View Full Version : Exhaust and Number Plates - Police view
fraser01
05-04-05, 03:52 PM
Ok there has been an awful lot of talk regarding having noisy exhausts and small no. plates...with people saying that its legal now etc etc :?
Well this forum was not the only source that i have heard these rumours and so i spoke to some colleagues in the know, they are responsible for teaching new traffic officers current legislation, so if anyone should know..then it is these guys.....
Their answers confirmed my beliefs....
No. plates: Should still conform to the standard sizes stated in Construction and Use, i.e 9x7 (depending on how many digits you have)
a good website - http://www.malplates.co.uk/legbike.html
Exhausts: Like wise with exhausts, they should be stamped with an E marking, those that have not for road use written on them are still not legal, if you remove your baffles that will also still be illegal.....
So nothing has changed...the legislation is the same as it was, MOT laws may have changed but this does not effect current Road Traffic Laws.... The police still can and will prosecute, give tickets etc.
So forget all the rumours...if i hear of any changes i will post them here!
Hope this helps people out... :D
Regards
Fraser
was there confusion on that then ? :shock:
I new the MOT had changed but never presumed road was any different to what it previously was...
Fair enuff :lol:
Carsick
05-04-05, 03:58 PM
I new the MOT had changed but never presumed road was any different to what it previously was...:
Same, but confirmation is handy.
fizzwheel
05-04-05, 03:59 PM
Cool post thanks Fraser
Exhausts: Like wise with exhausts, they should be stamped with an E marking, those that have not for road use written on them are still not legal, if you remove your baffles that will also still be illegal.....
I have never seen anyone claiming that an exhaust stamped as not for road use was now legal. The claim has been made that if an exhaust is not stamped at all it is OK for the MOT subject to the MOT testers subjective comparison of the noise level with with similar engined machines
So nothing has changed...the legislation is the same as it was, MOT laws may have changed but this does not effect current Road Traffic Laws.... The police still can and will prosecute, give tickets etc.
But this is an untenable situation. If I understand your sumisation correctly I can get my bike MOT'd then be stopped by the police and given a rectification notice and then return to the MOT and get the notice signed without making any change to the bike. What a waste of all of our time.
The MOT no longer requires an E-Number to be stamped on the exhaust
So forget all the rumours...[quote]
This is not rumour it is policy as issued to the MOT testing stations
[quote]
Hope this helps people out... :D
Not me I am more confused than ever.
fraser01
05-04-05, 04:45 PM
Patch,
You are never happy.....there is nothing to get confused about....
The legislation relating to construction and Use has not changed....it is still the same.....as i said, this is the police view not an MOT view....if there are contradictions then that is for the goverment to take up....the purpose of the thread is to give someone an insight to how the police view the situation. I have also had rumours from many different sources...as i said originally not just this forum...if your not happy with the content of this thread then feel free to ignore it...
Happy biking :wink:
Spiderman
05-04-05, 05:14 PM
Thanks for the post Fraser. i was waiting for your info after reading that other thread on here a few days back.
I'd rather be aware of how the cops feel about my bike and worry about the MOT just on the day. At least the MOT guy aint gonna make me produce and slap me with a fine ;)
I get what Patch means about these quirks in the laws cross refrencing ability but thats so true of so many laws its a bit of a joke at times anyway.
northwind
05-04-05, 05:29 PM
Yep, I see exactly where Patch is coming from and for what it's worth I think he's right- since any rectification notice will be completed to MOT standard there's not much point in applying different standards to the penalties... but thanks a lot Fraser for letting us know what the situation is. Very interesting to know.
Anonymous
05-04-05, 05:48 PM
I suppose we should be grateful its at least easier to squeeze a few things through the MOT :D
I'm sure the police would also wish everything was a level playing field as then it would be much clearer, but harder on us MOT wise, Ive no doubt
I get what your saying Patch, its odd that there are discrepancies between MOT and Construction and Use.
Thanks for the info Fraser :D
Move to biking issues???
Thanks for the information, always good to have someone on the inside.
Out of interest, has anyone actually been pulled for a race can? If so what was said?
Patch,
You are never happy.....
i was ince :D
The legislation relating to construction and Use has not changed....it is still the same.....
Perhaps you could ask those in the know what exact legislation they refer to, by Act and section number. It would be interesting to know from where their police get the power
as i said, this is the police view not an MOT view....if there are contradictions then that is for the goverment to take up....the purpose of the thread is to give someone an insight to how the police view the situation.
And my post represents the view of the punter. If I have a silencer fitted which has been subject to inspection by a certified MOT tester and found to be compliant how would your colleagues deal with a nutter such as me who challenged them to take me to court over it.
..if your not happy with the content of this thread then feel free to ignore it...
No desire to ignore it I am genuinely interested in all perpectives, after all as Sun Tze says in his work The Art of War - "Know your Enemy as you know yourself"
Happy biking :wink:
Always :D
northwind
05-04-05, 07:51 PM
See, I feel sorry for the Police, being landed in this situation... can't make the job any easier can it?
can i ask a question fraizer ?
do you have a tinted visor, small plate or a race can ? he he he
cheers for finding out for us all BTW.
moved to biking issues, bit more appropriate there
Its great in it.
Thats why i dont faff around with all this baffle stuff. I have race can, small plate. If i get done i get done simple. The officers are doing thier job, rightly or wrongly, well rightly. At the end of the day, no its not the end of the world that we have a race can, and yes there are more heniuos(sp?) crimes, but a law is a law no matter how silly, and if you break it and get causght, then tough titty!
However, what Fraser and patch say just highlights the complicatedness of it all, and that sometimes, legslation/rule changes conflict with each other.
As KeithD's sig says, its all bolloz init, and you cant say fairer than that.
Captain Nemo
06-04-05, 08:19 AM
See, I feel sorry for the Police, being landed in this situation... can't make the job any easier can it?
yeah........me too..
not!
breakinthelawbreakinthelaw...
Ceri JC
06-04-05, 08:56 AM
Cheers for that Fraser, although most of it was fairly obvious, I'm sure it has helped clear some points up for people EG, I didn't know if you had a 6 digit registration number, you could legally have smaller plates, albeit of a given size.
Just out of interest on the matter of race/illegal exhausts (I mean out and out illegal ones- not baffleable ones with the baffle removed), what doe people do re: insurance? Will your insurer issue you a quote/policy, even if you declare it? Surely if you have an (undeclared) illegal exhaust, it's a sure-fire way for them to get out of paying out (as technically it's a performance modification, as well as an aesthetic one, you can sort of see their point)?
Do you just insure it as a stock can, or perhaps the road legal version of your illegal can? Perhaps the insurers will happily insure an illegal can?
I have little interest in changing my can- I'm just intrigued...
Its great in it.
Thats why i dont faff around with all this baffle stuff. I have race can, small plate. If i get done i get done simple. The officers are doing thier job, rightly or wrongly, well rightly. At the end of the day, no its not the end of the world that we have a race can, and yes there are more heniuos(sp?) crimes, but a law is a law no matter how silly, and if you break it and get causght, then tough titty!
However, what Fraser and patch say just highlights the complicatedness of it all, and that sometimes, legslation/rule changes conflict with each other.
As KeithD's sig says, its all bolloz init, and you cant say fairer than that.
spot on viney.
Cheers for that Fraser, although most of it was fairly obvious, I'm sure it has helped clear some points up for people EG, I didn't know if you had a 6 digit registration number, you could legally have smaller plates, albeit of a given size.
Just out of interest on the matter of race/illegal exhausts (I mean out and out illegal ones- not baffleable ones with the baffle removed), what doe people do re: insurance? Will your insurer issue you a quote/policy, even if you declare it? Surely if you have an (undeclared) illegal exhaust, it's a sure-fire way for them to get out of paying out (as technically it's a performance modification, as well as an aesthetic one, you can sort of see their point)?
Do you just insure it as a stock can, or perhaps the road legal version of your illegal can? Perhaps the insurers will happily insure an illegal can?
I have little interest in changing my can- I'm just intrigued...
well my origional can was scratched up, and i took it to a dealer who said he could replace it with a standard one for 600 quid, or one made my another company for 200 quid.
how was i supposed to know it was a race can ? :wink:
Ceri JC
06-04-05, 11:36 AM
well my origional can was scratched up, and i took it to a dealer who said he could replace it with a standard one for 600 quid, or one made my another company for 200 quid.
how was i supposed to know it was a race can ? :wink:
Yes, I may have an "undeclared" non-standard (albeit not race) replacement exhaust on my car. How exactly am I supposed to know? I took it to a garage and they charged me for a replacement. Am I suppose to jack it up and crawl underneath to take a look? :)
Oh come on gang........ Talk about making mountains out of molehills.... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
You technowaffle-heads are causing huge migrains amoungst us mere mortals of the engineering and 'dabbling' world. Your convo's on simple things like cans are driving me potty...... :roll:
"NOT FOR ROAD USE" - Legal yes or no
Is it that hard to say they are illegal or legal??????????????? :?: :?: :?:
Confirmation here would be appreciated by all members of the 'sane' human biking race............... :D
Cracking Migrane
AKA
Splosh
xxxxx
Carsick
06-04-05, 01:25 PM
"NOT FOR ROAD USE" - Legal yes or no
Is it that hard to say they are illegal or legal??????????????? :?: :?: :?:
Exactly as it says on the tin.
Not for road use means illegal and will not pass an MOT.
Fraser said that in his original post.
fraser01
06-04-05, 05:50 PM
can i ask a question fraizer ?
do you have a tinted visor, small plate or a race can ? he he he
cheers for finding out for us all BTW.
No, no and no......
anymore questions :D
and bikageboy...you welcome.......... :wink:
Jelster
06-04-05, 05:55 PM
can i ask a question fraizer ?
do you have a tinted visor, small plate or a race can ? he he he
cheers for finding out for us all BTW.
No, no and no......
anymore questions :D
and bikageboy...you welcome.......... :wink:
Most coppers I have met admit to having dark visors (they actually agree that they are better) and sometimes "non standard" exhausts. But even the dark visor thing is ridiculous; as far as I am aware, you may have up to a 20% tint on your visor, but there is no legislation to cover how dark my sunglasses can be when I ride/drive...... Now that's silly !
.
northwind
06-04-05, 06:09 PM
Definately... It's nonsense like that that must drive the cops mental... if I didn't use my dark visor on winter's mornings I'd be a danger- shades just dpn't work as well- and to their credit both times I was stopped this year the traffic cops gave me no grief at all over that.
fraser01
06-04-05, 06:11 PM
can i ask a question fraizer ?
do you have a tinted visor, small plate or a race can ? he he he
cheers for finding out for us all BTW.
No, no and no......
anymore questions :D
and bikageboy...you welcome.......... :wink:
Most coppers I have met admit to having dark visors (they actually agree that they are better) and sometimes "non standard" exhausts. But even the dark visor thing is ridiculous; as far as I am aware, you may have up to a 20% tint on your visor, but there is no legislation to cover how dark my sunglasses can be when I ride/drive...... Now that's silly !
.
Thats right mate, i have my own views on the kit, and if you know me and have had time to chat to me in person then that will become apparent, obviously i have to be careful what advice i give out on the forum as peeps know what i do for a living...wouldnt want to give them false information, but yes i understand what your saying about the visors and exhausts.... but sun glasses you can just take off....bit more difficult for a visor....however if the visor is up and your wearing sunnies then they have to comply with the legislation....i.e be shatterproof etc.....
can i ask a question fraizer ?
do you have a tinted visor, small plate or a race can ? he he he
cheers for finding out for us all BTW.
No, no and no......
anymore questions :D
and bikageboy...you welcome.......... :wink:
Most coppers I have met admit to having dark visors (they actually agree that they are better) and sometimes "non standard" exhausts. But even the dark visor thing is ridiculous; as far as I am aware, you may have up to a 20% tint on your visor, but there is no legislation to cover how dark my sunglasses can be when I ride/drive...... Now that's silly !
.
Thats right mate, i have my own views on the kit, and if you know me and have had time to chat to me in person then that will become apparent, obviously i have to be careful what advice i give out on the forum as peeps know what i do for a living...wouldnt want to give them false information, but yes i understand what your saying about the visors and exhausts.... but sun glasses you can just take off....bit more difficult for a visor....however if the visor is up and your wearing sunnies then they have to comply with the legislation....i.e be shatterproof etc.....
really ? i never knew that.
Couerdelion
06-04-05, 06:50 PM
Yeah was told about the sunglasses by the instructors when doing the CBT.
I have both an illegal exhaust and sometimes a visor. But I minimise my chances of gettng pulled by carrying a clear visor and by riding sensibly.
The only times I have been stopped by the police has been at the docks on my way to and from Ireland. Once cause my number plate had dropped off and once for looking suspicious I guess. They had a look round the motorbike but even though the exhaust says 'Not for road use' the police never mentioned it. The ART exhaust is loud though and trying to start the bike in the Customs shed without it making too much noise is hard :-)
Im about to become an enforcer of the law and while i changed my race can for a road legal baffled one, my plate is slightly smaller than standard. I understand that instructors of bikesafes and ridewells turn a blind eye to these when instructing as it would discourage many riders from attending these sessions. I use a tinted insert rather than a tinted visor, purely because i dont like carrying a spare everywhere i go.
Red ones
06-04-05, 08:12 PM
Like Couerdelion I too have an Art can. I could be picky and say, "What if I grind the 'Not for Road Use' off?"
I'm not too fussed about having a standard sized plate, it's on a curvy and doesn't look like a sail. But I love my Art and take the view that as long as I don't act the tw@ I shouldn't get pulled. That philosophy has largely worked in a car (except for Gatso's) - When I have been pulled in a car I have got away with whatever I was doing - the worst being a producer following speeding - thankfully they didn't try sticking a speed on me (I was tanking it on a B road at the time, they dropped their argument when I explained I was driving a diesel Austin Maestro, I somehow forgot to tell them about the rather aggressive turbo on the Perkins engine! It was my Dad's car - he laughed when he found out - I think he was a little proud of me!)
Similarly I don't open the throttle too much in built up areas as that is asking for trouble. Get your road positioning right, show that you understand hazard perception and that you respect other users and local inhabitants and you seem to be unnoticed, or better still left alone. (I think the latter is better as it highlights that some of us are sensible and think as we ride)
Like Couerdelion I too have an Art can. I could be picky and say, "What if I grind the 'Not for Road Use' off?"
I'm not too fussed about having a standard sized plate, it's on a curvy and doesn't look like a sail. But I love my Art and take the view that as long as I don't act the tw@ I shouldn't get pulled.
Totally agree with that, my can is illegal too, but i dont ride like a loony in the city, nice high gear to save on fuel.
If a police car rolls by, clutch in throttle off :lol: :lol:
Quick question for fraser, my visor is illegal, police folk dont seem to mind to mind it, but just incase, what if my visor is up?
Is it still illegal to have a tinted visor but not using it?
Fraser
perhaps you could just run us through the fiasco regarding plain visors up/down used with sunglasses, prescription plain specs, prescription tinted specs, prescription sunglasses, prescription reacto-lite specs etc.
OK, OK, a bit of a wind up, but seriously, I've been searching for chapter and verse but can't find it written anywhere.
I do indeed wear prescription plain, tinted, full sunglass and reactions specs.
ive been thinking ?
shouldnt we have a section alongside biking issues called "fraisers corner" ? our resident policeman answers all your questions ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
hall13uk
07-04-05, 12:04 AM
ive been thinking ?
shouldnt we have a section alongside biking issues called "fraisers corner" ? our resident policeman answers all your questions ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
thats a good idea :thumbsup:
now he will never get a rest from work again :twisted: (evil laugh)
Ceri JC
08-04-05, 11:41 AM
now he will never get a rest from work again :twisted: (evil laugh)
He can always claim being here is work, good PR and all that. :wink:
wyrdness
08-04-05, 11:43 AM
now he will never get a rest from work again :twisted: (evil laugh)
He can always claim being here is work, good PR and all that. :wink:
I guess that it could be considered as community policing.
Spiderman
08-04-05, 03:19 PM
now he will never get a rest from work again :twisted: (evil laugh)
He can always claim being here is work, good PR and all that. :wink:
I guess that it could be considered as community policing.
And maybe even worth a bit of overtime? :lol:
I agree that we should have a Legal Questions section tho.
I'm sure Fraser has better things to do than answer the same old questions over and over and over and over again. Most new riders/ site users are often asking the same questions...especially as the SV seems to be such a natural choice for those on their first big bike or those returning to biking.
I know my plate is smaller than it should be, but only very slightly. The cans legal when the baffle is in and i use the film inserts in my visors so i hope to be just onthe right side of the law if i get stopped.
I filtered down Muswell Hill the other day...over s olid white line cos there are roadworks at the bottom of the hill.... saw a marked car ahead and acted as if i was on my test (best behaiour / best riding) as i pulled up behind them. He waved me past....as if to say 'its ok...cross the solid white...i can see you are being sensible.'
result...gave him a :thumbsup: as i passed :D
Thank god for the likes of Fraser.... i really appreciate having a frienly knowledgeable ear on this forum to keep us all from breaking laws unknowingly. Nice one <doffs cap appreciatevly>
What are the implications of this then?
Take one race can stamped "not for road use" - Akrapovic for example, drill out the pop rivets in the end band. Reverse band inside out, use etching kit to etch on BS number, polish up and re rivet - good as new!!
Biker Biggles
08-04-05, 10:30 PM
Under the new zero tolerance of anything some politician can get publicity out of rules you gotta be looking at 5 years hard labour for that :twisted:
so here is another question.
what if i get caught with a racecan.
i get a fine and a rectification notice.
once i put the standard can on again, get it checked out.
what happens if i put the race can on again and get caught again ?
Cloggsy
10-04-05, 11:12 AM
so here is another question.
what if i get caught with a racecan.
i get a fine and a rectification notice.
once i put the standard can on again, get it checked out.
what happens if i put the race can on again and get caught again ?
I think its a 3 strikes & your out scheme... When you're given a rectification notice, it goes down on record - if you get another one for the same thing, thats 2. The third time its a fine & points...
raymond smith
10-04-05, 09:51 PM
sorry frazer, but wot about bsau stamped cans like my wolf :roll:
wheelnut
10-04-05, 11:41 PM
It says here:
Warning, A test certificate is not evidence that a vehicle is in a satisfactory mechanical condition :shock:
Written on the test certificate :P
I think its one of them daft laws that civil servant people make up to justify their jobs.
I am fighting with the Tachograph rules and the new working time directive for mobile workers :?
one contradicts the other, and the punishment is death, or a big fine :shock:
northwind
11-04-05, 12:10 AM
Nah, the MOT's not a service or mechanical checkup- it's perfectly possible to have one pass that's got something grievously wrong with it. They put that on to stop idiots buying cars or bikes with wet ink on the MOT and assuming that it must be in good nick (like my ex did)
OK here is my understanding of what is and is not the state of the law based on research since first commenting on this thread. I do not claim that this information is absolutely correct but it is an interperatation of what I can find.
The EU set standards for noise and emissions and any "EU" approved silencer is marked with either an E number or the correct BS number. Ammendments to UK construction and use legislation made it an offence for any retailer to sell a silencer not marked either with an approved E/BS number, the words "not for road use" or as being for bikes that date pre 1985.
The MOT test was ammended to check that the silencer was correctly stamped however this contravenes international trade laws and was ammended last year to a check that the silencer is not stamped Not for Road use and that the noise level is acceptable when compared to other similar bikes.
It is perfectly legal for anyone to purchase a silencer which has an acceptable noise level from say the USA or Aus and fit it to a bike in the UK if it has no stamp.
As far as I can discover (if I am wrong I apologise) there is no law which states that a bike silencer has to be stamped. I may be wrong and so I would ask that any of our boys in blue check and reproduce the ACT and wording of the Act that would make it an offence.
So the situation as I see it is that the police can stop you for a loud exhaust if they hear it and form an opinion that it is louder than is acceptable. They can then issue you with a recitification notice and a £30 on the spot fine. If you accept the fine you have no appeal process. however if your exhaust is baffled and is genuinely not "not for road use" then there is a legal challenge open to you.
Note filing off the not for road use will get you in serious trouble if you then claimed that the silencer was legal.
Where do I sit on this? I have after market silencers fitted to the GS and VFR they are Remus have baffles and neither has any stamp as they are both "grey" imports.
fraser01
11-04-05, 03:00 PM
OK here is my understanding of what is and is not the state of the law based on research since first commenting on this thread. I do not claim that this information is absolutely correct but it is an interperatation of what I can find.
The EU set standards for noise and emissions and any "EU" approved silencer is marked with either an E number or the correct BS number. Ammendments to UK construction and use legislation made it an offence for any retailer to sell a silencer not marked either with an approved E/BS number, the words "not for road use" or as being for bikes that date pre 1985.
The MOT test was ammended to check that the silencer was correctly stamped however this contravenes international trade laws and was ammended last year to a check that the silencer is not stamped Not for Road use and that the noise level is acceptable when compared to other similar bikes.
It is perfectly legal for anyone to purchase a silencer which has an acceptable noise level from say the USA or Aus and fit it to a bike in the UK if it has no stamp.
As far as I can discover (if I am wrong I apologise) there is no law which states that a bike silencer has to be stamped. I may be wrong and so I would ask that any of our boys in blue check and reproduce the ACT and wording of the Act that would make it an offence.
So the situation as I see it is that the police can stop you for a loud exhaust if they hear it and form an opinion that it is louder than is acceptable. They can then issue you with a recitification notice and a £30 on the spot fine. If you accept the fine you have no appeal process. however if your exhaust is baffled and is genuinely not "not for road use" then there is a legal challenge open to you.
Note filing off the not for road use will get you in serious trouble if you then claimed that the silencer was legal.
Where do I sit on this? I have after market silencers fitted to the GS and VFR they are Remus have baffles and neither has any stamp as they are both "grey" imports.
You are correct what you have said Patch, you are always one for indepth research...but although i do not want to insult peoples intellegence i also dont want to confuse people,
You do not legally have to have a BSA or E marking stamped on the exhaust, however as you stated all, the supply of exhausts in the UK must have these markings...i have been told that there are no changes yet in relation to Construction and Use legislation, the only reason that you would not have these markings is if 1. it had stamped not for road use or 2. it was imported outside of the UK....
s.1motorcycle noise act 1987 and regs 3,4 &5 motorcycle silencer and exhaust systems regs 1995
in relation to point 2, the exhaust once fitted will have to conform to the same noise level restrictions already set in the UK...if it does not then this will be illegal (and if a PC thinks that it exceed this then he can issue a VDRS) So basically the majority of people..they will have e markings...if you dont you will be able to prove this with a doc production....
(as i said patch originally i will let you all know if/when the legislation changes...we are sent ammendments..)
I have spoken with my local MOT inspector who states that the laws may have changed MOT wise but they are only bringing them into line with CU legislation.... he stated previously before it was changed someone could pass an MOT with an illegal no. plate and then ride out onto the road and get stuck on by the police....this has now been ammended and so no.plates are part of the inspection....he did say that there are alot of grey areas but these will be ironed out in time.....
I am going to see the MOT guy in the near future to discuss the changes in more detail...and see how that differs from CU leg....over a cuppa of course :D
Hope this helps.. :wink:
Sorry been busy on nights....so i will try catch up with any other questions later..
Regards
Fraser
Flamin_Squirrel
11-04-05, 03:11 PM
:thumbsup:
Dicky Ticker
13-04-05, 02:00 PM
Just to put the cat amongst the pidgeons When your bike was given type approval the levels for the silencers were as follows
Silencer------E4 0192
90dB @ 4500rpm
These are the figures that came off my VIN sticker on the nearside chassis
So, if I don,t have a can fitted that conforms to these specs is my bike illegal ????
Or looking at the other side of the coin as the sticker is on the bike already why do I need one on the can and unless the police have a calibrated decibel meter[ only one in the Essex Traffic Div which hasn't been used for 2yrs] ThereforE any judgement is down to the individual officers "ear" I doubt if anybody can have ears so in tune to as be decibel
calibrated The whole thing MOT/POLICE/LAW is a farce that any good scolicitor would rip to shreads in court
ALL THESE QUESTIONS ------HAS ANYBODY ACTUALLY BEEN DONE?
fraser01
13-04-05, 03:50 PM
*Fraser sits on the ledge and coos....*
Did we get out of bed the wrong side this morning?
the 90db info on the VIN is more than likely the max recommended for the particular type of motorcycle, as decided by the manufacturer, also that does'nt stop you changing your exhaust......off the top of my head..so forgive me if i am out..83db was the limit according to construction and use, shedule A i believe. As far as i am aware not even an MOT will measure the decibels and it will be up to the MOT inspectors decision as to whether something is too noisy. As i said this is why i am going to see the MOT guy, so that i can find out exactly what VOSA are saying and how it differs from C&U legislation.
BTW i always advise that you seek legal advice...best practice.... :)
...and its not the question has anyone been done, its the fact people want to know, the people demand answers..... :wink:
Good morning,good day and good night!
Fraser :P
Dicky Ticker
13-04-05, 06:25 PM
A good point raised by Fraser, even the VOSA test station I asked could not give a 100% fact answer as one set of regulations seem to contradict the next ammended set,so although we may be legal under the one regulation we are illegal under another
As a matter of interest I took my bike to the local MOT place today and asked if it would pass the MOT with the Wolf exhaust on[Unbaffled]
The reply 50/50 But if I re-instal the end baffle 100%
As a lot of aftermarket exhausts operate the removable baffle system i am of the mind this is the way to go
Personally I keep mine under the tail and although I run with the baffle removed, if I get stopped I can refit it in 30seconds it will be up to the discreation of the officer whether I am nicked or not
Judging by the number of SV'ers I have met I think more than a few
run illegal exhausts You pays your money and take your chance
so here is another question.
what if i get caught with a racecan.
i get a fine and a rectification notice.
once i put the standard can on again, get it checked out.
what happens if i put the race can on again and get caught again ?
Ok, soz for bringing this up again but I'm interested in this one. What exactly can happen if you get stopped for having a racecan? I'm not particularly knowledgeable on this one. Whats a rectification notice?
I believe..... Could be wrong.... Thats its recorded against your registration so if you are caught again for the same thing it goes further but I've never met anyone who has so don't know the penalty
Whats a rectification notice?
You still get reported for having a noisy can, but if you take part in the rectification scheme, you get 14 days to get your bike road legal and have it inspected by a DOT garage.
You have to get the rectification notice stamped by the garage and then you send this to the cop shop.
If you fail to do this within 14 days, you'll get summonsed/fined/etc for the can.
If you comply with the rectification notice, any report of you and your noisy can gets scrapped.
So, in theory, you could just bung your standard can back on and get the bike inspected, job done. Get home, and put your noisy can back on. However, next time you get stopped, there will be a record of the initial rectification notice inssued and there's a decent chance you'll just get reported without the rectification scheme being offered a second time.
So, in theory, you could just bung your standard can back on and get the bike inspected, job done. Get home, and put your noisy can back on. However, next time you get stopped, there will be a record of the initial rectification notice inssued and there's a decent chance you'll just get reported without the rectification scheme being offered a second time.
Ok, so say this happens, are we talking fines or points? And if so how much/many?
Cheers for the info!
Couerdelion
25-04-05, 06:21 PM
AFAIK it's a £30 fine. No points.
AFAIK it's a £30 fine. No points.
I think so too.
If your bike has a history of noisy cans, you could get a summons and maybe points too!
busasean
03-05-05, 09:29 PM
got a £30 fine for no. plate yesterday due to the letters not being the correct space and font, even though the plate itself is a legal size. yes its illegal and yes its tough titty, but.......... how does it affect road safety? as i said to the copper, its a shame that they dont get their priorities sorted, when we were burgled last yr, no one would attend untill the following day, which was a bit late had the scrote still been in the place. still,.... i dont suppose it makes them any money and it involves doing some work! Traffic coppers?? parasites the bloody lot of them!
northwind
03-05-05, 10:45 PM
Definition of parasites being "People who do their jobs", obviously.
busasean
04-05-05, 06:58 PM
yes the same parasites who did their job and caught the scrote who burgled our place(not), who caught the people who stole my 1st new bike(not), who gave the guy in the stolen car who totalled my 4 week old zxr a producer and then let him go, even though he was wanted for 13 car thefts and the car was on the pnc as stolen for 43 days. (yes really!!!) the same parasites who you read about in the papers every day as doing their jobs. by the way i'm not anti police as my brother is a copper and his wife is a chief inspector. i'm anti traffic police and very anti money collecting instead of dealing with the issues that the public need sorting!!!
drumwrecker
04-05-05, 08:24 PM
If your vehicle is illegal in any way you shouldn’t be on the road. Mostly we either get away with it or get a notice of intended prosecution from the police. But, and this is the big but, what happens if you are involved in an accident and the police are involved and your vehicle is illegal on some matter or other. This gives your insurer the opportunity to walk away from your claim and only deal with their legal obligations which may include third party damage. So what is the point of intentionally putting yourself at risk by using small number plated, loud exhausts etc?
Spiderman
04-05-05, 09:25 PM
yes the same parasites who did their job and caught the scrote who burgled our place(not), who caught the people who stole my 1st new bike(not), who gave the guy in the stolen car who totalled my 4 week old zxr a producer and then let him go, even though he was wanted for 13 car thefts and the car was on the pnc as stolen for 43 days. (yes really!!!) the same parasites who you read about in the papers every day as doing their jobs. by the way i'm not anti police as my brother is a copper and his wife is a chief inspector. i'm anti traffic police and very anti money collecting instead of dealing with the issues that the public need sorting!!!
I agree that traffic cops are pretty much tax collectors for minor infringments most of the time and that just sucks ass as far as i'm concerned.
However the individuals who choose to be in traffic must see some unbeilevable stuff too so they need to have these draconian powers at hand to dish out.
Shame a lot of them are jumped up ****s wth an attitude on a power trip and choose to apply the letter of the law for silly things. :(
Most cops agree that loud cans and dark visors are indeed safer but they dont make the stoooopid laws. Its the prats that we are supposed to vote for tomorrow who do. And i guarantee you this.....any shower of ****e that get in will contine to raise money off all road users in this manner they may dress it up this way or that but they will never gladly give up all the revenue they raise from it. :evil:
It is disgusting the way real crimes against people are ignored at the favour of 'crimes' that will earn them some money.
Burglary and street robbery are some of the worst and most personal crimes (aside from rape of course) and they get very little attention. Their attitude is more like "well, sort out the insurance and get over it. Bye now"
:(
so what will police do to me at worest? with a full race system, clearly only for the track? and what are they likly to do?
so what will police do to me at worest? with a full race system, clearly only for the track? and what are they likly to do?
Either a £30 fine, three points on your licence or a rectification notice. And if you've seriously p*ssed them off maybe all three :lol: .
.
what? u can get a fine and points? i thourght just a notice was all they could give u? seeing as they cant prove it (tho by ear i think u can mine)
so what will police do to me at worest? with a full race system, clearly only for the track? and what are they likly to do?
the spelling police would lock you up.
Dicky Ticker
09-05-05, 05:06 PM
Traffic cops may seem to be B******* but please dont forget they are often the first on the scene of fatal and serious accidents and as somebody
who has been there although it be many many moons ago it does not make a pleasant job. Being honest I think giving a ticking off is a waste of time with todays yob culture and some of the worst yobs drive expensive cars and wear suits Everybody is reading this post and if you havent
realised that illegal cans and plates can get you nicked you have only one person to blame so stop complaining
Flamin_Squirrel
09-05-05, 05:33 PM
He wasn't complaining, he was asking for clarification on what punishment to expect if caught.
Dicky Ticker
09-05-05, 05:58 PM
The answer is in the word " If " dont do it and there is no if Flaunt the law
expect to be caught and accept the punishment My own exhaust isnt 100% but I know the risk and IMHO providing you are sensible the chance of being prosecuted is very slim so I take that chance as it seems many others do on here
Saftey in numbers theory???
Flamin_Squirrel
09-05-05, 06:31 PM
](*,)
busasean
10-05-05, 09:27 PM
i've got a brother and sister in law who are both coppers, my best mate is a fireman and another good mate is a nurse, all off whom deal with road accidents, but its funny that none of them can ever recall dealing with an accident caused either directly or indirectly by a loud can or a small no. plate!!! yes they are illegal and yes if you get caught and nicked, then really you shouldnt complain. however 99.9 % of coppers use common sense and have a quiet word, which leaves traffic coppers. hmmm........ common sense and discretion? maybe not eh.the law is the law, which is fair enough but the problem is that there is no consistancy and IMHO the punishment doesnt fit the (?)crime. I think most people want serious crime sorted rather than petty rubbish like this. EASY, QUICK RESULTS WHICH JUST HAPPEN TO MAKE MONEY, NO SURELY NOT!
Jelster
10-05-05, 11:07 PM
Saftey in numbers theory???
If there is a number of you 1 or 2 police are going to have a difficult time dealing with you all, so they tend to give you verbal warnings unless you are riding like a real pratt....
.
i only asked as i cant get a legal system for an SV400S, and theres no way in earth im riding without the noisiest system i can get my hands on after my accident.
northwind
11-05-05, 05:02 PM
Are you sure an SV650 system won't bolt on? The level of interchangability is huge...
yeah the systems are exactualy the same im pretty sure, but theres is no way im riding with a stock exhaust system and seeing as the one i have is the best money can buy (plz dont have an arguement, its gd enough for me) then im keeping it, was just wondering what they could do me for at worst.
Dont know what system i have, maybe u lot know from the pics
http://groups.msn.com/Bikerzz/shoebox.msnw?Page=1
its real carbon cans not just covered and its unmarked totaly! so dont know anything about it, but its clearly illegal on tickover i recon! :lol:
northwind
12-05-05, 06:58 PM
Can't get your image to work but I reckon it's most likely a japanese import Kenz Sport system, if it's a full twin system for the carbed bike with carbon cans.
Anonymous
15-05-05, 01:34 PM
Just a query about exhausts:
I bought a new Yoshi Cyclone EEC - this is E1 marked and road legal with baffles in to meet the noise constraints (I can't be bothered taking them out, it sounds good enough) - would this get through an MOT fine without having to put the stock system back?
Cheers
Martin
MarkSVS
11-06-05, 09:39 AM
Good to see nothings changed since I departed for the land of Gixer!
This is my first visit since 11th Nov 2004 and you're still debating the same stuff!
Agree with most of what's been said: if it's illegal and you get caught just take it on the chin. I've got a tiny plate, the world's loudest race can and black visor and I've never been pulled because I refuse to ride like a **** in built up areas. Loads of coppers have seen my bike and none have ever given me hassle. To be honest, I think most of them are too intelligent and have better things to do than worry about cans, plates and visors. Thankfully round here they are more bothered with doped up Barry in his Nova and his attempt to qualify...
Miss my SV and the fun it gave me. My 750 is a bit of a beast and, if I'm truthful, too much for the road. If you're thinking of upgrading because you want more power...save your money!
got a question for ya.
is it against the law to have headphones in and listen to music under your helmet while riding ?
im asking this question on behalf of a friend btw.
Godikus
11-06-05, 06:26 PM
got a question for ya.
is it against the law to have headphones in and listen to music under your helmet while riding ?
im asking this question on behalf of a friend btw.
I think it's only legal to have one earpice in.
got a question for ya.
is it against the law to have headphones in and listen to music under your helmet while riding ?
im asking this question on behalf of a friend btw.
I think it's only legal to have one earpice in.
i don't think there's any laws concerning that whatsoever
wheelnut
11-06-05, 06:57 PM
I can't be bothered to reply to this post :P
WelshWop
18-06-05, 05:54 PM
Ive just been fined for my small plate :( Time for a legal one instead.
Ive just been fined for my small plate :( Time for a legal one instead.
The "but it came with the bike, Officer" excuse didn't work then? :roll:
You got away with the cans? :shock:
WelshWop
05-07-05, 12:43 PM
No the 'It came with the bike, officer' didnt work :(
A few days before i was stopped the 'Not for road use' band fell off and was replaced with a BSA mot standard thingy.
Was funny watching the officer on his knees looking for the 'Not for road use' as he's talking to himself saying "i know its here somewhere, i know a race can when i hear it" :D :D
kwak zzr
31-07-05, 10:12 PM
plod proof badges :lol: i think i'm gona saw the end off my removable baffle pipe and just fit the end bit! so it look like its fitted :D
BaggaZee
01-08-05, 01:34 PM
Ive just been fined for my small plate :( Time for a legal one instead.
Out of interest, how small was it and was it in a daft font?
I'm getting sick & tired of looking at the huge one on the back of my bike and other posts are beginning to convince me that I could get away with a 7x5. :?:
northwind
01-08-05, 06:22 PM
I think mine is 7x5, either that or 7.5 x 5.5, and I've never had any problems with it- despite being stopped a couple of times for other things. It's noticably smaller but it's not stupidly small, and the text is something like 90% of the normal size and in the standard fon-t juts with smaller borders and margins.
hall13uk
01-08-05, 07:47 PM
so what would most people say was a acceptatable size for a plate, ie not taking the pee but not standard either.
what he said................... =D>i want to know as well :wink:
so what would most people say was a acceptatable size for a plate, ie not taking the pee but not standard either.
I think mine is 7x5, either that or 7.5 x 5.5, and I've never had any problems with it- despite being stopped a couple of times for other things. It's noticably smaller but it's not stupidly small
I'd guess either 7x5 or 7.5x5.5 is an acceptable shrink without taking the pee http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/images/smiles/eusa_think.gif
hall13uk
01-08-05, 09:57 PM
what he said................... =D>i want to know as well :wink: the two jims need to know :wink:
northwind
01-08-05, 10:18 PM
7.5 by 5.5 looks like this:
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/northwind-frombehind.jpg
(any excuse to show off the bike!)
6x4 looks like this:
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/northwind-svsplate.jpg
IMO looks a bit daft- seems like I'm used to decent sized plates, so really small now looks as bad to me as really big.
Is it legal to have a motorcycle plate with the "GB" text and Euro stars on the left side of the plate?
Dicky Ticker
12-01-06, 06:08 PM
YES
does the plate have to be wider to make space for the "GB" strip otherwise the letters are squeezed together?
Spiderman
12-01-06, 10:07 PM
a good site to answer these questions peeps http://www.malplates.co.uk/plates.php
I bought mine from them. Its a "show plate" and a flexi 7x5.
DanAbnormal
24-02-06, 10:20 AM
I think most police officers these days are pretty fair (well the one's I've met). I've worn a dark visor and not been done for it despite being pulled by police for routine checks for stolen bikes etc. They also checked my can over which was had the baffle removed and was pretty loud but as it had no markings on it (i.e. did not say not for road use) they said it was fine. I tend not to wear shades anymore, I nearly lost an ey when I had a crash with sun glasses on. So if it's bright I wear my visor. I'd rather pay the fine than loose an eye thanks.
Good thread! :)
hall13uk
24-02-06, 10:26 AM
i think my plate maybe getting smaller :twisted:
DanAbnormal
01-03-06, 08:58 PM
i think my plate maybe getting smaller :twisted:
Damn your plate is shrinking too?!! I reckon it's this cold weather! :twisted:
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.