Mileage vs Experience

[Ceri JC]

Just a little thought I had last night:

Both discounts from insurance companies and respect from peers seem to come from how long you've been riding/driving, rather than the time actually spent doing it. E.g. matters of age aside (I concede up to a certain point, when their reactions go down hill, older drivers tend to be safer), why is someone who has been riding for 10 years (but actually only clocked up 2000 dry miles a year), deemed to be more experienced than say, someone who has only been riding 2 years, but in all weathers and done 20,000 miles a year?

Not only does the latter individual have more total experience, but their experience is more recent (so more relevant to current road conditions, rules, etc.), and there are fewer "gaps" in their time spent riding, so their development has been constant (eg less time spent getting back to the level they were at, at the end of the last riding season)

Surely the latter's NCB should count for more, not less?

Admiteddly, the second rider does more miles, so is a bigger risk, but they already pay an extra premium for large miles to balance this. Similarly, what if that rider now stops riding as a courier and instead does 2000 recreational miles a year?

Please don't mistake this as the 'young versus old' argument. Imagine that the individuals in the above example are both 40, merely one has been riding since they were 30, the other since they were 38.

I've noticed this respect based on "time since you started", rather than "amount actually done" in other areas, too. E.g. someone proudly says, 'I've been playing guitar for 20 years', rather than 'I've racked up thousands of hours playing the guitar'.

Any comments?

[BillyC]

I agree... nothing is better than miles earnt by sending them under your bum (preferably with a bike in between).

But it's very difficult to certify! We don't all keep personal log books that are checked and verified.

I could've been driving for 20 years, but the only journey may have been to Sainsbury's. Put me on a motorway junction and I'd fall apart.

Perhaps there's comfort in knowing that if you've not had a policy for 2 years, you lose your no claims bonus; or if you haven't passed a test beyond your provisional licence after 5 years, then many companies won't touch you!

[The Mass]

Ceri Mate,

I think they just make the rules up as they go along.
Ask yourself this question, where do they get these rediculous overpriced figures from for insurance?
Someone must make this figure up from somewhere, but where? and how?
Considering that prices vary from one company to the next, what does the governing body or regulators think or do?

It's all me **** anyway, they'll add a tenner onto the price as soon as theh hear your accent, or your postcode, or the fact that Liverpool got through to the Champions League final, and they're a Man U fan???

Take it on the chin mate :roll:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

It works the way it does because you take your insurance cover out for a fixed period of time.

Over a year, person A might be 5 times a greater risk (perhaps in terms of age, NCB, whatever) than person B, but person B might do 5 times the milage. They will pay the same premium because the risk the present to the insurance company is the same, and that's all their interested in. Making sure they've earnt enough money from you by the time you're expected to make a claim.

[Mr Toad]

It works the way it does because you take your insurance cover out for a fixed period of time.

Over a year, person A might be 5 times a greater risk (perhaps in terms of age, NCB, whatever) than person B, but person B might do 5 times the milage. They will pay the same premium because the risk the present to the insurance company is the same, and that's all their interested in. Making sure they've earnt enough money from you by the time you're expected to make a claim.


Not entirely true
You'll get a different quote if you tell the insurance company you're doing 8,000 miles a year, than if you tell 'em 4,000
well I did :cry:

[Balky001]

You have a good point but one person might do 90 miles a day on a dead straight road with light traffic, or you might ride only 20 miles a day but in central London and the 'burbs fast roads - who'd have the most experience?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

It works the way it does because you take your insurance cover out for a fixed period of time.

Over a year, person A might be 5 times a greater risk (perhaps in terms of age, NCB, whatever) than person B, but person B might do 5 times the milage. They will pay the same premium because the risk the present to the insurance company is the same, and that's all their interested in. Making sure they've earnt enough money from you by the time you're expected to make a claim.


Not entirely true
You'll get a different quote if you tell the insurance company you're doing 8,000 miles a year, than if you tell 'em 4,000
well I did :cry:

That's what I meant :wink:

[creamerybutter]

Problem is it is hard to prove how many miles you have done and like someone said where they were done, I know I have done in excess of 20,000 since I have had my licence but that is about as accurate as I can get but I can tell you I have had my licence nearly five years, doesn’t sound like many miles per year but I didn’t have a bike for quite a while after passing my test. You could say I do 10,000 miles a year but could you prove it to an insurance company?

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

Yeah, they have their rules and they don't really account for people who are outside of their "typical" conditions.

I do 20,000 miles a year commuting and the premium is almost identical to putting in that I do 2000 a year... Maybe a balance of more riding experience vs more time at risk?

I'm a far better rider now, riding all week, than I was back when I was just riding at weekends... but I'm riding in much more traffic and I would say I'm more likely to be knocked off now...

Scary that there's nothing that says that you need to do minimum mileage per year. You could have a bike insured and in the garage unridden for 360 days a year, then go out a few times a year when it's sunny, ride like a complete twonk and nearly get yourself and others killed... oh, sorry, I just realised that's most 1000cc IL4 sportsbike riders...

...ducks...

:twisted:

[Ceri JC]

It works the way it does because you take your insurance cover out for a fixed period of time.

Over a year, person A might be 5 times a greater risk (perhaps in terms of age, NCB, whatever) than person B, but person B might do 5 times the milage. They will pay the same premium because the risk the present to the insurance company is the same, and that's all their interested in. Making sure they've earnt enough money from you by the time you're expected to make a claim.

That's probably the most sensible justification for it, but what about the example I mentioned where rider B, drops his mileage significantly (his circumstances change, his bike becomes a weekend toy, rather than his sole transport), his ncb will still only be 2 years, so he will pay more than A, in spite of now being a significantly lower risk. Perhaps an ncb based on a combination of miles done and years, as well as current mileage, is the way forward? If that sounds a bit far fetched/hard to implement, bear in mind the talk of new GPS based "by the mile" insurance costs...

Mass, re: Plucking figures out of the air. Yep, considering they presumably have some sort of system based on stats/risk analysis, why on earth do they differ so much? I know some offer 'silly' quotes as a way of saying "no thanks" and similarly some save a bit by dragging their feet paying out/rubbish service etc., but even realistic quotes can differ by £500+ from company to company. Seems they're all either using different reports to get their figures from, or as you suggest, something like:

hitting a "random 3 digit number generation" button,
add 100,
roll a die, if it's six add 1000,
then, deduct (person's age*4) + (ncb*10) from this.
Total = TPFT quote :)

[Ceri JC]

Scary that there's nothing that says that you need to do minimum mileage per year. You could have a bike insured and in the garage unridden for 360 days a year, then go out a few times a year when it's sunny, ride like a complete twonk and nearly get yourself and others killed... oh, sorry, I just realised that's most 1000cc IL4 sportsbike riders...

...ducks...

:twisted:

Yup- I reckon 5000 miles, minimum, in order to get the NCB that year. Even if they're insuring it for 5000 and actually riding 200, at least they're paying the extra to compensate for their increased risk. :)

[Cronos]

Clearly the lenght of time you've been riding and the level of experience you have are totally different. From the insurance companies' perspective, the only measure they can reliably take is the length of time you've a) held your license and b) been insured. They can't determine your experience with any reliability, it's not like we hold pilots' licenses where hours in flight are recorded.

[Ceri JC]

They can't determine your experience with any reliability, it's not like we hold pilots' licenses where hours in flight are recorded.

They could get an approximation of our mileage based on how many miles the bike has been insured for, for each years ncb claimed (if we only do 1500 miles a year, we're unlikely to of insured it for 12,000 a year).

Re: the point about the places we ride (eg someone who does 90% of their miles on a motorway is less experienced than a same mile rider who does 60% in London) could be seen to be offset, to some degree, by the fact that the person is likely to continue this pattern (eg stick to what they're good at/used to) unless they move, or their job changes.

[Biker Biggles]

At present it is too difficult for them to work all this out so they use wide generalisations to come up with a premium.This is not ideal and I understand the frustrations that come from it,but consider the consequenses of the alternative before you demand change.Very soon we will be offered "pay as you go "insurance with a "big brother"tracker following your every move and calculating the premium accordingly.You dont need the ramifications spelt out Im sure.


My Motto----Be carefull what you wish for,you might just get it.

[Ceri JC]

At present it is too difficult for them to work all this out so they use wide generalisations to come up with a premium.This is not ideal and I understand the frustrations that come from it,but consider the consequenses of the alternative before you demand change.Very soon we will be offered "pay as you go "insurance with a "big brother"tracker following your every move and calculating the premium accordingly.You dont need the ramifications spelt out Im sure.


My Motto----Be carefull what you wish for,you might just get it.

Yes, I'd hate to see the GPS-thing become wide spread (you can imagine it, can't you, 'sorry, your insurance is invalid as our gps showed you were doing 76mph on the motorway, two days previously'). However, should this come in and become mandatory, using it to get a better idea of people's experience might be a 'silver lining' (although not neccesarily one they'd use :? ).

[Biker Biggles]

Big Brother taking over IMHO.Id sooner emigrate than live under the yoke of these people knowing the ins and outs of my life.It wouldnt be so bad if we had a right to privacy in this country but we dont.The information gained from this and other similar technology becomes the property of those that gather it and they can sell it to anyone.And they do.

[Dicky Ticker]

As the original post was mileage--experience surely the two go hand in hand The more mileage a person covers I would anticipate the better their "road awareness" but the other thing to consider is your insurance track record,even no fault claims most show as time consuming in the insurers records and the higher your mileage the greater statistical risk you are Also the area you live in has a substancial bearing on the premiums
When I moved from Greater London out to Witham my insurance on both bike and cars dropped by about 40% which is crazy because I now commute the 44miles each way [88x5=440miles per week] My annual mileage is about 30K car and 8-10k on the bike,plus another 65-75k in a truck Statistically a bad risk but because of my record over the last 30
plus years I pay very low premiums Even my commercial policy is £2500 less than some of the people I work with
I can only conclude that age,experience mileage factors are all taken into account when the premiums are calculated,but what do I know