View Full Version : GS500s are so like inline 4s
TrojanHorse11
05-06-05, 04:47 PM
I've had my GS for 18 months and I was so smitten with the idea that as a twin it is torquey, that I've only just started to notice that it's like an inline-4 when it comes to it's power delivery. You have to rev it to at least 5000rpm - 7000rpm to get the best from it and preferably 9000rpm (which is where its peak power and torque are (give or take)). I always thought it was torquey low down, but it isn't is it?
I know it's torquier than something like a Honda CBF600 at lower revs because I've rode one and discussed it with a mechanic who worked at a Honda + Suzuki dealer. (2 x 250cc cylinders versus 4 x 150cc cylinders)
I noticed this afternoon that it only really gets going at about 7000rpm+. (I've obviously been spoiled by the SV I tested a week ago)
So to conclude in a rather depressing way, its like an inline-4 WITHOUT the power! (hardly surprising when you consider it's only got half the number of cylinders of an IL4)
:( :(
suzsv650
05-06-05, 05:14 PM
ha ! you got a GS 500 i hate those dam things i had a new one in yellow it wos so crap! through cheddar it would just wooble all over the place! absolutly shocking!
the only good thing about them is learners can get em n ride slowly but then im sure a GS can put n e one off of bikes its so pooo!
ohh god i could go on for ages! i traded mine in for my SV soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better!
sorry if n e one has some wird reason for likeing a GS500
one good thing ! it pulls whillis ok! thats it realy...
sorry about my spelling and grammer as useual
rob
Anonymous
05-06-05, 05:35 PM
I hated the GS500 I used on training. It was heavy, bulky and unstable in bends - for those sort of commuter bikes, the ER5/CB500 is a much better bet!
(oh it had horrid rearsets added as well which meant my legs were bent right up - putting all the weight on my wrists) :(
TrojanHorse11
05-06-05, 05:54 PM
Yep, as soon as I've got the money, it's replaced with a shiny new SV or maybe, just maybe, a Z750S. (probably the SV though)
That GS500 engine has been around since the 70's. Basically a big bore GS425/450 motor.
Anonymous
05-06-05, 07:12 PM
Get a Z1000 :D
having ridden both a GS and a CBF600, the GS is still outclassed by the CBF imho.
The only thing I didnt like about the CBF was it needed the choke on to start. Otherwise, its handling and power delivery were without question way better than the GS.
But in order of choice... SV over both of those, though right now I think the CBF wouldve been kinder to my posterior today than the SV has been. Then the CBF and if I really had no choice the GS... :D
TrojanHorse11
05-06-05, 08:32 PM
having ridden both a GS and a CBF600, the GS is still outclassed by the CBF imho.
The only thing I didnt like about the CBF was it needed the choke on to start. Otherwise, its handling and power delivery were without question way better than the GS.
But in order of choice... SV over both of those, though right now I think the CBF wouldve been kinder to my posterior today than the SV has been. Then the CBF and if I really had no choice the GS... :D
I will say I really liked the CBF600. It had a great riding position. The seat was probably one of the comfiest I've rode on and the handling is indeed good because of a good frame (what does handle worse than a GS?!). Yep, everything about the CBF is nice. I do like it - the only thing that let it down for me was the engine - it felt weak and not torquey enough for me.
Speaking of torque, anyone rode a Firestorm? WOW! :twisted:
It probably feels more like a an IL4 because of the engine stroke/bore.
If it has a muchly (i know its not a word) oversquare engine, then it will rev really high.
So, the shorter the stroke of the engine, the higher it will rev.
This is why IL4's rev more, it has more smaller cylinders with short strokes, so they rev higher.
Even though you associate twins with bieng the more torquey motor, you can bet your **** that something like a 4 cylinder suzuki GSX1400 wont rev as high as your GS, probably even lower than the SV.
It all depends on tuning aswell, the more the engine is tuned, the higher it can rev, so the more power it will produce, thats why its a surprise to me that the GS revs as high as it does, its not exactly race orientated is it?
I had a GS500. And, Northwind thought his Virago rusted bad.
I spend £400 trying to get the engine sorted at a dealer. The dealer took the money and was outdone by the bikes problems. Brakes never worked. Consistanly never started. Hit 22,000 and was dead - engine fluttering 'n' all.
I did however do 100 miles with _no_ engine oil (fell out en route) and I took the oil cap off to find billows of smoke.
Good mpg and performance though. I think you are reverting to the engine braking saying its like an II4. Defo less severe than the SV and much nicer around town.
Defo less severe than the SV and much nicer around town.
On your planet maybe. Not on mine. The SV is a fantastic commuter in London and happily eats up the motorway miles to get there. Ask any of the Soho massive who regularly commute on their SVs... :D I know which one Id rather do it on... :P :D
And TH11, how you think the GS felt torquier than the CBF is beyond me. I hated the GS.... the CBF would go when needed to and I felt it to be a damn site better on its power delivery than the GS. Maybe I just ride the bikes differently :?
Have you the unfaired SV? the SVS is chuggy as a chuggy thing around town. GS was far nicer.
Have you the unfaired SV? the SVS is chuggy as a chuggy thing around town. GS was far nicer.
No. I have an SVS... curvy. Excellent commuter. Mine doesnt chugg... smooth as anything in traffic... or maybe thats just my riding having got used to London riding a bit... :D
Longshotmojo
06-06-05, 09:32 AM
I had a GS for over a year and rode everywhere on it. Didnt think it was too bad for what it was - a cheap budget bike. The only problem I ever had with it was it wasn't too keen on working in the rain, but that was sorted with some insulating tape and a tub of vaseline :wink:
Jelster
06-06-05, 09:43 AM
I found that the SV, once geared down, was fine around town, so was the Falco (again geared down). The GSXR is fine too. I think you get used to a bikes characteristics and compensate accordingly.
I must give a naked SV a proper test in town as it looks like the ideal commuter.
Oh, and if I ever had an IL4 with the performance of a GS500 I think I'd tie it up and shoot it :lol:
.
Yep, everything about the CBF is nice. I do like it - the only thing that let it down for me was the engine - it felt weak and not torquey enough for me.
Try a Hornet instead - they have the "full fat" (85bhp at the rear wheel and 46ft.lbs of torque) engine rather than the detuned lump in the CBF. Sure peak power and torque are make higher in the rev-range, butn that's part of the fun :D
Also, the Hornet weighs about 20kgs less that a CBF and that's basically the CBF600's problem - detuned motor (less power and torque) and more weight to move.
Cloggsy
06-06-05, 10:02 AM
Also, the Hornet weighs about 20kgs less that a CBF
Depends who's riding it Jabbs :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
TrojanHorse11
06-06-05, 11:16 AM
JP, The GS's stroke is 56mm, which is actually the shortest stroke of all the 500cc twins (GS / CB / ER etc).
AndrewCharnley, Your oil fell out en-route! How come you didn't come off the bike? The sump plug is directly in line with the rear tyre. Even if it came out somewhere else, I would of imagined it would have got on the tyre - not good on any bike :shock:
Lyn, Re your discussion with Andrew. I think I'd have to agree with you about the SV around town, simply because it's got more oomph and you don't have to work it as hard to make it go (I'm starting to notice that I'm having to work th GS now :? ). I know I've only ridden an SV for an hour, but wow it was good! The GS has a very smooth engine though (some reckon it's vibratory - but I noticed it's only vibratory if you put aftermarket lighter bar-ends on. The original Suzuki bar ends are heavier and stop the bars from vibrating :) - I made that mistake just after buying it)
Longshotmojo, I agree that the GS is not bad for what it is especially when you consider how cheap they are £3995 otr for me :D . However, you get used to them fairly quickly and then it's time to move on. :wink:
I think you get used to a bikes characteristics and compensate accordingly. Absolutely. I think one bike can be so different to another and we all ride accordingly. (unlike cars that all drive in a similar vein) PS: Jelster do you ride a Gixer?
Jabba, I knew you reply to this thread as I knew you rode the IL4 that is the Hornet! I've actually test-rode the 600 and the 900 Hornet. I loved both of them. The 600 accelerated like stink which was scary. I loved the riding position, handling and size. Imagine what I thought of th 900's performance. It was actually impossible to pull the throttle back and keep it there for more than a couple of seconds because in that time you were already hurtling past the national speed limit. :shock: :twisted: The acceleration was SO scary but a great bike and again, like the 600, great riding position, handling and I love the "smallish" size of them, which doesn't intimidate.
The 600 accelerated like stink which was scary.
You get used to it, and it's only when you rev it about 6-7k rpm. Below that it's actually a bit of a pussycat.
I loved the riding position, handling and size. Imagine what I thought of th 900's performance. It was actually impossible to pull the throttle back and keep it there for more than a couple of seconds because in that time you were already hurtling past the national speed limit.
My CBT instructor had one, and he told us of how he accidentally lifted the front-wheel in third-gear when powering out of a bend :shock:
The motoring press say that Honda shouldn't have detuned the Fireblade's engine - they must be mad.
........but a great bike and again, like the 600, great riding position, handling and I love the "smallish" size of them, which doesn't intimidate.
That's the main thing - buy a bike that you're comfortable with and comfortable on. I did 330 miles on mine yesterday - my most in a day by about 100 miles - and I'm fine today, no aches or anything.
Jelster
06-06-05, 11:38 AM
PS: Jelster do you ride a Gixer?
Who, moi ?? A Gixxer ?? Like this one ???
http://www.urbanbiker.co.uk/galleries/images/silverstone/steve7.jpg
TrojanHorse11
06-06-05, 11:47 AM
Jelster, so that is actually you on your avatar image. I'm impressed! 8) You're one of the bikers that if I see on the roads I'm like: "look, a gixer. niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice! a "proper" bike!" :lol:
Jabba, 300 miles in a day! Says a lot about the Hornet's riding position and seat. Any problems with the head-wind? Fly-screen? I did about 60 miles and that's a lot for me. (mind you I do seem to be doing more and more lately. I used to do about :laughat: 20 max :? )
Jelster
06-06-05, 12:05 PM
Jelster, so that is actually you on your avatar image. I'm impressed! 8) You're one of the bikers that if I see on the roads I'm like: "look, a gixer. niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice! a "proper" bike!" :lol:
:oops:
Any problems with the head-wind?
That's called a burp where I come from :lol:
.
No way the SV is better around town, the GS didn't have the engine braking and lumpy chug acceleration less than 4k. GS500 was plenty fast enough for around town. I think the SV (non S) with the gs500 equivilent sprocket would sort things.
Re: oil in GS, the oil plug worked its way loose and fell out. I can only presume at speed some deflection causes oil to go sideways. :)
No way the SV is better around town, the GS didn't have the engine braking and lumpy chug acceleration less than 4k. GS500 was plenty fast enough for around town. I think the SV (non S) with the gs500 equivilent sprocket would sort things.
Re: oil in GS, the oil plug worked its way loose and fell out. I can only presume at speed some deflection causes oil to go sideways. :)
in your opinion... but for someone who commutes 122 miles a day on the SV requiring riding through central London I will base my opinion on hard experience :D
no way the GS is as good as the SV ime. The engine braking helps considerably for making it smooth. You obviously love using your brakes continuously... me Id rather just use the engine braking and throttle to avoid having to use brakes unless I really need to. Makes a far smoother ride for me down the A13 in between the cars and buses.
Id suggest if you've got an SV650S you have it looked at if you think the acceleration is chuggy. Mine isnt - smooth on ime. But then I crank the throttle on gently. Starting to think this is as much a difference in riding style as it is difference in bike. :D
TrojanHorse11
06-06-05, 12:29 PM
...but for someone who commutes 122 miles a day...
What! :shock: :shock: :shock:
Maybe that's why I've been unemployed for 11 months :evil: :( :cry:
I've been looking for jobs within a 10 mile radius of where I live. :-k Perhaps I should look further afield.
I barely ever touch the brakes (not the back anyway), however I do use high gears for low speeds which is why its chuggy. The SV isn't happy sitting at 6k's around town me thinks :)
...but for someone who commutes 122 miles a day...
What! :shock: :shock: :shock:
Maybe that's why I've been unemployed for 11 months :evil: :( :cry:
I've been looking for jobs within a 10 mile radius of where I live. :-k Perhaps I should look further afield.
Not something I chose to do... just a factor of where my job was and where I could afford to live and where friends/family are.
But as Ive always been a high mileage girl I dont find it a problem other than in snow :( Get a trailie for next winter I think... :D Or use the CBR... dont mind if that slides :wink: :D
Oh and Mr Charnley, Id point you to an issue of Ride or Bike, cant remember which, from last year where they compared a number of 600s. While a few disliked the SV [size/riding position reasons really] it scored the highest in their commuter/town riding test... will try finding that, but it basically says Im not the only one who finds it an easy commuter... :D
and if I recall correctly, the bandit600 was the lowest rated in their test :)
TrojanHorse11
06-06-05, 05:20 PM
...I do use high gears for low speeds...
That's me - I tend to try and use the highest gears at the lowest speeds :-s and I don't really like revving. So now ya'll know why I'm a torquey kind of guy :lol:
I should probably be on a H****y D******n :riding:
This type of riding isnt suitable for town riding; give me an II4 for that any day. It's why so many people prefer scooters.
I don't care what Bike or Ride say; most of which is testosterone fuelled rubbish. Fact is the SV is a lumpy bike at low rpm's and its torque makes it snatch rather than progressively accelerate like an II4 or a smaller engine.
So just wondering then, around town what rpm's are you typically running at?
These are just my thoughts. I still think the SV is a great commuter but its not quite as ideal as many other bikes out there.
Jabba, 300 miles in a day! Says a lot about the Hornet's riding position and seat.
I think it says more about my seat :oops:
Any problems with the head-wind? Fly-screen?
Mine's a standard bike - no flyscreen. One just gets used to it I suppose.
Sustained high speeds (>100mph) are not really viable but in short bursts it's OK and I can hang on :lol: . The bike's OK for me at a motorway cruising speed of about 80-85mph on the clocks. The upside of this is that my licence is still clean.
Misquote alert:
But as Ive always been a high maintenance girl...........
That'll be another dig in the ribs for me, then :roll:
:lol:
The SVS is fine around town. No chugging problems as long as you don't go below 2k, and that is with a race can as well (which is pretty much essential in london). Generally I keep it in between 2 and 6k around town (1st 2nd and sometimes even 3rd gear if I get lucky).
Compared to the other 'bigish' bike I took my test on (an ER-5), I much prefer the SV, just pootling around at low rpms in traffic is much much easier.
MT
Try a Hornet instead - they have the "full fat" (85bhp at the rear wheel and 46ft.lbs of torque) engine
Jabba you've lost 10bhp!! 95bhp, pleeeezzz!!!
TrojanHorse11
06-06-05, 07:47 PM
So just wondering then, around town what rpm's are you typically running at?
Mine's usually kept between 3000 - 4000rpm. If I can get less, I will, but the GS won't go too low (<2500).
5000 - 7000+ for bursts. Don't think I've ever gone about 9200.
It is a smooth engine round town though. I can see why they reckon it's a "commuter". It's not bad for what it is. On the right journey it does feel good. Although I see more ER-5s and CB500s than GSs on the roads.
Going into another thread here, but I think the type of reoads you commute on determine what is the best bike for the job. If your commute is on longer, faster smooth roads then a GS / SV / Hornet / Fazer / even R6 etc. If its smaller 30 - 40mph roads that aren't too clogged, then a 125 is usually enough. If it's gridlocked or really heavy traffic and/or narrow roads and difficult to get passed the queues, then I think a moped or scooter is actually better than a proper bike.
I've also got a Honda ANF125 Innova (the replacement to the venerable Cub 90 :oops: ) and there are definitely times when it is better than what the GS would have been in the same situation (usually in clogged areas of Walsall / Cannock / etc) because these sort of bikes are so light, manouverable, no clutch etc
Sid Squid
06-06-05, 07:52 PM
GS500s are so like inline 4s
No it isn't, not a bit, oh no.
TrojanHorse11
06-06-05, 08:34 PM
GS500s are so like inline 4s
No it isn't, not a bit, oh no.
Please explain
(PS: I know they're not really like IL4s. I'm just spaeking in figurative terms because my GS only seems to get it's power and acceleration at higher revs like an IL4)
The SVS is fine around town. No chugging problems as long as you don't go below 2k, and that is with a race can as well (which is pretty much essential in london). Generally I keep it in between 2 and 6k around town (1st 2nd and sometimes even 3rd gear if I get lucky).
Compared to the other 'bigish' bike I took my test on (an ER-5), I much prefer the SV, just pootling around at low rpms in traffic is much much easier.
MT
ditto... I love it cos I can practically stay in second the whole way down the A13.... doesnt complain one bit... again no problems even when the revs are on 1.5ks...
so does everyones pull away on idle or is it just my set up? cos if I do I only need to get it to around 1.5ks for the slow speed control... and very smooth it was today too... scooter in front was all over the place... the SV just did it without argument. :D
and Jabba... misquote away... I can take it :P :twisted: :lol: :lol:
Try a Hornet instead - they have the "full fat" (85bhp at the rear wheel and 46ft.lbs of torque) engine
Jabba you've lost 10bhp!! 95bhp, pleeeezzz!!!
I said "at the rear wheel".
The 95bhp you mention (Honda quote 96bhp, BTW :P ) is at the crank :roll:
:lol:
and Jabba...... I can take it :P :twisted: :lol: :lol:
A proud boast for many a girl :lol:
Yes, Admin2 - I know it's a U-cert Forum. Promise I won't go down that low again :wink:
Try a Hornet instead - they have the "full fat" (85bhp at the rear wheel and 46ft.lbs of torque) engine
Jabba you've lost 10bhp!! 95bhp, pleeeezzz!!!
I said "at the rear wheel".
The 95bhp you mention (Honda quote 96bhp, BTW :P ) is at the crank :roll:
:lol:
I stand corrected :notworthy:
and Jabba...... I can take it :P :twisted: :lol: :lol:
A proud boast for many a girl :lol:
Yes, Admin2 - I know it's a U-cert Forum. Promise I won't go down that low again :wink:
shame :P :lol: :lol: :lol:
lowering the tone or derailing a thread again... so unlike me :P :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://www.fazer-mania.co.uk/gallery/index.php?cat=10072
my last 3 bikes have been a fazer 600, an sv650sk2, and an er-5 c1.
can't be bothered to change at the moment, but i like the sv650 with the black frame and the narrower rad, and i also like the rumours about the cbf900 for next year.
mallory park in 2 weeks on the er-5 :)
TrojanHorse11
08-06-05, 05:25 PM
...rumours about the cbf900 for next year.
CBF900 eh? That sounds interesting :thumbsup:
oooohhhh I liked the CBF600.... hmmm may have to have a look at the 900 :D
TrojanHorse11
08-06-05, 05:41 PM
Yep, sounds good doesn't it? I test rode the CB900F Hornet and that was totally awesome (probably in the top 3 bikes I ever rode), so I reckon a CBF900 would be very nice, especially if they do a CBF900S!
Vtwinlover
08-06-05, 05:54 PM
Yep, sounds good doesn't it? I test rode the CB900F and that was totally awesome (probably in the top 3 bikes I ever rode)
Are you sure you're referring to a CB900F they dont look like an awsome ride to me :)
http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/honda%20cb900f.jpg
TrojanHorse11
08-06-05, 07:37 PM
:shock: Honda must have made two CB900F's. The 900 Hornet is also called the CB900F - and that is defo a good ride!
PS: The riding position looks good on your pic and I bet it goes better than my GS :lol:
naked please !
the piccy they had in mcn a couple of months ago looked really good, but they are famous for their jackanory exploits, so perhaps it should be taken with a pinch of salt.
key points were the detuned old blade engine (919?), and twin low-level pipes (much to the disgust of buttock-toasting hornet owners!).
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