View Full Version : Speeding BLUFF? Or am I to start worrying? (bit long winded)
I Went for a ride two up on the sunday of bank holiday weekend. Was travelling at about 80 on a 60 road untill a got around the slight left hand bend ahead.
Seeing the road ahead was empty i opend the throttle and settled at an indicated 115mph (naughty i know) until the next slight bend where i relaxed off the throttle and focussed hard on the horizon and seen a little stripey blob (which turned out to be the behind of two police cars and a police bike) and braked like mad to the speed limit!
the distance from me to the police was only just visible and i have 20/20 vision! i was expecting to get pulled and get a slapped wrist as i was sure they would of at least heard my antics! Sure enough i got pulled!
The first words out of the officers mouth were along the lines of "being pulled over ..blaa blaa.. suspected speeding ... blaa" but then he mentioned something about a covert speed camera they were testing on that stretch of road and wrote me out an NIP (notice of intended prosicution) and a producer.
I took every thing on the chin and was nice and polite. took my helmet off so he could see my face etc! I admitted to not having displayed my tax as i had struggled with the holder, to which he replied he wouldnt trouble me with and would just add it to my producer, which i thought was nice of him! I asked what speed i was clocked at, and he couldnt respond and said it may not have captured me(I thought under acpo guidelines they had to tell you the speed?? )! And when i questioned the position of the aleged camera, he just grinned and said "im not likely to tell you that now am i?" but again under ACPO guidlines i thought they had to tell you of any details you asked of the speed trap / camera!??? He proceded to tell me i may not get prosocuted because the camera may not be working, it may not have got my plate, or it may not have read my speed correctly.
while he was explaining this i could hear a bike approaching much in the same manner as i did and slow at the last bend! he then travelled half way up the straight at the speed limit, only to do a u turn and bugger off! :D I commented to the officer about the biker being a sneeky git and the officer laughed!
his collegue then radiod for some one to try intercept the bike as they didnt have his reg number.
This is also what made me belive it to be a bluff, as surely if there was a camera, it would have his reg number stored! Have i been blufffed or am i right to be papping myself?
oppinions please! long winded dribble over, thankyou to any one with the patitence to read this :?
::EDIT:: Paragraphs added :D :oops:
1) Did he caution you? ("Is there anything you have to say... might be used against you in a court of law etc").
2) As there was more than one officer in the car then they could issue a NIP in anyway as they don't actually need proof that you were speeding, their judgement will be relied upon by the magistrate.
3) If you weren't cautioned then it's only going to be a £60 fine and a three pointer (I think).
4) You never heard of paragraphs? :wink:
.
When/If you receive the NIP... ask for evidence.
The word "testing" worries me!
I got a caution right at the end as he let me on my way!
I think i was too far away for them to use oppinions and was round a bend at the time of speeding. after the bend the distance was far enough for pedestrians to not be visible. I just saw a yellow blur with what i thought was stripes and slowed even more just in time for my suspitions to be correct
Sorry bout the lack of paragraphs :) I get kinda impatient when i write or type :) and like to get it finished as soon as poss
When/If you receive the NIP... ask for evidence.
I got the NIP to sign on the spot. but there were nothing written, and no mention of evidence!
I thought that was if they sent you a speeding ticket? cause i didnt get one of them!?
That reads like a bit of a scare story to me... i hope i'm right (for once)
That reads like a bit of a scare story to me... i hope i'm right (for once)
I really hope so :cry:
Ive only had my full license 6 months :cry:
hi mate,
Just to clear things up
You say you were cautioned and you mentioned you'd signed the NIP? yes/no?
What was written on the NIP?
yes the officers don't need camera evidence HOWEVER!! its not always taken as gospel it depends on the situation!
Not knowing all the facts despite the speed being excessive it was probably a scare. which worked!! :twisted: :twisted:
If you do hear more from this PM me and I may help with advice
You say you were cautioned and you mentioned you'd signed the NIP? yes/no?
What was written on the NIP?
1) Yes i was cautioned,
2) Yes i signed the NIP
3) The NIP just has the road number "a162 sherburn bypass"
and "(C)" circled "(exceeding a speed limit)", signed, dated, rank and number. thats it! no other info!
Thanks for you input mate, and ill be sure to take up your offer on further help!
Thanks again
I got a caution right at the end as he let me on my way!
I mean an official police caution that they have to speak before they proceed to write up their paperwork/NIP. They can't give it afterwards and it's not a "don't do it again sonny" type of caution ;).
.
I mean an official police caution .......
Yes he gave me the official caution / read me my rights just before he sent me on my way!! after all the paper work and stuff (it was almost an after thought really cos i was just about to put my helmet on after he said it was all done) I thought they could say it when they wanted, but leave it till last because they have to write down conversation exchanges after your writes have been read ???
Thanks for the info
:? Although still not sure what to think ? ive been sticking to speed limits since tho put it that way :D
Is it not possible that they just fed you rubbish so that you would sign something to say you were speeding, therefore no need for evidence and hence the caution at the end?
sounds a bit iffy to me.
so lesson learned, if im caught in the same situation . . . deny it ? is that the correct thing to do ?
hall13uk
09-05-05, 11:24 PM
sounds a bit iffy to me.
so lesson learned, if im caught in the same situation . . . deny it ? is that the correct thing to do ?
i would say always deny in any situation. well not deny thats wrong, (might get into more trouble) just do not admit to anything.
when my friend got stoped in his mazda mx5 (taking me to gatwick) the pc said "do you know why i stopped" he said "no", & cos it was not caught on camera & he did not admit liabilty all he got was a slapped wrist. moral of the story let the police do there job & don't make it easy for them. Its up to them to provide evidence of the offence if they can't then you are half way there. & i think it goes without saying really allways be polite not always easy but just think of your licence & how much you wish to keep biking. :)
most coppers are nice blokes/gals really you treat them with respect & the coristy is repayed
tee jey
10-05-05, 01:15 AM
I'd be worried about the 'testing a speed camera', what are they testing it for? accuracy. If it not a proven bit of kit surely it can not be used as evidence and that would explain the cops slightly unorthordox procedure in this instance. If they do try and proceed with a prosecution I'd ask for a copy of the evidence.
Have a look at http://pepipoo.com It's a very useful site.
650newb
10-05-05, 04:37 AM
Personally i dont know what the procedure is for how they test speed cameras, but i would think they wouldnt test it on the public motorists, but in a controlled enviroment and by themselves.
Also on the lines of what others have said, they cant use a camera thats still being tested as evidence because it might not be the correct reading.
Other than that, i dont think you should have anything to worry about (but dont hold me to that)
The only bit that bothers me is that you signed something...
Surely the officers can't just say they think you were doing about xmph... I thought in the UK they had to say how fast you were going, and be able to prove it?
Good luck (but slap on the wrist for going so quick...)
Yes he gave me the official caution / read me my rights just before he sent me on my way!! after all the paper work and stuff
If they suspect that an offence has been committed they are obliged under PACE to caution you ("You do not have to say anything, but you amy harm your defence.....") before they question you about the alleged offence.
Anything that you said before the caution was given is inadmissible as evidence in Court. Bear in mind that the NIP that you signed will have had the caution written on it.
If you get any Court papers as a result of this incident then take legal advice.
blacksheep
10-05-05, 09:01 AM
He was feeding you bullsh*t!
I thought any camera had to be calibrated and if you ask to see the proof of this they must show you it.
If they didn't know if it was working correctly it couldn't have been calibrated.
I don't believe the whole "new type of camera" crap but I don't know enough about the legal side to offer any further advice.
Ceri JC
10-05-05, 09:41 AM
sounds a bit iffy to me.
so lesson learned, if im caught in the same situation . . . deny it ? is that the correct thing to do ?
Bike advise that you remain polite, but when asked "What speed were you doing?" the correct response is, "you tell me" as sometimes an admission on your part is all they have to go on. Presumably if they ask, "Do you know how fast you were going?" You should say 'Yes', but not disclose the actual speed.
fraser01
10-05-05, 11:49 AM
:?:
I think i actually acted fairly conservatively! I never said i admitted speeding , but never denied it.
The only question i was asked was if the bike was mine.
I wasn't asked questions about the incident or anything! The police officer seemed like a fairly nice chap, and was polite! Surely if he had any inclination as to what speed i was doing he would not have acted this way?
Thanks for everyones input so far. Much appreciated
:?:
Well said, good sir :lol:
Question: Do you know what speed you were doing, SIR???
Answer: I did not take my eyes off the road as the current road conditions are adverse and beleave that the road required my full attention.. SIR.
Question: You being cocky sir.??
Answer: .........
Allseeing
10-05-05, 03:41 PM
Being cynical, I would suggest that when the caution was given is irrelevant. If the officers do decide to take it further they can just change their stories.
With regards to the testing the speed reading trials are usually "controlled" tests carried out on private land - last time I went to the fire service college the police were testing a laser based system on the mock-up stretch of motorway. I would think though that some on-site testing would be required when a camera is installed on a public road to ensure it is functioning correctly. However I don't believe the testing can be used to prosecute motorists due to question marks over the calibration of the device.
I would suggest it is scare tactics...although I would be concerned about signing an NIP...
As an asside, in this situation could you refuse to sign the NIP until evidence was provided? (innocent until proved guilty and all that).
AS.
Carsick
10-05-05, 04:14 PM
As an asside, in this situation could you refuse to sign the NIP until evidence was provided? (innocent until proved guilty and all that).
Since the NIP is a Notification of Intention to Prosecute, I don't think evidence is required until the actual prosecution. All you're signing for is to say that you have been informed of their intentions and are aware of what it means.
sticky-dizzle
10-05-05, 04:55 PM
If they had any prof whatsoever you we're doing 115mph you'd have probably been arrested- nearly twice the speed limit?
I think he was probably feed you some pooh - either way its to late to fret over it now, may aswell get out there and ride the thing (just in case) lol.
Being as you we're riding 2 up you could say you we're riding so smoothly and well within the limit that your passenger fell asleep, falling backwards taking you by surprise which made you grab the first thing you could - the throttle and the result 115mph, and a pillion on the deck??
Dizz
Being as you we're riding 2 up you could say you we're riding so smoothly and well within the limit that your passenger fell asleep, falling backwards taking you by surprise which made you grab the first thing you could - the throttle and the result 115mph
Ha! :D :P LOL
Dont think that would wash with them tho somehow! :wink:
may aswell get out there and ride the thing (just in case) lol.
Was thinking the same, but then again i could go over the top and think "sod it, i aint gonna have a license anyway so here goes!" But then realised i only have an SV, not a 'Ghost Rider' Replica (i wish :twisted:, but then again id get a death certificate in replacement of my license(not so good) )
Red ones
11-05-05, 05:36 AM
"Do you know why I have stopped you?"
"Was I speeding?"
"Yes, Sir, do you know how fast you were going"
"Hmmmm, heavy underestimate of actual but still slightly illegal"
This conversation goes 2 ways. The first is:
PC says, "********, I don't have an actual and I have got myself in a conversational corner, but you were speeding and I have a producer for you"
or
"Ridiculous oveestimate what vehicle is this?"
"It's a GS500"
I like the second option, the following REALLY happened to me:
"Do you know why I have stopped you?"
"Was I speeding?"
"Yes, Sir, do you know how fast you were going"
"Hmmmm, 70?"
"About 120mph what vehicle is this?"
"It's a diesel Austin Maestro"
oddly enough his next line was, "Well, you were speeding sir!"
"It's a diesel Austin Maestro"
I hear they're good for 160mph with a tail wind.
Cloggsy
11-05-05, 07:43 AM
"It's a diesel Austin Maestro"
I hear they're good for 160mph with a tail wind.
Yeah... Off a cliff backwards :lol: :lol: :lol:
SVeeedy Gonzales
11-05-05, 08:12 PM
Sounds fishy to me - they don't have any "covert" cams like that in the pipeline, and even if they did, it would not have what they call "type approval" yet, and people would know about them already.
With no "type approval" it's not an acceptable method and I doubt a court would accept any evidence...
Sounds like a wind up to me!
Well.... I guess i was right to be worried! :cry:
I recieved a summons this morning and statement and other bits!
On the statement it says i was recorded doind an exact 90mph by a covert "pro laser"? but i cannot find any part on any form where i am able to request evidence! do i just right off to my local police station for this or what?
Also how do i go about getting a solicitor? Am i only entitled to a free representation at the court (if i dont plead via post) or can i get a free solicitor to look at the case before the court appearance date?
PLease help, all this legal stuff is beyond me
Sorry to hear that, hopefully someone will be able to offer you good legal advice. The conversation at the time was awfully off imo.
SVeeedy Gonzales
18-05-05, 09:38 AM
Bummer - sorry, when you said about them testing it I assumed that meant it was a new thing - Pro laser are a recognised type and been around (and doing people) for a while now.
Scabby that they can hide it and not let people know it's there :(
I think its time to invest in a road angel or something similar!
Personally I'd give these people a ring as they're specialist bike solicitors:
http://www.whitedalton.co.uk/
You'll likely get advice even if you don't wish to use them in court.
.
Thankyou, ill have a look at them!
SVeeedy Gonzales
18-05-05, 07:48 PM
As well as roadangel, etc. there's a new thing based on a garage door opener (they have same frequency as laser speedtraps) and if it picks up a laser signal it jams it, sounds an audible alarm for a few seconds, then turns off... giving you a few secs to slow down before they can measure you.
It gets around the illegality of jamming the signal by sensing it and switching off. Mate is thinking of getting one for his Subaru... though he never seems to go over 90 in it :roll:
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