Very interesting reading concerning accidents

[Ceri JC]

Lifted from:

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html

Some very interesting reading, I recommend you check out the link above for the full lot. Apologies if this has been posted before, I've not seen it and I'm sure some other newbies will benefit from reading it. US data, but a lot is still pertinent to the UK.

A few select ones:

Although the majority of the accident-involved motorcycle riders are male (96%), the female motorcycles riders are significantly overrepresented in the accident data.

^Very interesting. I wonder if the usual femal driver discount applies to bikes as well as cars?

Craftsmen, laborers, and students comprise most of the accident-involved motorcycle riders. Professionals, sales workers, and craftsmen are underrepresented and laborers, students and unemployed are overrepresented in the accidents.

Now you can see why they are so particular about your job when insuring you...

The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents.

Still think CBT ->125 is superior to DAS?

27. The typical motorcycle accident allows the motorcyclist just less than 2 seconds to complete all collision avoidance action.

If that's the case, riding with you brake covered isn't such a minor bonus is it? More like a 20% decrease in time before you start to brake! :shock:

Motorcycle modifications such as those associated with the semi-chopper or cafe racer are definitely overrepresented in accidents.

Cloggsy, watch out! :D

Safety helmet use caused no attenuation of critical traffic sounds, no limitation of precrash visual field, and no fatigue or loss of attention; no element of accident causation was related to helmet use.

coupled with,

The typical motorcycle pre-crash lines-of-sight to the traffic hazard portray no contribution of the limits of peripheral vision; more than three-fourths of all accident hazards are within 45deg of either side of straight ahead.

Would indicate that even "letterbox" sized visors do not make you more likely to crash than an open face helmet.

Sorry for the long post! Comments?

[Nekkid]

Motorcycle riders with dirt bike experience are significantly underrepresented in the accident data.

Interesting....possibly something to do with being comfortable to really chuck the bike about therefore being better able to avoid collision? Or possibly better braking through a lack of fear of skidding?
Any offroaders care to comment? It might be worth doing an offroad day.

[Ceri JC]

Motorcycle riders with dirt bike experience are significantly underrepresented in the accident data.

Interesting....possibly something to do with being comfortable to really chuck the bike about therefore being better able to avoid collision? Or possibly better braking through a lack of fear of skidding?
Any offroaders care to comment? It might be worth doing an offroad day.

Bike did a bit a while back about how a day of speedway training makes you safer on the roads. Something to do with you not panicking and grabbing fistfulls of everything and coming off, when the back end kicks out.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Some parts I found interesting:

13. Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets.

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me if you've not been seen you've not been seen. Ok it might reduce the frequency that people try to kill you, but it won't stop it. I'd rather always expect cars to pull out on me.

30. The large displacement motorcycles are underrepresented in accidents but they are associated with higher injury severity when involved in accidents.

Makes sense.

[TSM]

Driving a car makes you a safer motorcyclist, possibly because it lets you understand the enemy.
Ummm, eh?


A cheapo $70 helmet offers protection very close to what you get from a $300 helmet with similar coverage.

If you're a frequent passenger and want to be a better one, take a Motorcycle RiderCourse.

[Ceri JC]

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me if you've not been seen you've not been seen. Ok it might reduce the frequency that people try to kill you, but it won't stop it. I'd rather always expect cars to pull out on me.


Same here, the moment you assume cars have seen you, you're a goner. Ride like you're invisible to everything except police and speed cameras (according to the police riders handbook, 1 in 3 motorists will not conciously notice your presence, even if you overtake them :shock: ). I just know that if I wore high vis, I'd get lax :?

[Scooby Drew]

Motorcycle riders with dirt bike experience are significantly underrepresented in the accident data.

Interesting....possibly something to do with being comfortable to really chuck the bike about therefore being better able to avoid collision? Or possibly better braking through a lack of fear of skidding?
Any offroaders care to comment? It might be worth doing an offroad day.

I learnt to ride off road as my folks live on a farm. I learnt to control a slide and not stress out and grab a handful of everything when it ais all going to ****. The first time it happened on my SV in the wet I had not ridden a dirt bike in nearly ten years but my response was automatic and I just rode through it. I had so much fun that I spent the rest of the day doing repeat performances!

Dirt biking teaches you throttle control and feeling for your front brake and I would highly recommend it. Valentino does offroad/supermoto for this reason (he said in a recent interview)

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me if you've not been seen you've not been seen. Ok it might reduce the frequency that people try to kill you, but it won't stop it. I'd rather always expect cars to pull out on me.


Same here, the moment you assume cars have seen you, you're a goner. Ride like you're invisible to everything except police and speed cameras (according to the police riders handbook, 1 in 3 motorists will not conciously notice your presence, even if you overtake them :shock: ). I just know that if I wore high vis, I'd get lax :?

Yeah, but I'll wager that not one motorist out there ever failed to see a liveried police bike, with liveried rider and the blue light coming up behind them... funny that they can see the police rider but miss the non-police riders... Apart from looking a bit dorky, the more someone looks like a police rider the more likely it is they'll be seen. Guy at work rides a white Honda Deauville (he didn't know anything about bikes when he bought it...) and has a fluoro jacket and white helmet... says people are forver pulling over and slowing down to let him pass, simply because they think it's a copper.

Right now I ride in black everything and never assume anyone has seen me... though the next helmet I get will be a white one, and a fluoro jacket is looking more and more tempting... :shock:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Yeah, but I'll wager that not one motorist out there ever failed to see a liveried police bike, with liveried rider and the blue light coming up behind them...

You're on. As a wise man once said, never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

[Mech]

[quote="Ceri JC"][quote=Flamin_Squirrel]Yeah, but I'll wager that not one motorist out there ever failed to see a liveried police bike, with liveried rider and the blue light coming up behind them...

You need to get yourself on one of the Bike Safe courses... it's amazing how invisible even the police riders are, even with the blue lights on...

[Kate]

Driving a car makes you a safer motorcyclist, possibly because it lets you understand the enemy.
Ummm, eh?

Makes sense to me, afterall, if you haven't driven a car, how can you understand/predict what they are doing?

[TSM]

Driving a car makes you a safer motorcyclist, possibly because it lets you understand the enemy.
Ummm, eh?

Makes sense to me, afterall, if you haven't driven a car, how can you understand/predict what they are doing?

True, point taken ](*,)

[BillyC]

Driving a car makes you a safer motorcyclist, possibly because it lets you understand the enemy.
Ummm, eh?

Makes sense to me, afterall, if you haven't driven a car, how can you understand/predict what they are doing?

I agree entirely... one of the main factors that attracts my attention while riding around town and city is to predict any car's possible and capable manouvres. Something I couldn't have done so well without many thousands of miles behind the wheel.

I also think that riding the bike has made me a much much much better car driver.

[Ceri JC]

Yeah, but I'll wager that not one motorist out there ever failed to see a liveried police bike, with liveried rider and the blue light coming up behind them... funny that they can see the police rider but miss the non-police riders... Apart from looking a bit dorky, the more someone looks like a police rider the more likely it is they'll be seen. Guy at work rides a white Honda Deauville (he didn't know anything about bikes when he bought it...) and has a fluoro jacket and white helmet... says people are forver pulling over and slowing down to let him pass, simply because they think it's a copper.


Sadly, an admitedly small minority even manage to ignore that: I saw a documentary following an ambulance crew round and it was shocking to see some drivers didn't notice them coming up when they didn't have the sirens on (only lights). That said, if I ever get a bike specifically for commuting, it'll be a white deauville with fluoro strips and I'll wear a high vis jacket and white helmet. Not so much because more people would see me, more that those who do would get out of the way :D

This is due to having seen how effective "dressing like a copper" is at the weekend south wales rideout; local IAM boys out on Pans with fluoro jackets and white helmets. That said, riding at 90ish in the wrong lane and overtaking on double white lines also helped create the impression they were her majesty's finest :wink:

[Nekkid]

I agree that you should always assume you're invisible, but high vis stuff seems to make a huge difference. My commute is partly on the A2 into london, so stop start traffick for a few miles. When I'm wearing hi viz, people actually move over in their lane to give me space to filter. Without it, this is a very, very rare occurence.
I also think that wearing hi viz gets you more respect from cagers as they wont instantly assume you're a hooligan on the basis that you're wearing something which a. makes you look slightly less cool and b. makes you appear safety conscious.
Appearances can, however, be decieving............ :twisted:

[JakeRS]

Motorcycle riders with dirt bike experience are significantly underrepresented in the accident data.

Interesting....possibly something to do with being comfortable to really chuck the bike about therefore being better able to avoid collision? Or possibly better braking through a lack of fear of skidding?
Any offroaders care to comment? It might be worth doing an offroad day.

I can definately agree there.

I've done 15+ sessions at my local motocross project and it's taught me so much control. I had no fear when the rear slid in the rain, or bucked under intense acceleration, or when I slid down the road on my @rse!

Its definately something worth looking into.

[Anonymous]

I've done a lot of trials riding, and I know if I ever need to ride my SV down a river bed, climb a muddy bank and hop over a fallen tree trunk, then I'll be able to do it. You just don't get a lot of that down the A1 though......

Agree with Kate and BillyC - ability to drive a car helps you as a biker, and vice versa. What definitely attracts my attention when I'm in the car is, not so much colour, but movement. So, I personally try to approach all cars I'm going to overtake with a lot of side to side movement - not making a dead straight bee-line at them! Same as seeing someone coming out of a side turning - with all the background colours on the High Street, Hi-Viz clothing and headlights may help, but movement is better at getting their attention.

Finally, sod the limits: when I go past, I go PAST, and back off afterwards!

[K]

Yeah, but I'll wager that not one motorist out there ever failed to see a liveried police bike, with liveried rider and the blue light coming up behind them... funny that they can see the police rider but miss the non-police riders.

I'll take £20 on that. :lol:

Then take some photos of the crash damaged police Transalp we have in the lock-up for a repair estimate. If it wasn't for the amount of valuable equipment on the bike it'd probably be a write-off.

It was a classic car-pulled-put-of-a-junction SMIDSY accident that took the copper out! Broke his ankle too if I recall correctly. :shock:

[iprideaux]

What definitely attracts my attention when I'm in the car is, not so much colour, but movement.
True. I've been commuting Bristol - Swindon these past few weeks. I find that if a cage tries to sit a couple of yards from my **** on the M4, a good weave and wobble (damned crosswinds) soon makes them back off.

I've got the hi-vis stuff as well, warm padded jacket, thin waterproof trousers, £25 the pair from the fruit market. It does seem to encourage better driving from the cages that see you.