View Full Version : STOP!
So...there i was filtering down "lambeth hill" (thats what the police station said it was as i passed it).
Filtering...25mph or so down hill...me on the outside, solid traffic on the inside, 5 bikes/scooters behind me. Filtering happily....Traffic lights/crossing green for me...
Approaching lights...nothing...nothing...woman with push chair in the middle of the road...brake brake brake emergency stop...about 3ft away from them (just on the crossing line as it happens, 10/10 for style ;) )
I couldn't believe how reckless someone would be with there child!
It's lucky it wasn't raining/i could stopotherwise i would of had to of thrown the bike down the other side of the road to avoid her (and would of been my fault as well, pedestrians dont require insurance...yet)
Im just shocked...so erm keep your eyes open guys.
Dan :shock:
Natural Selection. Darwin Rules. Stupid people have stupid kids....
I'll get me coat... :lol:
Just coz the lights are green on a ped crossing doesn't mean that you have right of way :shock:
Those on the crossing have right of way regardless of the colour of the lights :shock:
Yeah, I know it's daft, but that's the way it is and it would have been your fault. You did well to stop.
Observation is what its all about. You dont just look at the road ahead, look around, look for peoples feet under cars, people walking along the pavement. Everyone is potential target.
You do learn this knid of thing on IAM type stuff which is good and handy, but some of the other stuff they teach you is strange :?
Itching 2 go
08-02-05, 10:35 AM
Natural Selection. Darwin Rules. Stupid people have stupid kids....
I'll get me coat... :lol:is that y you ride with one arm in the air?
Balky001
08-02-05, 10:37 AM
Jabba, your comments remind me of a sketch from Britta's Empire. He used to walk across crossings without looking knowing that if he got run over and died at least he was in the right. Rights and responsibilities - some people only think they have to do the first. If you have a child you'd think legal techicalities wouldn't be that important.
Sudoxe, well done on stopping! I'm sure millions of people will say this but its always worth slowing down at crossings and junctions whatever the conditions/rights of way
coombest
08-02-05, 10:37 AM
Observation is what its all about. You dont just look at the road ahead, look around, look for peoples feet under cars, people walking along the pavement. Everyone is potential target.
You do learn this knid of thing on IAM type stuff which is good and handy, but some of the other stuff they teach you is strange :?
God - If that's the case, I doubt you need to worry too much about hitting them!! :lol: :lol:
And - Pedestrians are nutters - good job stopping Dan :thumbsup: but I reckonperhaps 'natural selection' should have been allowed to run it's course! :twisted: :lol:
Sudoxe, well done on stopping! I'm sure millions of people will say this but its always worth slowing down at crossings and junctions whatever the conditions/rights of way
Yep, i was slowing down doing obvs when she decided to walk out, so slamed on the brakes...
Dan
Just coz the lights are green on a ped crossing doesn't mean that you have right of way :shock:
Those on the crossing have right of way regardless of the colour of the lights :shock:
Yeah, I know it's daft, but that's the way it is and it would have been your fault. You did well to stop.
I'd be interested where you believe the authority for this statement resides.
If the crossing was a traffic light controlled (pelican) crossing then the car/bike has right of way as long as the light is green.
If the crossing was a Zebra crossing then the pedestrian has right of way once their foot is on the crossing.
Ceri JC
08-02-05, 10:45 AM
Yes, sadly a lot of people seem to think a pram is a "right of way" tool. I think they know a lot of drivers will keep going and make them stop in the middle of the road/cross more quickly, but if they have a child with them/pram they'll throw on the anchors.
If the crossing was a traffic light controlled (pelican) crossing then the car/bike has right of way as long as the light is green.
It was a traffic light crossing.
Dan
To be fair to the kid - it probably didn't ask to be used to stop the traffic...
I don't think darwin rules can be applied here. The parent is doing the natural selection, the kid has no choice...
Stu
I'd be interested where you believe the authority for this statement resides.
If the crossing was a traffic light controlled (pelican) crossing then the car/bike has right of way as long as the light is green.
If the crossing was a Zebra crossing then the pedestrian has right of way once their foot is on the crossing.
Have to agree with Patch on this one. However in the eyes of the law, you'd still could be looking at a Due Care and Attention rap if you DID knock someone over on a light controlled crossing, as its more likely for people to cross there if the traffic is stationary.
Flamin_Squirrel
08-02-05, 11:01 AM
Natural Selection. Darwin Rules. Stupid people have stupid kids....
I'll get me coat... :lol:
I read somewhere that its a government conspiracy. Allow the stupid people to live, so they can harness the rotational power of Darwins grave to power the world.
I'm not a cruel man, I agree with all above so I guess I should correct my above statement, if you can't avoid both pram and mum aim for the mum as the kid is currently an innocent. (Though it'll probably grow up to be as stupid as it's parents)! :roll:
Seriosly though well done on stopping! :thumbsup:
itchingtogo:
I was using my hand to signal the camera man not to run into the road :lol:
I'd be interested where you believe the authority for this statement resides.
If the crossing was a traffic light controlled (pelican) crossing then the car/bike has right of way as long as the light is green.
If the crossing was a Zebra crossing then the pedestrian has right of way once their foot is on the crossing.
Have to agree with Patch on this one. However in the eyes of the law, you'd still could be looking at a Due Care and Attention rap if you DID knock someone over on a light controlled crossing, as its more likely for people to cross there if the traffic is stationary.
I've always understood the situation to be that, for a light-controlled crossing (with black/white stripes as per a Zebra crossing) then you MUST stop for the red light and if there's a green light you treat it as a normal (lightless) Zebra crossing. The red light is there for the safety of pedestrians rather to apportion some sort of contradictory right of way when compared to a Zebra crossing.
The reason for this that pedestrians have no licence, no insurance and do not need permission to be on the road. That pedestrian could be a child with no idea of rights of way, etc. Suppose the person trying to cross is both deaf and blind, or is mentally unable to assess the situation properly?
As AlanSv says, if you knock a pedestrian over on a black/white crossing (of any sort) you will be prosecuted. This implies that you didn't have right of way in the eyes of the law.
*goes to get Highway Code and copy of RTA*
I believe it states that when a light is green you may go only if it is safe to do so. Obviously it's not safe if soemone's crossing, but I think if someone darted out at full pelt on your green phase when the traffic was moving you'd be unlikley to be prosecuted.
As for arguments about people who are mentally incapable of crossing the road the answer is simple. They should not be unsupervised in a situation where they could come to harm. Deaf and blind people are usually very careful at crossing a road anyways.
I believe it states that when a light is green you may go only if it is safe to do so. Obviously it's not safe if soemone's crossing, but I think if someone darted out at full pelt on your green phase when the traffic was moving you'd be unlikley to be prosecuted.
Let's hope that you've got witnesses in your favour :wink:
Actually, it would seem, from a brief search, that I am mistaken as to the question of priority; if the lights are green you don't have to stop. Having said that, there's nothing to stop a pedestrian waiting at the side from stepping out - they have no licence or NCB to lose ](*,)
As for arguments about people who are mentally incapable of crossing the road the answer is simple. They should not be unsupervised in a situation where they could come to harm. Deaf and blind people are usually very careful at crossing a road anyways.
Yep, but that's a social rather than road traffic issue. Know what you mean though.
The bottom line is that if you expect pedestrians to do the illogical and unexpected then you'll never be disappointed. Or caught out.
fizzwheel
08-02-05, 12:03 PM
Agree with Jabba, you cant rely on pedestrians to do anything logical
If you're filtering past stationary traffic, then you're overtaking.
This is not strictly legal through a pedestrian crossing - though I guess we all do it. I certainly would not want to test the legality of this.
Well done for being able to stop.
Carsick
08-02-05, 12:14 PM
If you're filtering past stationary traffic, then you're overtaking.
This is not strictly legal through a pedestrian crossing - though I guess we all do it. I certainly would not want to test the legality of this.
Well done for being able to stop.
It's only on the illegal side if the traffic is stopped for the crossing pedestrians and it's the first vehicle at the crossing.
Bear in mind, all this discussion over who would have been in the wrong, Dan did stop and good on him. I've had more than a few moments of pedestrians doing absolutely insane things and it can be difficult to save them and not end up throwing your bike down the road at the best of times.
To be fair to the kid - it probably didn't ask to be used to stop the traffic...
I don't think darwin rules can be applied here. The parent is doing the natural selection, the kid has no choice...
Stu
Well I suppose now that people are forbidden from eating their young....
Flamin_Squirrel
08-02-05, 12:26 PM
To be fair to the kid - it probably didn't ask to be used to stop the traffic...
I don't think darwin rules can be applied here. The parent is doing the natural selection, the kid has no choice...
Stu
Well I suppose now that people are forbidden from eating their young....
There go my dinner plans.
As for crazy padestrians and London, well the two go together really don't they.
Balky001
08-02-05, 12:34 PM
Well I suppose now that people are forbidden from eating their young....
IS that whilst driving or at any time? :shock:
If you're filtering past stationary traffic, then you're overtaking.
This is not strictly legal through a pedestrian crossing - though I guess we all do it. I certainly would not want to test the legality of this.
Good point - if there's zigzags you can't overtake - or can you. Does it really matter as long as you are safe? I guess this pushchair woman wasn't running so maybe she thought the road was clear to cross and proceeded, Sudoxe obviously wasn't going too fast and consequently braked in time. If it was wet I'm sure you'd would have been going slower to compensate anyway. Obviously if a pedestrian darts out there's not much you can do but as you said, you slowed already for the crossing and it was the right thing to do. I think near misses like this are pretty common and not too much you can do to totally eradicate it.
If there's zigzags then overtaking and filtering are illegal. They're put there to avoid situation such as these. Have some patience cos a copper should nick you for overtaking on zigzags.
Carsick
08-02-05, 12:59 PM
You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.
Admittedly, those restrictions do cover pretty much any situation involving overtaking at a pedestrian crossing, but there are times when it's legal.
Flamin_Squirrel
08-02-05, 01:00 PM
If there's zigzags then overtaking and filtering are illegal. They're put there to avoid situation such as these. Have some patience cos a copper should nick you for overtaking on zigzags.
Eh, I think you should make sure you of your facts before being preachy, cos as I understand it that's not right.
If I understand correctly, you ARE allowed to filter up to pedestrian crossings as long as you don't pass the first vehicle. You're not alowed to park on zigzags, thats the main reason they're there.
You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.
you are quite correct :oops: didn't mean to sound preachy anyway :oops: :oops:
they ummm... must've changed this since i did my test... :? :oops:
Balky001
08-02-05, 01:13 PM
If there's zigzags then overtaking and filtering are illegal. They're put there to avoid situation such as these. Have some patience cos a copper should nick you for overtaking on zigzags.
Eh, I think you should make sure you of your facts before being preachy, cos as I understand it that's not right.
If I understand correctly, you ARE allowed to filter up to pedestrian crossings as long as you don't pass the first vehicle. You're not alowed to park on zigzags, thats the main reason they're there.
Obviously you'd be overtaking the last vehicle before the crossing if you have to stop for the pedestrian crossing but yes you can filter up to the last car - which wasn't the case in this thread but you are correct. Clearly you can't park on zigzags. So all is peachy not preachy
Flamin_Squirrel
08-02-05, 01:23 PM
You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.
you are quite correct :oops: didn't mean to sound preachy anyway :oops: :oops:
they ummm... must've changed this since i did my test... :? :oops:
:lol: 8)
Grainger
08-02-05, 02:29 PM
surely the point here is that most pedestrians wouldn't necesarily expect a motorcycle to come flying from behind a column of stationary traffic. The lady in question probably looked left (no traffic) and right (solid, stationary traffic and proceeded. Your motorcycle was no doubt coming fom her right as she was looking left to double check for oncoming traffic.
Regardless of the legal technicalities it is surely our responsibility if we hit someone in these situations.
...especially if we're filtering on the wrong side of the road :wink:
timwilky
08-02-05, 04:44 PM
Hmmm
This zigzag issue of what you can/can't overtake
What thappens in the event that there are two distinct lanes, correctly marked etc.
What is the situation where the car alongside you (I make no distiction between inside/outside lanes) is prevented by queuing traffic in front from crossing the crossing. Do I have to stop and wait event though it is clear for me to proceed in my lane?.
I doubt that mr Plod would book me for overtaking the last car thing. or would he
Carsick
08-02-05, 08:01 PM
What is the situation where the car alongside you (I make no distiction between inside/outside lanes) is prevented by queuing traffic in front from crossing the crossing. Do I have to stop and wait event though it is clear for me to proceed in my lane?.
The law says no overtaking the moving car nearest to the crossing and the car at the front when stopped for pedestrians. If the car is stopped for other cars and there are no pedestrians then go.
Mr Toad
09-02-05, 02:28 PM
well done Dan :thumbsup:
all in a day's work in the big smoke :D
Good reminder to us all, that however careful we think we are, there's always some muppet trying to throw themselves under the front wheel . . .
mysteryjimbo
09-02-05, 02:35 PM
I thought this was going to be a discussion on a well known brand of alcoholic beverage..............
"........ITS NOT READY YET!"
Jelster
09-02-05, 10:14 PM
Just to confirm the point about stationary traffic inside the zig zags....
You may filter past all vehicles with the exception of the one at the front, which may only be passed once you are through the other side. of the zig zag area.
Don't know how many times the IAM have drummed that into me (that and "progress, progress, progress" :lol: ).
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