View Full Version : RGV250 forks on SV650?
http://www.azm.janis.or.jp/~kuroiwa/image/bike/RGV250.jpg
Anyone messed about with RGV250 forks on an SV? The fork diameter is 41mm - same as SV's. Might be able to use same discs and calipers though I believe wheel is different size. Anyone have further info? This could work out a much better option than gixxer forks.
Itching 2 go
18-12-04, 11:18 AM
do you know if thew distance between the forks is the same? if it is then just use the complete front end
http://i7.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/06/c0/f7_1_b.JPG
http://i16.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/07/2a/b1_1.JPG
The forks you show are USD and therefore it’s not the 41 mm stanchions that are clamped by the yolks. I doubt that the top of the fork legs is reduced back to 41 mm although there does seem to be some reduction. You would have to see if the RG yolks are compatible with the SV headstock.
Yeah fit those they're only 720mm long, against the SV's 780mm. The steering geometry will be sharp as a razor. Budget for steering damper :twisted:
RGV runs a 110 tyre, discs are reputed to be the same, spindle is 17mm same as SV. Fork tops are once again +/-50mm or so so you'd need the yokes.
Here's something interesting... http://www.sv650.org/sv_dec02.htm. Search: rgv250
It would appear that the upper rgv250 part will fit the sv650 yolks? I'm trying to find the exact diameters now. I take it the stanction (41mm) is the inner shiny chrome part. Dunno what the name of the other part (lower sv, upper gold on rgv) is called.
Can anyone tell me the SV650 yolk size? Is there any defo info on the RGV yolk size? I'm searching the .net to no avail...
gixerboy1
19-12-04, 01:50 PM
The rgv forks are sprung very soft even for a light bike like the rgv they could do with a harder spring.
I have an rgv and have fitted the forks from a ZX636 to it. It uses a set of yokes I have made for the rgv but required the discs to be spaced a little further apart (4mm a side) I could have moved the forks closer together to compensate for this but I already had the jigs and programs written for the standard offsets of the rgv.
I have been told the discs are the same for the sv650, bandit 600, gsxr400(GK76) and the rgv but this is only heresay and looking through replacement disc codes in catalogues.
If you want to fit a wider rim to rgv forks use the gsxr400 GK76 model as this is a common swap on the rgv to enable the use of a 120 section front tyre.
Here is my front end off the bike:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/gixerboy1/front2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/gixerboy1/front1.jpg
I'm starting to figure the easiest option to be two new yokes made to fit. I found out the RGV uses yokes of 50mm.
Sticking with the SV's 120 rim isn't neccessarily required as my front has been buckled slightly, and the 120's overkill anyway, though I'm told the RGV uses a cast iron wheel unlike the SV's alu. Actually my front tyre's recent so maybes I'll do just as you say.
Lovely piece of engineering you have there. Are those ZX636 calipers standard?
gixerboy1
19-12-04, 07:52 PM
The top diameter is 50mm diameter and the bottom one is 52mm diameter. If the distance of the forks is the same you should be able to use the rgv yokes, but you will have to check that the offset of the calipers is the same. The other thing to check is the spindle size is the same (17mm on the rgv with a 16x1.5mm thread on it) and the length of the forks.
The RGV wheel is quite heavy but I cant think of any bike that would have a cast iron wheel!
As the SV yokes are RWU, they will not be of any use with an set of USD forks they will have too small a diameter.
The calipers are standard for the ZX636 B1 model.
Oh I seen an advert where the wheel was advertised as cast iron!
It would be possible to make a lower yolk but the upper would prove much more difficult. Going off your model would it not be possible to cut the SV stanction at the top to lower yolk, feed the 50mm upper part of RGV into new yolk and then slot the SV stanction into this (perfect fit as SV's is 41mm)?
This might give less strength but wouldn't be too bad I imagine. It would be a perfect fit and still clamped top and bottom. It would also give an additional 2 inches on height which is needed for RGV's forks are shorter.
:idea: :?:
gixerboy1
19-12-04, 08:46 PM
I dont get what you mean about using the sv stanchion. On USD forks the yokes clamp on the slider (the gold part in the pics) on an SV it clamps on the stanchion (Hardened chrome part), if you use USD forks you will need to use either a set of one off yokes or if they are compatible with the sv wheel the rgv standard yokes.
Say I get a lower yolk made that accepts the 51mm gold part. The gold part goes up to the top of the upper yolk (but not through it as won't fit sv's 41mm).
I cut the SV hardened chrome part after the lower york, so it is still clamped at the top. This is fed into the gold RGV part (perfect fit at 41mm).
So the inner gold part would have part of the SV silver bit in it. Use the SV650 springs and could work? I think strength would be ok too.
Cloggsy
19-12-04, 09:00 PM
Can I ask a question :?:
Why would you want to put the forks from a much lighter 250cc bike onto an SV :?:
I'd consider a fork swap with a GSXR1000 K3/K4, but an RG250 :?
Is the RGV250 really that much lighter though :?:
I'm not sure if I'll go the RGV, Gixxer or something else right now. I'm mainly trying to work around the compatibility of yolks. The gixxer option means loosing steering lock, having to grind yolks and change bearings does it not?
Cloggsy
19-12-04, 09:10 PM
The gixxer option means loosing steering lock, having to grind yolks and change bearings does it not?
But the 'S' hasn't got that great a lock anyway :!:
Not being funny Andrew, but I think you are getting in a bit above your depth here mate.
Several things need to be taken into account when considering any great change to a bike's basic design.
Taking the forks as an example, you need to make sure length, spring and damping rates and spindle length are suitable. You need a great deal of experience and technical knowhow in order to judge what is suitable- for example if you only weigh 8 stone, then the softer sprung rgv forks may be suitable- however if your an 18 stone porker, they may just bottom out as soon as ya swing a leg over ya bike.
Regarding length, the shorter length RGV forks would be fine should you want razor sharp steering and have a steering damper (however, when a 5-10mm decrease in front ride height can make a bike unstable, I dread to think what 60 mm would do!).
It would also be very inadvisable to cut the SV stanchion and put it onto the top of the RGV slider, this would seriously reduce the lateral strength of the forks and just generally be a very poor solution to a problem that there doesnt need to be (buy longer forks). I cant also see how an alloy slider could be joined to a chromed steel stanchion, and not leak fork oil out all over the place lol.
It would be a bad idea also to use the rim from an RGV if it is smaller, a 120 front tyre isnt overkill- its there for various handling characteristics, and the rest of the geometry of the bike is set up to suit. Also there is much less rubber available as a 110 front.
If I were to do a front end swap, I would spend some serious time doing extensive research to figure what the best complete front end would be, and then get some custom yokes to suit it. After a brief look, I would possible consider beam framed gixer 750, all gixer thous, new gix six's and sevens with the radial calipers, TL1000S's and R's.
You also may run up against problems with the speedo drive.
Im sorry if this sounds like a slatey post, but I wouldnt want you to get into something that could be more extensive (and expensive) than you realise and possibly dangerous. It would also be an **** to spend a bunch of money, to have a front end that may even be worse.
Very nice bit of engineering there you have gixerboy.
I may post more as I find out more, I would love to do a swap- but at the moment money and time are too much at a premium for me to begin. Besides- I can't live with my bike off the road :oops:
No offence taken, I'm on a learning binge right now. :wink:
gixerboy1
20-12-04, 12:12 AM
You will not be able to put the sv stanchions in the rgv sliders, it is not possible, the stanchions on the rgv are a different diameter. The rgv is very light 135kg you wont get a road going 400 that weighs less let alone a 650. The forks are under sprung on the 250 so they would be extremely under sprung on a bigger bike. As Dan has said the forks are alot shorter, this will make the bike slap at the slightest bump in the road. Dropping the yokes 5mm makes a huge difference.
If I was you doing the mod I would use a complete front end from either the gsxr600 and have the stem removed from the SV yokes and put in the gsxr yokes.
One question though, why do you want to use usd forks? They are heavier than RWU forks, you will be adding to the unsprung weight.
northwind
22-12-04, 03:25 AM
Because they look magic, like everyone else :) :wink:
BaggaZee
22-12-04, 01:45 PM
Because they look magic, like everyone else :) :wink:
Tart! :lol:
Nutkins
22-12-04, 02:52 PM
Another option?
http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=16201
gixerboy1
22-12-04, 08:55 PM
[quote="northwind"]Because they look magic, like everyone else :) :wink:[/quote
So even though they will make the bike harder to turn due to having more unsprung weight you still want them? :cry:
Why not have the originals maxtoned?
21QUEST
22-12-04, 09:03 PM
[quote=northwind]Because they look magic, like everyone else :) :wink:[/quote
So even though they will make the bike harder to turn due to having more unsprung weight you still want them? :cry:
Why not have the originals maxtoned?
I think you will find you are wrong on that count gixerboy1
'Fork Types
Telescopic forks are the order of the day. They comprise two types whereby the basic ones have the stanchions (shiny chrome) at the top and the sliders (aluminium tubes) at the bottom and the upside-down ones are ... well, upside-down. There is only one reason why the latter are better than the former and that is that steel tubes can actually be lighter in the form used than the aluminium tubes, so making the bit that goes up and down with the wheel - the unsprung weight - less. Oh, and they look better on high-tech style bikes.'
http://www.american-v.co.uk/technical/handling/geometry/index.html
Cheers
Ben
gixerboy1
23-12-04, 06:22 PM
The early rgv (vj21) uses right way up forks and the M model onwards (VJ22) uses USD forks and the right way up forks are considerably lighter, many racers put them on the later bikes as they are a still a good fork and weigh alot less than the later USD forks.
The reason that everyone went to usd forks was that they were more rigid but more importantly they reduced stiction, but they are heavier, look at the diameters of the sliders compared with the sliders on the RWU forks.
The stanchions on RWU forks are sprung mass not unsprung where as on USD it is the other way around, so you have the heaviest parts as sprung mass on RWU forks and vica versa on USD which isnt good.
Flamin_Squirrel
23-12-04, 06:57 PM
Not sure I follow... are you saying that the unsprung weight on an USD fork is greater, or the whole fork is heavier?
northwind
23-12-04, 07:23 PM
RGV forks wouldn't be a great example, surely, since USD stuff was a fairly new tech at the time... I know bikes are designed a lot by fashion rather than by engineering needs, but I would've thought that the fact that the overwhelming majority of new sports bikes have USD forks would indicate it being better? Also, pretty much all aftermarket parts are USD, such as Ohlins, WP etc. There must be something going for them...
As for getting the original parts Maxtoned, people who've fitted the racetech cartridge kit, or CBR internals, have found the SV forks to lack rigidity to the point that all that lovely modification became a waste of effort- I've not been there and done that, I'm pretty happy with my Ohlins springs and the heavier oil as it is, though I'm considering emulators- so I'm not speaking from experience.
Mike1234
23-12-04, 09:23 PM
RGV forks wouldn't be a great example, surely, since USD stuff was a fairly new tech at the time... I know bikes are designed a lot by fashion rather than by engineering needs, but I would've thought that the fact that the overwhelming majority of new sports bikes have USD forks would indicate it being better? Also, pretty much all aftermarket parts are USD, such as Ohlins, WP etc. There must be something going for them...
I think you are confusing was gixerboy1 was saying. With USD forks they are certainly heavier than the Sv forks but if you think about it that heavy bit is clamped to the yokes so only the lighter stanchions move around and contribute to the unsprung weight.
The heavy bits on the SV forks are at the bottom and whilst they are lighter overall those fork lowers move around so contribute to the unsprung weight.
The essence of modern sportsbike handling is to reduce the unsprung weight as much as possible, hence the light weights wheels, etc. process.
As for getting the original parts Maxtoned, people who've fitted the racetech cartridge kit, or CBR internals, have found the SV forks to lack rigidity to the point that all that lovely modification became a waste of effort- I've not been there and done that, I'm pretty happy with my Ohlins springs and the heavier oil as it is, though I'm considering emulators- so I'm not speaking from experience.
On the contrary having cartridge inserts or even race spec. internals from an R6 (as I had on last year's race bike) make a huge difference. Sure the SV stanchions are all a bit 'boingy' but they are quite well balanced in relation to the forks, brakes, yokes, etc.
Interestingly enough some of the race guys complain that the newer bikes with their thicker stanchions actually give a little less feel that the earlier models. Go figure!
northwind
23-12-04, 09:35 PM
No, gixxerboy repeatedly said that USD's increase the unsprung weight...
As for the race rider's opinions, I didn't say that all race riders find that, but it's a very commonly held opinion on SV Rider... Check out the recent threads from Max from Traxxion on his cartridge internals for the SV- most people have rejected the idea as just being too much for the SV's forks.
gixerboy1
23-12-04, 10:03 PM
On usd forks the stanchions (which are the heaviest part of a fork) are sprung mass while on the RWU fork the stanchion is unsprung as it is above the spring, therefore there is more unsprung mass on USD forks.
The main benefits of the USD forks are less stiction which will give you more feel and the fact that they are stiffer than a conventional telescopic fork.
I didnt say that the forks are not any better than RWU forks, just that it would add to the unsprung weight.
If the forks are flexing on the standard set up, would a deeper bottom yoke reduce this to the extent that a different fork would not be required?
21QUEST
23-12-04, 10:13 PM
On usd forks the stanchions (which are the heaviest part of a fork) are sprung mass while on the RWU fork the stanchion is unsprung as it is above the spring, therefore there is more unsprung mass on USD forks.
The main benefits of the USD forks are less stiction which will give you more feel and the fact that they are stiffer than a conventional telescopic fork.
I didnt say that the forks are not any better than RWU forks, just that it would add to the unsprung weight.
If the forks are flexing on the standard set up, would a deeper bottom yoke reduce this to the extent that a different fork would not be required?
Sorry, it's the other way round. Did you check the link?
Cheers
Ben
This could end up going round in circles.......
Mike1234
23-12-04, 10:24 PM
No, gixxerboy repeatedly said that USD's increase the unsprung weight...
You are right, but to a certain extent :D
He starts of the sentence saying one thing and finishes it off saying the opposite! The heaviest parts of RWU forks are unsprung mass and the heaviest parts of USD forks are sprung mass.
As for the race rider's opinions, I didn't say that all race riders find that, but it's a very commonly held opinion on SV Rider... Check out the recent threads from Max from Traxxion on his cartridge internals for the SV- most people have rejected the idea as just being too much for the SV's forks.
A very interesting thread (see http://www.svrider.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=32545&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=cartridge&start=0 if you fancy a bit of reading). I would disagree with your suppositions on what was said and would point out that pretty much everybody who has commented has dissed the idea without actually trying it.
What most people were actually saying was that they were disappointed that these new cartridge inserts weren't going to make the forks perform better than a well set up GSXR fork. Nobody is disputing that but I think you are putting words in to their mouths by suggesting that people couldn't see the benefit of it. Not forgetting the cost of setting up a set of GSXR forks for both the new bike, the rider and the intended use.
I also dispute your previous statements about "As for getting the original parts Maxtoned, people who've fitted the racetech cartridge kit, or CBR internals, have found the SV forks to lack rigidity to the point that all that lovely modification became a waste of effort" as I couldn't see that either. More importantly, I haven't experienced that nor have many of the people I race with.
I would however point out that the drop in kits from Traxxion are nowhere near as high a specification as the R6 cartridge kits that were developed and installed by Performance Techniques in Letchworth. Sure the forks are never going to perform as well as those on an R6 or a GSXR but they are probably more than capable enough for anything most of us would need them for (and that includes winning races).
It is also worth pointing out that the set up from Performance Techniques did retain the standard external preload adjustment and also provided rebound adjustment via a screw just beneath the fork cap, i.e. it would take 60 seconds to change rather than 20 seconds if it was external.
You might be interested to know that Harris Performance (UK Ohlins Distributor) are sponsoring a MiniTwins rider in 2005. His K4 forks have already been sent to Ohlins HQ to see what they can do with them.
Mike1234
23-12-04, 10:28 PM
On usd forks the stanchions (which are the heaviest part of a fork) are sprung mass while on the RWU fork the stanchion is unsprung as it is above the spring, therefore there is more unsprung mass on USD forks.
The main benefits of the USD forks are less stiction which will give you more feel and the fact that they are stiffer than a conventional telescopic fork.
I didnt say that the forks are not any better than RWU forks, just that it would add to the unsprung weight.
If the forks are flexing on the standard set up, would a deeper bottom yoke reduce this to the extent that a different fork would not be required?
Don't worry about which bits are above or below the spring. Just think about which bits move and which bits don't.
gixerboy1
23-12-04, 10:51 PM
I thought that sprung and unsprung had to do with were the items were in relation to the suspension. If it is above the spring it is sprung and below it unsprung. Some parts like the swinging arm are semi sprung in that it has parts that are both sides of the suspension.
Mike1234
23-12-04, 11:35 PM
I thought that sprung and unsprung had to do with were the items were in relation to the suspension. If it is above the spring it is sprung and below it unsprung. Some parts like the swinging arm are semi sprung in that it has parts that are both sides of the suspension.
Pretty much but if you think about the unsprung weight on a bike like the SV650 where the stanchions are held by the yokes then the heavy fork lowers contribute to the unsprung weight as they are the bits bouncing around trying to absorb the changes in road surface.
In a GSXR with upside down forks it is only the stanchions that have to move as the heavier elements are held in the yokes and are therefore sprung weight. The unsprung weight is the stanchions plus all the bits like the wheel, callipers, discs, etc.
In this instance the unsprung weight on the GSXR fork leg is just the hollow tubes (plus the very ends that actually support the axles, etc.). On the SV it is the complete fork lowers. It's not as crucial for the thinner Sv forks but on some of the larger bikes you are talking about a much larger weight.
northwind
24-12-04, 12:21 AM
Yep, you've got me there Mike now I reread it. There were various other threads about the time that were along the same lines, but reading it again I'd blown some comments out of proportion and overlooked a lot of others.
I'll be dead interested to see what Ohlins can come up with, but to be totally honest, I think most people who've put USD forks on a road SV would agree with me that it's mainly for the bling. Different internals might do the job very well but they're not visible :)
I'm also dead interested to hear what Performance Techniques setups are- I've just dropped them an email out of curiosity but I assume you have some personal knowledge of them?
The only thing I'd contradict you on is that you say in your post that the Racetech drop-in kit is inferior to Performance Techniques- I think you're confising the new cartridge ones, which I was referring to, with their old emulator and damper rod kits? Since at the moment you can't buy the new Racetech ones :)
Sid Squid
24-12-04, 01:00 AM
The argument re: Are RWU or USD forks lighter at the unsprung (US) is an interesting but somewhat non specific question, USD forks have the potential to be be lighter US, assuming appropriate design and materials, but it isn't always so, yes, the heaviest part is the steel stanchion, but it's often shorter and therefore lighter in a USD fork, the real reason for going USD is stiffness, the outer tubes are of a greater diameter and therefore stiffer, made of aluminium they needn't be overall heavier so this may be of benefit, generally speaking USD forks are not US lighter, at least not any you're likely to fit to an SV, lighter ones cost big money and get themselves fitted to expensive race bikes.
GSXR1100 USD forks are the longest I know of, and with suitable yokes are usually the easiest to fit into the space vacated by RWU, without buggering up the geometry completely.
Mike1234
24-12-04, 11:24 AM
I'll be dead interested to see what Ohlins can come up with, but to be totally honest, I think most people who've put USD forks on a road SV would agree with me that it's mainly for the bling. Different internals might do the job very well but they're not visible :)
Absolutely! There is a picture on one of the svrider.com forums of a yellow K4 with a GSXR front end that looks awesome.
I'm also dead interested to hear what Performance Techniques setups are- I've just dropped them an email out of curiosity but I assume you have some personal knowledge of them?
Yeah I've known the guys that run it for a while and have raced with them also.
The only thing I'd contradict you on is that you say in your post that the Racetech drop-in kit is inferior to Performance Techniques- I think you're confising the new cartridge ones, which I was referring to, with their old emulator and damper rod kits? Since at the moment you can't buy the new Racetech ones :)
Nope. The spec. that Traxion were discussing for their cartridge kit is.will be inferior to the kit that Performance Techniques developed. The US kit would also work out cheaper. Both issues are a factor of trying to make it a 'drop in' kit rather than a bespoke conversion.
gixerboy1
24-12-04, 12:41 PM
In my opinion (and it is just that as I havent weighed everything) The lowers on the sv will weigh alot less than the aluminium fork bottoms and the stanchions on a set of usd forks, its quite a chunk of material on the bottom of usd forks and as Suzuki use a generic casting on the forks it is also oversized on bikes like the rgv which use smaller diameter stanchions, which is why I have designed and will be making a new fork bottom to take the radial calipers on the rgv forks, I am hoping to only have to use one disc and caliper, which will definatley reduce unsprung weight :wink:
northwind
24-12-04, 04:44 PM
Out of curiousity Mike, what sort of price range are Performance's jobs in?
Can someone with the know-how tell me if these will fit...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10534&item=7942875529&rd=1
You can get forks extended so the length wouldn't be a worry but them coming from a lighter bike is, after new year when I can walk better I might lift the front end from my old Gixer4 track bike which imho is a better match to the SV650 then a 600, 750, 1000 or 1100 front end.
But on the subject of USD forks increasing unsprung weight they do but the effect is minimal what affects a bike more is the rotational force of the wheel and all that is fixed to it, so say kilogram extra overall on the forks is negligable if it does what you want be it for function or looks.
Can someone with the know-how tell me if these will fit...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10534&item=7942875529&rd=1
Those will fit, but lock stops, steering lock and steering stem may need some modification. The best length anyway.
Would it be worth £250? I'm negotiating now. I'd rather have the gold forks though.
It's worth what he's asking. These GSXR1100 front ends are popular with the bandit 12 blokes due to the length.
If you get it for £300- I'd be amazed.
Is the front of a 97 GSXR 750 any good?
petetong
05-01-05, 03:55 AM
Andrew, you seem pretty desperate to find the forks.. I'd chill and get a shock first as you have had the front end resprung already.
I had gixer1000 forks on my SV and it rocked, I'd honestly steer clear of the older stuff as its prob more hard work than its worth and where is the 'bling bling' in a set of duffed up old '97 forks! get the shock, wait for the right moment and pounce on a decent newish gixer front end when it comes up, you need GOLD forks and radial brakes for the best look now and the most cred!
you'll need to get the following done if you get a 2000/2001 gixer1000 f/e.
you need the whole thing, wheel, disks, brakes (if they are 6pots or radial you need BIGGER master cylinder, and I mean it, when they get hot the stop working with a stock SV part!) you need to get an SV stem pressed into the lower tripple, you need a spacer to make the top tripple fit on the stem and the bearing correctly, you need it re-sprung/re-valved to make work right, you loose your steering lock/stop (can be fixed see Chris Bakers stuff, the MV/SV) the ignition barrel will bit into the 2000/2001 gixer head stock, you can drill the front of the frame to match the new steering lock possition. You will loose your speedo, you need to move it to the back wheel which is another mission in itself. you will then need a steering damper as the forks are real stiff and slappers are prone.
I had it done but was fortuante to pick up the bits ready, its great, no-one will beat you on the road or the track around the bends.. but thats only if you take your time and learn how to set it up. oh yeah, DO THE SHOCK first or you've wasted a lot of money...
just my 1c worth....
Ped
Ta mate. GSXR shock arrives next week. :)
coombest
05-01-05, 10:26 AM
Pete's SV was fast 8)
But I still outbraked him into the bus-stop chicane at Llandow!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh yeah - he went straight on & I dropped it!!! :oops:
northwind
05-01-05, 06:30 PM
Ignition lock's supposed to be easier to fit with SRAD triples... Also, if you want to keep the SV wheel, R1 forks, 99-01 will fit on the SV wheel and brake discs, and can retain the speedo, but you need a custom axle. If I ever go down the USD route- might do some day, you never know, probably will if I ever break the SV's own front- I think I'd go the R1 route. Forks aren't as good as the Gixxer Showas, but do you think I'll notice the difference? :)
I was just quoted £900 exc. vat for a GSXR1100 front end (gold). :shock:
Don't forget the R1 needs a custom top yolk made. That'll be expensive.
How can somebody who uses the cheapest oil afford £900- for a USD front end?
petetong
05-01-05, 11:24 PM
But I still outbraked him into the bus-stop chicane at Llandow!!
Yes but Tim, I had the back wheel off the grond and locked up the front from god knows how fast! oh yeah, and you crashed after that corner! :lol: :lol: :P
Andrew, also don't forget that when you have finished mincing about with your shock and forks you will then need to get a decent set of rear sets (pegs) as the stock SV ones will have you sliding your pride and joy up the tarmac (just like Tim!) oh yeah, don't go for the riser plates either, you'll be glad of fixed pegs when you do chuck it down the road and the SV soft as sh*te hangers snap a lil too easy.
your going to need to get that gixer shock re-sprung and re-valved for the bike and your weight too.. goto K-Tech and not Racetech they are better in imho.
Pete
petetong
05-01-05, 11:28 PM
Trip down memory lane.....
isn't that you Tim with me up your ****???
http://www.1stwavephotos.net/images/bikes/CRW_3349.jpg
I still have not got that toe slider off! the screws are all metled and won't budge..
http://www.1stwavephotos.net/images/bikes/CRW_3341.jpg
now boys and girls, the next step for you guys..
http://www.1stwavephotos.net/images/bikes/CRW_3614.jpg
I do miss the SV tho..
Trip down memory lane.....
isn't that you Tim with me up your ****???
http://www.1stwavephotos.net/images/bikes/CRW_3349.jpg
I still have not got that toe slider off! the screws are all metled and won't budge..
http://www.1stwavephotos.net/images/bikes/CRW_3341.jpg
now boys and girls, the next step for you guys..
http://www.1stwavephotos.net/images/bikes/CRW_3614.jpg
I do miss the SV tho..
I think Tim liked you being "up his ****" so much that he dropped the bike in excitement :lol:
I was just quoted £900 exc. vat for a GSXR1100 front end (gold). :shock:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10534&item=7945165591&rd=1
northwind
06-01-05, 12:18 AM
I've tried to post this about 3 times but my PC keeps on breaking down, so I'll break it up a little.
1) Unless you thrash your bike you musty be half mad to want to swap your forks, UNLESS it's for pure bling. There's cheaper and easier ways to get great front end performance- Traxxion just launched a fully adjustable drop-in cartridge (not emulator but true cartridge) kit for the older SV, $999US- £600 plus duties, which will not be small. They were talking about a cheaper version without external adjustment, but I've not seen a price. SV stock brakes can be made damn good with lines, HH pads, and if you're still not happy the Brembo master cylinder from off a Duke.
northwind
06-01-05, 12:20 AM
2) It's not the case that you'll definately need to revalve/rebuild either a front end or a rear shock. Most people fitting 636 or GSXR SRAD shocks ride them as stock. For best results or if you're, ahem, larger, it becomes a very good idea but don't assume that it has to be done. On the other hand, don't asume you won't want it- if I do go for one of the front end swaps, I'm going to budget for a ktech rebuild (plus I'd want titanium nitrided stanchions, as I am not merely a tart, I'm THE tart.
TiN front stanchions?
Yeah you are THE tart. :lol:
What about wave discs?
northwind
06-01-05, 12:31 AM
3) Specific to R1 forks. Usual "I've not done it meself" disclaimer applies.
R1 forks fit into GSXR SRAD triples/yokes. This may need a little machining, or may not, there's a little disagreement on the subject. Most say not. This should also mean that they fit into more recent GSXR triples for USD forks- at least, Zoran (TWF) reckons so and he knows more about SVs than I don't know. But SRAD yokes are considered best for compatability.
R1 yokes fit but incredibly badly- steering lock locks pointing straight forward and the clip-ons hit the tank, so Just Say No. Plus they look awful. R1 clipons are too short for SV controls.
So... You need R1 99-01 forks, brakes, GSXR triples (SRAD for preference) and clip-ons. You can reuse SV controls, they're mostly the same as SRAD controls anyway. You may need new brake lines, but I think not- you will almost certainly need Yam spec bolts though. And mudguard :)
For either version you need an R1 axle, if you want to keep the SV wheel then you'll need a sacrificial SV axle too.
If you want the SV wheel, you need a custom built axle and spacer set. You'll need to space the SV discs to fit the R1 calipers. Speedo drive goes on the front as usual.
If you want the R1 wheel, you'll need to put the speedo on the rear, and you'll need an R1 front wheel. They're a very good linkeness for SV wheels though so after powdercoating they'll match up very well. R1 tyre is a different fitment to the SV- 120/70 17 IIRC.
BUT... Rear speedo is a great trick but of the 10 or so SVRiders I've seen use it since it was posted there, 3 have had it fail inside a thousand miles. Whether it's fitting error or problems with the basic idea, I don't know.
And it makes sense ot budget for reworking the front end to suit the SV and you.
Phew... I'm considering it, maybe. If I should knacker the front end I'll certainly give it a crack. But as with half the stuff I do I consider it a mod for its own sake, and I seriously doubt it's worth doing when compared to the more simple alternatives. Plus you will need to be pretty handy to make it work, or have deep pockets. With good advice I'm sure I could do it, or most of- probably need pros to fit the bearing and to machine the yokes if they need it.
I think you should go back and consider this seriously..... :lol:
I've just give up. Clearly spending £750+ on the front end alone is madness. Might as well get a different bike. I'll sort the rear out and leave it at that.
northwind
06-01-05, 12:59 AM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10534&item=7945165591&rd=1
Are those not the ones that have the warranty issue for the stanchion coating?
TiN front stanchions?
Yeah, I know. But it is cool looking, you know :) If you've got USD front forks you don't need waveys, you're already very cool. I'd maybe stick one on the rear, since they're cheaper and my rear is going to be up for replacement sooner anyway.
I think you should go back and consider this seriously.....
This is me considering it seriously... Just like the cams & the exhaust, I look at the options months before I move and even start getting the parts, and I get everyone's opinion first. Even yours, u H8er looser!
Plus, and here's the moment of triumphalism- after the respray, my bike will Kick Ass. It's well kept, it'll look great, sound great make hopefully 75-80bhp at the rear, and generally be a very, very cool example of an SV. it's so cool that I'm almost certainly going to go back to one can instead of two, without worrying that the bike will become uncool.
So why not keep on taking it further? I've got the free cash for it if I budget carefully (I paid for what I've done so far by more or less stopping drinking...) I've got the time to do it, and I love doing the work as much as I love having a kick-ass bike.
There's only a few things left to do... Full bodywork, swingarm replacement, 700cc boreout, front end swap, or wheels. Wheels are uneconomic or pointless IMHO (not putting a fat rear on, and aftermarket wheels are just too expensive, plus it's not very involving is it?),
Bodywork... Well, I'll be track-daying the bike as much as possible next year and since it'll do probably 10-15K next year and sit in the street all day, plus do all season work, it'll take chips and there's a good chance of it being binned, so bodywork is a gamble. With Suzuki bits I can easily replace one or two panels and respray, but with the 2WJ fairing, I don't know if individual parts can be had, and the bits are bigger and harder to find, plus more expensive. A big gamble, basically.
700cc? depends on the power I get next time its on the dyno. It's on the cards, but probably I do too many miles for it to be a good option, so Busa pistons and shaved gaskets might be all I do there. I'm keeping it under the Dreaded 85bhp at the rear anyway.
Swingarm? I'd love a single sider, but there's no way I could do it myself, and that takes the fun out of it for me. I might do a faux braced one off of my spare SV swingarm though.
So that just leaves the front end, and that's an interesting and still fairly unusual project, a challenge, is pretty functional and looks brilliant. It basically meets my criteria for worthwhile mods.
northwind
06-01-05, 01:08 AM
I've just give up. Clearly spending £750+ on the front end alone is madness. Might as well get a different bike. I'll sort the rear out and leave it at that.
I'm off to bed, but a question: Why do you want them? I think, from reading your past posts, that you're not likely desperate for a handling improvement, for the riding you do... I know why I want them, and it's not really something that you can put a price on for me.
bling bling is all. Bed 4 me too. Night all.
northwind
06-01-05, 06:14 PM
A bike with straight wheels has more bling :)
I think I need a car :arrow: .
coombest
08-01-05, 12:14 PM
But I still outbraked him into the bus-stop chicane at Llandow!!
Yes but Tim, I had the back wheel off the grond and locked up the front from god knows how fast! oh yeah, and you crashed after that corner! :lol: :lol: :P
Andrew, also don't forget that when you have finished mincing about with your shock and forks you will then need to get a decent set of rear sets (pegs) as the stock SV ones will have you sliding your pride and joy up the tarmac (just like Tim!) oh yeah, don't go for the riser plates either, you'll be glad of fixed pegs when you do chuck it down the road and the SV soft as sh*te hangers snap a lil too easy.
I know!! I was simply taking the **** for ****-taking's sake!! :lol: :lol: :oops: :oops:
That SV was lovely & it was quite incredible how it just stuck to the road and didn't dive visibly under braking!
I wish my SV wasn't written off now! I would love to have taken it on track again, now that it had been tuned further and had Gilles rearsets on (lost all confidence to lean that far with the 'orrible, low OEM jobbbies!)... Was going to do the front forks soon, too! :cry:
Very nice pics though!!
If I'm ever in your vicinity, I'll have to look you up & have a play on that 'orrible 'onda of yours!!!!! :wink: :lol: :lol: :roll:
ok another quick thought:
What is the consequence on your insurance premium if you fit usd's?
21QUEST
20-01-05, 12:46 AM
Just renewed my insurance and asked my Broker to confirm what the situation was with the new underwritter and they were more concerned about endcans being road legal/% power increase than the different front end :roll: . No extra charge.
Best is to ask and see what their take is on it.
Cheers
Ben
I may ask my insurance company, if it wont make too much/no difference it would make me even more tempted. Plus the fact I have a contact who can mill and turn things to order- and is very good with hybrid type things.
His Gixer 7/11 is a work of art and drips with parts he has custom made.
Hmmmm tempted yuuum. Would have to be the full front end though i'm thinking, as I would want the subsequent upgrade in brakes etc. Swaying possibly more to the Yammy front end, as then you dont get dreaded suzuki front brakes. Gixers have a bad rep for the tokico calipers seizing up and the disks warping, although a good service and wavey's would fix that. But for now the shock beckons as thats giving me the hardest time at the minute.
Dan.
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