Japanese Vtwin Sportsbike anyone?

[Vtwinlover]

Anyone reckon the big 4 ought to build a new Vtwin Sportsbike :?:

Suzuki TLR = Heavy
Honda VTRSP2 = Expensive / Small
Kawasaki ????? = Non-existent
Yamaha ????? = Non-existent

[kwak zzr]

TL1000S,TL1000S,TL1000S,TL1000S,TL1000S :twisted: in RED

[BillyC]

I think you left out the Suzuki SV1000Z, which @ 125bhp is 6bhp more powerful than the TLR (119bhp) and 10Kg lighter!

The TLR was conceived back in 1997... hardly comparable to today's sports bikes.

[Cloggsy]

I say Suzuki... They've got a good track record in this so far, so why not :wink:

[curium]

Honda - They generally build the best bikes of the highest quality. Thus far they've decided to ignore the twin sector as they feel the market is demanding peak power. This has allowed Suzuki to dominate with the SV's which are a cheap twin for those that can't justify a Ducati. If you take an objective view the SVs are pretty poor as they've been built to a budget, but you get what you pay for.

[Anonymous]

Honda...Thus far they've decided to ignore the twin sector as they feel the market is demanding peak power.

Really? Will that be the same Honda that made the (hardly big selling) VTR,SP1 and SP2 V-twins for people who couldn't afford Ducati 900SS/916/998? Or the Honda that made the V-twin VT750, VTX1300 and VTX 1800 for those that couldn't afford Harleys? Or the Honda that made the V-twin NT650V Deauville for people who didn't want the more sprightly SV?

Honda do make some great, quality machines...but like all manufacturers, they make a few turkeys too! Like Suzuki - but in their defence, they got the whole price/spec package bang on with the SV. It's why they've sold so many - and have so many satisfied owners.

[BURNER]

A bike is the sum of it's parts, even bikes with great engines can be let down by crappy suspension.

The TLR was a great effort but some weight reduction and better styling would have made it a fantastic bike.
Not sure about the K5 SV thou being 126BHP, the TLR was 122BHP. The most powerful TL engined bike made until the Bimota SB8R Gobert.

Seeing as it's best V-twin sports bike, I'd actually say Ducati 999R.
Voted for Suzuki anyway :)

[RandyO]

I voted other, cause I kinda like this http://www.990superduke.com/

MODERATOR WARNING: Sorry, but this link is my pet hate - browser resize, with forced window state saving. :evil:

[Saint Matt]

I say the honda, althoguh it does have a tiny petrol range. Bloomin gorgeous though, and very loud with race cans (much louder than my mate's dad's Mille with the same company's cans!)

[Skip]

I voted Suzuki but would say that either Honda is capable too - but Suzuki are capable with superbikes... look at the new GSXR1000 - proof (if it were needed) that Suzuki are producing some awesome machines at the moment... all they need is to couple that with a V-twin, if they developed the SV1000s twin a little (say 130hp+) and put it in a frame of the ability of the GSXR, that would be something to see! 8)

[kwak zzr]

TL1000S,TL1000S,TL1000S :twisted:
at 7k you get the biggest kick up the **** than any other motorcycle! surpose that why so many people were killing themselfs on it, my mates TL is the dog ******** the front wheel is airborne everywhere and in any gear.the sv1000 does have more bhp but it is delivered in a sissy kind of way,in every report ive read the sv650 is rated higher than the sv1000 (saying it lack's soul) what ever that means? i rode one and it seemed great to me.
daz :twisted:

[jonboy]

I voted other, cause I kinda like this http://www.990superduke.com/

Gets my vote too.

MODERATOR WARNING: Sorry, but this link is my pet hate - browser resize, with forced window state saving. :evil:

Yeah I hate that, the JHS site does it too.


.

[Peter Henry]

You know the minor grievances that people had with the Honda Sp's could have easily been rectified. The biggest one was the tank range. But they are one fantastic bike and with a build quality as good as anything out there.
Superduke is cool and a wicked bike under the right rider. Why don't Suzuki up the ante a little? They have well over 90% of what people are looking for,just on occasion let down by quality questions?
The new SV1000 is wicked looking but even so I think they could have pushed the envelope just a little further. Or is it that Suzuki clients are always looking for the slightly cheaper alternative? :wink: 8)

[BURNER]

I reckon alfter the trouble they had with the TLS/R range Suzuki will tread carefully. The new SV thou has race rep type paint this year, maybe next year less show and more go.

One day a manufacturer will build the bike that will tick all my boxes, until then I'll stick with the bike I have.

[BURNER]

I voted other, cause I kinda like this http://www.990superduke.com/



Wait for the VENOM :D :D :D

[Moo]

I read a quote from kawasaki that they prefere to focus on the inline four developement.

[Anonymous]

Wait for the VENOM :D :D :D

Think Velocette have stopped making it....(it was a single anyway).

[Longshotmojo]

Hmm Suzuki winning with 53% of the votes. Not that we're biased :wink:

[northwind]

I'd like for Kwak to have a crack at a proper banzai sports twin... If the alliance is still in force then a tuned-up SV thou motor in a really sporty chassis could be the business.

And I have to admit there's an SP1 in my dealer's that keeps on catching my eye with a cheeky wink and a bit of exposed engine cleavage. Probably useless for the riding I do but I want it. It's parked beside an RSV and it looks about a third the size.

[Jelster]

What we really need is a Jap V-twin sports 750, to compete with the SS600's. Put a 750 SV based engine in a K4 GSXR 600/750 frame & running gear and they'd be going like hot cakes... 90 BHP with bags of torque and GSXR handling, it would be ace...

But what do we know, we're only the potential customer :roll:

.

[northwind]

I'm more interested in what Aprilia are going to do with their new wee-twin to be honest... But then I wish the Japs would do some proper updated IL4 400s as well benefitting from modern weight saving and engine efficiency. That's an IL4 I'd buy :)

[madEG]

TL from Hell? Not quite what we were speaking of, yet never the less...

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~mg5/sv/tl_chopper.jpg


(Admin2: Post edited to change image to a link as this was scanned and there could be copyright issues)

[BURNER]

Wait for the VENOM :D :D :D

Think Velocette have stopped making it....(it was a single anyway).

Shows what you know.

KTM RC-8 VENOM....

http://usera.imagecave.com/burnerboy/200409-KTM-RC8-copy.jpg

[Ceri JC]

What we really need is a Jap V-twin sports 750, to compete with the SS600's. Put a 750 SV based engine in a K4 GSXR 600/750 frame & running gear and they'd be going like hot cakes... 90 BHP with bags of torque and GSXR handling, it would be ace...

But what do we know, we're only the potential customer :roll:

.

Agree 100%. A Japanese out and out sport 750 V-Twin, to compete with the Ducati 749 would be ideal. Sort of like a 'ready out of the box' version of JHS racing's tricked up & bored out SV650.

Sadly I don't think Suzuki would do it (not different enough to the SV650 and the cost would probably be the same/more than the SV1000). Maybe Kawasaki to do it with tuned SV650 engine? I can imagine a hell of a lot of SV owners looking to move to a bigger/sportier bike would want one, as well as it tempting people away from ss600s, as you say.

[Jelster]

What we really need is a Jap V-twin sports 750, to compete with the SS600's. Put a 750 SV based engine in a K4 GSXR 600/750 frame & running gear and they'd be going like hot cakes... 90 BHP with bags of torque and GSXR handling, it would be ace...

But what do we know, we're only the potential customer :roll:

.

Agree 100%. A Japanese out and out sport 750 V-Twin, to compete with the Ducati 749 would be ideal. Sort of like a 'ready out of the box' version of JHS racing's tricked up & bored out SV650.

Sadly I don't think Suzuki would do it (not different enough to the SV650 and the cost would probably be the same/more than the SV1000). Maybe Kawasaki to do it with tuned SV650 engine? I can imagine a hell of a lot of SV owners looking to move to a bigger/sportier bike would want one, as well as it tempting people away from ss600s, as you say.


Apart from the engine deveopment, most of which has been done by the likes of JHS and a few others, the costs would not be that prohibitive as they already have the running gear in the current GSXR models. I love my Gixer, but if I could have my SS600 performance from a V-twin with the same handling I know which one I'd prefer, and it wouldn't have 4 cylinders....

The SV1000 is not an out an out sports bike, it's a big V-twin intended to try and catch the old TL owners, and those with Firestorms & Falco's, both of which are past their sell by date.

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[Ceri JC]

Apart from the engine deveopment, most of which has been done by the likes of JHS and a few others, the costs would not be that prohibitive as they already have the running gear in the current GSXR models. I love my Gixer, but if I could have my SS600 performance from a V-twin with the same handling I know which one I'd prefer, and it wouldn't have 4 cylinders....

The SV1000 is not an out an out sports bike, it's a big V-twin intended to try and catch the old TL owners, and those with Firestorms & Falco's, both of which are past their sell by date.

.

Do you know of anyone who has shoehorned a tuned SV650 engine into a sportsbike chassis? I've heard of things like a TL1000 engine in a modified SV650 frame, but presumably it'd be harder to fit a twin into an entirely differently shaped IL4 frame? Be interesting to see if anyone has done a 'prototype' one that you could get one of the big 4 to use as inspiration.

[Itching 2 go]

Apart from the engine deveopment, most of which has been done by the likes of JHS and a few others, the costs would not be that prohibitive as they already have the running gear in the current GSXR models. I love my Gixer, but if I could have my SS600 performance from a V-twin with the same handling I know which one I'd prefer, and it wouldn't have 4 cylinders....

The SV1000 is not an out an out sports bike, it's a big V-twin intended to try and catch the old TL owners, and those with Firestorms & Falco's, both of which are past their sell by date.

.

Do you know of anyone who has shoehorned a tuned SV650 engine into a sportsbike chassis? I've heard of things like a TL1000 engine in a modified SV650 frame, but presumably it'd be harder to fit a twin into an entirely differently shaped IL4 frame? Be interesting to see if anyone has done a 'prototype' one that you could get one of the big 4 to use as inspiration.the question I would like to ask is why? its far easier to fit gsxr usd forks with radial calipers to your sv frame than it is to fit an sv lump into a gsxr chasis. The mods that you can do to the sv nowdays are rdiculous! The frame is plenty stiff enough its just the suspension and brakes let it down. The swingarm doesnot really need to be braced does it? and you really dont need a 180 rear tyre even if you tune the engine! my thundercat has more bhp than an sv and that uses a 160!

[jambo]

its far easier to fit gsxr usd forks with radial calipers to your sv frame than it is to fit an sv lump into a gsxr chasis. The mods that you can do to the sv nowdays are rdiculous! The frame is plenty stiff enough its just the suspension and brakes let it down. The swingarm doesnot really need to be braced does it? and you really dont need a 180 rear tyre even if you tune the engine! my thundercat has more bhp than an sv and that uses a 160!

Agree totally.
IL4 frames are not a good starting point for a v-twin as they are quite wide (something about filling a short IL4 engine :) ) Far better to start with a frame designed for the job and pick up better peripherals to uprate the bike, I considered this when looking at the kwak, but decided it would be too expensive for what I wanted.

[Jelster]

Fair comment, as long as the radial master cylinder and shock came with it. You then have to think about suitable fairing, the GSXR range already have it.

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[Itching 2 go]

Fair comment, as long as the radial master cylinder and shock came with it.well master cylinder yes but shock no, If you are putting a front end on the bike that is worth £1500 you might as well get an ohlins rear unit!

You then have to think about suitable fairing, the GSXR range already have it. again not really, the sv fairing is enough, you do not really need bother converting a gsxr fairing to fit, but then again it would be down to the person doing the conversion. If it were me? I would get sv race fairing and make it road going!

[jambo]

I think it's important people are clear about what they want.

If you want a GSXR with an SV engine that's one thing and all comments about a GSXR fairing are relevant, though personally I'd see an engine with less power in a chasis not designed to hold it (and probably now flexing due to weird engine mounts and new weight distribution etc) a downgrade.

If we're talking about making a rapid middleweight twin, then the SV chasis and engine are not a bad starting point, you can buy full fairings and just throw away all the budget peripherals. 8)

[Vtwinlover]

But no matter how much giggery pokery you do with the engine tune or race fairing on either the 650 or 1000, the SV's chasis is always going to have the higher bars and lower pegs than a focused superbike/sportsbike. Honda didnt just put a fairing on the VTR when they made the SP1 (obviously that never would have won the WSB championship)

What they need to do is make it with more of a sports geometry, like either a duke 748/9 or 998/9. Imagine a Japanese version with more reliability, build quality and affordability it would be great.
:)

[BURNER]

A tuned SV in a GSXR type frame(beam) would be a baby TLR. Twins are better suited to trellis type frames anyway, KTM, Ducati, they can't be wrong.
I don't see Suzuki putting money into something that may compete against their own GSXR line up. You either want a twin or IL4, make a choice.

I agree that a sporty twin would be the way to go, very nice to have.
Cagiva did plan to release a 800cc Raptor, with their own designed engine, very TL SV looking it was. Their monetary woes put this on a very distant back burner..

With the Hairnet getting USD forks this year, the FZ6 with the tasty underseat pipes and then Kawa putting out a practical version of the Z750 you can almost see that within a few years all the budget bikes with have USD forks, capacity hikes and more bling styling. To compete they'll have to, more of these type of bikes are being sold than before. Sports bikesa are still miles ahead in the UK.

Look at the spec on a Z750, it's already at the 100BHP mark. 10 years ago it would have been a hot poop sportsbike. Now it's what the bike mags are telling us we should have if we've just passed our DAS!

[Jelster]

Firstly we#re all talking bollox cause it ain't gonna happen....

Secondly I was using the "SV power plant in a GSXR" idea as the concept. What I'm trying to say is that the sports bodywork, running gear and suspension all exists on the GSXR range.

The SV is not and never will be a true sports twin, with or without sports fairing....

.

[Vtwinlover]

Firstly we#re all talking bollox cause it ain't gonna happen....

Secondly I was using the "SV power plant in a GSXR" idea as the concept. What I'm trying to say is that the sports bodywork, running gear and suspension all exists on the GSXR range.

The SV is not and never will be a true sports twin, with or without sports fairing....

.

Clearly a V-twin (SV engine) sports bike in a GSXR frame would be crap, it would need to have an exclusively designed chasis and more highly tuned motor.
The whole point of the bike would be to cater for people that really dont want a buzzy inline4. I dont suppose Fireblade sales dropped that much if at all when Honda introduced the SP1.

I know that in a few years when the time comes when i could afford the insurance i personally would bypass the litre 4cylinder sports bikes in favour of a viable litre V-twin alternative.

But then as my login suggests i'm a Vtwinlover :wink:

[Jelster]

Firstly we#re all talking bollox cause it ain't gonna happen....

Secondly I was using the "SV power plant in a GSXR" idea as the concept. What I'm trying to say is that the sports bodywork, running gear and suspension all exists on the GSXR range.

The SV is not and never will be a true sports twin, with or without sports fairing....

.

Clearly a V-twin (SV engine) sports bike in a GSXR frame would be crap, it would need to have an exclusively designed chasis and more highly tuned motor.
The whole point of the bike would be to cater for people that really dont want a buzzy inline4. I dont suppose Fireblade sales dropped that much if at all when Honda introduced the SP1.

I know that in a few years when the time comes when i could afford the insurance i personally would bypass the litre 4cylinder sports bikes in favour of a viable litre V-twin alternative.

But then as my login suggests i'm a Vtwinlover :wink:

Like I said, it was a "concept". When I said "running gear" did you here me say "frame" ? I was trying to make the point that the economics are that if a manufacturer can use existing parts they will, to keep the prices down. If the front end, rear shock assy and any of the plastics can be re-used then it makes sense to do so, that all.

I'll let my input rest as it doesn't seem to make any sense to some of you....

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[Vtwinlover]

Like I said, it was a "concept". When I said "running gear" did you here me say "frame" ? I was trying to make the point that the economics are that if a manufacturer can use existing parts they will, to keep the prices down. If the front end, rear shock assy and any of the plastics can be re-used then it makes sense to do so, that all.

I'll let my input rest as it doesn't seem to make any sense to some of you....

.

Sorry if i missunderstood Jelster, its just when you said "SV powerplant in a GSXR" I stupidly thought you meant as SV powerplant in a GSXR :? As a concept :roll:

I do however understand the economics, bearing in mind the switch gear and other auxiaries are currently interchangable throughout the Suzuki range.

[irl_dar]

Has to be a TLR :lol:
i rode all other v twins before i got mine and found the TL to be best of an awkward bunch,
SP1(would do my 6ft 4 back in,in no time)
RSVR(didnt like the power delivery..60 degree twin..emm maybe next time)
Duc 996(nice but emm no thanks)
TLR(heavy-yes but you dont feel the weight(you shouldnt really comment until you have ridden one),crap handling-yes if your on the edge when most people are so far away from the edge.
In my views the tlr is a great bike(im not biased am i..lol) but its comfy..not too focused,has proper full fairing,oh yeah and that 190 rear tyre.. :idea:
ah well i love it!
Cheers
Dar

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

Yamahas v-twin stuff is limited to cruiser type stuff, but with the vmax and mt01 I reckon they could put out something more sports-oriented with an impressive torque/acceleration package... can't see them having any plans yet.

Isn't the SP2 widely regarded as one of the best, if not THE best v-twin packages out there? Including the reliablity, etc.??

[ophic]

thought the vmax was a V4?

[weegaz22]

Isn't the SP2 widely regarded as one of the best, if not THE best v-twin packages out there? Including the reliablity, etc.??

if your talking japanese then its really the only vtwin sports package, there are a few others (funnily enough mostly made by italians) that would probably be better than the honda, but then you have what the italians call "character" and what the japs would call a "problem" :lol:

DUCATI 998/999
APRILIA RSV MILLE
MONDIAL PIEGA(SP1 ENGINED)
BIMOTA SB8R(TL ENGINED AND NO LONGER PRODUCED, ALSO DAMN EXPENSIVE)

[weegaz22]

thought the vmax was a V4?

it is

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

thought the vmax was a V4?

D'oh - yes...