View Full Version : **Caught speeding?...read on!**
A collegue of mine told me this morning that if you get snapped by a gatso or similar (revenue generating) camera, they say in your letter that PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE IS AVAILABLE. Ask for it! Apparently it costs so much time and money to prove it they DROP 9 IN 10 charges! This has actually come from a coppers mouth too! :lol:
But please people do obey the speed limits at all times and I in no way promote speeding! :twisted:
Also have a look at this:- (interested?)
('http://www.mx5ocforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t%3d16767%26amp;sid%3de715c1f9173f92 6e9fac872884e0145c');
Interesting theory, sounds a bit like an urban legend to me. I've known a fair few people get caught for speeding, all requested the photos and all were still fined.
I'm still hoping they replace all gatsos with the truvelos... no front numberplates :)
ps: your link doesn't work
Me too! Ok havin a bit of trouble making that crappy link work but the general idea is a big rally sticking to all the speed limits and not breaking any laws and generally causing slow traffic by driving well errr... normally! Will get details as it started on an MX5 forum! :lol:
Makes sense to always ask for photo evidence. If you cant be indentified, and you are unsure of who was driving, how can you be fined?
Flamin_Squirrel
14-03-05, 10:53 AM
True or not, I'm asking for it if I ever get caught, just so they don't get all the money.
Now more machines are digital this isnt going to be a problem for the issuers.
Also as the registered owner, you will ultimately get done one way or the other for the speeding.
For example one of my friends, replied saying that its wasnt him riding the bike, but did not provide the name of his friend who WAS riding it at the time.
He didnt get the points for speeding, but he did get points for failing to provide the drivers details etc, and so ended up with 3 points anyway.
Anonymous
14-03-05, 11:09 AM
I think somewhere here it was reported that you have to PAY for the photographic evidence to be supplied. Unsure if thats true, but someone may remember. I guess the alternative is to go to court, demand to see the evidence and the gatso calibration data and be fined for being even more of a pain in the ****. Personally I agree, this is the stuff of myth.
if you can get points for not providing name of driver.....just say it was stolen, then found....
FYI i think this is the correct link
http://www.mx5ocforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=16767
wyrdness
14-03-05, 11:47 AM
if you can get points for not providing name of driver.....just say it was stolen, then found....
You'd probably end up in deep trouble if you tried this. The police would be really suspicious if you reported the vehicle stolen several days after the date of the speeding offence and then you claimed that you'd then found it again.
if you can get points for not providing name of driver.....just say it was stolen, then found....
You'd probably end up in deep trouble if you tried this. The police would be really suspicious if you reported the vehicle stolen several days after the date of the speeding offence and then you claimed that you'd then found it again.
I know...just throwing ideas into the pot... :D
From what I've been told...
1) Ask for the pics
2) Ask for the European Cert. od Conformity
3) Ask for the *valid* calibration certificate
One after the other andit should take some time.
Of course I could be wrong and as said before if you don't speed you don't get caught...
Stu
RenamedMonkey
14-03-05, 12:08 PM
I've heard about this idea many a time. It might work, but there is always a good chance they will respond with a bigger fine, and the evidence you asked for.
Flamin_Squirrel
14-03-05, 12:16 PM
I think somewhere here it was reported that you have to PAY for the photographic evidence to be supplied. Unsure if thats true, but someone may remember. I guess the alternative is to go to court, demand to see the evidence and the gatso calibration data and be fined for being even more of a pain in the @rse. Personally I agree, this is the stuff of myth.
Yep, you just can't afford to NOT to pay up and they know it. Makes me angry thinking about it - you could get 4 seperate NIPs for marginaly exceeding the speed limit, lose licence and get £240 worth of fines. The guy who ripped that bikers foot off got little more than that. :evil:
Ceri JC
14-03-05, 12:19 PM
I always thought that if you contested it, you had to go to court to do so. Also, by taking it to court, and if they do think you're taking the michael, they'll up the fine to as much as £1000? :?
Now more machines are digital this isnt going to be a problem for the issuers.
Also as the registered owner, you will ultimately get done one way or the other for the speeding.
For example one of my friends, replied saying that its wasnt him riding the bike, but did not provide the name of his friend who WAS riding it at the time.
He didnt get the points for speeding, but he did get points for failing to provide the drivers details etc, and so ended up with 3 points anyway.
You could find a hard-up student who will take the fall for three points to their license in exchange for a few quid.
msr
nuntius
14-03-05, 01:00 PM
The guy who ripped that bikers foot off got little more than that. :evil:
But dude, he was a LAW student. Absolutely no preferential treatment there, honest.
SVeeedy Gonzales
14-03-05, 01:07 PM
I've heard of a rider asking for the photo. evidence and then finding out that it was a car with a same plate as his bike... have also heard of people asking for evidence and the picture doesn't show the plate clearly, then it was "enhanced" in photoshop or similar to provide the plate, so the courts throw it out on the basis that evidence was tampered with.
I've never been done (yet) but if I got an NIP through on the basis that a camera had supposedly flashed me, I'd ask for the evidence and then make my decision based upon what the picture showed.
Another common thing is for people to look at the evidence and find that it's a car or bike with a similar/identical plate that's either a copy or where people have placed screws or repositioned letters and numbers strategically to spell something slightly different...
There are even rumours of people just not responding to the NIP and it never being chased up... not sure how true that is, though!
Personally, even if I knew it was my vehicle and me driving it, I'd ask for proof and if the evidence was poor enough then I'd fight it... I just hate the speed camera system, though having said that, I do quite well out of knowing where they are and there being less traffic police on the roads, at least in terms of being able to be slightly more free with speed.
The classic one is to check the evidence and make sure your vehicle/clothing/whatever is different to the one in the picture - have heard of people getting new jacket and helmet, etc. or new bits on the car, etc. and then comparing speeding photo to the new items... again, not sure how true that is, but if the bike or car is shown to be a different looking one from the evidence, just with the same plate, the court has to let it go. Obviously doing anything like that would be perverting the course of justice, and carrying a jail sentence isn't very advisable. Oh no...
I always thought that if you contested it, you had to go to court to do so. Also, by taking it to court, and if they do think you're taking the michael, they'll up the fine to as much as £1000? :?
This is possible but you never know! It'll be a gamble if you do it I suppose but as someone was saying there are loads of digital ones now etc, and the newer ones take frontal pics to identify the driver so how will that work on a bike? Anyone want to try it?! :lol: You know what'll be coming next, Licence plates on the front of your bike and/or restricted bikes for everyone!
I too have heard that if they enhance the picture then they can't do you for it but this was a long time ago and they can always change the law to suit themselves! It's not just speeding cameras what about congestion cameras like in london? Anyone believe this technology is fool proof? I dont :evil:
You know what'll be coming next, Licence plates on the front of your bike and/or restricted bikes for everyone!
Actually, they're attempting to have every rider identifiable by a "rider indentification number" on their crash helmets, so it won't matter whether they get from the front or rear.
nuntius
14-03-05, 03:15 PM
You know what'll be coming next, Licence plates on the front of your bike and/or restricted bikes for everyone!
Actually, they're attempting to have every rider identifiable by a "rider indentification number" on their crash helmets, so it won't matter whether they get from the front or rear.
That is the gay.
Spend 400 quid on a rossi replica, only to have it ruined by inch high letters above the visor
Which reminds me, I stil have to get a new helmet after my last off. It was a slow off, but the paint is scraped off one side of the helmet :(
Oh, and obviously, could have microfractures etc. But I'm more concerned with the look
Red ones
14-03-05, 06:17 PM
I've always (ahem) asked for the photos. They are usually hilarious.
If you are caught by a mobile unit you can identify the car driver easily, so they then black out the passenger in case it is someone who should not be in the car (like your fancy bit or something)
My wife got caught and you could see she was not just speeding, but picking her ear at the same time!
Baldyman
14-03-05, 06:34 PM
Fraid asking for a photo hoping it will all go away is a urban myth :( Asking for a photo took exactly 24 hours AND the 28 day clock STILL counts down while you wait for the evidence :shock:
Big Bad Al
14-03-05, 08:47 PM
if you can get points for not providing name of driver.....just say it was stolen, then found....
You'd probably end up in deep trouble if you tried this. The police would be really suspicious if you reported the vehicle stolen several days after the date of the speeding offence and then you claimed that you'd then found it again. I had this done to me years ago. I was sitting in my new (second hand) cavalier outside my house - hadn't even used it since driving home from Dan perkins! - when a car reversed into me and shunted me (in the passenger seat) a yard or so down the road. The car then drove off with the three blokes grinning at me but I got the reg and reported it. Car belonged to a bloke from the Golf Links Estate not far from where I lived.
He was interviewed by the Police, claimed his car had been stolen at the time of the crash and then subsequently found. He hadn't bothered to report it but still the police thought this was plausible and the guy got off scot free and I had to pay for my owen repairs as I was only tpft back then. So be a lying, cheating scumbag paid off for this guy.
Al
Spiderman
14-03-05, 11:22 PM
if you can get points for not providing name of driver.....just say it was stolen, then found....
You'd probably end up in deep trouble if you tried this. The police would be really suspicious if you reported the vehicle stolen several days after the date of the speeding offence and then you claimed that you'd then found it again. I had this done to me years ago. I was sitting in my new (second hand) cavalier outside my house - hadn't even used it since driving home from Dan perkins! - when a car reversed into me and shunted me (in the passenger seat) a yard or so down the road. The car then drove off with the three blokes grinning at me but I got the reg and reported it. Car belonged to a bloke from the Golf Links Estate not far from where I lived.
He was interviewed by the Police, claimed his car had been stolen at the time of the crash and then subsequently found. He hadn't bothered to report it but still the police thought this was plausible and the guy got off scot free and I had to pay for my owen repairs as I was only tpft back then. So be a lying, cheating scumbag paid off for this guy.
Al
That sucks mate :(
Its always "your word against" his when it comes to these things.
Wheres CCTV when you need it eh?
Go drive into his car in the middle of the night that'll teach the bugger! I once had a police dog van drive into one of my old cars! Low speed though and the bumper just flexed with no damage but it was still great to get a copper to appologise! :P
clanger
15-03-05, 01:51 PM
My ex used to pull names out of the obituaries & use them when he got a ticket. Saying this is a bloke he drinks with or whatever and borrowed the bike/car that day.
Quite grim for the families of the dead people - but it worked for him!
My ex used to pull names out of the obituaries & use them when he got a ticket. Saying this is a bloke he drinks with or whatever and borrowed the bike/car that day.
Quite grim for the families of the dead people - but it worked for him!
:shock:
To work effectively, the Gatso revenue system relies on standard and predictable responses from its victims. You are much more likely to escape a fine with unpredictable responses, because it places administrative pressure on an already overburdened system. Admin staff are much more likely to let things slide than take hours to dig out a photo from the archives. So, ask for that photographic evidence. You are entitled to it and it's free!
Anonymous
15-03-05, 05:09 PM
To work effectively, the Gatso revenue system relies on standard and predictable responses from its victims. You are much more likely to escape a fine with unpredictable responses, because it places administrative pressure on an already overburdened system. Admin staff are much more likely to let things slide than take hours to dig out a photo from the archives. So, ask for that photographic evidence. You are entitled to it and it's free!
But as someone said its now as quick as clicking the computer mouse with digital imaging, and I don't think it is free.
Anyhow, what's the point. If you know it was you, be big and accept it. If you honestly dont think it was you, then fair enough.
And blimey Clanger, what your ex did is despicable!
Flamin_Squirrel
15-03-05, 06:41 PM
Anyhow, what's the point. If you know it was you, be big and accept it. If you honestly dont think it was you, then fair enough.
Bah, being caught by a witless machine has no bearing on your riding/driving ability - it's nothing more than another (random) motoring taxation, and most people view cameras and their operations with the contempt they deserve. Fight the thieving gits I say.
The original post is utter crap, don't try it.
that said however you should carry out as much delay tactics as you can whilst meeting any statutory obligation you have, vis
If you are the registered keeper you have a statutory duty to respond to the NIP with the details of the driver within 28 days.
If you genuinly don't know, you will need a good reason for this to satisfy the court that you don't, I can't remember is not enough, then you have the opportunity for a Para 4 defence which states that the registered keeper must make sufficient effort to fulfil this obligation. So you need to have a reason you don't know, have investigated yourself and have a reason you can't find out. You will then need to go to court to defend yourself on a Section 172 charge. At magistrates court 90% of people will be convicted, at appeal 70% of people will get the conviction overturned, Total cost of 2-3000 quid will be covered only if you win.
You can satisfy your obligations without using the form and this is where things can get fun.
If you resond to the NIP with a written statement in a particular format you will have given them the information that statute says that you must but they (depending on which area) may not be sure how to use that information, remember this system is forms driven by morons.
They may suggest that you have not met your obligations and re-request the information giving you a further 28 days. By now they will be almost 3 months down the line from your original offence.
They will then likely threaten you and try to cajole you into capitulating but eventually may lay papers before the Magistrates court (not all people get taken to court).
They must have laid papers before the 6 months is up. Now if they feck it up they will charge you with Section 172, failing to identify, but you have and you wait to go to court and win.
If they charge you with speeding you can plead guilty before the date of the hearing and you will get the same fine plus about 30 quid costs.
The courts can not fine you anymore than you would have been fined under for a standard fixed penalty offence, your exposure is one of costs.
If you are genuinely in need of info on anything speed prosecution related you need to spend a couple of evenings reading the forums at www.pepipoo.com
FWIW I won an appeal at crown court last year and had a coniction overturned. The experience cost just over £3000 of which I wound up paying 500, the original fixed penalty offer was £60 and three points.
Patch, your post was full of useful information but was it really necessary to be so rude to the original poster?
My post was not rude to the original poster it was rude about the advice that he had been given which is indeed utter crap. I made no reference to the poster but did reference "the original post, that is...."
This is the post
A collegue of mine told me this morning that if you get snapped by a gatso or similar (revenue generating) camera, they say in your letter that PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE IS AVAILABLE. Ask for it! Apparently it costs so much time and money to prove it they DROP 9 IN 10 charges! This has actually come from a coppers mouth too!
It is indeed utter crap
The original post is utter crap, don't try it.
that said however you should carry out as much delay tactics as you can whilst meeting any statutory obligation you have,
:evil: Hmmm yeah thanks and I DIDN'T F******G MEAN IT AS ADVICE ITS UP TO ANY MORON WHO GETS CAUGHT SPEEDING TO TRY IT!!!!!!!!!! Personally I know how technology works (I work in Avionics) and it is as easy as clicking on a bloody PC but it's up to whoever wants to try it is'nt it?! Were all big boys (and girls!) now i'm sure we can face what we do in life :evil:
P.S sorry everyone prehaps you caught me on a bad morning but was rude! wouldn't have minded a more tactical aproach to it's utter crap!
Thanks :oops:
Heres a little story for you and bear with me, A friend of mine recently bought a van for his work (landscaping), as his other blew up. Now everything seemed above board and legal yet a week or so after taking it home after being relieved of £6000 the police knock on his door and tell him its a clone. The number plates belong to another vehicle already on the road, so if someone copies your plates and then goes speeding through a Gatso who ends up with a letter saying you've been speeding? YOU! Moral of the story ask for photographic evidence! Of course if they give a location in the totally oposite end of the country to you then alarm bells will be ringing in your head early anyway.
Anyone see Jeremy Clarkson do a little experiment with a gatso and some fictional characters? A teen "twocer" (car thief), Osama Bin Laden with a pick up truck full of AK47's, and a little old granny in her rover on the way to a WI meeting! Guess who got "caught" by the gatso? The granny! Think about it :-k
Anonymous
16-03-05, 10:45 AM
Anyhow, what's the point. If you know it was you, be big and accept it. If you honestly dont think it was you, then fair enough.
Depends if I thought I'd been exceeding the speed limit in a way which endangered myself or others. If I'd exceeded the posted limit and had done so responsibly, taking into account road conditions, traffic etc then I would still feel gutted about being fleeced for speeding.
We've been down this road a million times before but the end of it as far as I'm concerned is that speed cameras do not prevent crime and do not cut road deaths and injuries, hence they serve no purpose other than revenue generation.
Of course. My point is they are the rules like them or not. Push the rules, runs risks, the risk here is getting caught. Whether the rules are fair or not. My answer is ok I pushed the rules, I got caught, b***ard b****r s**t etc etc...but you still might as well just cough up if you know its you.
Now campaigning is another thing.
Anonymous
16-03-05, 10:49 AM
Anyhow, what's the point. If you know it was you, be big and accept it. If you honestly dont think it was you, then fair enough.
Bah, being caught by a witless machine has no bearing on your riding/driving ability -
Didnt say it did, dont think. My comments are aimed against pointless moaning. Fair cop and all that.
But maybe it probably as you were too unobservant to notice a huge big camera :wink: Now thats tongue in cheek before the humourless become outraged. Personally I would rather be going a little quicker and watching the road than watching out for cameras.
Ok then I was travelling down the end of the wessex way in bournemouth when I had My Seat Ibiza Cupra and was caught by a temporary camera down in the slip road. It's a 50 limit at that point as it doesn't open out to national for about 300-400 yards and I was doing 71. it was really quiet with hardly anyone around and the road conditions were perfect so ok I was speeding but I was doing dual carridgeway speeds in perfect control and conditions yet I always see tossers on thier phones which is stupid even if they're obeying the limit! Once went round a guy on the bike driving like a ****, when I got along side he was texting! Had a passenger that could've done it for him too!
Anyway apart from drifting away a bit and opening a whole can of worms I guess it makes sense to make sure it was your car that was snapped and you were driving etc before handing your licence and cash over. :?
nuntius
16-03-05, 02:05 PM
Ok then I was travelling down the end of the wessex way in bournemouth when I had My Seat Ibiza Cupra and was caught by a temporary camera down in the slip road.
That's what they like to do. Be more aware fo their presence on slip roads, after sharp bends and approaching faster speed limit areas (incase you sped up too soon). No one is saying it's right, but they will continue to do it till they get told to stop
Carsick
16-03-05, 02:07 PM
Ok then I was travelling down the end of the wessex way in bournemouth
I bloody hate that road, soooo many cameras with only a 50 limit.
Ok then I was travelling down the end of the wessex way in bournemouth
I bloody hate that road, soooo many cameras with only a 50 limit.
Yeah but I must admit I'm much more aware of cameras and stuff now but why keep your eye out for all these cameras and not on the road? I got a (cheap) snooper radar detector for the car and apparently they're gonna ban them maybe as early next year! I think its all a bunch of crap! :rant:
Anyway who wants to go for a demo ride out like that one in carlise?! :twisted:
Baldyman
16-03-05, 06:38 PM
Yes it IS crap http://predator.bikepics.com/icon/suzuki-sv650s-04-bikepics-311001.jpg
Notice the country scenery, no school within 3 miles, hmmmm is this an accident blackstop - NO! is it a revenue collection point - you answer :(
So another three points and £60 (first on the bike though :) )
But as Dr Rich says, I'm campaigning (or is that complaining)
Carsick
16-03-05, 06:43 PM
Yes it IS crap http://predator.bikepics.com/icon/suzuki-sv650s-04-bikepics-311001.jpg
It's also blatantly you, with that jacket on. :wink:
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