Clutchless shifting

[Ceri JC]

Towards the end of last summer I started doing clutchless upshifts at higher RPM in higher gears. I stopped doing it over winter (to scared on slippy roads). As the weather is now back to near-perfect, I started practicing doing them again.

Firstly I noticed I was a lot smoother doing them than last year, winter riding has obviously helped there. However, I notice that at lower revs in the lower gears it is either jerky (surges forward as well as feeling rough) or the lever refuses to budge. I didn't have the confidence to try in lower gears last year, but would like to learn now.

Changing 5->6 and 4->5 are very smooth, 3->4 is a litte bit jerky compared to the higher gears, but just about bearable. 2->3 is very jerky and 1->2 I haven't managed yet (don't want to yank the gear lever off trying :) )

Only thing I can think of is that I tend to change up a little bit earlier in the rev range for 1-2 and 2-3 than other gears, but even so not by much. Would this affect it?

Some questions:

Am I right in thinking I should be revving reasonably hard and then easing off the throttle a split second before changing up?

Also, how far should I close the throttle, it seems to be smoother when I just roll off a bit, rather than close the throttle entirely, is this right?

Are you only meant to clutchless upshift in higher gears and at very high revs (it seems the deeper into the powerband I go, the smoother the upshift)? I was under the impression it could be done in any gear. :?

Thanks in advance folks. Feel free to mock my lack of knowledge/skill on the matter :D

[hall13uk]

well my i am not really the best person on clutches,
but i close the throttle fully for sec while i change up/down i can do it in any gear just a question of learning where the revs need to be before changing it does take time 7 months before i fuly got the hang of it. & if the leaver wont move easily dont force it cos u will skid, i find when doing it right the leaver just needs a slight nudge.

[Saint Matt]

I just shut the throttle when doing it, its only shut for a short time anyway. I wouldn't do it 1->2 at high revs, because i'd hate to put it in neutral at 10k with a full open throttle! I don't think it does any harm when done right, in fact i've heard some people say it slows wear on the clutch, which is logical, but i'm not 100%

[Ceri JC]

I just shut the throttle when doing it, its only shut for a short time anyway. I wouldn't do it 1->2 at high revs, because i'd hate to put it in neutral at 10k with a full open throttle! I don't think it does any harm when done right, in fact i've heard some people say it slows wear on the clutch, which is logical, but i'm not 100%

I've heard if done right it doesn't hurt the bike and judging by how smooth it is changing into the top 2 gears, I could well believe it. I don't think my current 'lurching' changes in lower gear can be doing it much good though :)

[fizzwheel]

You dont need to be revving reasonable hard I find I can shift up without the clutch and it be nice and smooth from about 3000rpm upwards

You are correct just roll of the throttle a little bit prod the lever and bobs is your mothers brother. I havent found it necessary to shut the throttle completely. Just make sure you are positive in the movement of the gear lever.

I also find that preloading the gear lever by sticking my boot under it and putting a little pressure on it before I am ready to change will also give a smoother upshift to.

As for what gear and when, depends how I am riding. I've found that if I choose to I dont need the clutch to change from any gear up to any gear. I think its just practice at the end of the day, your right though changing between first and 2nd is jerky without the clutch but it can be done

HTH

[Saint Matt]

I also find that preloading the gear lever by sticking my boot under it and putting a little pressure on it before I am ready to change will also give a smoother upshift to.

Yeah, i tried that also, it makes it much easier to learn how much you need to shut the throttle because as soon as you're there it wil snick up a gear. I found it too much to concentrate on though, but hey, i'm simple :lol:

[fizzwheel]

I also find that preloading the gear lever by sticking my boot under it and putting a little pressure on it before I am ready to change will also give a smoother upshift to.

Yeah, i tried that also, it makes it much easier to learn how much you need to shut the throttle because as soon as you're there it wil snick up a gear. I found it too much to concentrate on though, but hey, i'm simple :lol:

It also stops you from missing a shift

[Mogs]

I've been trying to do this, but every time ends in total failure.

I concentrate on getting the revs right and my fingers close on the clutch.
I concentrate on my fingers and my foot won't move.

I think I've been riding too long and I'm hard wired.

[Jabba]

I can do it ok on upshifts only 4-5 and 5-6. Better at higher revs.

Don't do it much............. maybe I have too much mechanical sympathy :?

[Carsick]

I also find that preloading the gear lever by sticking my boot under it and putting a little pressure on it before I am ready to change will also give a smoother upshift to.
That's the easiest way.
If you've got a fair amount of throttle on, put some pressure under the gear lever and when you want to change just the merest easing off of the throttle will let the gear change.

[Stig]

I can't see the point of clutchless gear shifting unless you are in a rush.

I close the throttle exactly the same as if I were doing a clutch change.

[Viney]

I go up and down the box. But then im always going quickly :shock:

[Jelster]

You just have to be "progressive" in your changes. It's no good kick shifting if you are not actually putting some pressure on the gas, it doesn't drop in easily. However, if you are accelerating moderately fast it's a doddle, just back of a bit, as you roll the throttle back snick it into the next gear.... Changing down isn't quite so easy but it's a nice way of "dropping one and going for it" when you have the technique.

I have had problems between 1 & 2 on almost any bike I ride but I've got it sussed on the Gixer, but I always find it smoother when I'm accellerating harder.

I did find that, on my Falco, if you give a large dose of right hand in 1st and kick it to 2nd the front just went skywards and came 3ft of the deck :twisted:

.

[Ceri JC]

Thanks for the advise folks, I've practiced these for a couple of days now and I'm definately finding it a lot easier now. The key things I'm differently seem to be that I'm leaving the gear changes till I'm revving a lot higher and I'm also putting a bit of pressure on the lever before actually pulling it up.

I'm still smoother in the higher gears, but those are much smoother now. Seem to be even smoother than when I actually use the clutch. Hopefully I'll get the hang of it in the lower gears and also get it so it' second nature. Once again, ta for all the advise people.

[Anonymous]

Some questions:

Am I right in thinking I should be revving reasonably hard and then easing off the throttle a split second before changing up?

Yes, you need to be accelerating fairly hard for a clutchless change to be effective. Close the throttle just enought to take the load off the gear box and it should just slip into next gear, close throttle to much and the dogs in the gear box crash back together, dont close enough and there will still be a load on the gear box, thus causing excessive wear and tear.

Also, how far should I close the throttle, it seems to be smoother when I just roll off a bit, rather than close the throttle entirely, is this right?
Close the throttle just enought to take the load off the gear box and it should just slip into next gear, close throttle to much and the dogs in the gear box crash back together, dont close enough and there will still be a load on the gear box, thus causing excessive wear and tear.

Are you only meant to clutchless upshift in higher gears and at very high revs (it seems the deeper into the powerband I go, the smoother the upshift)? I was under the impression it could be done in any gear. :?
Your impression is right. You can clutchless change at any gear at any speed, its all a question of timing. If the timing on throttle closing, and gear selection is good, and you've closed the throttle the correct amount, the gear will go straight in. :D

I've got it pretty much to a "t" now on my CBR400 and can clutchless up and down the box and any speed. Its perfect in town when your backs aching a little bit.

Remember, theres no such thing as a stupid question....

Hope this helps...

GYKD

[NitroNorry]

I'm a new rider and the first few times I tried this I couldn't do it at all. I tried again last week and found like a few others on here that applying some upward pressure to the gear lever just before I want to change means that a small backoff of the throttle is enough to make the change easily. It does it ok in most gears at most sensible revs.

rgds

[pops2097]

I thought preloading the shifter was bad for the gear box.