View Full Version : awful riding
I was sitting at some lights today and to my amazement, two blokes on 04 sv's pulled up both sides of me. ( I say blokes, they looked all of 20 to me). I dont know why but I just got this feeling they were really new riders but they looked very keen to race off down the road. To be honest if your going to do that kind of thing, this was a brilliant place for it.
I must be getting old (23!) but I thought, nah not today. Anyway lights went orange and they sped off and I just followed behind them. Ive never seen such a poor performance from one of these blokes! To say he was unsmooth off the line was an understatement, then he didnt brake anywhere near enough for a roundabout and went horribly wide on the exit, narrowly avoiding the curb! But still hes giving it handfuls of throttle.
The next set of roundabouts happen to be some of my favourite corners, they are kneedown racetrack material, perfectly flat, perfect camber. Anyway I wont go on about myself but basically I gave them both a good ass kickin through this section and pulled away so I could just see them in my mirrors.
I slowed back down to 35 because there was now 2 way traffic and one of the muppets decided to go through the gap in the 2 way traffic and FAST, it was so tight! Im not sure what happened on his way through but he lost traction and had a horrible wobble which looked like it needed some serious hanging onto. Thankfully he made it unscaved but obviously **** himself as he pulled over straight away. He was very close to a serious accident.
Now I really do sound old but I felt like I encouraged him a bit and if I see someone who looks like a newbie, im leaving them to it in future! I wont finish on a patronising note and maybe im too inexperienced myself to give advise but if you are a brand new SV'er - respect it!
lol thought this might have been about me - i couldn't keep the back end in line this morning. :oops:
UncleBob
09-03-05, 07:08 PM
A good point - I'm new and easily influenced, but some riders are best off left to their own devices!
I'm wary abnout riding with some mates as they're nutters.. but if you know someone its easier..
shutdown
09-03-05, 07:51 PM
one concern of mine is on the big ride out is being tempted to "keep up"
i'm still learning how to ride my bike and don't have a huge amount of confidence on the thing.
shutdown
09-03-05, 08:01 PM
been riding since november but i've never ridding with anyone else
not been the weather to get a feel for the bike
one concern of mine is on the big ride out is being tempted to "keep up"
i'm still learning how to ride my bike and don't have a huge amount of confidence on the thing.
I'm in the same boat, only got my bike at the end of Jan and with the weather have hardly ridden it. We'll stay at the back and if we lose everybody, we'll just find a pub and get **** faced instead :wink:
shutdown
09-03-05, 09:00 PM
i like your thinking :wink:
hall13uk
09-03-05, 09:35 PM
one concern of mine is on the big ride out is being tempted to "keep up"
i'm still learning how to ride my bike and don't have a huge amount of confidence on the thing.
I'm in the same boat, only got my bike at the end of Jan and with the weather have hardly ridden it. We'll stay at the back and if we lose everybody, we'll just find a pub and get sh*t faced instead :wink:
i know the feeling i have only had my bike since oct and i sometimes feel very inscure at times but i did the snowball to birmingham from south east london with 9 other very experinced riders 35-40 i am 20 but they were aware of my needs and two of the nine were always by my side they took it in turns to stick with me while the other seven blasted of for a while. :)
i did the ride-out last year 2 up. Keeping up wasn't too much of a problem. I'll be there probably 2 up again this year, so if i get left behind i don't actually care too much :D
Mr Toad
09-03-05, 10:00 PM
On most 'big' rideouts, there will tend to be different factions, who will do things slightly differently, be it going fast, or following a slightly different route, or even getting lost :lol:
There is a saying that the only rider enjoying themselves in a group is the guy at the front . . . with the poor sod at the rear sweating like a fat man at a disco trying to keep up :lol:
The only advice I can give is to ride at a pace that you feel comfortable with, and if that means arriving 10 mins or half an hour after everyone else, then so be it. No one is going to laugh at your supposed 'lack of ability' as these things aren't a race. Sit back & enjoy the ride - save the racing for the track days.
It's really simple when riding with groups. NEVER EVER EVER play chase or catch up. Always ride to your own capabilities. If you think you are going too fast YOU ARE. Never think that the bloke in front knows what he's doing so I'll stay on his ****. When or if he messes up, your sat right behind him and will follow him into his accident. If you go out on a ride out and find that it's too fast for you, go home, it'll be safer.
Now having said all that, it's good to go on a ride out with a big group, because you will always find someone that is close to your own abilities and you can share the experience, have fun and most importantly of all, be safe.
I've just read this, so Jordan and Dan if you're listening... :lol: :lol: :lol: .
.
I've just read this, so Jordan and Dan if you're listening... :lol: :lol: :lol: .
.
Now now! I dont normally look as if im going to fall off the sv anymore! And i can get it round corners now! ;)
Anyway, the brighton run last year, i was at the back the whole way because of my limited rideing abilities, along with thoes with pillions. Dont worry about not keeping up, because if i can stay at the back of a rideout and make it there and back without too much delay to everyone. ANYONE can. Trust me, i am a very slow rider.
Stick to your limits and you will be fine.
Dan
Flamin_Squirrel
09-03-05, 10:47 PM
I've just read this, so Jordan and Dan if you're listening... :lol: :lol: :lol: .
.
*ahem*
Someone needs reminding who it is that can't make it round roundabouts :wink:
:winner: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have no reason to ride my bike other than for the hell of it but I ride it everyday without fail, Ive only had it 5 months and done 5500 miles.
But I drove mile after mile after mile practising cornering and braking, Id wait for a clear long stretch of road get it up to 70mph and then do a full on emergency stop - then Id do it again - and again - and again (not one after the other).
Then Id practise cornering, leaning the bike down a little bit more each time, then once I got that sorted I started experimenting how much power I could put down whilst leaning the bike over before the wheel would spin and so on and so on. But I personally found doing this gave me a real feel of when the bike is beginning to let go and what its capable of.
This may not be a good way to learn for some thinking about it lol! but it worked well for me anyway!
I did my first group rideout with some friends to France last year. They were all far more experienced than me, riding gixxers, ZXR's, Falco's etc. I rode faster than I have ever done before. I have only been riding 2.5 years in total now, so it was a lot less than 2 years when I went. Anyway, I had a great time and the rule was if anyone got left behind, the seconfd to last person would wait at the next juction so we all knew which way to go. I came back a better and more confident rider. If you only ride by yourself you get stuck in your comfort zone. Riding with other people improves your riding no end. All IMO obviously.
I've just read this, so Jordan and Dan if you're listening... :lol: :lol: :lol: .
.
*ahem*
Someone needs reminding who it is that can't make it round roundabouts :wink:
:oops: :lol: .
.
I've just read this, so Jordan and Dan if you're listening... :lol: :lol: :lol: .
.
I thought that too :lol: :lol: :lol:
sorry guys
All I can say is my riding has gone to shot in the last year, not sure why, maybe with nine points I'm a tad paranoid and can't get relaxed enough.
did my first rideout with the selkent boys nov 2003 2 months after I got the bike, there were 3 or 4 new riders and all enjoyed the day alot even tho the weather was awful...
best thing I ever did, had never done a proper rideout before, can't understand people who don't want to try them, you still ride your own pace
Baldyman
10-03-05, 09:53 AM
On most 'big' rideouts, there will tend to be different factions, who will do things slightly differently, be it going fast, or following a slightly different route, or even getting lost :lol:
There is a saying that the only rider enjoying themselves in a group is the guy at the front . . . with the poor sod at the rear sweating like a fat man at a disco trying to keep up :lol:
The only advice I can give is to ride at a pace that you feel comfortable with, and if that means arriving 10 mins or half an hour after everyone else, then so be it. No one is going to laugh at your supposed 'lack of ability' as these things aren't a race. Sit back & enjoy the ride - save the racing for the track days.
Well...................... that's what we both do NOW eh Si? :oops:
Mr Toad
10-03-05, 11:11 AM
On most 'big' rideouts, there will tend to be different factions, who will do things slightly differently, be it going fast, or following a slightly different route, or even getting lost :lol:
There is a saying that the only rider enjoying themselves in a group is the guy at the front . . . with the poor sod at the rear sweating like a fat man at a disco trying to keep up :lol:
The only advice I can give is to ride at a pace that you feel comfortable with, and if that means arriving 10 mins or half an hour after everyone else, then so be it. No one is going to laugh at your supposed 'lack of ability' as these things aren't a race. Sit back & enjoy the ride - save the racing for the track days.
Well...................... that's what we both do NOW eh Si? :oops:
Quite :D
We speak from experience - not much, but just enough . . . :D
I have been the fat man :oops: , and I've been at the front as well :twisted: , and I'm quite happy in the middle of the pack, especially if there is something nice to keep an eye on from time to time just in front :wink:
Baldyman
10-03-05, 01:40 PM
Hmmmmhhhhhhh
Never really understood why riders stay closer behind when I have a pillion, maybe it's because I go a bit slower?............or maybe not :wink:
This is where the drop off system is so good. The front rider has to stick to a pace where he has at least someone to mark a turn, the rear rider has no pressure to ride as anyone elses pace as every junction will be marked until he comes through.
In the middle of tha pack those that like to ride fast can as they will have marked a junction, waited for the tail end to come through and can then ride at their own pace until they get back to behind the leader ready to mark again. Anyone who is not keen on riding fast takes it at their own pace as there will always be someone telling them which way the leader went.
We did a run with 50 or so members of the VFR club through Wales last year, all with different abilities and did not loose a single rider. The same 5 people or so (experienced mainly IAM members) did 90 % of the marking. It was a blast.
This is the group riding etiquette that was decided on by the VFVR Club. Having this has meant that newbies have felt able to join in rideouts and know what to expect.
I would add that some of the VFR riders are very very quick, with lots of years biking experience.
Group Riding Etiquette - Please read
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of the real pleasures of this club are the big meets and rideouts. Group riding takes more care and a bit more concentration than solo riding so please take a moment to read this post if you are thinking of joining the club on a large rideout. The points below aren’t so much rules as points and suggestions to think about when riding in a large group. You never know, you might learn something new!!
Consensus on speed:
Most members tend to be quite happy in 60 and 70mph zones to travel at whatever speeds they individually feel are suitable. When riding in built up areas the general consensus is to stick (roughly) to the speed limits.
Ride out systems:
When we are riding in large numbers we usually have 3 groups, Fast Medium and Slow.
Each group will have some sort of system to keep us all on track, each group’s might be different but We will normally try to have a briefing session before we set off, which should cover things like route(s), is there a designated leader, stops and breaks, overtaking etiquette, etc.
Below are a couple of systems we might use depending on situation and group (fast, medium, slow).
You are welcome to go off on your own or join the group later etc. But if you find yourself amongst a group please use the system they have specified.
On any large rideout Ideally:
Bring a copy of the route, and a map (or at least familiarise yourself with the route)
If you bring along friends, please brief them on what is expected.
Arrive at the meet up with a full tank if possible, or if you have not managed that let someone know.
Go to the loo if required before the departure time.
The Drop off/Marker system
This requires a leader, a back marker, and all the riders taking part in directing the group at some point as a number 2 (even if they don’t know the route).
RUN LEADER
Usually fixed for the duration of the run.
Generally knows the route quite well. Identifies any first timers in the group and ensures they are familiar with the marshalling system to be used.
Establishes the fuel range of those machines present and arranges fuel stops as necessary.
Ensures that at least the Back Marker has details of the route, major stopping places, etc. and makes sure that the Number 2 rider is aware of the need to mark each junction. The leader should slow down and signal to the No2 when they think they should drop off. Give them time to select a suitably safe stopping place.
BACK MARKER
Usually fixed for the duration of the run.
Knows where the run is going, including any rendezvous stops etc.
Decides upon the best action necessary in the event of any participant missing a junction, or any other unplanned incident. In the case of a rider missing a junction, that junction should remain marked for a time sufficient to allow the missing rider to return.
NUMBER 2
Everyone except the Leader & Back Marker will find themselves in this slot at some time during the run.
Don't get too close to the Leader, they may just slow down for a junction whereas you will have to stop.
The general rule of marking all deviations from straight ahead (i.e. follow the white line) route must be maintained.
The exit on all roundabouts must be marked, even if the route is straight ahead (this may be eliminated only if the route is straight ahead AND all exits can easily be seen on the approach, such as many small roundabouts in towns, etc.). This is to prevent anyone taking the straight ahead exit when, in fact, it is a concealed right turn exit that is being marked.
When marking a junction, position yourself in a safe and as highly visible position as possible. If you feel that there is not a safe place to stop at a junction (r/about , Dual carriageway etc.?) DONT STOP, go a little further on before pulling over but try to be visible.
If necessary, re-inforce the direction to be taken by use of indicators and/or hand signals.
Re-join the run in front of the Back Marker when it is safe to do so. Meanwhile the group all move forward one and a new no.2 marks the next junction.
Advise the Back Marker if you believe that anyone has missed the junction.
ALL RUN PARTICIPANTS
Ensure you can identify the Leader and Back Marker.
Travel at your own pace. Do not worry about losing sight of the rider in front, as any deviation from the straight ahead route will be marshalled.
Overtaking is encouraged, but please be courteous!
If your aware of the rider behind riding a little quicker than you don't block them let them go
.
If in doubt about the direction to be taken, consult the marshal and/or wait for the Back Marker.
ENJOY YOURSELF!
If people are going to drop off the back of the group (behind the tail ender), they must inform the tailender what's going on.
Its not a race and you wont get left behind just because you cant see the bike in front. Take it steady, someone will be waiting at the next junction that deviates from straight ahead.
Looking after the bike behind
This system is more suited to small groups of riders who ride at similar (and normally faster) speeds.
Each rider is responsible for the rider behind taking the correct route.
Overtaking is allowed and there is no need to stop unless the route deviates from straight-ahead. If the person behind can CLEARLY see which direction you are taking you may only need to slow down. This makes for a fluid and fast rideout preventing bunching but it is easier to lose riders.
If you see the rider behind take a wrong turn wait at the junction (the person in front of you should do the same at the next junction), make sure following riders take the correct route. If you think that you’ve gone wrong ring the person who was ahead’s mobile.
Tips to safer riding in a group:
1) Always have consideration for those in-front and behind you
2) NEVER try and keep up if you feel you're having to ride above your limit. In group riding you'll always need to ride slower than normal to have the same concentration levels and safety margins.
If you are worried about pushing your limits find a rider of similar skill and team up with them for the rideout
that way you don’t get in the wrong frame of mind. Plus it’s a great way to get to know club members
3) when riding with others give them room. Don't follow too closely and if you feel you need to overtake make sure there is enough space ahead of the rider to allow you to re-merge into the group without drastic braking being needed by you or the rider you’ve just overtaken. Make sure the rider in-front is aware of your intention.
4) Take extra care to know what's in your mirrors and don’t forget lifesavers. Other bikes might be overtaking when you pull out to do a similar manoeuvre.
5) If you need to think if there will be enough space/ time to brake, overtake etc. there wont be, play it safe.
6) A good rider in a group will think about how a manoeuvre might be copied or followed by the people behind.
7) If someone is doing something you think is dangerous to the group (overtaking on the inside, late breaking etc.) or if you feel they could do with some advice, take them quietly to one side and ask if they mind you enlightening them. Try to do this in a light hearted or friendly way. No one likes a know it all and don’t forget they may have a better line of site than you.
Oh!! Don’t forget animals!! They’re bad enough when you’re on your own but a group of riders gives them longer to think of the most inopportune moment to cross your path.
Riding methods you might see being used by other riders:
1) Look out for riders ahead pointing out dangers (including speed cameras and the police). Warnings may come from: pointing with hands, sticking a leg out (handy on slippy surfaces when taking your hands off the bars is a bad idea) or dabbing brake lights.
2) If you see the rider in-front staying over on the other side of the road he's doing it for you. If they're still out on the right after an overtake it means there’s no oncoming traffic..(remember..yet!! Don’t forget junctions)
3) Similarly, mostly applying to dual carriageways, if the person in front is approaching someone or something they want to over take, move to the left (in the UK) and this gives them a better view of what is coming up behind. Conversely move to the right when they want to move to a lane to the left of you..
4) If you are riding in a staggered formation (a good way of dominating the road and fitting a large group of bikers into a small area, although only on straight roads and areas where it wont upset the line of sight of obstacles), don't come alongside, even partially, the bike in front. Try to keep a decent stopping distance between bikes in case the rider infront drops their bike into your path in an unseen braking emergancy. This also means that if they need to swerve sideways around obstacles, they can do so safe in the knowledge that they wont run the risk of colliding with the bike behind.
So Now you've read ths you'll have an idea of what to expect on a big group run.
Dont worry If you cant remember it all, its here to make you think, thats all. I'm sure it will all be re-iterated on every rideout and if in doubt just ask any member and they'll do their best to answer your questions.
__________________
I tend to ride middle of the pack, but the brighton run last year I did a back marker/sweeper job as I knew the route, quite enjoyed it as if I wanted a blast I could drop back a bit and catch up quick, + I could meander at my own pace in places too...
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