to say it should be taken out. You may have the opinion that the video serves no purpose such as making you think just that little bit more of the consequences of riding a bike. Fine that is all there is to it. If you were in any doubt why bother downloading and viewing it?
It was surprising to note that nobody has actually mentioned the fact that there might be a message for the drivers of cars on how their actions can lead to tragic consequences for those on two wheels(yes I'm assuming the car was at fault and rider possibly doing posted speed limit/not much more). What that they say about 'pictures speaking louder than words' Now imargin moving pictures, Jeez it must be really loud then eh.
Funny human nature isn't it, as I seem to recall a thread some of members of the forum including one who is supposedly on of the older members and married with kids saying that there was nothing wrong with filtering at 80mph. Not getting personal with anyone(but you know yourself :wink: ) but only pointinhg out why human nature can appear to be so fickle at times when people get too emotional.
People die/killed for one reason or another. That is a fact of life and sometimes when their deaths can help the living in one way or another. Hell the guy if he could might even hope his death to be used to help others still living (Fault or non-fault). I know of people who definitely do not want any of their organs to be used in helping other in the event that they lost their life. What I say to them is fine but I hope you have made a fecking will and take a signed statement around with you as I pressume you don't want to be receiving any live saving organs etc from any one else. Guess what the answer usually is.
By the way I have close personal experience of losing a loved one so I'm not being desrespectful to the dead. Death comes to us all and if a death no matter how bad or painful it is can help just one person so be it.
To the admin/moderators 'Big Thumbs Up'. You could do a better job but you are doing okay :) :wink:
Cheers
Ben
NB: any typo was intentional. :wink:
Aaron_T
20-12-04, 12:46 AM
Very sad, and an eye opener for sure. May he rest in peace.
Not to start a different type of debate, but it looks like the car must have pulled out in front of the biker.... :x
vtwinner
20-12-04, 08:11 AM
Funny human nature isn't it, as I seem to recall a thread some of members of the forum including one who is supposedly on of the older members and married with kids saying that there was nothing wrong with filtering at 80mph. Not getting personal with anyone(but you know yourself :wink: ) but only pointinhg out why human nature can appear to be so fickle at times when people get too emotional.
That'll be me then :wink: although possibly not as I only have one bin lid,
it's a valid point you make, suppose it's comes down to the balance we all make in life between risk and reward, can't really add much more to the debate than I already have
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