How do you go fast? [Archive] - SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum

TrojanHorse11

10-05-05, 09:46 PM

Yes I know, an seemingly stupid question to ask as a so called "biker" on a bike forum, (and I know a lot of you will be laughing your heads off reading this - or feeling sorry for me), but believe it or not, I just cannot go above :laughat: 60 mph even on a totally straight dual carriageway. The blustery wind just feels like it's going to make me lose control or jolt the handlebars or the tyres are going to lose their grip or I'm gonna lose it on a rut in the road (some of them scare the crap out of me!).......

Also I can't turn - If I'm doing 60 mph on an A-road and a SLIGHT bend approaches, I panic. Off goes the throttle, reduce speed, possibly even a bit of brake(!)......

Today I was out and there were R6's, Bandits, etc etc all speedily enjoying the fruits of their bike's performance. And there's me plodding along scratching my head thinking "how do they do it"?

I don't know if it's my bike: naked GS500. I think you have to find your "perfect partner" as Auto-Trader would put it. I tried a Z750S a few weeks back and I couldn't beleive I felt more at home on that than on my GS, bearing in mind this was a bike I'd never ridden in my life. Within less than an hour, I was cornering better and going faster than I ever can on my own GS (which I've had for over a year)

:-k ] :roll: :?:

adam

10-05-05, 09:56 PM

lay off the weed?

Cloggsy

10-05-05, 10:05 PM

Today I was out and there were R6's, Bandits, etc etc all speedily enjoying the fruits of their bike's performance. And there's me plodding along scratching my head thinking "how do they do it"?

You might of missed it while you were doing your rider training (easily done,) but the thing you grab with your right hand... If you rotate it towards your body, it makes the engine increase in speed... This used in conjunction with the gaerbox has a tendancy to make the bike & indeed the rider travel faster along the road...

:lol: :lol: :lol: Please take this in the manner it was written - no offence intended :wink:

Seriously, you sound like you could do with some advanced training (i.e. IAM training etc.) Maybe even a 'Bikesafe' training day :?: Well worth the money so I understand...

Mind you, one things for sure, going along at 60, you aren't going to set off any cameras etc (unless you're in a 30 zone :oops:) :lol: :lol: :lol:

lynw

10-05-05, 10:11 PM

Also I can't turn - If I'm doing 60 mph on an A-road and a SLIGHT bend approaches, I panic. Off goes the throttle, reduce speed, possibly even a bit of brake(!)......

Today I was out and there were R6's, Bandits, etc etc all speedily enjoying the fruits of their bike's performance. And there's me plodding along scratching my head thinking "how do they do it"?

Its called countersteering. Its the weirdest concept when explained to me but increased my speed round corners on the 125 from 15mph to 30+mph.

If you want to go left, push the left handlebar to the right. If you want to go right, push the right handlebar to the left. The bike then leans into the corner and you can do it at speed. Something to do slowly at first and then gradually increase your speed. Always make sure youre slow in so you dont bin it by going in too fast. Trust the bike it will handle it unless youre too fast.

Shooter

10-05-05, 10:15 PM

How long have you been riding ?

You may need to relax a bit and trust your machine more but at least you know your limits currently. That may be a good thing ...but also may need looking at because you need a certain amount of confidence to be safe when riding. A nervous disposition could distract you when you most need to be right on your ride and technique.

Relax your body and ease your mind but take some lessons and read up on some of the great riding books available

Muttley

10-05-05, 10:25 PM

The more miles you get on the clock the more at ease you will feel riding the bike, unless you are becoming a danger to yourself and others around you don't be too concerned with how fast you are travelling, it's not a race (honestly officer ;)), trying to keep up with faster riders can often end up in an accident.

When I started it felt like I was being blown off the bike at 30 mph, then after a while 40 felt slow, now 60 feels very pedestrian. The more you get used to speeds the more comfortable you will feel on the bike. (It's the same with driving a car)

ophic

10-05-05, 10:30 PM

i can't say i've ever had the problem to the extent that you have, but i can see where you're coming from. Gimme a nice straight road and i'll go as fast as you like (or i iike :P ) but i do have a lack of confidence cornering. Doesn't help that i've lost the back end many times on cold tyres :oops:

Cloggsy

10-05-05, 10:40 PM

Doesn't help that i've lost the back end many times on cold tyres :oops:

Those standard Dunlops don't help either fella :roll:

Junior

10-05-05, 11:42 PM

Until you feel comfortable going faster, I suggest sticking to 60 mph. Taking verbal advice on how to go faster when you are obviously not ready for it will result in an accident. Oh yeah, and maybe develop a bit more genital fortitude. (JK :wink: )

Anonymous

10-05-05, 11:49 PM

Mr T-Horse, sorry to sound like a lecturing know-all, but I feel really strongly about this....

The main objective of riding-out is NOT how fast you go, but returning home in one piece with a smile on your face. Is there ANY point coming home miserable, or in an ambulance? Or not coming back at all? One thing's for sure: switching to an R1 or Gixxer or Big Zed won't make a poor rider better....but it'll certainly get them into bigger trouble, faster.

Since your GS500 can't be all that new, do you know that it's in good condition? Forks and rear shocks in good order? Tyres pumped up right and their profile not squared-off? Swing arm bearings snug, and head races not rattling about? All these things can make the bike feel bad (and you too) so get them checked.

Then, if you still feel unsafe, either stop riding or go get PROPER training. NOT to do so places a big burden on those who are likely to have to scrape you up and stick you back together (or not) when you overcook it somewhere.

For twenty years I've been skiing. I knew from the off that I would never be Alberto Tomba - and I hate Black runs. So I don't do them. I've had lessons so that I can handle all the Blues and Reds I want, at the speed I want and without endangering those around me. And I still enjoy it as much now as ever I did.....it wouldn't be improved if I bought a Nevica sealskin spray-on lycra suit and the latest Salomon Rad Carvers with Titanium bindings and Nuclear Fission wax - and you shouldn't think you'll turn into Valentino Rossi just by getting a damn big sports bike.

Warren

11-05-05, 12:16 AM

where bouts u from ?

caines

11-05-05, 12:58 AM

hmmmm a lack of confidence I see!

The faster you go in a straight line the more stable the bike becomes (generally speaking!!!!). Because the wheels are generating lateral energy (upwards energy) which keeps the bike upright. Im not saying do this but if you were going 110 - 120 down the motorway, you would find it much harder to steer/lean the bike because of this and its highly unlikely that the wind will blow the bike away while your on it. It may cause the bike to veer slightly left or right but this is where countersteering really is a benefit in keeping in a straight line.

Countersteering: If you get a gust of wind blow from your right, keep your body upright and shift the bike underneath your body. Lean the bike (and not yourself) SLIGHTLY right to counter the effect of the wind with the handlebars straight. As the wind goes bring the bike back to upright. You'll find once you master this wind is not a problem!

Ive done 100 mph on a GS on the motorway in the ****ing rain with really bad winds, (dont try this either its just an example) but your bike isnt the problem. Its highly unlikely that wind will take the grip of the wheels from underneath you.

I would suggest going onto a dual carriage way keep it constant at 60mph and no matter how difficult you find it relax yourself and your grip on the handlebars and just get a feel for the way the suspension is dealing with the bumps, practice your countersteering and your confidence will come. Avoid massive potholes obviously but as you go over bumps etc, dont panic just tell yourself that this bike CAN handle this, this is what its designed to do.

lynw: If you want to go left, push the left handlebar to the right. If you want to go right, push the right handlebar to the left

Are you sure about this? surely pushing the handlebar right will make the bike lean right and not left?

Jezza

11-05-05, 01:35 AM

How do i go fast? Buggered if i know.

But the faster you try to go the slower you will go. You need to relax and be comfortable. Try getting more lean angle through slower corners first where your confidence should be higher.
If you're on a curvy road, try to get into a rythm. When you get it right it's very rewarding, no matter how fast you're going.

At speed, lean forward so that the wind is holding you in position and 'push' yourself forwards on the pegs if necessary, don't hang on to the bars. If you do you'll basically be pulling the front up and it will get unstable.

The most important thing is probably where you're looking. Look at where you want to go, not at trees that you're scared of running into or whatever. And look as far ahead as possible, while scanning the road in front of you without actually 'looking' at it.

There's good advice in this thread and a lot of it. I'd just concentrate on one thing after the other. Say go out one day and concentrate on looking ahead. Then another day concentrate on relaxing your grip on the bars etc.

Do some rider training. And once you're halfway comfy do a track day. I learned more in one day on a track than i did in a year on the road.

Take your time, i'm still not a great rider after 7 years on bikes, but i like to think i'm still improving.

Jezza

11-05-05, 01:41 AM

Actually, pushing down on the right bar will make you go right.
I think what whoever wrote it the other way round meant was pushing the right bar forward and pulling the left towards you will make you turn right. Opposite of what you'd do on a pushbike.
It's just the initial force needed for cornering, not through the whole corner.

That's how i think it works anywa, feel free to correct me.

SteveR

11-05-05, 07:06 AM

I did my training on a Honda 500 - and had trouble going above 60MPH.
My helmet started to llift and I started to feel uncomfortable - it's pointless forcing yourself to go faster in these conditions.
It sounds like you have a similar problem - the GS is not for you.
If the Z750S feels better, then that's a good way to solve this - and then get some advanced training to sort out the cornering.

And there are no 'stupid' questions.

BTW, I have no problems above 60 on the SVs - I changed the helmet also.

Jezza

11-05-05, 07:39 AM

I used to own a CB500 and used to commute on the autobahn, sitting on 130-140kph easily. Weird. I've been to track days with it and around 180kph didn't have any problems either.
Is your helmet too big or do you not tighten up the strap properly?

Captain Nemo

11-05-05, 08:24 AM

hhmmmm, sounds like a big lack of confidence.

a gs500 will not get blown over by the wind, unless you atach a sail
most bikes have more grip than the rider has cahones.

even when it feels like youre cornering really hard youre probably only using 50% of the available grip

you wont fall off the side of the bike when leaning into a corner, well not unless you try really hard.

it sounds like you need some more training to get your confidence up.

if you felt at home on Z750 then id get your gs checked over it maybe that theres something wrong that you cant identify but is making it handle like a pig, cos if youre scared on the gs the kwak sjould have terrified you.

im not trying to be rude, but if youre so nervous and unable to control the bike, how did you pass your test? id have thought that the examiner would have picked up on your riding and failed you for not being in full control of the bike.

again not trying to be offensive,

but,

i tried fishing once it/i was crap so now i dont go fishing,

it could be that biking just isnt for you and that youll never feel really comfy on a bike at speed, so what, go slow and enjoy it or find something else to spend all your time/money/energy on..............

Ceri JC

11-05-05, 09:08 AM

Maybe get a flyscreen? Also, what sort of leathers do you wear?

Although there's probably a deeper/more serious problem as to why you feel uncomfortable at speed, windblast (particularly on a naked bike) count for a lot. Something to deflect the windblast off you (decent leathers or a waterproof oversuit and/or screen) will do this. Without realising it, you'll look at the speedo and notice you're going quicker than it feels. I imagine part of the reason the semi-faired Z750s felt better to you was the reduced windblast. I know that both getting windproof leathers and a DB screen on my bike has made me quicker, first time out after each one I was averaging 10mph faster without meaning to.

Also, get the bike checked over: suspension, tyres, etc. as people have said. Just knowing the bike is in good working order will increase your faith in it. Once you've done that, get yourself some advanced rider training.

Without being rude, how did you pass your test? I thought you had to do dual carriageways and reach 70mph to pass? :-k

Carsick

11-05-05, 11:24 AM

Whereabouts in the country are you? If any of the suggestions of having the bike checked have worried you, maybe somebody from here will be willing to give it a run to see if it feels ok. After all, most of us have ridden a GS500 or something similar.

Btw, the GS will go above 100 (takes a bit of wringing to get above 90, though) Once you get into those figures it does indeed get a bit unstable when on a bend, but at 60 it should have surprisingly good handling.
I know I was surprised when I rode one again after 6 months on other bikes.

jonboy

11-05-05, 11:57 AM

Its called countersteering. Its the weirdest concept when explained to me but increased my speed round corners.

I respectfully suggest that if he's having difficulty going round corners at not even approaching normal riding speeds, counter-steering won't help and could cause him more yet problems.

The man needs one to one training IMO from a patient and qualified instructor. Confidence (plus basic technique), as suggested, seems to be the major factor here.

.

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 12:10 PM

He's having problems getting round corners because he doesn't understand how too. Learning about counter steering would help.

jon

11-05-05, 12:16 PM

Have you rode with a skilled rider before?

One of the things that helped me a lot when i first got my SV was going for a country burn (ooh err) with jonboy. I didn't try and keep up as i was still getting used to everything but seeing the speeds he could take around some corners when he was shooting off really highlighted just how grippy they can be.

I've always been a SUPER confident driver, having karted, raced, done track days, drove single seaters. I can put a car to the limit at the first corner on cold tyres no problem but i'm having to build up my riding REALLY slowly. As i'm sure you're aware, the costs of getting it wrong on a bike are far more than in a car and i'm sure your constantly reminding yourself of it.

As the others said, just relax relax relax. How many miles have you rode? Straightline speed is easy, anyone can twist and go, cornering well is a different ballpark.

Jelster

11-05-05, 12:34 PM

I would even go as far to suggest that advanced training is not what he's looking for yet as he still needs to grasp some of the basics. Find a good local training school and they should be able to offer you a "Enhanced Skills" day and take you to the next stage.

Other than that, riding within a group is always useful, it allows you to follow the lines of a more experienced rider. If you're in the London/South East area it shouldn't be difficult to meet with a few of the folk on here who would be more than willing to help you out, and we have a few IAM trained riders amongst us.

A lot of this is due to how you ride, where you ride and what you ride. A decent bike with good rubber is very confidence inspiring (SV on good rubber, out of town on some nice sweeping bends for instance).

Whatever you do, do not push yourself unless you honestly feel you are ready.

.

jonboy

11-05-05, 12:44 PM

He's having problems getting round corners because he doesn't understand how too.

I agree.

Learning about counter steering would help.

I stongly diasagree. If counter-steering was part of basic bike skills it would be taught on your DAS (which it generally isn't). Until he's mastered very basic cornering skills, counter-steering is likely to add to his problems rather than cure them.

.

Carsick

11-05-05, 12:51 PM

I stongly diasagree. If counter-steering was part of basic bike skills it would be taught on your DAS (which it generally isn't). Until he's mastered very basic cornering skills, counter-steering is likely to add to his problems rather than cure them..
but countersteering is a basic skill of motorcycling. It's how we all start a bike going round a corner at anything over a jogging pace.
When you say it isn't taught, it's conscious countersteering that isn't taught, and to some degree, I agree with it not, in the current DAS system.

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 12:53 PM

Learning about counter steering would help.

I stongly diasagree. If counter-steering was part of basic bike skills it would be taught on your DAS (which it generally isn't). Until he's mastered very basic cornering skills, counter-steering is likely to add to his problems rather than cure them.

.

But he's already counter-steering, or he wouldn't be getting around corners at all. And I think it is something that should be taught on DAS, even if it can't really be tested.

jonboy

11-05-05, 01:09 PM

You can easily get round most corners just by leaning, try taking your hands off the bars and see what I mean. What I'm talking about (and I though it obvious) was conscious counter-steering where the inside bar is pushed to achieve a quicker and greater degree of lean.

I think there's a rodent that frequents Soho that needs it's tail pulled :twisted: .

.

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 01:12 PM

:cry:

Mogs

11-05-05, 01:22 PM

Forget all this countersteering stuff, although valid, it’s not for you just yet.

Grip the tank with your knees, move your feet so that the balls of your feet are on the pegs. This will relax your upper body and arms.

Don’t worry about speed, that comes with practice, concentrate on being on the correct line so that you can see best (and be seen) around corners.

Take the advice, get on a Bikesafe course – if you can find one that’s over a weekend all the better. Money well spent.

Most important when you are riding, be defensive, think everyone wants to kill you, even your mates on bikes.

Carsick

11-05-05, 01:25 PM

even your mates on bikes.
Yup, we're nutters, us.

Sudoxe

11-05-05, 02:08 PM

Don’t worry about speed, that comes with practice, concentrate on being on the correct line so that you can see best (and be seen) around corners.

Here! Here!

I was (maybe still am?) a slower than avaerage rider. Always the last one on rideouts etc...

Anyway, I grabed some advanced training. Getting the correct line was one part, another part was various countersteering techniques. But the lines alone made the most difference.

In Just under 20K of rideing in 2.5years (11.5 on my sv in the past 12months), and I didn't top a ton until about a month ago. Dont worry about speed. Go at your own pace, otherwise you will get into trouble.

A good guide is the police roadcraft book, it explains lots of techniques to aid your cornering, positioning along with observation etc...So this could help.

Anyway HTH
Dan

suzsv650

11-05-05, 02:28 PM

wel may be its the bike i had a GS500 and it sucked the worst bike ive ever had! when i took corners above 70 i would get front end woobles and at about 80 the back end would stat to twich n tray and throw me off!

alltho i did mange to get through chedder at about 80 - 90 lol .... ( this wos my own private chedder gordge by the way hehe :lol: )

so yeah GS500 sucks!

Peter Henry

11-05-05, 02:58 PM

For sure countersteering is not for Trojan just yet and then some! Believe it or not I have only become truly aware of it's value in the last 12 months or so.I guess I must have always used some as I have always hooned through bends.But now I understand it more and consciously look to employ it. Late breaking and throwing it in later...it's a great buzz.It also means you are cranked over for less time and to lesser degree but able to hold higher speeds when doing so.(Does that sound correct guys?! :? )
Countersteering below say 30mph has no benefit and as stated could actually create problems.I personally have found that using both arms in unison,(push with inner arm and pull with outer) when counterstering gives me a better all around feeling? :lol: 8)

Mogs

11-05-05, 03:02 PM

Well, maybe it's the bike, I had a GS500 and it sucked, the worst bike I've ever had! When I took corners above 70 I would get front end wobbles and at about 80 the back end would start to twitch and try to throw me off!

Although I did manage to get through Cheddar at about 80 - 90 lol .... ( this was my own private Cheddar Gorge by the way hehe :lol: )

so yeah GS500 sucks!

Translated :lol:

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 03:06 PM

For sure countersteering is not for Trojan just yet and then some!...

I'm not really sure why anyone is saying this. You can quite push the bars as hard as you like if you're going at a reasonable pace, and nothing bad will happen. In fact, at any decent speed the bike is so stable you HAVE to conciously counter-steer to make it change direction.

Mogs

11-05-05, 03:14 PM

When I learned to ride "Countersteering" was yet to be invented, Yes you did it, but it came natural, you certainly didn't think about it.

All this theory can be confusing and you don't need to know about it to pass the 60mph barrier.

caines

11-05-05, 03:20 PM

I think between us all we have probably fried the guys head by now. Im amazed at how crap so many of you are at riding bikes (no offense lol!), no wonder so many people crash the things! If your not confident going over 15mph, then maybe bikes just aint for you! There are times when slow just isnt safe aswell!

Like today I was filtering between two lanes of traffic when the lights when green so I was stuck between two rows of moving cars, both cars either side of me started to move slightly towards the centre line and I was a bit cramped, so basically I had to kane it through the middle of 6 or so cars to get out of trouble. Now was that the safe move? I think it was.

But what does mr 'safe' do in that situation? ooooh no I must not break the speed limit, so I will keep riding here like a sitting duck and most likely be knocked off and eat tarmac! Im starting to realise that people who say they are safe because they only do 30mph are actually just paranoid! and in my opinion a danger to themselves!

ahhhh I feel better now!

BY the way my SV is for sale, 2004 with 5000 miles full faired, black - make me an offer!

jonboy

11-05-05, 03:48 PM

For sure countersteering is not for Trojan just yet and then some!...

Exactly.

You can quite push the bars as hard as you like if you're going at a reasonable pace, and nothing bad will happen.

What planet are you on? :shock:

In fact, at any decent speed the bike is so stable you HAVE to conciously counter-steer to make it change direction.

Now I'm seriously worried. :lol:

.

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 03:50 PM

It's true, the faster you go the more stable the bike becomes.

Peter Henry

11-05-05, 03:53 PM

Squirrel...I have to say that I am glad Jonboy has made comment exactly on the lines as I was thinking in response to you. Sorry my friend but you are way off mark with what you are saying there. :? 8)

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 03:55 PM

Peter Henry

11-05-05, 04:01 PM

Squirrel...it is just your comment about pushing as hard as you like on the bars at speed with little potential for problems.That taken in isolation could prove deadly for the inexperienced rider. The possibility of generating a tank slapper or other unstabilising affects on the bike by doing that at the wrong time or place, especially if the rider panicked at what he had created.
Perhaps it was just a question of how it was written? :? 8)

jon

11-05-05, 04:04 PM

You can quite push the bars as hard as you like if you're going at a reasonable pace, and nothing bad will happen.

Perhaps it is just the way you are wording your explanation Squirrel. The above quote in isolation could be a recipe for disaster. :?
But hey what do I know? :lol: 8)

I understood his point but the wording was terrible. Push or pull a bar hard at speed and you'll be a http://www.escarpment.org/Monitoring/newimages/flyingsquirrel.jpg

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 04:04 PM

:lol:

You're probably right, I shouldn't have used such strong wording.

That, and it probably means I should slow down a bit :shock:

Peter Henry

11-05-05, 04:11 PM

Jon ...I agree, I know Jordan was well meaning,it is just that sometimes misread information can be a very dangerous thing. :wink: 8)

jonboy

11-05-05, 04:17 PM

Peter Henry

11-05-05, 04:21 PM

Jonboy....Don't be so wicked! :lol: :lol: 8)

Grinch

11-05-05, 04:32 PM

nice...

jonboy

11-05-05, 04:34 PM

:oops:

.

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 05:11 PM

It's true, the faster you go the more stable the bike becomes.

No no, that wasn't my point, "In fact, at any decent speed... ...you HAVE to conciously counter-steer to make it change direction."

You're suggesting (strongly) that unless you consciously counter-steer at speed (using both hands on the same bar? :lol: ) the bike will simply carry on in a straight line.

Now before you chatter back (wot squirrel's do, yes? :wink: ) let's wait till mid evening and I can then have a few beers and enjoy this to the max, and maybe have a play with my prey :lol:

http://www.lisawhiteman.com/pictures/portfolio/leechessquirrel.jpg

.

.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hopefully two things that we can agree on:

1) At speed, the bike will be inherantly stable.
2) At speed, to get the bike to change direction at all, counter-steering must be used, concious or not.

If you want to get a bike to change direction rapidly at high speed, then you have to very conciously move the bars, and with a certain amount of effort.

I know this because my commute incorperates a strech of roa.. er, test track, so I've had the chance to practice :)

Iansv

11-05-05, 05:14 PM

Quality pic !!! :lol:

Warren

11-05-05, 05:31 PM

i hereby declear this thread. . . . . derailed.

jonboy

11-05-05, 05:43 PM

Hopefully two things that we can agree on:

1) At speed, the bike will be inherantly stable.

Agreed.

2) At speed, to get the bike to change direction at all, counter-steering must be used, concious or not.

Disagreed. Even at high speed, just shifting your weight and/or pushing down on the footpegs will cause the bike to change course. If you need to change direction rapidly then counter-steering is undoubtedly effective.

.

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 06:51 PM

:lol: Ok, true.

But my point was, when making a fast direction change at high speed you have to be fairly agressive with the bars because the bike is stable.

11-05-05, 07:14 PM

Now now boys - you're not helping the poor lad. :roll:

This really sounds like a confidence thing over a skill thing.
You must have the basic skills or you would have crashed a fair few times by now.

To start with - get another bike, after a year it's plain the GS just isn't for you. Whether it be GS's in general of this particular one doesn't matter - even if it is this one that has problems, getting it sorted isn't going to help much I fear.

You sound like you have no confidence in this bike at all, so if fixed you'll still have a certain level of underlying wariness that will colour everything you do with it.

Clean break and start fresh. With a strange bike you have no preconceptions and are more likely to go with the flow and let the bike teach you its capabilities.

Also by having a different bike it will allow you to turn round to a dealer and ask about a refresher course on basic training, without feeling embarassed about asking for something you feel may be stupid - you're not!
You have seen fault in your riding ability and seem willing to learn - there's nothing stupid in that y'hear.

Some people just don't get on with some bikes - me, I can never ride a scooter (yes they are bikes = motor + 2 wheels OK). I've only ever done it once and it was an excercise in pure comedy - I couldn't turn the fecking thing to save my life, wobbling about all over the place. And I've got a very good sense of balance me! :evil: Ex-county Gymnast and all that.
The riding position was just soooo weird I screwed it up every time. :roll: :lol:

northwind

11-05-05, 07:16 PM

Wouldn't agree with that one either... In fact, the last thing I'd want to do at high speed is give any sort of aggressive input. Strong, yes, but controlled and progressive. But you can still, for example, rapidly change lanes on a motorway just by using pressure on the pegs, at any speed an SV's capable of. I don't countersteer at all at higher speeds, leaning is more predictable IMO. I keep countersteering for emergencies and b-roads at under 50 :twisted:

To get back on topic for a moment, I'd say book yourself in for a day's further training with a good bike school, one to one. Best money you'll ever have spent I think. Lots of riders aren't as good as they want to be, it's just that most are too embarrased to admit it... I doubt there's one rider in a hundred that wouldn't benefit from some further training.

As for countersteering, I couldn't understand what people were going on about with it, until it turned out I'd been doing it automatically since my CBT. I rationalised it as pushing the bike down into a corner. But if it's not coming naturally to you yet, don't push it.

Someone asked why they don't train it on DAS? It's because someone was killed on a DAS course in Wales last year when an instructor tried to train them in it- and that's a qualified instructor in a 1-to-1 situation.

SVeeedy Gonzales

11-05-05, 07:40 PM

A confidence thing? Took me ages to get able to keep speed into/through corners... lots of practice... though the SV beats a lot of lesser bikes in terms of suspension, etc.

A lot of it is knowing that the bike *will* go through the corner, and you with it... maybe trying too hard too soon? It's taken me 2 years to get this good (!?!!) and I'm only just getting into taking corners faster, and then on roads I've been on a lot already.

Patience, apprentice, patience...

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 07:49 PM

Wouldn't agree with that one either... In fact, the last thing I'd want to do at high speed is give any sort of aggressive input....

Why?

Jabba

11-05-05, 07:53 PM

FWIW, I think that to some extent everyone makes valid points, but likewise there's a fair smattering of bollix in this thread, too.

The bottom line is that, IMHO, there's many ways to skin a cat (no, I'm not going to use an image :lol: ) and I suspect that we all use lots of methods to move our bikes around on the road. We probably all use a combination of leaning, moving our weight around/hanging off, pushing on the pegs, pushing/pulling on the bars, etc., in every corner we take; the type of corner will determine what we do.

But the main point is that we do it subconciously, on autopilot so to speak, feeling our bikes round the bends using our arses as additional sensors.

No-one can honestly tell me that they make a concious decision to push/pull on the bars, for example, when approaching a bend.

I'm a much more confident rider that I was a year ago; this stems from hours in the saddle learning how my bike works best and from a weekends Bikesafe with the local plod.

TrojanHorse11:
Come on the annual ride out; I'll bet that your not the slowest rider there (it is probably me :wink: ). I'd be honoured to ride with you and show how not to do it :lol: . Seriously, riding with others in the early days was the best thing I did. Ask Akula about how I near stuffed it into a hedge exiting a very gentle bend on the road the Brecon....... Doesn't happen now.

northwind

11-05-05, 07:55 PM

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 08:02 PM

The bottom line is that, IMHO, there's many ways to skin a cat (no, I'm not going to use an image :lol: ) and I suspect that we all use lots of methods to move our bikes around on the road. We probably all use a combination of leaning, moving our weight around/hanging off, pushing on the pegs, pushing/pulling on the bars, etc., in every corner we take; the type of corner will determine what we do.

I think thats probably very true, the things everyones saying they dont do they probably are and just not realising it :lol:

No-one can honestly tell me that they make a concious decision to push/pull on the bars, for example, when approaching a bend.

I do :shock:

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 08:07 PM

Why? I'm not sure there's any point in trying to explain if you can't work it out... High speeds lose you your margins for error, and aggressive inputs are less precise. A smooth, controlled input is always going to be better than a harsh agressive one at speed. It's no less effective but considerably more exact.

Heh, well when I say agressive, I don't mean pulling out a sledge hammer and wacking the bar :) I just mean you can't baby the bike if you're going quickly and want it to turn. Smooth and controled yes, but never the less with a bit of effort 8)

UncleBob

11-05-05, 08:09 PM

.........No wonder the poor bloke hasn't responded to one thread.. he cant find the original question!!!! :roll:

Again!

Jabba

11-05-05, 08:10 PM

No-one can honestly tell me that they make a concious decision to push/pull on the bars, for example, when approaching a bend.

I do :shock:

Where do I find the "Shot Down in Flames" smiley? :lol:

Quiff Wichard

11-05-05, 08:18 PM

now that was a loooong read !

ruff_ryder

11-05-05, 08:20 PM

well i thought i mines well well say somemut too.. evryone else has..lol.. :lol:

lets look at this the bloke obviously wants to change his bike for a SV thats why hes come here.. what better bike could he have to gain his convidence on.. with decent bike and some practice he'll soon hav it cracked!

matt

fizzwheel

11-05-05, 08:23 PM

I didnt counter steer when I started riding. I concentrated on taking a good line through corners,and trying to read the road ahead so I was going at the correct speed before I got to the corner. Thus helping to avoid those nasty brown trouser moments.

When I got a bit more confident and used to a bigger bike. I talked to my brother about getting the bike to turn and he suggested counter steering. I must admit it sounds an incredibly odd thing to do and its hard to explain it. But it does help, but only when you are going quickly and its not something I would recommend you try if you are not confident on the bike. Same goes for moving your weight about and weighting the pegs. The thing is I think is to try things out and do it in nice gentle small stages and only try one thing at a time, otherwse you are just going to confuse the hell out of yourself. Remember that everybody rides differently and that you should only use the techniques that you feel comfortable with. You should also only ride at the speeds you feel comfortable with to. You're in charge of the bike so you dictate what, where and how fast you do things.

If you want to try it, go and find a nice big straight bit of road and make sure that there are no cars / obstacles around you and try giving the bars a gentle push and see what happens to the bike.

If I were you I would go and get some more training and also get somebody who knows what they are doing to check over your bike to make sure its OK. I did my training on a GS and they arent that bad a bike TBH.

Theres lots of hints / tips in the Bike Magazines, I tend to find T.W.O the best, in this months there is a whole article about who to ride fast and safe on the road, can I suggest for starters you go and check this out.

Hope you get it sorted, I'm sure you will.

Edit one more thing, try to keep a constant throttle when cornering, sudden opening and shutting of the throttle will un-setltle the suspensino and make your bike handle strangely.

jonboy

11-05-05, 08:29 PM

No-one can honestly tell me that they make a concious decision to push/pull on the bars, for example, when approaching a bend.

Well I honestly can :lol:, because I 100% most definitely consciously counter-steer on tight bends and roundabouts in order to tighten my line, sometimes with a pressure that's quite considerable.

(Actually I was taught counter-steering on my DAS as the instructor felt that both myself and the other guy were sufficiently capable of understanding the concept and were way past the basics - okay okay he may have been wrong :lol: )

.

fizzwheel

11-05-05, 08:38 PM

Theres lots of good stuff here, does anybody else find they learn all the time just from reading other peoples posts..

I was wandering if it is worth having a riding hints section and putting all these kind of posts into that ??

I can see a reason not to, if a rider follows advice posted in here and comes off might cause problems for the site..

thoughts ??

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 08:49 PM

I think I might have to add "don't try this at home kids" at the end of my posts :shock:

TrojanHorse11

11-05-05, 09:12 PM

Hi everyone,

First of all, thanks for all the advice and replies - I am absolutely amazed that my little question has generated such a massive response by everyone. In less than 24 hours, this thread has gone from my one post to 5 pages long! :shock: This has to be the hottest thread I've ever posted and probably ever will! 8)

To answer a few of the questions and points made, that have been raised during this thread:

I've been riding 2-wheels virtually non-stop since 1992, abeit only on a :laughat: Honda Cub90. I passed my full test in 2002 on the old shape GS500 (clip-on bars + sports riding position). Went out and bought one just like it. Couldn't ride it. Scared me to death. Sold it after 3 months. Moved down to a Honda CB250. Loved it for 12 months then felt I wanted to move up, so I bought a Brand new new-shape GS500 in January 2004 (high and wide bars + sit-up riding position). So the bike's only 16 months old. It's done 1800 miles and is in PERFECT condition (dry miles only, fully serviced and well looked after by me). All the bearings, suspension etc is perfect.
My helmet is a Shoei and is very quiet and pleasant. It's a good fit (I also have a "cheap" helmet and whenever I put the Shoei on after the cheapo one, it makes you appreciate the quality and fit of the Shoei - I've definitely got a Shoei head). There isn't really a problem with wind on my helmet. mainly my chest/arms area.
I managed to pass my test by gritting my teeth and getting to the necessary 70mph, but I was scared to daeth! Also, the new GS I've got means I sit more upright so the wind probably gets to me more than on an old-shape GS because you are lower down with the clip-on bars on the old-shape GS that I passed my test on. Added to this the fact that I've added bar risers to my GS that lift the bars and take them back as well, means I'm probably even more upright and maybe this is causing more wind to hit me?
The Z750S definitely had good wind protection that made me feel more at ease and the weight seemed to be carried lower (even though it's heavier) so it felt like it could be leaned into bends easier. I also did 70mph on regular occassions along a dual cabbageway on my 1-hour test ride with no scardiness at all! (strange?)
I'm from near Cannock, Staffordshire.

I'll put some responses to individual posts below:

Muttley - I agree that trying to keep up with faster riders will definitely lead to disaster or worse for me.

El Boccadillo - I defo agree about what's important is getting home with a smile on your face and enjoying the ride, but I was amazed that others seemed to be able to go fast and I couldn't, so I just wanted to know "how". (having read this thread, I now feel more confident in what I need to do)

caines (your 1st post) - I'll try that. 60mph on a dual cabbageway and get to know the bike at speed (I don't very often do 60mph so that's probably half the problem! - not used to it)

Jezza (1st post) - Cheers - some good advice on your post there

SteveR - Yep the Z750 was definitely better for me.

Ceri JC - I tried the Fabbri sport fly-screen and although it stopped virtually all the wind from my chest, it obviously sent it up to my helmet and caused loads of turbulance. My helmet was being pulled and pushed around really bad at only 40 - 50mph so I sold it. I tried the Fabbri Spitfire screen (bigger one) and this seemed even worse! I tried it in various positions - I'm talking about the screen :twisted:

suzSV650 GS500 sucks! :(

caines (2nd post) - yep, I'd do the same and pull away from the cars if they were boxing me in like that (and have done in the past)

K - :lol: :lol: Thanx, your post made me laugh out loud.

Jabba-the-Hutt - You'd be honoured to ride with me? I don't know why! I'd be honoured to ride with you :lol: as anyone with that name must be something special. 8)

Thanks again all

TrojanHorse11

:thumbsup:

Jabba

11-05-05, 09:20 PM

.. what better bike could he have to gain his convidence on..

Well, since you asked.............................

.............a Honda Hornet :roll:

Anonymous

11-05-05, 09:22 PM

That Horse chap seems like a nice bloke, doesn't he everybody? Very polite and nicely mannered....

GOOD LUCK Mr HORSE! YOU CAN DO IT!! :D :D

Flamin_Squirrel

11-05-05, 09:23 PM

You need to try a faired SV :)

Not only is the SV is lighter than the GS but I wouldn't be surprised at all if you find it easier to ride (I certainly did, and by along way).

Good luck 8)

Jelster

11-05-05, 09:39 PM

I would like to comment that:

Pushing down on the pegs with your feet does NOT help you turn. However, if pushing down on he pegs has the effect of moving your body position and at the same time move the bars, then this will obviously aid turning.

Watch the CSS video where one of the instructors stands and stamps on the pegs with no effect on the steering. Body position (or positioning body weight) is a key factor, along with the rate at which you turn the bars.

And I too consciously counter steer on occasions (especially the way I manage to **** up corners :lol: ).

.

TrojanHorse11

11-05-05, 09:42 PM

Flamin_Squirrel wrote you need to try a faired SV

Actually, it's funny you should mention that Flamin_Squirrel.

I've been meaning to try out an SV as they have been one of my favourite bikes of the last couple of years (I'm not just saying that because of what site I'm on at the moment!). Read loads of reports and tests of them in the mags - the only bike ever that NEVER seems to get slated in any way. That must be a good sign. Also, they are always in the top 10 selling bikes aren't they?

I have tried quite a few bikes over the last couple of years but I just haven't got round to trying the SV. I test-rode a V-Strom last year and although I personally found it a bit too big, I loved the engine in it which of course is an SV engine. I actually stopped and got off the bike at one point to look at the engine because I was so impressed with how it felt and sounded. It even looked nice!