View Full Version : Good or Bad riding? or is this acceped???
The Mass
28-03-05, 09:03 AM
HI all,
Just thought I would share this with you lot before I post the curry recipe in "Idle Banter"
I was out on Friday getting the mileage on the blue cow (before she goes in for 1st service) so made my way to Abbergavenny through the twisties and back lanes :thumbsup:
Now I know that I am by no means and advanced rider, so I take my time, and ride within my limits, taking it easy, taking int he views and when the roads clear overtaking where necessary and so on.
Anyway, got to Abber and on then set on my way back, for the S.wales lot they'll know where I am talking about.
Taking it easy on my way bak, and all of a sudden I'm stuck behind maybe 6 cars on a single lane carriageway, really twisty, so you can't see what's goin on in front of you, so I took my time, and didn't go up the **** o the cars in front.
Suddenly :shock: there's 2 bikes beside me, a Black R1 and and old feckin thing, which looked like it was in desperate need of sitting in some museum :shock:
So as you do you let on, and this R1 decides to "RISK HIS LUCK" by riding the white line "Literally" - I thought "WHAT A F***in NOB ED" :shock: and norrowly misses a car coming in the opposite direction.
So what does his mate do ? exactly the same!!!! 2 nob eds in 1 go! SUPERB!
The bloke in front of me int he car was shaking his head (I thought it was going to come off his shoulders).
After calming down, I suddenly thought to myself - Hang ona minute, if either of them had come off or hit something, I wouldl feel obliged to stop and help :shock: and then be tied to the same brush as them by all the cage drivers :shock: :shock: :shock:
WTF !!!!
Am I being padantic or summat, sorry for the rant...I was speking to Nagai at the weekend and asked the question "Is this what you ride like on a ride out"?
If so - then expect to loose me about 4 miles back!!!
I'm so shocked at what I saw, it was un-real!
Rant over - apologies
Mass
diamond
28-03-05, 09:16 AM
I'm with you on this one, kn*bs!
and asked the question "Is this what you ride like on a ride out"? If so - then expect to loose me about 4 miles back!!!
No. Kamakazi pilots are simply not welcome. Spirited and highly focussed riding yes, but people who ride like you've described would be singled out and the situation explained to them. Should they decide that they don't wish to ride within reasonable boudaries and with respect for other motorists and the people they're riding with, then they'd be asked go their own way.
I'm so shocked at what I saw, it was un-real!
It's this sort of behaviour that really does give bikers a bad name and starts to tar us all with the same brush - that's the bad news. The good news is that these sort of riders are unlikely to survive too long, as Darwinian law takes over.
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we need ****s like that .don't we :reaper:
The Mass
28-03-05, 09:31 AM
Cheers all,
it sort of be-littled me at first, and then I had the same thoughts as Jonboy and the Darwin theory.
Ye know if they wanted (in some way) to frighten me, then they succeeded, wasn't scared for myself, but for their safety, if you know what I mean??
You lot must see this a lot, ye know I only have about 600 miles under my belt on the SV, IF I EVER end up like that ...well words can't just describe...
Cheers all for understanding :thumbsup: see yers all soon, can't wait !
Were there double white lines? If there were and they were crossing them then theres no argument they were knobs but if there weren't maybe they still are knobs but maybe they weren't.
leatherpatches
28-03-05, 10:12 AM
It's pretty hard to judge other people's riding. It could have been a couple of carefully executed and calculated risk overtakes, but appeared different from other angles.
Or, it could have been a couple of nobs playing keepy uppy at any cost.
Like the others say - survival of the fittest should kick in at some point if the second is true.
You always get some people with over developed right wrists :wink: and if they are on a bike then they will probably come off.
OK 'nuf of the Finbar Saunders. It's best to let the turkeys go, I always work on the principle that anyone can go fast, the difficult bit is stopping without it hurting.
On Saturday going from Caton -> Devils Bridge, there were 2 of us following a large 4x4 doing ~60. The road meanders nicely and the 4x4 was straightening all the corners, there was no rush we would be past him in a few hundred yards where the road straightens. A T0ssp0t came past us at well into 3 figures (with an end can like a megaphone) none of us saw him coming (the cage driver nearly hit his head on the roof when he jumped :) ). The rider didn't have enough time to assess the situation and couldn't tell the 4x4 was using all the road I reckon I was lucky not to be clearing bits off the road.
Sad thing is I bet the rider blamed the 4x4 for cr4p driving :shock:
not knowing the roads hard to say... if double whites thats just stupid...
but after the white line thread here recently and people pointing out double whites are now used indiscriminately and people ignore them whats right and wrong....
again, its not knowing the road in question. If blind bend, oncoming traffic, no clear escape route, then theres a good reason for the white lines and you dont ride like that unless you own a r1 :wink: :lol:
but if on a straight and clear view then maybe I would consider taking the opportunity to get ahead on the basis the white lines were there for no reason...
but interesting to see the comments here, the comments in the white lines thread and compare to the thread about the traffic cops program where the guy got done for the same thing and a few people were up in arms over that in comparison to the guy who lost the lotus on the corner... complaining about police bias etc...
but at the end of the day, you never ride anyone elses ride, you ride to your abilities and comfort level. Their level of experience, ability, and personal choices on risks to take will be different to you. If youre not comfortable you DONT do what they do.
If it means you are 4 miles behind so what... at least you'll still be alive next year unlike the R1 rider by the sound of it...
I reckon some car drivers think it bad practice for bikes to overtake when on single carriageways. Just because we can take advantage of our turn of acceleration and handling it seems we are vindicated against. I like to make quick but smooth progress, only making a move where it is safe to do so and i can see the road ahead. While i was out on friday i saw a couple of guys whitelining it down a single carriageway with traffic coming both ways - something which i wouldnt have attempted. Like its been said, it all depends on the conditions to how dangerous it was. I personally like to make sure i make enough room between myself and car before overtaking, unless im filtering where ill take a lesser gap.
I used to ride like that and have the scars to prove it.
I blame it on peer pressure, when I was young and riding within the law my mates told me to ride like a man. Which in essence ment top speed everywhere and lane splitting on single carriageways. Sadly most of them are dead or so injured they'll never get on a bike again.
You've got to leave a margin for error, for yourself and every other road user.
Moriarty
28-03-05, 01:31 PM
I have to agree with everyone here. You can't say yes or no unless you know exactly the situation. However, even though you aren't the most experienced biker in the world, you obviously passed the test and are therefore qualified to say if you think something is absoloutely mental.
Unbroken whites are put there for a reason and If we're talking about the brow of a hill or a blind corner, then its safe to assume that its probably not safe to overtake.
Im off to look at curry recipes now - you made me hungry.
Ken McCulloch
28-03-05, 02:22 PM
The good news is that these sort of riders are unlikely to survive too long, as Darwinian law takes over.
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Well I beg to differ. If these riders are indeed likely to die by their own hands, so to speak, that is bad news for all of us as it's one more bit of evidence 'against' motorcyling. What we should be aiming to achieve is fewer biker casualties, otherwise we are indeed all tarred with the same brush as irresponsible nob-eds who take up disproportionate amounts of NHS and emergency services' time and effort. We don't want these guys to die, even if they were riding like ****s (and no disrespect to the OP but he might not have the experience to make that judgement??). We want them to strive to ride better and smarter, safer.
We want them to strive to ride better, smarter, safer and without a t*pbox
Yes you have a good point :lol: .
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We want them to strive to ride better, smarter, safer and without a t*pbox
Yes you have a good point :lol:
you just cant help yourself can you greg? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Riders like that don't bother me, of sorts. I used to be one of them. With youth comes the fearless factor. As I grow older I think more of the "what ifs" and as a consequence my riding has become slower, more controlled, and every single thing is a "what if". Only the "what if's" are analysed before the event rather than after it. When someone like that passes me, my thoughts are what to do when I get to the accident. I slow down for a short period of time to make sure that I don't end up riding into the already occurred accident at speed. This has actually happened too, it was not a pretty site.
There will always be riders like that, and we will always be tarnished with the same brush. You just have to make sure that you are not one of them. Riding bikes always means taking risks, it's the nature of the sport. There are some that will take more risks than others. There are riders who ride fast and take lots of risks, but also consider their own life, the environment in which these risks are taken and don't wish to make unnecessary risks which will raise the stakes. Then there are the lunatics.
Riding bikes always means taking risks, it's the nature of the sport.
An interesting point but do you mean extra to the inherent risks of actually being on two wheels rather than four, or do you mean that riding a bike means that you (as a matter of course) occasionally put yourself in a postion of risk (like a dodgy overtake etc) otherwise it would simply be too boring and unexciting?
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Riding bikes always means taking risks, it's the nature of the sport.
An interesting point but do you mean extra to the inherent risks of actually being on two wheels rather than four, or do you mean that riding a bike means that you (as a matter of course) occasionally put yourself in a postion of risk (like a dodgy overtake etc) otherwise it would simply be too boring and unexciting?
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Yes I mean that we take risks more than any other road user. It's par for the course. We overtake far more than any other road user. That in itself says that we take more risks. We are also more AT risk than other road users.
I'm still confused. What I'm trying to understand is whether you mean that we take risks (i.e. gamble on the outcome of an action) or are simply at greater risk than car drivers because we're exposed and on two wheels.
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Carsick
28-03-05, 04:13 PM
I'm still confused. What I'm trying to understand is whether you mean that we take risks (i.e. gamble on the outcome of an action) or are simply at greater risk than car drivers because we're exposed and on two wheels.
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I think they're saying both.
We do take more risks than somebody in a car, for the simple fact that if something does go wrong then we can get hurt.
Doh!!! What I am saying is that YES riding a bike we are at more risk than most other road users, or should I say more vulnarable. We also take more risks than most other road users. It's just that some riders are willing to take more risks than others. Those that take more risks are less concerned of the outcome or don't think about the "what if's".
You sure are making this hard work Mr Greg :roll: :roll:
Peter Henry
28-03-05, 05:44 PM
Got to agree those boys sound like knobs alright. Even down here in Southern Spain where many bad drivers reside,(many of them imported from other countries mind!) that kind of sh*t is frowned upon.
I have noticed though if you are travelling along a road that is perfect for bikes but traffic is restricting your progress, just being a little patient without hooking your front fender on to the bumper of the car in front will reap it's reward.
Many car drivers will ease over for you to pass accepting that you are not being a lunatic and safe, swifter progress is possible for a bike. I always make a point of acknowledging the gesture made by the car driver by a nod,or wave or toot of horn as I pass. 8)
Doh!!! What I am saying is that YES riding a bike we are at more risk than most other road users, or should I say more vulnarable.
Ah okay, there I agree with you. Riding a bike is simply more dangerous than driving a car.
We also take more risks than most other road users.
No, you'll have to define that for me, still not sure what you mean.
It's just that some riders are willing to take more risks than others.
So are you saying that all riders take risks, for instance overtaking round a blind bend?
Those that take more risks are less concerned of the outcome or don't think about the "what if's".
Well I would say that those that do take risks certainly don't think about the consequences very deeply.
You sure are making this hard work Mr Greg
Sorry, it's just that this demonstrates the shortcomings of a forum based medium and if we'd been talking over a coffee at Soho I would have cottoned on to the exact meaning of your comments instantly. Maybe it's best left to Friday? :wink:
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We also take more risks than most other road users.
No, you'll have to define that for me, still not sure what you mean.
Every time we decide to overtake we are taking a risk, albeit a calculated one. We are going broad side of another vehicle and not knowing 100% what that driver/rider is going to do, therefore there lies the risk. We may decide to overtake and not see the traffic bollard (sorry Ian, wasn't a dig, just an example) or brick in the road etc etc, therefore a risk. The fact that we overtake more than most vehicles mean that we take more risks.
Yes but that can be summed up with the previous comment "Riding a bike is simply more dangerous than driving a car."
That's not taking risks, that's simply riding a bike.
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WHATEVER :!: :!:
Your right topical conversations via text doesn't work very well and gets boring very quickly :lol: :lol:
So as you do you let on, and this R1 decides to "RISK HIS LUCK" by riding the white line "Literally" - I thought "WHAT A F***in NOB ED" :shock: and norrowly misses a car coming in the opposite direction.
I had the same thing happen to me on the way home from brands hatch this evening...except the KNOB was riding a multistrada...
Your right topical conversations via text doesn't work very well and gets boring very quickly :lol: :lol:
My bits weren't boring. :lol:
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Your right topical conversations via text doesn't work very well and gets boring very quickly :lol: :lol:
My bits weren't boring. :lol:
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Hmmmmm my perspective is somewhat different from yours then =;
:wink:
Your right topical conversations via text doesn't work very well and gets boring very quickly :lol: :lol:
My bits weren't boring. :lol:
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now that REALLY is a soho conversation :lol: :lol: .... see ya Friday guys :D
subject to me surviving my first track day on thursday... maybe off sick but Im buggered if Im wasting 90 quid...
Steve W
28-03-05, 08:16 PM
A couple of thoughts. Biking is ingherently more risky than driving a car and some car drivers make sure that's true... most days whether riding nmy bike or driving my car I see poor car driving, some of it reckles and a lot of it careless... Most of the time the consequences for the car driver are limited... you have to try quite hard or be unlucky to hurt yourself seriously in a car but that's not the case on a bike... Because there are significantly fewer bikes than cars on the roads a piece of nob ed driving does not lead people to think all car drivers to think all others are dangerous but sometimes to think all BMW/Porshe/Volvo etc drivers all whereas any bit of nonsense from a bike rider damns all bikers, perhaps because most cagers can't distinguish between different bikes!
Note: DO NOT eat chocolate prior to commencement of track day. :lol:
Catch ya Friday. :wink:
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Note: DO NOT eat chocolate prior to commencement of track day. :lol:
Catch ya Friday. :wink:
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have you any idea what state Im in right now? chocolate free for over a week... so god knows how sensitive Im gonna be to chocolate on Friday... :shock: there REALLY should be warnings issued :shock: :D
but would be fun... dont know what the rest of the guys doing the track day are going to make of me and my battered sv with a rack and my forthright opinions and well known diplomatic skills and tact :wink: :lol: ...
my aim is to trounce at least a couple of cbrs.. and a r1 possibly.. lets face it most people dont push their bikes cos they dont want to damage them... mines doing a good impersonation of bucket ... ie held together by gaffer tape.... be an interesting read.... SV with a top box rack trounces an R1..... ok Ill wake up in a minute... but its nice to dream... :D
and this is me off of chocolate.... :shock: Im starting to get scared and think hyper is my natural state... :? :shock: :lol:
oooohhhh friday... where do you come down from? Ill still be in northampton and going to soho from there.... pm me if Id be on your way in and Ill sort out coming in with you... :lol:
Carsick
28-03-05, 08:39 PM
Yes but that can be summed up with the previous comment "Riding a bike is simply more dangerous than driving a car."
That's not taking risks, that's simply riding a bike.
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I dunno about you, but isn't that pretty much what Si said in the first place?
oooohhhh friday... where do you come down from? Ill still be in northampton and going to soho from there.... pm me if Id be on your way in and Ill sort out coming in with you... :lol:
Yes I'm sure we could meet up, sort something out Friday morning.
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Yes but that can be summed up with the previous comment "Riding a bike is simply more dangerous than driving a car."
That's not taking risks, that's simply riding a bike.
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I dunno about you, but isn't that pretty much what Si said in the first place?
Well if he did, I obviously didn't get it. My bad - maybe :twisted: :lol:
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Ceri JC
30-03-05, 11:21 AM
I was up in Brecon near Storey Arms at the weekend (in the cage, going for a hike) and a largish (about 10-12) rideout of big sportsbikes (Mostly GSXR 1000s and R1s, couple of Blades, etc. not one "slow" bike among them) were coming the other way. They were going fastish for the road (about 80mph), but not excessively so. However, their road positioning was bizzare: Despite there being nothing in their lane for about half a Km (and certainly nothing they could see, given the bends/trees), they were all riding in single file, very close together (all of them literally only a few feet from the bike infront) and even more strangely, they were all riding right down the centre of the road (some of them were very, very close to clipping mirrors with our car going the other way).
Things I really can't see any reason for:
a) Not riding in a flank, so other riders can see ahead/there's more stopping distance, without comprimising how close the group are riding.
b) Being bang in the middle of the road. Where they were, it confered no increased visibility to traffic (and the fact they were in single file meant they were little more visible than a single biker), no ability to see further ahead to them and was pretty dangerously close to other vehicles in the oncoming lane.
c) All of them being so close together. Speed they were going at you would sometimes have to throw the brakes on after a corner, I reckon at least one of the group would spoon it and cause a pile-up.
I know you get the odd weekend warrior who doesn't know any better, but I find it hard to believe that a group this big/this fast weren't a lot more experienced. I was also under the impression rideouts were always slower than single bikes :?
Balky001
30-03-05, 12:09 PM
Despite there being nothing in their lane for about half a Km (and certainly nothing they could see, given the bends/trees), they were all riding in single file, :?
Were they doing their DAS?? :wink:
Biker Biggles
30-03-05, 02:32 PM
Perhaps they were slipstreaming each other just to get that last essential 2 mph,and if you are that close you have to ride the white line to tell where you are going cos you cant see,you see,or not :wink:
Ceri JC
30-03-05, 02:56 PM
Perhaps they were slipstreaming each other just to get that last essential 2 mph
Ha ha, yes they put the guy with the power commander and race can at the front and have the others "using" his slipstream for their bikes :lol:
shutdown
30-03-05, 02:57 PM
if a cager wants to think we're all bad bikers then that's their problem. It's a problem that we'll always have to deal with no matter how well we ride.
it's just a shame there are some that go along and f*ck it up for the rest of us.
If you saw these people laying in the road ahead you know you would stop and I expect you'd hold back on saying "You ferking deserved it the way you were riding"
Ceri JC
30-03-05, 03:03 PM
it's just a shame there are some that go along and f*ck it up for the rest of us.
Yes, the great shame is that no one ever really notices the rapid but considerate motorcyclist, by their very nature, they're gone before you really register their presence. It's the ones gunning their race cans on 30mph roads, repeatedly trying dodgy overtakes, popping wheelies etc. that will garner the attention of Joe Public.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no young fogey and enjoy a bit of speed and adrenaline as much as the next man, but I like doing it in a manner that doesn't turn every other road user I come across into a bike-hating bigot.
SVeeedy Gonzales
31-03-05, 10:03 AM
I see a lot of those GSXR1000 and R1 and fireblade riders going in and out of London every day. Well, only the sunny days, in fact... days like today they cry off... and they're a pain to get past when they get scared at going through gaps and filtering a lot of the time.
Sadly a lot of people feel that all you need is a big bike and bigger b@lls... no thought about experience or planning... rest assured that the wonderful powers of natural selection will wipe them out before the summer ends... or you could only ride on cold/wet days when none of them have the bottle to come out? Idiots can use all sorts of vehicles - bikes as well as cars.
Jelster
31-03-05, 08:16 PM
Do double white lines count for bikes ?? :lol:
As for riding "single file"..... When riding at a "brisk" pace correct road position is essential and it stands to reason that you will all be taking the same (or a similar) line. It is quite often that I can't see either Topcat or Nick in my mirrors when we're "keeping it on the boil", quite simply because they are on the same line.
Also, if you ride with someone a lot, you tend to know what they are going to do before they do it and therefore have better anticipation of actions. I have clocked a lot of miles with Topcat in particular and we can generally predict when and where each other will change position.
I'm not saying that the guys mentioned in the first post were in the right, but if they ALL subscribe to the fact that one of them can take the other out, and are OK with it, it's their risk, as long as nobody else is endangered.
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