Supersports 600's

[Jelster]

There's a lot of comments been made recently about the performance of SS600's so I just wondered how many of you have actually ridden one (and I mean ridden, not just taken it around the block!)

.

[TSM]

wheres the no answer?

[Cloggsy]

Nope :D

[TSM]

nop, never owned another bike other than the SV

[BillyC]

Nope.. but never claimed anything about a IL4 either!

[lynw]

does the CBaaarrgghh get classed as a ss600? :lol: :lol: :lol:

In which case, yes.

And tbh there are differences which you cant really compare, and I liked each for those different reasons but I love the SV more. I was less likely to lose my licence on it for starters. :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

However, I dont think the SV would have withstood the impact into the van as well as the CBR did... :D

[Warren]

i got one :)

[rictus01]

Although never having owned a ss600, I've use the two in the family frequently (cbr600f 2002 model / SRAD 600).

also ridden within this catagory.
zx6 2002
zx636 2004 model
gsxr600 2002
R6 2001
Daytona 600 (haven done the 650 yet)
zzr 600 (well not a supersport i know)
at a minimum an hour on each, although some a great deal more.

So what are you after then Steve ?

Cheers Mark.

[Scoobs]

Posted: Yes!

I had a test ride on a CBR600RR and covered 80 miles so a bit more than a spin round the block. Also rode an 05 plate ZX636R recently. I was really seriously considering a SS600 as my next bike, but I am now not 100% convinced. Sure they are addictive at the top end, but low and mid range feel weak. It really is horses for courses, but I am stuck between going for a SS600 and a V-twin 1000cc bike.

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

Never :oops: But one day... though an IL4 1000 is more tempting :twisted:

[Nouf]

Am assumi9ng the Duke749 is calssed as an SS600 and answered yes, even if I only had it for 3 weeks :cry:

[UncleBob]

Posted: Yes!

I had a test ride on a CBR600RR and covered 80 miles so a bit more than a spin round the block. Also rode an 05 plate ZX636R recently. I was really seriously considering a SS600 as my next bike, but I am now not 100% convinced. Sure they are addictive at the top end, but low and mid range feel weak. It really is horses for courses, but I am stuck between going for a SS600 and a V-twin 1000cc bike.

That's why you have to buy a 1000cc SS to get what you want from it.. hmm 80lbs torque at 9000rpm..

Other than 2 SV650's I've ridden only a 1000cc IL4, and it made it so easy. I never slate the other bikes unless you have had the time ie 3 months+ to get to know it - to stereotype is just stooopid. I'm wid Jelster.

:roll:

[Scoobs]

Just to clarify, I am not slating SS600. I probably will get one as the next ride, but a just wasn't set alight by the weak bottom and mid range.

[Viney]

I have ridden a few 600's on test ride etc. All good, but just cant get on with the power delivery. My fav was the R6, but it was just too small.

Each to thier own i suppose.

[Sid Squid]

Yes, lots. Mostly a ZX6G, 'cos I've got one.


Also: ZX6F & J, New ZX, ZZR :!: R6, 'Cat, god knows how many varities of CBR including the new ones, GSX-R* allsorts, Triumph.

Sccobs: Weak mid and bottom end? Not to suggest that you're wrong, but it may be that next to the top end they don't feel as good.

Top gear roll on from ~40 - ~80mph, my ZX beats an SV, tested several times, but I've lost count of the times I've been told that my weedy 4cyl 600 has no torque. :roll:

*Buy this one, as much as I like the new Kwak, the K4-K5 GSX-R is a dab comfier and better value, bloody brilliant.

[Viney]

I have ridden a few 600's on test ride etc. All good, but just cant get on with the power delivery. My fav was the R6, but it was just too small.

Each to thier own i suppose.

Strange, although I love the look of the R6 and it has great handling etc, the power delivery is the thing I find to be the most annoying about it. Soooo peaky.

I know im strange!! I want to ride the new Kwak 6 when i get a chance. But again, these 600's are just too small for comfortable riding for someone like me. I find that in real world situations, all the 6's are very much alike and it comes down to the look and stlye of the things, and i think that the KWak hits the spot on that front. Still, there is always the 10R :)

[Skip]

I am waiting for my mate to let me ride his YZF1000 Thunder Ace, he said towards the end of the summer when I have a bit more experience....

Will be quite some comparison! :shock: :lol:

[Scoobs]

Sccobs: Weak mid and bottom end? Not to suggest that you're wrong, but it may be that next to the top end they don't feel as good.

Right in some respects Sid. When I jumped off my SV straight onto the CBR it felt weak. It is the way the power (and torque) is delivered not necessarilly the amount. Your right that the headline figures do not back up the comment, but the seat of the pants riding sensation does (IMO obviously).

However, saying that, when I got back on the SV it was "where are the rpms" and the feeling of running out of puff at the top end.

Both configurations demand different riding styles. The twin is lazier, when the IL4's need to be kept on the boil IF you want to hustle.

I think if I had an IL4 for any period of time then after I had adapted my riding style to suit, I would be more than happy with it.

The thing with the SS600's is that they handle so much better and are so much more adjustable. This is reason enough by itself to buy one. I have a background of mountain biking and I was always experimenting with spring rates, compression and rebound damping to tweak the ride.

My £0.02 for what it is worth.

[thor]

I rode a daytona 650 for 30min and a CBR600F for 40min on test rides. I must say that for a new rider, not having that snap back and forth on bad clutch control at low rev(speed) was actually quite nice! What was immediately obvious though was that it was far too expensive, and I would almost certainly get into a situation where the bike would going too fast for my skills. So far the SV has tought me a lot and I like that.

[Scoobs]

Both configurations demand different riding styles. The twin is lazier, when the IL4's need to be kept on the boil IF you want to hustle.

Don't agree... I can short shift on my Ninja and still ride quickly.

Not arguing with you RDoD. Just my opinion. :wink: :lol:

[Clunk]

Does a GPZ600R count ?


No..........what about a XJ600 ?


:lol:

[Scoobs]

That's fine dude, you're allowed an opinion :-)

You're wrong, but it's your opinion ;-) :lol:

It's only my opinion but everyone is entitled to it!

[fizzwheel]

Nope but I want to, so I can make my own mind up about what I get next.

[Skip]

No..........what about a XJ600 ?
My g/fs dad has one of those, I am still waiting for a go on it, it has a 130 size rear tyre, looks like a moped from the back! :lol:

[Balky001]

Scoobs - think you hit the nail on the head. Riders have to adapt their riding style when going form one bike to the other, otherwise your not playing to the bike's strenghts. You need to appreciate the SSIL4 for what it is, even though it takes a while to get used to at first. Once you can do 0-100 with just the one gear change, you wont miss going up 4 gears on the SV (watching the 600 disappear). For all the torque talk, the range on the IL4's in a single gear is much wider and if you choose to run at 3K you can and I do occassionally in town, but these bikes strenghts aren't doing the 30-40mph acceleration in town - find a nice road, open one up, thrash the nuts off it and smile :wink: Oh, and it's fun in the corners too.

[Carsick]

I haven't bothered reading all of the other replies yet, but will shortly.
I just thought I'd post these two different torque figures from two different bikes.
Can anybody guess which one is which?

Max Torque: 70 Nm @ 10,800 rpm

Max Torque: 64 Nm @ 7,200 rpm


Oh, what a surprise, the 600 is torquier. The reason the IL4 feels like it has no bottom/middle is partly because the middle is in a difference place and partly because the top is just so bloody fantastic.

Btw, I have ridden a few different IL4s, but nothing that could be considered a sportsbike.

[Peter Henry]

Steve...I am more than happy to hold my hand up and say YEP! I have owned 2 xCBR600 plus an effing ace kawasaki ZX6R Ninja! :lol: :lol: 8)

[Jelster]

So what are you after then Steve ?

I jst wanted to understand if the all the comments comparing the SV and SS600's was actually coming from people who have experinced a modern supersports 600, because you need to ride one to understand why they are so popular.

Personally I'm thinking about a muscle bike, GSX1400/XJ1300/CB1300 as I have really come to like the look and it would make a great pillion machine.

.

[Clunk]

Personally I'm thinking about a muscle bike, GSX1400/XJ1300/CB1300 as I have really come to like the look and it would make a great pillion machine.

What about Fazer 1000, best of both worlds.

I've thought about those you mention as my next bike plus ZRX1200, but have now settled on the Fazer, a blue one of course 8)

[Moo]

Ride the girlfriends ZX6R often.

[sharriso74]

Ride the girlfriends often.


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[northwind]

I think Joe's wanting to find out how many of the people with an opinion on how peaky/weak in the middle IL4s are, have actually ridden one recently :)

I still don';t enjoy IL4s but then I've done practically all of my riding on twins so it's no wonder I find it hard to adapt :) If you try and ride them exactly like an SV they will bog down, but that's just because you're doing it wrong, not because the bike's weak...

I still reckon they should be tuning more for midrange on the supersports instead of peak, but that's just a personal preference. Most of the mods I've done on the SV have added to the midband too, I just think that's where it's most useable and useful.

[Balky001]

I still reckon they should be tuning more for midrange on the supersports instead of peak, but that's just a personal preference. Most of the mods I've done on the SV have added to the midband too, I just think that's where it's most useable and useful.

I agree stronger mid range would be desirable, on all bikes. My Power Commander and Remus can are set up for more mod rather than top.

The mid range on the SV is around 4.5K and drops off after 8.5k and I think on my GSXR mid is 7K, but I still have more than another 7K to play with. I think that's that most difficult thing to adapt to when you jump from one bike to another. When I had the SV every IL4 rider would take it past the optimum change point and think top end was totally gutless. But i have to admit I never find changing gear a chore or even something I think about even when on a 200 mile run, so I always have good power to play with anyway. I do miss that thump though

[lynw]

I dont think you can really compare. Its like comparing an apple to an orange... theyre two totally different things and I like both for different reasons...

But its just my personal preference is to the V twins rather than the IL4s.. :D

[Anonymous]

I dont think you can really compare. Its like comparing an apple to an orange... theyre two totally different things and I like both for different reasons...

:-s

:-s :-s

[mysteryjimbo]

I've owned a few more powerful bikes than the SV. Two are modern classics.

FZX750 Fazer (100bhp ish)
FZ750 Genesis (100bhp ish)
YZF600R Thundercat (100bhp)

I've also had these courtesy bikes

Fazer 1000cc (140bhp)
VFR800 (not sure)

I will be having a '97 GSXR600 in a few weeks too.

[mysteryjimbo]

Oh, and i've had my licence for 3 years! :lol: :lol:

[Skip]

YZF600R Thundercat (100bhp)
What did you make of the Thundercat jimbo? :)

[mysteryjimbo]

YZF600R Thundercat (100bhp)
What did you make of the Thundercat jimbo? :)

It's a lovely bike (mine was pinched). Not quite as nimble as the 'true' dedicated sports bikes. BUT it is a lot more comfortable when it comes to riding position and bike size. It feels spacious by comparison.

It easily keeps up with the newer bikes too.

[K]

I really enjoyed riding the Gaffa Ninja the past three months, short shifting mostly kept it fun, responsive and 'throwable' in the mid-range. I did feel like I wasn't really getting the best out of it though untill the last few weeks - which was good as I then got the Blade and was able to jump in half-way so to speak rather than learn with it from scratch.

I did feel like I got much more out of the SV every time I got back on it after Gaffa though. Everything was there waiting for me right through the range - BUT I think my experience on an IL4 made me use a VT to a greater degree of its potential than I had before.

To be honest, I was fine and having fun short-shifting it... but the appeal lies in the swift kick up the butt you get when you crank it at just the right moment.
A twin is smoother and so won't leave your stomach behind on the straight like a SS600.

[jamieclayton9]

had a 1999 zx6r in slimey limey

[Jelster]

A twin is smoother .

Both my twins have been fairly vibey, IL4's are much smoother. If you're talking about power delivery, then "most" modern SS600's are pretty smooth in that department too.

.

[Carsick]

A twin is smoother .

Both my twins have been fairly vibey, IL4's are much smoother. If you're talking about power delivery, then "most" modern SS600's are pretty smooth in that department too.

.
I'm thinking more specifically what K meant is that the torque curve is often alot flatter on a v-twin, giving relatively smooth power delivery throughout the rev range.
IL4s traditionally had peaky torque curves, though that is certainly changing these days (not a 600, but have you see the fireblade torque curve?)

[benHallowes]

I ride the chit out of my R6 and love it to bits!

FYI:

if IL4 SS600's don't have enough torque for you, then you're not riding it right! you have to keep the revs higher to make rapid progress - to slate a SS600 for that is like me damning an SV/ twin cos there's no power at 11k revs!!!

Both need a different approach...

[northwind]

Well said. I've had the same argument but the other way round on Visordown, never quite thought to turn it around so neatly.

[lynw]

A twin is smoother .

Both my twins have been fairly vibey, IL4's are much smoother. If you're talking about power delivery, then "most" modern SS600's are pretty smooth in that department too.

.

I think what K was getting at was what I found to be a difference between the SV and the CBR. Hit the power band on the CBR, and while smooth, it felt like I was launching down the road rather than the sedate [in comparison] acceleration of the twin... :D

[Warren]

I ride the chit out of my R6 and love it to bits!

FYI:

if IL4 SS600's don't have enough torque for you, then you're not riding it right! you have to keep the revs higher to make rapid progress - to slate a SS600 for that is like me damning an SV/ twin cos there's no power at 11k revs!!!

Both need a different approach...

Another point to make:

My bike spins up to nearly 15k. My the middle point of my rev range is therefor at about 7.5k.

The SV spins up to nearly 11k, leaving the middle point of the rev range at 5.5k.

Geddit... ?

goddit.

[Ed]

My Hornet only starts to wake up at 5K, comes alive at 6K+.

I've never ridden a SS600. But I'm in love with a red CBR600RR in the window of the Honda Centre here. For looks, it's the dogs.

[Jelster]

Another point to make:

My bike spins up to nearly 15k. The middle point of my rev range is therefor at about 7.5k.

The SV spins up to nearly 11k, leaving the middle point of the rev range at 5.5k.

Geddit... ?

Only 15k :lol:

Interestingly, although mine red lines @ 15,500 (hits the limiter @ 16,250) you really start feeling the power from about 8k... When I went to school 8000 was half of 16000, so I guess that MUST be all this mid-range that I'm not supposed to have :wink: :roll:

.

[Scoobs]

Interestingly, although mine red lines @ 15,500 (hits the limiter @ 16,250) you really start feeling the power from about 8k... When I went to school 8000 was half of 16000, so I guess that MUST be all this mid-range that I'm not supposed to have :wink: :roll:

.

And I think that is the rub. You have to go so much further up the rev range to get to the mid range. Fine if you don't mind the bike screaming all the time so you are in the sweet spot. It's just with the twin at 4k rpm it's right there.

I want to point out "again" that I am not knocking this. As I said previously, you need to adapt your style etc as the two configurations (V2 and IL4) are two completely different animals.

My next bike will almost certainly be a SS600, but I am also starting to seriously look at the litre twins of this world as well.

Oh and Jelster. Twins sound better than IL4's with a race can. :twisted:

[Jabba]

Can't be fagged reading all the posts in this thread so forgive me if this has already been said :roll: , but................


...........my Hornet has an engine from 1998 CBR 600 (OK, with different carbs and inlets) and is therefore a SS600 without a fairing, to my mind at least :lol:

My comment is part of the V2 vs IL4 debate. The reason that I went for a Hornet/IL4 was that I found it more tractable and forgiving at very low revs (circa 2k rpm), i.e. the Hornet pulls perfectly happily from 2k rpm in any gear apart from top; this was not the case with the SV/V2, which got snatchy/vibey and a bit bogged-down.

Yep, I know that one would normally ride at revs that low but at the time I was a total newbie and it was therefore a possibility. Trouble is, I've got used to it :roll:

[Warren]

i too had a bad habit of keeping the revs too low.
(on an ss600)
mainly cos if i ride within the correct rev range, it sounds like im raggin the engine to the max (bit of a screamer)

but an observed ride from the IAM sorted this out - and you soon get used to it, realising the benefits from keeping your revs up (instant power at your fingertips, and also instant engine braking that could slow you down in the time it takes your fingers and feet to reach the brakes)

i am finding that im using my brakes less and it has made me alot smoother.

and it soon becomes second nature if you make an active effort to keep your revs up at first.

[lynw]

Can't be fagged reading all the posts in this thread so forgive me if this has already been said :roll: , but................


...........my Hornet has an engine from 1998 CBR 600 (OK, with different carbs and inlets) and is therefore a SS600 without a fairing, to my mind at least :lol:

My comment is part of the V2 vs IL4 debate. The reason that I went for a Hornet/IL4 was that I found it more tractable and forgiving at very low revs (circa 2k rpm), i.e. the Hornet pulls perfectly happily from 2k rpm in any gear apart from top; this was not the case with the SV/V2, which got snatchy/vibey and a bit bogged-down.

Yep, I know that one would normally ride at revs that low but at the time I was a total newbie and it was therefore a possibility. Trouble is, I've got used to it :roll:

my SV pulls away on idle speed if I let it :D and I was in the habit of keeping the revs low on the CBR cos I hate hearing an engine screaming... I know theyre built for it but I just dont like it :oops: :D

Was starting to get past this with the CBR but then van man decided to put paid to that experiment. Still should either have that back or another CBR shortly to start again... :D

[Jelster]

i am finding that im using my brakes less and it has made me alot smoother.

Brakes ?? Oh those things for stopping you.... Do they slow you down as well ??

And Scoobs, sorry mate, don't agree with you about the sound. An IL4 screaming at 14k plus sounds just as good as the "Eky thump" of a V2, just different. (And I know which one I prefer to hear coming the straights of a circuit, and it's 2 cylinders more than a twin)

.

[Scoobs]

And IL6 screaming at 14k plus sounds just as good as the "Eky thump" of a V2, just different.

An In Line 6 huh!

Typical of a 4 cylinder bike rider. Feel they have to exagerate. Are you trying to over compensate for something Jelster??? :wink: :lol:

[northwind]

Like praactically everything else in this thread, it's all down to taste. Personally I think a nice deep v-twin sounds better at any point in the revs, but their killer app tends to be on overrun- nothing else pops and bangs as nicely as a vtwin engine braking :) But then I think that Sepultura sound better than Mozart, so who's to say what's right?

[Scoobs]

I've heard Jelsters bike at 14k when I went to Soho. It did sound pretty good, but I would never tell him that. :lol:

[Warren]

i prefer a V sound myself, but love the performance of my SS600.

[rictus01]

And IL6 screaming at 14k plus sounds just as good as the "Eky thump" of a V2, just different.

An In Line 6 huh!

Typical of a 4 cylinder bike rider. Feel they have to exagerate. Are you trying to over compensate for something Jelster??? :wink: :lol:

Na, he's just talking about a pair of triumph Triples, that's all :lol:

[K]

IL6... isn't that a Goldwing?! :?

[Peter Henry]

Goldwings do not scream fellas,it is definitely not allowed! :lol:

Bike sound is obviously subjective,but at the end of the day we are actually talking about exhaust sounds at screaming rev levels. Vee's and IL4's all sound great to my ear,but obviously we will all have our preferences.
It was great listening to the different sounds emitting from the various configurations at the Jerez Moto GP. Both on blasting up the rev range and on decelleration,brilliant! :wink: 8)

[RandyO]

IL6... isn't that a Goldwing?! :?

wings are boxer/flat opposing 6s

there was a couple of inline 6 bikes back in the 70's

[Peter Henry]

Randy..Are you referring to the Honda CBX1000? What a bike! Wasnt the Kawasaki Z1300 a 6 cylinder also? But that was water cooled? :wink:

[K]

IL6... isn't that a Goldwing?! :?

wings are boxer/flat opposing 6s

there was a couple of inline 6 bikes back in the 70's

Heh heh, all I knew was that I dish out 6 spark plugs to the guys when they have a wing in for service. :oops: :wink:

[Itching 2 go]

well, I have a Thundercat. Now if you like you can call it a ss600 but to be honest its more a sptourer600 tho the power gets delivered in a similar way to the ss600's.

I hate the power delivery, I have hated it since I bought it! I hate the screaming banshee moise it makes when you wanna go!

I have rider other 600's of the ss neked and tourer variety and I hate them all. My first proper bike was a bandit 6 which I loved and rode like a thug on speed but that was all I knew other than an unreliable 400 twin.

The TL was a big change in riding style, mainly because it had an extra 40bhp but also because of the way it put the power down. Its the one bike I will remember and regret getting rid of.

I frequently jump between sv's and 600's nowdays and keep toying with the idea of actually getting an SV. The only thing stopping me is my financial situation. I get more miles per litre out of my cat than I would out of a SV.

All the arguments about where the power is delivered are pointless if you are suggesting that these ss600 do have good strong mid range.

Typically the complaints are actually refering to the amount you have to rev the engine to get to the midrange not the fact that it doesn't have one. The only trouble with this is that people always refer to the problem being a lack of mid range. Yes as a ratio of revs to revrange the mid range is good in both engine configurations and tuinig desires of the manufacturer, however this does not really solve the argument about needing to rev harder to get to the midrange.

My personal preferance at this moment in my riding career is towards the v twin however this does not offer me the fuel economy I require in order to survive. I if I had the money I would own probably 2 bikes both twins, my main daily use bike would be a SV with some suspension mods and a couple of tuning mods(full system and air filter with power commander or similar) and my fun wanna go out for a blat bike would be a litre twin(not wishing to suggest that the SV aint a fun bike I wouldnt want one if it wernt would I?).

well thats my opinion and I fully expect to hear 'your entilted to it but your wrong!' please do say this I am in the mood to have a fresh debate this week :D

btw Northwind, Jelster is called Steve I am called Joe :evil:

[Jelster]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Joe, people get confused about midrange because they are so used to the behaviour of the SV. I also empathise with the "screaming banshee moise" as I to get tired of the constant noise it makes which is great fun when you're in the mood for it, but if you're riding the bike every day it does get a bit tiresome.

Looking back, I have to say that, apart from the suspension set up and the poor reliability, I enjoyed my Falco. But, a big twin drinks fuel, and even on tick over the noise was too much at 6:30 in the morning. I can however get on with the power delivery from the Gixer. It's smooth, glitch free, and dependable; never catching me out, which allows me to have confidence in my riding.

I would like to have both, an IL4 and a vee twin, and enjoy the rewards that both have to offer.

.

[northwind]

btw Northwind, Jelster is called Steve I am called Joe :evil:

You know, I'd not actually looked at the name over the post, I'd just looked at the avatar and thought it was you! I've probably been getting the 2 of you confused for ages since you've both got very similiar but distinctive pics... Sorry about that!

[timwilky]

And IL6 screaming at 14k plus sounds just as good as the "Eky thump" of a V2, just different.

An In Line 6 huh!

Typical of a 4 cylinder bike rider. Feel they have to exagerate. Are you trying to over compensate for something Jelster??? :wink: :lol:

I used to ride a Moto Martin CBX, Now that was a big lump with them 2 extra pots but not as big as my smile