View Full Version : Did I do a bad thing? (long)
howardr
02-06-05, 09:10 AM
I've seen and heard of far worse, but I thought I'd share a little experience I had on the way to work this morning.
Filtering through stationary traffic near Trafalgar Square and the gap between the lanes is effectively blocked by a Renault Clio who's 'sticking out' a little too far to get past. So I crawl alongside his car, exhaust pipe burbling gently to announce my presence, and notice him glance briefly to his right - so he knows I'm there. I look across to see if I can catch his eye - there's about 4ft of empty road in front of him and I'm hoping he'll do the nice thing and pull forward slightly to allow me to proceed.
Looking down, I see he's texting someone on his mobile and (in my view) deliberately ignoring me. Now, seeing as he's using a mobile phone illegally and taking his total lack of any concern for my predicament as an act of provocation, I decide to fold back his wing mirror so I can get past.
This is the first (and last, I hope) time I have ever done this.
The second I moved his mirror he became quite agitated. I slowly moved my bike past his mirror and carefully returned it to it's usual position - no harm done. By this time he's trying to get out of the car - but guess what? - my bike's still next to his car. So his door hits the side of my bike and I yell "Oy!" as my bike gently knocks against the taxi on my right. Figuring that I had not hit the taxi hard enough to cause any damage to either my bike or him I decide to just pootle on through the traffic.
Looking in my mirror as I go, I see him out of his car, either deciding to try and chase after me or getting my number. I sat patiently at the traffic lights to see if anything was going to happen, but it seems he just got back in his car.
Problem is, I'm now beating myself up over this. I'm very-much a "do as you would be done by" kinda person and, I admit, I wouldn't want anyone moving the mirrors on my bike (or car for that matter) BUT I also wouldn't deliberately ignore someone trying to get through the traffic whilst texting someone on a mobile phone. I'm afraid it was just one of 'those moments'.
Did I do wrong? Should I have been more patient? Will an ASBO land on my doormat in a couple of days?
Help me out here ...
creamerybutter
02-06-05, 09:26 AM
It's hardly crime of the century but I doubt I would have done it as there are some right nutters on the road and there are some that would have slammed the door into you to try and knock you off.
A bloke followed us (the misses and I in the car) just because she beeped him when he cut her up, he was going left out of the car park we were in and we were going right but then cut up two other people so he could turn around and drove on our bumper flashing his lights!
Cloggsy
02-06-05, 09:26 AM
There comes a time in everyones life when they have to learn to say '**** it :!:' IMHO this is such a time :!: Bollox to him :wink:
hmmm...i did almost exactly the same thing at the junction of admiralty arch and trafalgar square.
i decided to report it to the police station. the reason - if there is damage to the other vehicle, no matter how slight, you could be arrested and charged with all sorts of misdemeanours.
my theory was if i reported it first, it gave me the moral high ground, and hopefully the rozzers would call me as opposed turning up in a panda car at my home address.
in the end i heard nothing, but the helpful copper i spoke to confirmed that this was the right thing to do.
in my case, i am afraid i lost it, and inexplicably the cars wing mirror came off so iwas bricking it big time. nothing came of it.
hth
Well look at it like this:
Was anyone hurt? No.
Was there any form of accident? No.
Was anyone compromised in terms of road safety? No.
Did someone use a mobile phone illegally? Yes.
Did someone act selfishly with no concern for others? Yes.
Did someone act in such a way that your bike could have been damaged? Yes.
So er what's the problem? I mean you even folded the freakin' mirror back FFS! :wink:
.
I agree with will. Report it and you are at least covered if anything comes of it.
I ran someone over a few years back when they were trying to punch me over the top of the windscreen in my Pug 205 Cab. (I'd beeped him for cutting me up). Went straight to the police station only to be told if I'd got his number plate I could have had him prosecuted for criminal damage...
About 6 weeks later I got a letter through the post saying as they couln't trace the other driver it was being dropped.
Forget about it.
However, I wouldn't do it. You never know what nutters are out there.
howardr
02-06-05, 09:47 AM
hmmm...i did almost exactly the same thing at the junction of admiralty arch and trafalgar square.
EXACTLY where this happened!
Thanks for the supportive comments people. It has helped enormously. I don't know whether or not I'll report it. I didn't get his number, so I don't know how much use it would be. Alternatively he may decide to make something up and report me for scratching his car or something - as I crawled past him I did notice he had a scratch along the top of his offside front wing - he may be looking for a scapegoat to get it fixed. :shock:
Still probably best to do the 'proper' thing and report it ...
hmmm...i did almost exactly the same thing at the junction of admiralty arch and trafalgar square.
EXACTLY where this happened!
...
an annoying junction - i bet you are talking about the bit where it narrows to go thru the arch? cars really seem to resent letting the bikes through there. i now avoid that bit.
good luck with whatver you decide to do
454697819
02-06-05, 10:21 AM
In fairness i would have probably got adgitated (sp) if sum one had bent my mirror bike...although the only thing i might have done was knock on his window and ask if he wouldnt mind moving outa that way for a sec (if this was possible)
other than that, bugger him... and dont worry about it.....at the end of the day unless u damaged it i seriously doubt anything would happen...
Chill 8)
Personally I wouldn't have done it but probably no harm done.
I have to say I would be really ****ed if someone messed with my car, even if it is just to move the mirror and yes I would take a note of their registration number and would probably follow it up with something. However, I always leave plenty of room for bikes so its never happened.
If you can't comfortably get through a gap then you shouldn't 'have a go' and just shrug your shoulders if you hit a car. There is nothing wrong with a little patience in my opinion.
Peter Henry
02-06-05, 10:48 AM
In the crazy world that is the U.K. I guess your actions could have provoked a reaction that was way over the top! In my red mist moments I would have been tempted to do the same as you and if his window was open snatch his mobile and throw it as far as I could! :wink:
But these days it just aint worth it. He was a complete ignorant **** and you just got a bit miffed. Forget it Howard! :wink: 8)
richwill68
02-06-05, 10:52 AM
Don't worry too much mate. Tell plod if you think there may be repurcussions. Do learn from the experience though. Remember, even with complete tossers deliberately hindering your progress, you will arrive at your destination quicker by bike than car :D .
Try not to aggravate people though; society as a whole is becoming an increasingly violent place with trivial occurences resulting in confrontation. If you mess with other peoples stuff, be prepared to fight it out in the streets. :twisted:
Oh yeah, and some people don't fight fair (broken nose x 6, black eyes, concussion, split lip, bust knuckles...the list goes on. Been there several times, done that in a distant youth, ain't worth it Bro', honestly!). :wink:
Ride free and keep yourself safe :riding:
Rich
howardr
02-06-05, 11:03 AM
Yeah, "coulda, shoulda, woulda" but somehow it just seemed to be an OK thing to do at the time.
I've relaxed a bit more now - mostly thanks to you wonderful people.
It's not something I would normally do and it's not something I have any intention of repeating. Like I said, I wouldn't like it if it happened to me.
Anyhoo, I've decided not to bother reporting it. As Greg said, there was no accident, no damage and no-one got hurt, so what's to report?
If he makes something up, my not reporting it may work in my favour, as I didn't consider there was any reason (are you following this?) because nothing worth reporting happened.
Couriers regularly plough straight through these gaps and simply smash the mirror off as they pass. :shock:
Being a generally honest, upright bloke, having such a conscience can sometimes be a real pain in the *rse!
mysteryjimbo
02-06-05, 11:15 AM
I'd have slapped his mirror back. Given him the finger. The ridden off into the sunset. 8) 8)
blacksheep
02-06-05, 11:44 AM
I wouldn't have done that, and you probably would have been p*ssed off if the roles had been reversed. Suppose the mirror had come off in your hand? If you don't want people touching your bike (and I'm sure you don't) then the same rule has to apply to you doesn't it.
Him being on the phone is completely irellevant. I'd have got out of the car and at least given you an ear full.
Jelster
02-06-05, 11:56 AM
Howard, I know I can be a little "agresive" in my behavoir in such a situation. However I think I wold have lifted my visor and tapped on the window, asking if he could move.
However from what you say I doubt if he had of paid any attention anyway. Gently folding back his mirror is not a crime, he was actually preventing you from using the highway, which is..... (I know I got done for that many years ago... :roll: ).
It's a typical ituation faced by London commuters every day, if HE want's to commute he must realise that he needs to share the road with others, if not, he may get his mirrors folded back :D
Forget about it and mov on
.
howardr
02-06-05, 12:00 PM
Unfortunately (for me) blacksheep, you're totally right - this is why I'm stressing out about the whole thing.
I can only console myself with the fact that no harm WAS done and that - hopefully - that's it. Lesson learnt for me I think. :oops:
Act in haste, repent at leisure. :?
It's hardly crime of the century, but not necessarily the best course of action. If, as you say, it's not what you would normally do then you've let your anger / frustration / other get the better of you and that's not the sort of thing you want to do when vulnerable and exposed on a bike.
I always remind myself that there are '000s of real idiots out there that are always prepared to escalate things out of proportion and doing something to agitate them ain't a good idea.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking the moral high ground as I've also over stepped the mark on a number of occasions... and regretted it afterwards.
SVeeedy Gonzales
02-06-05, 12:38 PM
Screw him... touching someone else's vehicle is no crime, so long as you don't damage it.
You didn't do any damage, but looks like he may well have (to his car, your bike, the taxi or all three, on some level). The texting just goes to prove he's a ****, as does making no effort to move for someone else.
If it had been me I'd have probably waited there for him to move unless I could have gotten round another way, or else folded my mirrors in (guy on a 'busa I see does this and he gets through the traffic very quickly).
I've had several people open their windows and pull their mirros in for me whilst waiting... most just play the "I'm not looking!" game and so I wait, trying to work out whether they're just being thick or deliberately selfish... then I'm off and a few seconds later they're way behind me. Not generally worth the hassle to fight my way past... the living in fear for a while (ok, a few minutes...) afterwards of some sort of repercussion.
I doubt you'll get any hassles though, what's the guy going to say? That you distracted his texting because he was blocking your progress and so he was forced to illegally open his door into the traffic, cause damage to maybe 3 vehicles and attempt to start a road rage incident. I'm pretty sure the law says you don't have to stop if it looks like RR is imminent, but if you're concerned, get to the cop shop and get it on record.
Personally I'd be most worried about the cabbie claiming, as he's got some sort of ground as an innocent victim of it all, but they pick up plenty of dents anyway, he'll probably ignore it as it won't be worth his time and effort to chase.
I've seen 'mates' knock off wing mirrors, scratch and kick car doors and panels, smash lights, etc. when they've nearly been taken out by the car in question, nothing ever came of it, law-wise. Think most car drivers know that they're best keeping quiet as they were in the wrong.
Sorry it's a long one... :oops:
SVeeedy Gonzales
02-06-05, 12:39 PM
ps no, you didn't do a bad thing, just came across the wrong person, in the wrong place at the wrong time. Generally that's alright so long as shortly afterwards you're heading away from them at a higher speed than they can travel at.
I'd have snapped his mirror off.
Me too, mate :thumbsup:
howardr
02-06-05, 01:22 PM
Thanks all for your words of encouragement :) ... a lot happier now.
or broke the mirror off completly a similiar thing happ to me years ago ,i was cut up and nearly ran off the road(i was beeping the horn but he was in a world of his own).when i came alongside at lights (a bit ****ed off!) he gave me the finger!!!!!!so i slapped his mirror and it broke big time and rode off(he tried but couldnt catch me as the roads were busy)everyone around seen this happ and iv never heard a word about it.served him right could have forced me off :thumbsup:
Flamin_Squirrel
02-06-05, 01:54 PM
or broke the mirror off completly a similiar thing happ to me years ago ,i was cut up and nearly ran off the road(i was beeping the horn but he was in a world of his own).when i came alongside at lights (a bit p*ssed off!) he gave me the finger!!!!!!so i slapped his mirror and it broke big time and rode off(he tried but couldnt catch me as the roads were busy)everyone around seen this happ and iv never heard a word about it.served him right could have forced me off :thumbsup:
I think it was a VFR owner who did something similar after nearly being run off the road. The person who nearly killed the guy reported him for breaking the mirror - the rider got done for criminal damage and dangerous driving I think it was. Big fine and a 2 year ban.
mysteryjimbo
02-06-05, 02:01 PM
I'd have snapped his mirror off.
Me too, mate :thumbsup:
You've a nasty habit of twisting words...... :lol:
Last Action Pimp
02-06-05, 05:41 PM
if it was me i would of kicked his door in & called him a w*nker and told him not to use his mobile.
but thats just me
You did the right thing, dont feel guilty about it
you got to chill a bit more and get used to it if youre riding in central London tbh.
Expect selfish ********s to block you and just chill cos you'll get past them eventually.
If you provoke a situation you could end up in the circumstances where a guys got you by the neck and saying hes got a knife in the car as happened to one member of this forum or get thumped if you encounter Mr psycho van man as I did.
I wouldve been tempted to lean in and grab his phone and then chuck it on the floor. Like to see him explain to a copper on his complaint why it was reachable in the first place. But like my brake fluid spray thinking, Im better than that so wont do it.
Just accept there are idiots out there and nutters too... do you really want to find out its your unlucky day and youve got the nutter with the knife on your hands? :?
kwak zzr
02-06-05, 09:27 PM
fraid i would have dis-mounted my trusty steed and proceeded to DRAG HIM FROM HIS CAR AND BLOODED THE F**KERS NOSE!
everyone hates a ****!! :twisted:
fraid i would have dis-mounted my trusty steed and proceeded to DRAG HIM FROM HIS CAR AND BLOODED THE F**KERS NOSE!
everyone hates a ****!! :twisted:
and people wonder why some car drivers hate bikers? :roll: :P :D
and you'd then be in the wrong and facing assault and other charges. Imho you'd be no better than van man assaulting me at my accident because you cant keep your temper and chill.
Its LONDON. Traffic is ****e, drivers dont look or have any consideration, so deal with it in a manner thats not likely to upset a driver enough to take his anger or frustration out on the next biker that comes past. :?
I used to get wound up til I realised bad driving is a constant factor in London. The only one suffering was me cos of the stress of getting angry. So I learnt a few things to make me chill, ride on and get to work safely without having the prospect of someone get out of a car armed and angry.
And one thing in London Ive found, you may get ahead but the way some sets of lights work you may suddenly find the guy you've got away from up your tail again... :? :shock: :(
Yep. London. Dont think i've moved anyones mirrors clipped a few though. Not sure i would want to move them though.
Although one night on my way to soho, someone was deliberly blocking me, i knocked on his window to ask him to move and he started shouting and threatend to kill me. I found a gap VERY quickly after that and i've never filtered quicker.
I dont bother anymore. One thing that reaffirmed this, i was filtering moved over into the right hand lane (dual carrageway london solid traffic). Guy rolls foward on purpose and traps my leg in his wheel arch. I knock on his bonett with my fist, he starts reverseing. Knock again. Finally free myself and hes more intrested in taking my number about possible damage to his bonnett! he also was very rude towards me. :(
I just accept if i cant move, sod it i'll be 2mins later than normal.
Dan
Yep. London. Dont think i've moved anyones mirrors clipped a few though. Not sure i would want to move them though.
Although one night on my way to soho, someone was deliberly blocking me, i knocked on his window to ask him to move and he started shouting and threatend to kill me. I found a gap VERY quickly after that and i've never filtered quicker.
I dont bother anymore. One thing that reaffirmed this, i was filtering moved over into the right hand lane (dual carrageway london solid traffic). Guy rolls foward on purpose and traps my leg in his wheel arch. I knock on his bonett with my fist, he starts reverseing. Knock again. Finally free myself and hes more intrested in taking my number about possible damage to his bonnett! he also was very rude towards me. :(
I just accept if i cant move, sod it i'll be 2mins later than normal.
Dan
had that too and scared the crap out of me. And thats the guy that still caught up with me at the lights cos I got held while most traffic went towards a12... :shock: :? :(
I'm the same as most others view. I would have just waited and thought what a **** he was and hoped that he got nicked for using his mobile.
However, I have had the red mist come down on several occasions. I had a woman pull out on me from the right, straight in to my path. You know that moment when you look at her, she looks right back at you, but you just know that she didn't see you? As I pulled level with her she was in the middle of texting. So with a twist of the throttle and a swing of the left fist, I took her mirror clean off. Well she obviously wasn't using it.
I know that I was completely in the wrong to do it, but what the hell, she nearly had me off good and proper. :x :x
I have to date about 5 wing mirrors taken off completely and 3 mirrors smashed. Never had anything come back from any of them. YET.
Well she obviously wasn't using it.
:lol:
.
Well she obviously wasn't using it.
:lol:
.
First idea she had that I even existed was when I dismantled her mirror. :x :x
Flamin_Squirrel
02-06-05, 10:59 PM
I have to date about 5 wing mirrors taken off completely and 3 mirrors smashed. Never had anything come back from any of them. YET.
:lol: Nice one. Just don't get caught :wink:
i was in a similar situation and chose patience rather than moving the mirror. I got my foot rolled over :shock:
haha. i've had my foot run over by an SUV. he edged over it as he got quite annoyed by my filtering. i'm sure he did it on purpose. i was hammering on his window as the red mist came down, but he just sat there. you know, staring forwards, thinking if i don't look at him, he will go away. i drove at 15mph to the next set of lights in front of him, then blasted off. i know i'm immature....
it runs in the family though. my old man asked a lad in his "maxed" clio to move over a tad for him to get through, in kingston, and the bloke told him to f*ck himself. i was riding behind him. so he just opens it up and cracks his wing mirror straight off and blasts down the road leaving me sitting there. so i thought, oh well, why not, and did the same, running over his mirror. moron.
SVeeedy Gonzales
03-06-05, 07:53 AM
Last night while waiting at the lights for the blackwall tunnel I pull up next to this Peugeot (can't get past) and look over and blow me - he's texting or fiddling with some gadget. I'm waiting there and then after a few seconds he seems to snap out of a trance and see me there, then moves the car over so I can get by... goes to prove that even if they're daft for texting (or whatever) they can still notice you and take some helpful action.
Think kicking his door in would have been a less effective way of getting past :D
Captain Nemo
03-06-05, 08:10 AM
i feel that you acted totally incorrectly, what gives you the right to mess with the mans motor !!!!! :cry:
the correct form of action would have been to politely smash the guys window, drag his screaming ass through it, and beat him to death with his own phone. :twisted:
although i have been known to overreact occasionly... :oops:
i feel that you acted totally incorrectly, what gives you the right to mess with the mans motor !!!!! :cry:
the correct form of action would have been to politely smash the guys window, drag his screaming ass through it, and beat him to death with his own phone. :twisted:
although i have been known to overreact occasionly... :oops:
Funny :lol:
Ceri JC
03-06-05, 12:08 PM
I accidentaly clipped a 4x4 at some lights with my mirror (it would have been dangerous for me to stop where I was rather than get to the front and he didn't help the situ by not pulling over to let me by). I waved an apology and pressed on. At the first safe point after the lights, I pulled over to wait for him in case he wanted to complain/if his vehicle was scratched etc. he drove by and didn't make eye contact. I waited a couple of minutes for him to turn around and come back, he didn't. For a few days I was worried about a letter through the post, but nothing came of it. I suppose he shot himself in the foot if there was any damage (other than to my already scuffed mirrors) by leaving the scene of an 'accident' :)
SVeeedy Gonzales
03-06-05, 12:39 PM
If I clip mirrors I never stop... I never intend to clip them and it's only ever minor. Hanging around after is just asking for road rage IMHO... maybe a waved apology if I can but that's rare.
Ever notice the very large number of cars/vans in London with smashed wing mirrors? I'm sure it's not all down to bikes but I'd figure they're the number one culprit. Some drivers bring it upon themselves, but I always figure that actively smashing one only makes them even worse - not only are they a bad driver but now they have even less chance of seeing a bike...
Not sure how I woulda reacted, but Car vs Bike, the car wins. So I'd try to keep somewhat calm and get away from the ignorant and dangerous cager.
Also, consider that if I break the mirror kick in the door and get off, there's a huge posibility that the enraged cager will take out his anger on some other, totally innocent biker instead.
Short answer:
Nah. You gently moved it, then put it back. No harm done.
Anyone who would get angry about that needs to take a good long look at what really matters in life.
howardr
03-06-05, 02:16 PM
Short answer:
Nah. You gently moved it, then put it back. No harm done.
Anyone who would get angry about that needs to take a good long look at what really matters in life.
Thanks Ping ... looks like you're on my wavelength. :D
Hehe I could have gone one better than you Howard the other week. Was like you, filtering through 2 lines of stationery traffic. Came up behind two estate cars who are both sat close to the central line so patiently sit there waiting for one to do the nice thing and move over. So they dont :roll:
Waited about 10-15 secs then thought sod it so slowly started to squeeze down the gap, was tight but not dangerous. Not once did I do anything aggressive like rev my engine. Just as im passing, the car on the lefts window comes down and out pops a police badge. Undercover car! :-dd
As I wasnt doing anything illegal or dangerous I thought thats nice and gave him a little wave as I went past! for a split second I did consider swiping his badge and legging it but thought better of it :lol:
Would have made a nice ornament. Dont worry about the mirror thing, im surprised the muppet even noticed you doing it. You gave him chance to move over, its tough **** in my book
creamerybutter
03-06-05, 02:53 PM
Short answer:
Nah. You gently moved it, then put it back. No harm done.
Anyone who would get angry about that needs to take a good long look at what really matters in life.
They do but unfortunately there are people out there that would completely loose it if you touch their car, It's bad but it's true.
Short answer:
Nah. You gently moved it, then put it back. No harm done.
Anyone who would get angry about that needs to take a good long look at what really matters in life.
They do but unfortunately there are people out there that would completely loose it if you touch their car, It's bad but it's true.
Agreed. Common sense is out the window... :P Tho howardr still hasn't done anything wrong in my books and should in no way be feeling guilty/worried or anything like that. :D
kwak zzr
03-06-05, 04:47 PM
LYNW is right try to keep your cool!
just as long as it aint you getting involved in
an accident with some **** on his phone.
daz (midlands)
once my shoulder clipped a mirror of a 4*4 (he actually clipped me as he drove off) but i was in his blind spot as the lights went green so i recon it was my fault.
i sped off anyway, for a moment i worried about whether or not i should have stopped - to see if it was damaged at all, went back and the guy was parked there on the side, just as i pull up - he gets out and goes into a shop. and i drive off.
later that day - a policeman knocks on my front door and asks to speak with me,
brown trousering it thinking that i would get charged with not stopping after an accident - turns out the police are here on a seperate matter (i witnessed a fight)
nothing came from it - moral of the story.
im too much of a pussy to endulge in road rage :)
Steve W
03-06-05, 09:10 PM
Reading this thread makes me glad I don't ride in London as on the whole I suspect drivers are a bit more relaxed up north...
I'd agree that the main points are:
(a) no you did nothing wrong but
(b) you risk the driver being a nutter
(c) you will still get there quciker than the car even if you wait
(d) you're more vulnerable on a bike than in a car so more worthwile trying to avoid 'losing' it and
(e) the more bikers who 'lose it the more thae anti-bike lobby is fed.
I find I'm more likely to get wound up and risk 'losing' it when driving the car than riding the bike so may be we have to feel sorry for the poor b*ggers who only have cars... :wink:
Godikus
03-06-05, 09:37 PM
there are people out there that would completely loose it if you touch their car, It's bad but it's true.
yup, and there are people who would completely loose it if someone touched there bike... me being one :oops:
You done nothing wrong. you should be proud! don't let them cars push you around cause there bigger than you :wink:
creamerybutter
03-06-05, 09:46 PM
there are people out there that would completely loose it if you touch their car, It's bad but it's true.
yup, and there are people who would completely loose it if someone touched there bike... me being one :oops:
You done nothing wrong. you should be proud! don't let them cars push you around cause there bigger than you :wink:
I think it really depended what they did to it, a guy at work moved my mirror because someone else had parked badly and they needed to be a bit closer to my bike than usual and there was no harm done so I didn't mind. The bloke I found sitting on it while it was parked outside my halls..now that’s a different matter :evil:
The point I was making is there are people that would have really lost it if he did what he did to their car even though it did no damage.
Red ones
03-06-05, 09:50 PM
I still can't believe you folded the mirror back out!!!! (Got to admit I have now whacked 3 cars in the past 3 months with my bars and folded their mirrors back in the process) (ooops)
Godikus
03-06-05, 09:55 PM
I think it really depended what they did to it, a guy at work moved my mirror because someone else had parked badly and they needed to be a bit closer to my bike than usual and there was no harm done so I didn't mind. The bloke I found sitting on it while it was parked outside my halls..now that’s a different matter :evil:
The point I was making is there are people that would have really lost it if he did what he did to their car even though it did no damage.
I find it's the small things that can really get to you. especialy if your stuck in a que of traffic, going nowhere. it's when people flick my killswitch when i'm not around i really hate.
i don't think there is much to worry about even if the guy was a nutter. he wouldn't be able to do too much harm. what with the full protective gear (unless of course he had a gun, but that kind of nutter tends to drive a bmw or something worth 50 quid that belches out black smoke) in the que he couldn't drive after you.
i definetly think you done the right thing
I find it's the small things that can really get to you. especialy if your stuck in a que of traffic, going nowhere. it's when people flick my killswitch when i'm not around i really hate.
Never had that happen to me ever... :?
i don't think there is much to worry about even if the guy was a nutter. he wouldn't be able to do too much harm. what with the full protective gear (unless of course he had a gun, but that kind of nutter tends to drive a bmw or something worth 50 quid that belches out black smoke) in the que he couldn't drive after you.
I beg to differ on this. The fact that one member of this forum has been held with hands round the throat with a guy threatneing a knife and me being assaulted by white van man is a good indication of the level of road rage out there, particularly in London.
Equally, I had a guy in a beamer have a go. I told him to **** off and other words to that effect and gunned it down City Road leaving an irate person behind safe in the knowledge he wouldnt catch up with me.
Left at Old Street roundabout and pulled up at a set of lights to go down Commercial Street. Thinking Id left Mr Beamer behind only to realise most of the traffic was filtering off to a side turning. Hence me having a very uncomfortable feeling when Mr Beamer pulled up inches from my rear continuing to have a go. :shock: :? :evil:
Moral of this is:
1. By the time you find out the guys a psycho and armed its too late... better to let it be and just dont make the situation worse.
2. Just cos youre on a bike and can filter does not mean to say you are guaranteed getting away from said nutter, especially with traffic lights in London.
3. Nutters dont care what they do to you. Even with all your gear, you will come off worse if they hit you with the car/van. Id rather not risk it these days.
Its very hard to control the red mist, but having been through something as traumatic and terrifying as what happened with van man I really really really dont want to go through it again.
But maybe its just London drivers... :? :evil:
Godikus
03-06-05, 10:24 PM
I find it's the small things that can really get to you. especialy if your stuck in a que of traffic, going nowhere. it's when people flick my killswitch when i'm not around i really hate.
Never had that happen to me ever... :?
I beg to differ on this. The fact that one member of this forum has been held with hands round the throat with a guy threatneing a knife and me being assaulted by white van man is a good indication of the level of road rage out there, particularly in London.
Equally, I had a guy in a beamer have a go. I told him to p*ss off and other words to that effect and gunned it down City Road leaving an irate person behind safe in the knowledge he wouldnt catch up with me.
Left at Old Street roundabout and pulled up at a set of lights to go down Commercial Street. Thinking Id left Mr Beamer behind only to realise most of the traffic was filtering off to a side turning. Hence me having a very uncomfortable feeling when Mr Beamer pulled up inches from my rear continuing to have a go. :shock: :? :evil:
Moral of this is:
1. By the time you find out the guys a psycho and armed its too late... better to let it be and just dont make the situation worse.
2. Just cos youre on a bike and can filter does not mean to say you are guaranteed getting away from said nutter, especially with traffic lights in London.
3. Nutters dont care what they do to you. Even with all your gear, you will come off worse if they hit you with the car/van. Id rather not risk it these days.
Its very hard to control the red mist, but having been through something as traumatic and terrifying as what happened with van man I really really really dont want to go through it again.
But maybe its just London drivers... :? :evil:
Yeah, they flick my kill switch all he time. first few times i never thaught about the switch for about half an hour. a mate done it while at traffic light too. really gets on my T*ts
sorry to say that it sounds like thats more of a london problem. around glasgow the drivers are usualy quite sudate. Most people in glasgow that are violent enough to think about taking a knife with them, will almost definetly not be able to aford a car. and if they could, they wouldn't be in a car that could keep up (unless it's stolen). I'm just saying. with all the gear you stand a far greater chance hand to hand. especialy the way knuckles on gloves are getting these days.
What did i say about BMW's and violent, armed people :wink:
it's when people flick my killswitch when i'm not around i really hate.
Ah the good old kill switch trick. It was so much fun in them days of old. We used to do it quite a bit when I was in Germany. All lined up at the lights waiting for the green light to see who could get away first. As the lights changed, just casually lean over flick the switch and gone. :lol: :lol:
I guess it must have been that squaddy humour :roll: :roll:
Godikus
03-06-05, 11:24 PM
Heh, yeash. it's all fun n' games till a certain mate goes for the killswitch, gets stopped. takes my keys, and throws them over the road :roll:
I'm sorry, but I can't believe there are a number of you that think its ok to damage a car and just drive off! How would you feel if someone ripped off a part of your bike and just waved and shrugged their shoulders?
Damage to a side mirror for my car starts at £200. Yes I would be really ****ed if someone decided to try and move it because they couldn't bare to wait 5 minutes for a suitable gap.
I always leave room for bikes. I frequently drive through the Blackwall Tunnel and its an awful approach for cars let alone bikes so I deliberately leave a nice big space for bikes to be able to get through. On one occasion I did this and got waved thanks by a couple of bikers, the third one through, however, misjudged it and hit the bumper of my car with his engine bars, and all he did was shrug, wave and move off as quickly as possible. If he had scratched it, it would cost £300 to fix.
Damage to a side mirror for my car starts at £200. Yes I would be really p*ssed if someone decided to try and move it because they couldn't bare to wait 5 minutes for a suitable gap.
Good. If somoene was deliberatly blocking my path because im on a bike and should wait in line. or Because there too busy on the phone they deserve everything they get.
I was almost taken out yesterday on my way home guy in a car on the phone. He was more concerned that i was swareing with his kids in the car. "I can use the phone while i drive, if i want" was his answer. Urgh it just makes my blood boil
Damage to a side mirror for my car starts at £200. Yes I would be really p*ssed if someone decided to try and move it because they couldn't bare to wait 5 minutes for a suitable gap.
Good. If somoene was deliberatly blocking my path because im on a bike and should wait in line. or Because there too busy on the phone they deserve everything they get.
If they are deliberately blocking you then whatever goes! :twisted: But if its a case of its just how the car happens to be, then I don't think its acceptable. On occasion I've accidently had the car slightly out to one side which has blocked bikers, I've corrected that as soon as possible. *shrug* **** happens, bikes and cars share the road, neither have priority.
Damage to a side mirror for my car starts at £200. Yes I would be really p*ssed if someone decided to try and move it because they couldn't bare to wait 5 minutes for a suitable gap.
Good. If somoene was deliberatly blocking my path because im on a bike and should wait in line. or Because there too busy on the phone they deserve everything they get.
If they are deliberately blocking you then whatever goes! :twisted: But if its a case of its just how the car happens to be, then I don't think its acceptable. On occasion I've accidently had the car slightly out to one side which has blocked bikers, I've corrected that as soon as possible. *shrug* sh*t happens, bikes and cars share the road, neither have priority.
Indeed... sometimes you have to take into account a car may have to go further over its lane because of a hazard you cant see. Or a cyclist or pedestrian... and not even cars.. as happened to me on the A13 a whacking great coach started pulling out on me to avoid something.... tipped the bike, but managed to avoid dropping it...
now the scooter boy revving impatiently to get past while I was in such a predicament would be the subject of another thread.... :evil:
Jelster
04-06-05, 12:03 PM
I'm sorry, but I can't believe there are a number of you that think its ok to damage a car and just drive off! How would you feel if someone ripped off a part of your bike and just waved and shrugged their shoulders?
But he didn't damage the car... He folded the mirror in on it's pivot, and then took the time to fold it back... When I get ********s who purposly block me from filtering I wack the mirroe back against it's pivot, so that the driver has to get out to put it back on. Why ? Because it's an inconvenience, just like the driver was when he was having fun blocking my progress...
Sorry Kate, can't see where you're coming from on this one. If somebody intentionally blocks you, they deserve all they get in my book....
.
As I said...
If they are deliberately blocking you then whatever goes! :twisted:
I'm talking about when bikers are filtering and accidently whack wing mirrors etc.
What happens if they are not deliberately blocking you, but have just happened to have the car too far on either side, does that give you permission to 'wack the mirroe back against it's pivot'? If you did that to my car then it is likely to damage the wing mirror. In which case, I would claim off your insurance for the damages.
So how do you determine if someones deliberately blocking you or has moved out of the way of an obstacle that you cant see? :? Sometimes I think bikers presume the deliberate blocking before they actually know if it is.
Whenever Ive whacked mirrors on the A2 its generally because Ive been going possibly too fast for the road conditions or its been a van with whacking great mirrors.
Surely the best thing is to a. not hit them in the first place and b. be going slow enough that you can maneouver through without whacking mirrors and c. consider pulling yours in?
When I go through traffic now I tend to actually pull mine in if theres a chance of whacking something... easy on a curvy, dont know about the pointy. That way I dont whack anyones mirror anymore so I dont risk being in this position.
A little courtesy, even if they dont deserve it, goes a long way. Makes you a better person than they are imho :D
So how do you determine if someones deliberately blocking you or has moved out of the way of an obstacle that you cant see? :? Sometimes I think bikers presume the deliberate blocking before they actually know if it is.
when the car driver looks over his shoulder to see you coming, then moves into your path. while the kids in the back are all laughin at you,
or if the driver sticks his finger up at you while moving over to block your path.
or if someone shouts "why cant you just wait your turn like everyone else?"
i think its fairly safe to assume that they are trying to stop you reaching your destination :)
when the car driver looks over his shoulder to see you coming, then moves into your path. while the kids in the back are all laughin at you,
or if the driver sticks his finger up at you while moving over to block your path.
or if someone shouts "why cant you just wait your turn like everyone else?"
i think its fairly safe to assume that they are trying to stop you reaching your destination :)
yeah think that would be a give away :lol: :lol: :lol:
but I never understand that. Someone else always lets you go and you almost always get past. Waste of time on their part really.... but Ive learnt to be patient and wait for the opportunity which will invariably arise. :D
SVeeedy Gonzales
04-06-05, 04:40 PM
If a rider goes past a car and hits the mirror by accident, with enough force to knock it right back, I'd suggest they avoid filtering. Clipping a mirror, tip-to-tip is certainly possible/likely but if your judgement can't work out a clear path vs hitting the other vehicle with enough force to maybe know you off the bike, best to not do it.
As for deliberately whacking them, it's a matter of personal taste... I feel like doing it a *lot* and never actually do it. I always feel slightly guilty when I clip mirrors, which is maybe once a day/80 miles on average.
I had another guy on Friday, sat there in a trance near Tower Bridge and after a few seconds he seemed to wake up, see me there and move over. I think it's largely down to people switching off when in their cars, though there are plenty of morons too... just be cautious about being too hasty and pushing someone from being switched off to being a moron. It must be a rude awakening when the first they realise that there's a bike there is when their mirror gets smacked or when someone moves their mirror, revs their engine, etc. Stuff like that can work but tends to upset people.
Flamin_Squirrel
04-06-05, 04:47 PM
I'm sorry, but I can't believe there are a number of you that think its ok to damage a car and just drive off! How would you feel if someone ripped off a part of your bike and just waved and shrugged their shoulders?
But he didn't damage the car... He folded the mirror in on it's pivot, and then took the time to fold it back... When I get ********s who purposly block me from filtering I wack the mirroe back against it's pivot, so that the driver has to get out to put it back on. Why ? Because it's an inconvenience, just like the driver was when he was having fun blocking my progress...
Sorry Kate, can't see where you're coming from on this one. If somebody intentionally blocks you, they deserve all they get in my book....
.
So I assume it would be ok for someone to move your gixer to make more room in a parking bay?
Professor
04-06-05, 04:55 PM
Having read this thread all I can say is that life in London makes you,
guys, very nervous. Should try to escape to the country more often.
Used to live in a big city many years ago and was also on edge all the
time. Did crazy things like once driving away with a security guard on the
bonnet of my car holding tight to my windscreen wipers :shock: (managed to
shake him off on a turn :thumbsup: ) etc etc. Now that I am old and (hopefully)
wise I try to take it easy. 8)
Jelster
04-06-05, 04:58 PM
So I assume it would be ok for someone to move your gixer to make more room in a parking bay?
It would a pain but OK to move my mirrors, not my bike... I think you are taking that a little out of context.
Anyway, I no longer use parking bays... I have secure covered parking where I work, and the only other reason I ride into London is to go to Soho... However when I did use them (on the Falco) I would often fold my mirrors in to make room, I’m the courteous sort you see :lol:
.
Flamin_Squirrel
04-06-05, 05:04 PM
So I assume it would be ok for someone to move your gixer to make more room in a parking bay?
It would a pain but OK to move my mirrors, not my bike... I think you are taking that a little out of context.
No I'm not. You like most people wouldn't like strangers laying their mitts on your property. Car drivers are no different. The fact they're irritating you is not an excuse.
Having read this thread all I can say is that life in London makes you, guys, very nervous. Should try to escape to the country more often.
Well said Prof.
Its only the London mob who seem to have problems. I very rarely encounter a vehicle in my way when filtering, and if it is I'll wait.
I wouldn't want them touching my bike so I wouldn't touch their vehicle.
Spiderman
04-06-05, 08:04 PM
Havent read all 5 pages of this but for what its worth....
Every car dirver on the fone i encounter gets one or more of the following
1/ tapping of my head to tell them they are dumb
2/ fingers shaped like a gun to shoot them as i pass
3/ tap tap on the window....you really shouldnt be on the fone you know
If they are too arrogant and ignorrant to move out the way for other road users then where is the harm of folding his mirror back for him? Would he have prefered you to try and whizz thru a too small gap and smash his iror completely? I think not.
I would have not even put it back where it was :evil: if he used it to look at you then why not use it to ensure he gives you enough room to pass by?
If he dont use it....why have it out anyway :lol:
Sadly i do this far too much on my commutes...not by choice but as there is no other way to pass the large quantities of 4x4 mums on the run i encounter on the roads everyday.
Round here people have no idea what road markings are there for and they routinely drive with two wheels over the white line. Weather its on normal residential roads or the dual carriageway (a41). And only move across at the very last second before impact with another car.
Anyone who dont believ me, drop me a pm and come hang out with me at the weekend. You wont believ your eyes :shock: Even my DAS instructor was left speechless by some of the behaviour he saw when he decided to come over this way for a change on one of his lessons!
He thanked me afterwards.... "i know where to take very brave/stupid students now ;)"
Spiderman
04-06-05, 08:13 PM
I was almost taken out yesterday on my way home guy in a car on the phone. He was more concerned that i was swareing with his kids in the car. "I can use the phone while i drive, if i want" was his answer. Urgh it just makes my blood boil
Yes and i can drag you out the car, give you a sever beating and sell your children to the gyspies if I want. :lol:
But its not about what we want is it?
Its about the law and behaving responsibly. Why is it car drivers see themsleves as above the law when it comes to their behaviour behind the wheel?
Sickens me really. :evil:
Jelster
04-06-05, 10:05 PM
So I assume it would be ok for someone to move your gixer to make more room in a parking bay?
It would a pain but OK to move my mirrors, not my bike... I think you are taking that a little out of context.
No I'm not. You like most people wouldn't like strangers laying their mitts on your property. Car drivers are no different. The fact they're irritating you is not an excuse.
Jordan, as usual you HAVE taken completely out of context. Folding a mirror out of the way and then putting it back is nothing like moving somebody's bike... Sometimes I really wonder what planet you're on.
We are talking about somebody who either deliberately blocks your right of way or is breaking the law by using a mobile phone while in charge of a motor vehicle. We're not talking about some doddery old git who just "hasn't seen you".....
I suggest you never park next to me. I MAY move your mirrors and you may not like it.... :twisted:
Flamin_Squirrel
04-06-05, 11:04 PM
Well telling me I'm from another planet or that I'm taking what you're saying out of context is all well and good... but would you like to explain why?
Phone use btw, is not a reason. An excuse maybe, but that's it.
hall13uk
05-06-05, 12:56 AM
well after reading all of the pages imho, i find it best to just steer clear of people like this & just shrug your sholders & ride off. if someone won't let you pass either because they are an @rse or they cannot why not just wait untill its clearly safe then go past. I would rather wait a few mins than have some psyco after me or try to knock me off. i mean its not like you are going to die cos you got some place 10 mins later than planned, however u might die if some car driver takes a stong dislike to you.
just my penny's woth
http://server3.uploadit.org/files/pdieml-normal_MOPEDCAM.jpg
You were caught on camera :shock:
I thought you said you'd bent his mirror back :?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
hall13uk
06-06-05, 08:37 AM
http://server3.uploadit.org/files/pdieml-normal_MOPEDCAM.jpg
You were caught on camera :shock:
I thought you said you'd bent his mirror back :?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
thus proves all of the points about car driver's attitudes towards bikers
Jelster
06-06-05, 09:49 AM
Oh and thanks to whoever it was who adjused tmy mirror on Sunday when I wasn't there... Big favour actually... You see I have to get them just right to see passed my fat body, and luckily, I put it back in a better position than it was before !!
See and I didn't get angry either :lol:
.
Cloggsy
06-06-05, 10:01 AM
http://server3.uploadit.org/files/pdieml-normal_MOPEDCAM.jpg
You were caught on camera :shock:
I thought you said you'd bent his mirror back :?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
thus proves all of the points about car driver's attitudes towards bikers
IMHO this advert sucks... Not funny in the slightest... Scooter rider, biker, do car drivers see us any differently :?: Not in my opinion they don't... As you said "thus proves all of the points about car driver's attitudes towards bikers"... :toss: :evil:
hall13uk
06-06-05, 10:05 AM
http://server3.uploadit.org/files/pdieml-normal_MOPEDCAM.jpg
You were caught on camera :shock:
I thought you said you'd bent his mirror back :?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
thus proves all of the points about car driver's attitudes towards bikers
IMHO this advert sucks... Not funny in the slightest... Scooter rider, biker, do car drivers see us any differently :?: Not in my opinion they don't... As you said "thus proves all of the points about car driver's attitudes towards bikers"... :toss: :evil:
totally agreed as above that attitude stinks :toss:
IMHO this advert sucks... Not funny in the slightest... Scooter rider, biker, do car drivers see us any differently :?: Not in my opinion they don't... As you said "thus proves all of the points about car driver's attitudes towards bikers"... :toss: :evil:
Ok and lets address the reasons why shall we. In the last 2 months I've had:
A scooter pull out in front of me causing me to swerve.
A bike jump a red light and clip my cage, If'd I'd been moving I would have knocked him off.
The wife with child on board abused by a biker who sat in her blind spot and refused to pass her (personally I would have knocked him off!).
A mini moto! pull out in front of me causing me to slam on the anchors.
An enduro pass me on a blind bend inches from me, again causing me to swerve.
A BMW tourer pass me in a 30 then sit at 45 in a 60, then chasing me when I passed him!
Put simply the standard of bikers recently is pi$$ poor and we only have ourselves to blame for the contempt we're given by other road users. Contempt begets contempt!
I must admit I've abused car drivers when my life has been placed in danger put come on, moving a mirror because you couldn't wait? How exactly did you manage to retain control of your vehicle whilst adjusting this mirror? How would you like it if someone adjusted your carefully set-up mirrors? How would you feel if he knocked someone off behind after not being able to see them because you moved his mirrors?
Drag him out of his car and beat him? I say it's your stupity and sheer audicity that warrants a beating! What makes you more important than him? What qualifies you to be filtering in such a manner? Do you ride an emergency vehicle?
Lets face it you were in the wrong, you were not in full control of your vehicle and the authorities would see that as driving without due care and attention worthy of 6 points and a hefty fine.
In short, come on people stop taking the pi$$ and show some courtesy to your fellow road users. If you want to change the attitude of other road users start showing some respect for them.
Doubtless I'll get flamed for my response but hell bring it on, personally If someone damages my bike(s) or car(s) needlessly because they feel more important they's be handing their wallet over with my foot on their head!
In short, come on people stop taking the pi$$ and show some courtesy to your fellow road users. If you want to change the attitude of other road users start showing some respect for them.
no flaming from me since I was the one that suggested first on this thread about having a bit of courtesy for other road users.
Tbh, that wont change the attitude of road users - too many idiots, too much road rage out there to stop it. But what it WILL do is stop YOU getting angry and frustrated and stressed and therefore reducing the odds you crash or get prosecuted for something youve done cos youre angry, frustrated and stressed. It also leaves me feeling that Im a better person than the car driver for not reacting to it.
Knocking mirrors as Ive said before is usually done when youre too fast through and you misjudge things. Dropping your speed, having a little patience and just not feeling the need to rush anywhere also helps.
You can almost always get through if someones blocking you because for every car who blocks you you will find the bikers in cars that move over for you. All it takes is a little patience to find that.
Road rage is not nice. I KNOW this - the forum has pretty much known about this from my van accident and the post by the guy that was being threatened with a knife. Its stressful. So is someone blocking you worth your bike being knocked over and the damage that will cause or the fact that someone will punch you, knife you or worse? Or the stress levels it induces? Are you prepared to take that risk? If you get stressed riding into town, and especially London, DONT DO IT. It wont be good for your long term health either.
If you can get through but will clip the mirror doing so... why not consider moving YOUR mirror as Ive suggested before? How hard is it to stop, pull it in, go through and then move it back out? Why knock the mirrors in the first place then worry about it afterwards?
We cant make all drivers good, considerate drivers. But it becomes a lot better ime when you can get past the red mist and just accept crap driving as part of your lot as a biker and deal with it constructively. I certainly dont get so stressed these days and I feel better for it. :D
I think a lot of bad things but it makes me feel better knowing Im better than that to actually do it. :D
Jelster
06-06-05, 02:52 PM
The wife with child on board abused by a biker who sat in her blind spot and refused to pass her (personally I would have knocked him off!).
:shock: If that's your attitude then I suggest you find somewhere else to spend your time. Yes, the guy may have been a plonker, but if it was that dangerous your wife should have pulled over and let the bike through, problem solved. I have done this with van drivers in the past. I don't want them near me so I pull over and stop, let them get on their way, and carry on..
Lets face it you were in the wrong, you were not in full control of your vehicle and the authorities would see that as driving without due care and attention worthy of 6 points and a hefty fine.
Again, taken completely out of context.... If the car driver was purposely not moving because he'd rather use his mobile (texting at that). Howard had signalled that he wanted to get through but the driver ignored him. I think I would have tapped on the window and asked him to move, but would have gone through non the less.
In short, come on people stop taking the pi$$ and show some courtesy to your fellow road users. If you want to change the attitude of other road users start showing some respect for them.
Like the drivers that pull across me or change lanes without warning, pulling out to block my path, and in the case of a Van driver who almost knocked me off "Well you're only on a bike, how do you expect me to see you ?" The only respect I can give them a single finger.. To me my life's more than there's, so please excuse me for not being "awfully nice" to them.
You obviously don't ride a bike in London, if you did your attitude would be different.
Doubtless I'll get flamed for my response but hell bring it on, personally If someone damages my bike(s) or car(s) needlessly because they feel more important they's be handing their wallet over with my foot on their head!
Let's just hope it's not me or somebody of similar mind because the result may not be nice :cry:
.
:shock: If that's your attitude then I suggest you find somewhere else to spend your time. Yes, the guy may have been a plonker, but if it was that dangerous your wife should have pulled over and let the bike through, problem solved. I have done this with van drivers in the past. I don't want them near me so I pull over and stop, let them get on their way, and carry on..
So you suggest a woman on her own with a child in the car pull to the side of a single carriageway to let them past despite there being plenty of room and them having no intention of passing!! What if his intentions were to cause harm or distress?
Would you allow your wife to endanger her safety in such a way?
You obviously don't ride a bike in London, if you did your attitude would be different.
Nope I don't, I use the public transport infrastructure you guys have in place. I have seen the carnage caused and driven round london, that was bad enough for me :(
Let's just hope it's not me or somebody of similar mind because the result may not be nice :cry:
Thats the world we live in I'm afraid, we all have our priorities and mine is the safety of myself and my family. My possesions come a distant second but I would still be prepared to protect them from malicious damage!
Oh and despite you asking me to leave this forum for having a different opinion to yours I'm staying. If we were all of the same opinion it would be a sad sad world.
Tbh, that wont change the attitude of road users - too many idiots, too much road rage out there to stop it. But what it WILL do is stop YOU getting angry and frustrated and stressed and therefore reducing the odds you crash or get prosecuted for something youve done cos youre angry, frustrated and stressed. It also leaves me feeling that Im a better person than the car driver for not reacting to it.
I'm with you on that one, their attitude makes a difference, a van driver knocked me off my bike when he pulled out in front of me but was more concerned with my health than shouting the odds. Some people are considerate but the majority aren't. It's hard to resist the urge to act on the red mist but I do feel better everytime I don't.
I've acted on it before and it didn't make me feel big or hard, seeing a grown man cry while I'm trying to smash his window just didn't leave me feeling a better person. If I didn't have the wife on at the time I might have flipped him the bird and driven off but hey I'm very protective over any of my family :(
You know the old saying, it takes more courage to walk away, just wish I could always stand by that philosophy :)
Spiderman
06-06-05, 09:11 PM
The wife with child on board abused by a biker who sat in her blind spot and refused to pass her (personally I would have knocked him off!).
Bit extereme isnt it????, i'd wave him by or ignore him or give him the finger....but to actualy knock a rider off. Only if he had a gun in his hand would i consider such a drastic reaction. I'm hoping you were just a bit angry when you wrote this.
What makes you more important than him?
Equally what makes a cager sending a txt with plenty of rome to move out the way and showing little redard for other road users the more imprtant one here?
IMO he's in the wrong here. For simply not having the courtesy to be aware of the continual flow of motorbikes past his car in the flow of traffic. Bear in mind we are talking about congested city centre where the average driver will watch anything up to 60 or 70 bikes pass him during a 1- 1.5hr commute into town.
I'm not exagerating here either. Before i got back on a bike last year, while doing my lessons etc i had to commute in that awaful cage and it was a virtual bike showroom that would float thru the traffic every morning. I counted how many on many days as that was how many people i was jealous of before the day had even started.:(
Gave me a bit more drive to pass first time tho and even helped me to choose what lid i was gonna get. I didnt really have to go shopping...just pay extra attention to the ones i liked the look of. :D
What qualifies you to be filtering in such a manner? Do you ride an emergency vehicle?
This is normal filtering and encountering a car so close to the white line...or even over it that they are blocking the natural channel that white lines create between cars.
Lets face it you were in the wrong, you were not in full control of your vehicle and the authorities would see that as driving without due care and attention worthy of 6 points and a hefty fine.
Sorry who's in the wrong here? Not the guy who has his car in D and foot on the brake as he cralws....looking downn into his lap to send a txt....and with a car positioned contrary to all the traffic about him that is leaving sufficent gaps by normal lane use.....and who wont, even for the sake of not getting his precious car scratched by the evil bike, move into space he has available to him?
or the bike that is stationary and a rider with his bike in neutral using any free hand to simply fold back a mirror. As dextrous a move as adjusting your own mirrors when stationary really :roll:
In short, come on people stop taking the pi$$ and show some courtesy to your fellow road users. If you want to change the attitude of other road users start showing some respect for them.
like the courtesy this guy showed by moving out the way of someone who is entitled to pas him by. Or by showing courtesy for the ones who move over even tho there is room....just cos they want us to know they are decent. They all get a nod from me.
I think the main point you make here is there is just not enough courtesy on the roads today. Someone does something that annoys someone else but instead of correcting their wrong they get aggresive and look to win a battle of wills. Thats just how i see it too. But i'll always blame the one who did the wrong thing first and not the guy who had to take fair action to resolve it.
Hope you dont take this as flaming, but i dont think someone who doesnt commute in a major city is really in a position to make such an argument as yours. Maybe where you regularly ride isnt as congested and this isnt really an issue you are familiar with so it seem like extereme behaviour to you.
To those of us who face this....u-turning taxis..... mums in 4x4 dropping kids off and thinking its ok to leave the back door open into the road whlie they walk jonny in..... that have pedestrians with headphones and hoodies on walk out into stationary traffic not even considering a bike comming thru (ask Mr Toad about that one) have enough to deal with without an inconsiderate git not moving out the way when he can and should
Well if someone wants to pull out in my path from a side road and cause me to either crash or take extreme avoiding action, and then to pass them to find that they are on the phone and not only made the manoeuvre whilst not paying attention, but doing it one handed at the same time, then I think taking their wing mirror off as I pass by, they got away lightly. :roll: :roll:
Vtwinlover
06-06-05, 09:45 PM
My Blood was begining to boil then i remembered the imortal words of George Orwell:
I count find a tee shirt with 4 wheels bad 2 wheel good, but i'm sure you get the drift :)
http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/store/elf.jpg
http://www.mootrealm.com/images/orwell/white/large/orwellobvious.gif
Did i mention that the majority of car drivers are Ass****s :?:
http://www.mootrealm.com/images/orwell/white/large/orwellobvious.gif
Again this refers to road users rather than animals :wink:
http://www.mootrealm.com/images/orwell/white/large/orwellanimals.gif
Some people are considerate but the majority aren't. It's hard to resist the urge to act on the red mist but I do feel better everytime I don't.
I disagree with that. I think the majority are courteous and move over - certainly today it has been. I think its a hardcore minority, ok it may be a big minority of say 30% of drivers, but I still think its a minority that drive like ****s. Its just we always remember those ones but we dont remember how many cars we passed that didnt do that...
I've acted on it before and it didn't make me feel big or hard, seeing a grown man cry while I'm trying to smash his window just didn't leave me feeling a better person. If I didn't have the wife on at the time I might have flipped him the bird and driven off but hey I'm very protective over any of my family :(
just out of interest at the time, while you were protecting your wife from the driver, who was protecting her from watching you do this?
If that was me Id have been more upset by the fact your anger made you blind to the fact that youre more vulnerable on the bike and if he'd snapped what was to say he didnt knock you both off?
Did you even consider that when you were doing it? That your actions could of endangered you and her more than if you'd have just shook your head, imagined squirting brake fluid down the car, smiled, relaxed and moved on. Bet the rest of the day was spent working off that stress. :?
Wouldve said the other way round was better. Wife on back, flip the bird and go. On your own then have a go if you cant resist the mist. :?
You know the old saying, it takes more courage to walk away, just wish I could always stand by that philosophy :)
Its damn fecking hard. Riding in London has acquainted me to the fact its a constant factor. So I either die younger by having a heart attack from the stress or I dont let it get to me anymore. I imagine squirting brake fluid down the side of the car. Puts a smile on my face because I could do it but Im better than that. These things help.
Nope I don't, I use the public transport infrastructure you guys have in place. I have seen the carnage caused and driven round london, that was bad enough for me
are you American btw? The clue being to automatically assume that someone not passing was to possibly cause your Mrs harm or distress. Oh and the "you guys".
Did it never occur to you or to her that they may not want to pass, may be a learner, may be new to riding in the city or a whole myriad of reasons that are considerably more likely than that? :shock: :? :evil:
and carnage? wtf are you on about? Its a BIG city. Statistically there are going to be more accidents. Fact of life. Deal with it. Thats not carnage.
Now train crashes otoh...
Personally I think its made me a better rider riding in London. Ive found Ive been way better at hazard perception and anticipation than my mates who live in the North.
And you cant seem to see that DRIVING in London is completely different to RIDING in London with their own set of stresses and dangers. :?
Remember mate.... Some days your the pigeon, other days your the statue. :D
just out of interest at the time, while you were protecting your wife from the driver, who was protecting her from watching you do this?
If that was me Id have been more upset by the fact your anger made you blind to the fact that youre more vulnerable on the bike and if he'd snapped what was to say he didnt knock you both off?
Oh she was, as I said I snapped and am not proud of it. It's hard to walk away everytime and I'm ashamed by the times I haven't.
Did you even consider that when you were doing it? That your actions could of endangered you and her more than if you'd have just shook your head, imagined squirting brake fluid down the car, smiled, relaxed and moved on. Bet the rest of the day was spent working off that stress. :?
Wouldve said the other way round was better. Wife on back, flip the bird and go. On your own then have a go if you cant resist the mist. :?
It's not always that easy though is it, I suppose it depends on the level of the incident. It simply enrages me the attitude of some people these days.
are you American btw? The clue being to automatically assume that someone not passing was to possibly cause your Mrs harm or distress. Oh and the "you guys".
Nah I'm not American :shock: I took her description of his behaviour to indicate his intentions. We don't live in the city and have plenty of open roads, they travelled 2 sections of dual carriageway and he still refused to pass, prefering instead to invite her to pull over flipping her the bird and beeping etc.
Horses for courses, I guess you guys would have just pulled over, I mean you're all in sympathy of a guy forcing his way past a vehicle by whatever means necassary when a gap just wasn't there so I'm fighting a losing battle.
Remember mate.... Some days your the pigeon, other days your the statue. :D
I guess today I'm the statue then eh :?
howardr
07-06-05, 09:27 AM
Yikes! Seems I've stirred up quite a hornet's nest eh?
Just for the record:
I was in full control of my bike - stationary when I first moved the mirror, literally pushed my bike (in neutral) past his mirror and then carefully and thoughtfully moved it back.
There was never any intention on my part to cause any damage - and none was caused.
This is not something I have ever done before or will ever do again (I hope).
I am not some impatient, spotty, inexperienced 'yoof'. I have been riding bikes for many years, use it every day, covering c. 12k miles a year and commute through London every day (rain or shine - even snow!).
As I explained in my initial post - I DO NOT FEEL JUSTIFIED in what I did. I feel bad about it even now - days later. As I said, I am a "do as you would be done by" chap and I most certainly would not want anyone touching my car or bike for ANY reason.
But that's not the point.
The point is this:
He was poorly positioned in a very congested part of a major London thoroughfare - there was no need for him to leave room for anyone on his inside (as has been suggested) at this part of this particular road. His poor positioning was purely his own doing. For all I know he was probably texting while the traffic was moving and had simply not paid proper attention to where he was going.
He knew I was there and, despite having room to pull forward slightly and let me through, simply chose to ignore me. A disrespectful act (IMHO) in itself.
He was texting someone on his mobile and paying little or no attention to what was going on around him - totally illegal and dangerous.
Given these circumstanmces, I'm afraid I just 'saw red'. When you've dodged as many idiots as I have had to - just trying to get to work in one piece - who are not paying attention or drive too aggressively in inappropriate conditions, you DO tend to perhaps have a different perspective.
minky - all opinions are welcome here. I'm amazed you can put up with public transport every day, despite everything I'd take my chances on the bike every time. Do consider this though ... I have seen car drivers drinking coffee, shaving, putting on makeup, reading maps on the steering wheel IN THE FAST LANE of the M4 - you name it!
And bizarrely, just days before this incident and in virtually the same spot (whilst waiting patiently in the traffic because another numpty was blocking my path) I witnessed a black cab driver, in his stationery vehicle, LITERALLY NODDING OFF AT THE WHEEL - he even had a fare in the back!
So, whilst I do not condone my actions, please understand the circumstances in which they occured.
Ride safe (and calm).
Biker Biggles
07-06-05, 09:46 AM
Well after all that I bet you feel thoroughly chastised.If you are into that sort of thing :wink:
Anyway time to move on and not take it all too seriously methinks?
Yikes! Seems I've stirred up quite a hornet's nest eh?
not quite , jabba is still calm, he is always calm :)
Jelster
08-06-05, 05:37 PM
Oh and despite you asking me to leave this forum for having a different opinion to yours I'm staying. If we were all of the same opinion it would be a sad sad world.
I wouldn't ask (or tell) anyone to leave this forum, that's not my job.... I was implying that as you were suggesting that you would blatantly knock a motorcyclist of his machine perhaps motorcycling is not for you... You don't seem to have a high regard for it.
.
Spiderman
08-06-05, 06:17 PM
And bizarrely, just days before this incident and in virtually the same spot (whilst waiting patiently in the traffic because another numpty was blocking my path) I witnessed a black cab driver, in his stationery vehicle, LITERALLY NODDING OFF AT THE WHEEL - he even had a fare in the back!
I witnessed the same thing on Regent st on the way in to soho one night.
The couple in the back could not see he had a nemspaper on the steering wheel and that while he was looking at that he was nodding off.
I really felt like tapping on the window and asking them if they feel they should pay for the privelage of being driven by someone in that state. :hackedoff:
He may not get involved in a high speed accident on regent stret but he may well squash someone who is crossing between the stationary traffic.
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