View Full Version : clutchless downshifts ?????
pegasus
26-01-05, 07:09 AM
bit of advice please.
do any of you nice folks shift down without the clutch? i've done it a few times purposely to see how it is..the gearbox sounds ok and the bike shifts fine but im wondering :-
1. how much damage am i causing
2. should i be doing it in the 1st place
any advice appreciated thanx.
Flamin_Squirrel
26-01-05, 07:33 AM
I can do it, but I don't. Blipping the throttle is faster.
As long as you're not forcing the lever, I understand it won't do any damage at all.
I imagine it would shorten the useful life of the tranny and associated parts. Is it really that time consuming to 2 finger the clutch ?
pegasus
26-01-05, 08:20 AM
I imagine it would shorten the useful life of the tranny and associated parts. Is it really that time consuming to 2 finger the clutch ?
not at all ...im a blipper as well..but i was just curious
thanx for the reply
just a quicky in regardes to downshifting why can you go down as many gears as you like in one go but you cant skip gears going up. ie from 2nd to 4th with out it sounding like the gears are going to explode ive only done it once and it really didnt seem to like it so ive never done it again.
pegasus
26-01-05, 08:55 AM
just a quicky in regardes to downshifting why can you go down as many gears as you like in one go but you cant skip gears going up. ie from 2nd to 4th with out it sounding like the gears are going to explode ive only done it once and it really didnt seem to like it so ive never done it again.
im guessing ...its something to do with the sequential run off the gears.
i.e it might seem as if your going from 4th to 2nd but the box is actually going 4.3.2 running through the gears sequentially. going upwards is a different matter each gear has to be selected and running before the next gear can be selected..
i think
wyrdness
26-01-05, 09:29 AM
I've read that clutchless downshifting really isn't recomended. I'm not sure why you'd want to do it either. Clutchless upshifting is great for accelerating hard, but if you're going down the gears you should do it properly.
I've never had a problem skipping a gear on the way up (e.g 2nd to 4th). I'll do that if it's a lowish speed limit and I want to accelerate quickly up to the limit and then cruise at 40mph (or whatever).
Ceri JC
26-01-05, 09:50 AM
I'm not sure why you'd want to do it either.
Agreed- I understand (and occassionally do) clutchless upshift. I can't see the point of clutchless downshifting. Surely even if you blipped the throttle, you'd have to be very precise with the amount of throttle, to avoid sudden engine braking.
I can certainly downshift without the clutch and still blip the throttle, you've just got to be ultra-precise. Is there any point to it? Not really 'though it's handy when I'm on the mobile... :wink:
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pegasus
26-01-05, 12:23 PM
I can certainly downshift without the clutch and still blip the throttle, you've just got to be ultra-precise. Is there any point to it? Not really 'though it's handy when I'm on the mobile... :wink:
.
talking or texting? :lol:
I can certainly downshift without the clutch and still blip the throttle, you've just got to be ultra-precise. Is there any point to it? Not really 'though it's handy when I'm on the mobile... :wink:
.
Just going off at a complete tangent, I once got called on the mobile while I was in the car driving home and was asked if I was on the bike or not :shock:
pegasus
26-01-05, 02:14 PM
I can certainly downshift without the clutch and still blip the throttle, you've just got to be ultra-precise. Is there any point to it? Not really 'though it's handy when I'm on the mobile... :wink:
.
Just going off at a complete tangent, I once got called on the mobile while I was in the car driving home and was asked if I was on the bike or not :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Think my zx6r manual says not to down shift without clutch as it will cause mechanical problems with the transmission....will check it tonight
Going the opposite way - clutchless upshifts. I tried this a few weeks ago and it wouldn't change, the lever just felt solid. Do you have to be really caning it to do?
revs tend to have to be quite high for smoothness, on my anyways
wyrdness
26-01-05, 03:28 PM
Going the opposite way - clutchless upshifts. I tried this a few weeks ago and it wouldn't change, the lever just felt solid. Do you have to be really caning it to do?
Clutchless upshifting is usually only an advantage if you are caning it and want to change up that bit quicker. I usually ease of the throttle, kick the lever and back on the throttle again, all as quickly as possible.
Hmm, ok, maybe i need a little more commitment to the cause!
And yeah i realise where the advantages lie, i just thought i would try it a bit lower down the rev range to start off with as i don't know what would happen etc. As it happened all that occurred was some fairly hard engine braking!
I only clutchless downshift when I'm riding with a broken clutch cable.
Hasn't happened yet on the SV.Touches wood!!
Hmm, ok, maybe i need a little more commitment to the cause!
Actually, you might need less committment, if you get my drift......
If you're accelerating hard then you might need to easy off the gas a bit to take the "strain" out the transmission and match the revs to the next higher gear.
Try putting pressure on the pedal and then easing off the gas a tad - should snick in nicely, then back on the gas.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, one needs to do both and it's a matter of timing.
I was shutting off the gas completely before trying to shift gear which may be where i was going wrong. May try it on the way home as the weather and roads seem ok even though its a little cold.
Incidentally i was behind a Hornet with twin akraprovic pipes this morning, sounded lovely :wink:
Cheers
I admittedly do 70% of my upshifts without the clutch. The gearbox certainly doesn't take kindly to clutchless shifts at low revs (contrary to what I would have thought). If you're accelerating fast this is the perfect time to do it as it snicks up to the next gear as though it's been coated with KY (whatever that is :oops: ).
One of the reasons I do clutchless shifts is because I'm lazy - on the SV it's just so easy.
.
Incidentally i was behind a Hornet with twin akraprovic pipes this morning, sounded lovely :wink:
Possibly a 900cc Hornet - twin high-level pipes as standard :wink:
I suspect that jonboy is right - clutchless upshifting is easier are high-ish revs and in the higher gears.
Flamin_Squirrel
26-01-05, 05:57 PM
I was shutting off the gas completely before trying to shift gear which may be where i was going wrong. May try it on the way home as the weather and roads seem ok even though its a little cold.
Incidentally i was behind a Hornet with twin akraprovic pipes this morning, sounded lovely :wink:
Cheers
Yeah you only need to back off the throttle the slightest bit to change up.
i dont know if im going to get jumped on for saying this buttttt.....
Whats the point in not using the clutch, apart from going from netrual to first to pull off, if you didnt need it for up and down shifting then what the hell is it there for other than to use for changeing gear????
If your not using it because your caning the bike then perhapes you should do more track days and less street racing.
I know that if you dont use the clutch in a car it sha=gs the selectour and the stick goes all baggy.
Im not moaning at anyone person here its just an observasion. For the point in saving a second or two why not just use the clutch?
How the hell do you spell observasion? or is this right?
How the hell do you spell observasion?
With a "t" instead of the "s" :thumbsup:
And no, keithd, I don't mean "obtervasion" :wink:
i dont know if im going to get jumped on for saying this buttttt.....
Whats the point in not using the clutch, apart from going from netrual to first to pull off, if you didnt need it for up and down shifting then what the hell is it there for other than to use for changeing gear????
If your not using it because your caning the bike then perhapes you should do more track days and less street racing.
I know that if you dont use the clutch in a car it sha=gs the selectour and the stick goes all baggy.
Im not moaning at anyone person here its just an observasion. For the point in saving a second or two why not just use the clutch?
How the hell do you spell observasion? or is this right?
It's a good point, why? Well for a start it's an easier process, removing the middle man, secondly it's smoother, thirdly you can make slightly faster progress if you're hammering it (or so I'm told :lol: ).
For me it's become a natural thing to do. I don't recommend people either do or they don't, it's just a question of personal preference really.
.
I know that if you dont use the clutch in a car it sha=gs the selectour and the stick goes all baggy.
not if its done right.The same applies in a car - match the revs and the gearbox will snick right in. Cars have syncromesh and you have to go via neutral which should make this even easier, and the benefits can be even greater if done right. Downshifting like this is very difficult though, as hitting the throttle and the brake at the same time is a wee bit tricky.
pegasus
27-01-05, 04:11 PM
I know that if you dont use the clutch in a car it sha=gs the selectour and the stick goes all baggy.
not if its done right.The same applies in a car - match the revs and the gearbox will snick right in. Cars have syncromesh and you have to go via neutral which should make this even easier, and the benefits can be even greater if done right. Downshifting like this is very difficult though, as hitting the throttle and the brake at the same time is a wee bit tricky.
i had to do this once when my clutch cable snapped on my way to work...was quite surprised at some of the smooth shifts...admittedly some dreadful ones as well
I know that if you dont use the clutch in a car it sha=gs the selectour and the stick goes all baggy.
not if its done right.The same applies in a car - match the revs and the gearbox will snick right in. Cars have syncromesh and you have to go via neutral which should make this even easier, and the benefits can be even greater if done right. Downshifting like this is very difficult though, as hitting the throttle and the brake at the same time is a wee bit tricky.
syncromesh that cages have and constantmesh that motocycles have are 2 different things
in a bike, you do not have to match revs to shift clutchless, all you have to do is "unload" the pressure on the gears
syncromesh that cages have and constantmesh that motocycles have are 2 different things
in a bike, you do not have to match revs to shift clutchless, all you have to do is "unload" the pressure on the gears
you don't have to match revs in either circumstance... however i would advise anyone attempting this to at least try :shock:
How the hell do you spell observasion?
With a "t" instead of the "s" :thumbsup:
And no, keithd, I don't mean "obtervasion" :wink:
ahhh thanks your "observation skills" are better than mine. :lol:
leatherpatches
28-01-05, 07:57 PM
Mmmm... slipper clutch.... down 3 gears at once....
Sorry - dreaming!
Jelster
29-01-05, 08:46 AM
I admittedly do 70% of my upshifts without the clutch. The gearbox certainly doesn't take kindly to clutchless shifts at low revs (contrary to what I would have thought). If you're accelerating fast this is the perfect time to do it as it snicks up to the next gear as though it's been coated with KY (whatever that is :oops: ).
One of the reasons I do clutchless shifts is because I'm lazy - on the SV it's just so easy.
This is the only way to ride my GSXR, even when I'm not giving it any stick it still "flows" better by not using the clutch, although at low speeds I may often just give a quick squeeze on the clutch lever. When I had my SV I found the best way to change up was to keep the gas on and quickly use the clutch, but that may just have been my bike.
I can go down the box without using the clutch fairly easily, and with an IL4, you often have to drop a gear to go, and I find it fairly easy without the clutch, just ease off, kick it down 1, hit the gas (keeping the front down of course :lol: ) and then flick through the gears without the use of my left hand. Cluchless up shifts become a habbit after a while.
.
briclark1
03-02-05, 02:40 AM
I have downshifted without a clutch several times but done intentially. With my boots on, when I am getting ready to downshift, sometimes it slides into gear without really trying. Most times I have to TRY and downshift. When it slips into gear it always catches me by surprise. If I have just started to roll off the throttle then it is not abrupt and there is no issue. If I have rolled almost all the way off then there is a jerk. I can not imagine purposely downshifting without a clutch. If I could manage 9 smooth shifts out of 10, that tenth shift would far out way the other nine.
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