View Full Version : Should this be encouraged
timwilky
23-06-05, 12:38 PM
My daughter last night out of the blue announced that she fancies the idea of having a bike.
She knows the score in that she has to do a CBT, and is limited to 125 unless she wants to do a DAS or pass her test and 2 years on 33 horses.
Should this attitude be encouraged, remembering she was the individual who hid my keys one rainy afternoon to make sure I stayed in DIYing. and then sodded off to Thailand for 3 months without telling me about the keys.
And if she does pass her DAS she will want my bike...........
Hmmm justification for a return to the dark side. keep SV for her and Blade for me.
And if she does pass her DAS she will want my bike...........
I voted "No" because this needs to be resolved to your satisfaction :lol:
See - i sit nicely on the fence - don't encourage her but don't discourage her!!
Tell her if she wants to do it she'll have to buy her own bike! :D
Don't do either - just be supportive with her choice.
Cloggsy
23-06-05, 12:59 PM
I said 'no' to encourage, but if she wants to learn give her all the help & support you can - I was told 'I couldn't get a bike' by my parents, so I went behind their back & got one anyway... Much better to be in the know, than not IMHO :wink:
richwill68
23-06-05, 01:02 PM
Definately. I got three kids and would love nothing more than to see each and all of 'em on two wheels! Imagine the sound when we all set out for a family ride....YEAH! :lol:
No. Let her choose her own path in life. If she chooes biking then encourage and advice, if she doesnt, then get her to pack her bags and leave imediately :shock: :lol: ...seriously, if she dont, then fine, leav her be.
No. Let your daughter live her life and make her choices.
If shes already said that shes interested in owning a bike, then shes already shown the interest. I wouldn't push her, but give her all the advice, sit down, maybe look at all the different bikes available to her with the CBT etc. If shes still keen, you'll know. She won't shut up about it :lol:
Encourage when needed and when shown an interest i'd say. Otherwise u'll end up more excited about your daughter coming out for a ride :lol:
Anonymous
23-06-05, 02:24 PM
Well, you just KNOW what my answer is.....get her on that bike quick. Apart from gaining unimaginable Fatherly pride when you bring her to a ride-in, it's your one and only chance to one day hide her keys to "encourage" her to tidy her room/cook supper/wash curtains/feed dog/finish dissertation etc etc before bu**ering off to Mallorca for three weeks without telling her! (Revenge can take many forms...and it's always a dish best eaten cold!!)
I know this will be controversial, but as a family man I consider myself to be irresponsible riding a bike because of the risks. After all my natural and primary responsibility is the well-being of my wife and children. I've got just enough life insurance for them to be okay should the worst happen but still think I'm being selfish in pursuing my one big passion in life but can't see how I can possibly give up.
Your daughter? Mine asked too, I said NO. She said so there's one rule for you and another for everyone else? and I said yes. She wan't happy. My view on this is very simple: as a parent my primary genetic role is to ensure that my offspring survive. Biking will only lessen this chance and on top of that the worry would be crippling. When she's fully an adult and is financially and legally responsible for her life then I will be powerless to stop her so I'll have to live with it if she decides to ride.
Until then (regardless of all the cries of hypocracy that will doubtless come from all and sundry) she can get the bus and train or take full advantage of Dad's Taxi Service which means picking her up from a club at 2am on a Saturday night is never refused - not too hard done by is she.
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Anonymous
23-06-05, 02:55 PM
Until then (regardless of all the cries of hypocracy that will doubtless come from all and sundry) she can get the bus and train or take full advantage of Dad's Taxi Service which means picking her up from a club at 2am on a Saturday night is never refused - not too hard done by is she. .
Sorry ...just a very small thing: the spelling is "h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y"....but there is an alternative: it's "j-o-n-b-o-y"!
It's her life and, as Cloggsy said, better you know what/where/when, and impart guidance and wise words, than have her do it alone and without proper support.
Until then (regardless of all the cries of hypocracy that will doubtless come from all and sundry) she can get the bus and train or take full advantage of Dad's Taxi Service which means picking her up from a club at 2am on a Saturday night is never refused - not too hard done by is she. .
Sorry ...just a very small thing: the spelling is "h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y"....but there is an alternative: it's "j-o-n-b-o-y"!
Thank you for pointing out the momentary spelling lapse, it's appreciated.
It's her life and, as Cloggsy said, better you know what/where/when, and impart guidance and wise words, than have her do it alone and without proper support.
IMO: YOU'RE WRONG!
I take it you're not a parent?
.
howardr
23-06-05, 03:29 PM
Get her a dirt-bike. Let her learn her mistakes (and feel how painful falling off can be) in relative safety, off-road.
If she sticks with it, she'll be a lot wiser and a lot more careful.
No substitute for experience on the road though - maybe let her drive a car for a year to learn about the behaviour of your 'average' car driver before letting her loose in the big, bad, mad world.
Tough call. I see Jonboy's view but would also not want to deprive my daughter of big fun.
It's her life and, as Cloggsy said, better you know what/where/when, and impart guidance and wise words, than have her do it alone and without proper support.
IMO: YOU'RE WRONG!
I take it you're not a parent?
.
I understand where you are coming from jonboy (and no i'm not a parent). My mum and dad had rules regarding such like and while i was living with them i gave them the respect due for setting down the rules even if at the time i didn't agree with them.
fizzwheel
23-06-05, 03:30 PM
Difficult isnt it
My Dad was all for it, as long as I did it in stages and didnt run before I could walk. I had a 125 on a CBT for about 9 months, then I did my DAS and then moved up to my SV. Dad was OK with this but wasnt happy with me going straight to a 600 supersport or anything like that.
My Mum was dead against it and was basically of the opinion that I wasnt doing it whilst I lived under her roof.
My dad has been a biker since he was 16 and mum is used to bikes and spills and stuf.
After I passed my CBT I went out with my dad for a couple of rides and once he was happy with my riding and after listening to his wise words he was OK about me upgrading to a bigger bike.
I'm of the opinion you shoudl respect older and wiser heads, and I wouldnt want to put my mum and dad through unecessary worry or grief. So I waited till I bought my own house.
I got out with my dad regualrly for a ride about and he is off the opinion that I ride OK but I still have lots to learn, but even he admited that he is now learning off of me especially in the wet. Mum no longer has the look of sheer terror on her face when I arrive or depart my parents house.
My Brother rides to and they are both Ok with this as well.
I'm off the opinion that done in a responsible way and with corerct training and guidance, then if I ever have kids and they want to ride I will treat them in the same way my dad did and I would support them in wanting to get a bike. I know that I would worry but you cant shield them against the dangers in life forever IMHO.
fizzwheel
23-06-05, 03:39 PM
I will just say one more thing.
I was encourage to get a car at 17, rather than a bike, I regret not doing my bike test when I was 17, however if I had done my bike test at 17 I dont think I would be around to post on this site now.
I was a complete and utter moron in my car when I first started driving. If I had had that kind of attitude to the road on a bike I dont like to think about what might have happened to me. So mabye its not such a good thing after all.
I think at the end of the day you have to decide what you think is best for your kids, and as long as you can discuss it with them and explain your reasons why I cant see there being problem whatever you decide to do.
Ceri JC
23-06-05, 03:51 PM
I don't want my girlfriend to learn to ride (thankfully she seems to have no interest). I'd worry about her too much when she's out on the bike if I wasn't with her. This may seem like a double standard, but it's more based on the way her car driving goes to pot when she's tired or emotional: Missed gears, slow observation, poor lane discipline, etc. you might get away with it in a car, but on a bike I doubt she'd survive very long.
I can well understand a parent not wanting their child to ride. Personally I believe you shouldn't encourage it, but if they decide to, you should support it. As has been said, if you get your sprog a dirt bike as a kid, they'll be safer as an adult. My mother stopped me getting a bike whilst I was living at home. First thing I did when I moved out for good? Bought a bike :D I'm probably more dangerous now than if I had already racked up ten years experience...
Anonymous
23-06-05, 04:33 PM
Sorry ...just a very small thing: the spelling is "h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y"....but there is an alternative: it's "j-o-n-b-o-y"!
Thank you for pointing out the momentary spelling lapse, it's appreciated.
It's her life and, as Cloggsy said, better you know what/where/when, and impart guidance and wise words, than have her do it alone and without proper support.
IMO: YOU'RE WRONG!
I take it you're not a parent?
My sincere apologies Jonboy...that was pretty rude and arrogant of me. :oops: And you're probably quite right to infer that I don't know anything at all about parenting. :(
But actually (as far as I can tell, anyway) I am a father - my daughter is pictured on the Pennine Massive thread, on her blue curvey. :D You can ask the others how she rode because I'm naturally biased.
It didn't occur to me that I should have stopped her from going to Australia on her own, yomping across Dartmoor, skiing or mountaineering either. I wouldn't/didn't stop my son doing these things - the fact that Helen is (very much) a girl seemed quite irrelevant. I was happy for her to learn to ride a 'bike - it was totally her choice and she did CBT before I knew - but I made sure she learnt with good people and helped her to choose a sensible 'bike. I don't think that makes me an irresponsible father.......but I might be in a minority of one!!!
[My sincere apologies Jonboy...that was pretty rude and arrogant of me. :oops: And you're probably quite right to infer that I don't know anything at all about parenting. :(
Oh I like a bit of spirited debate and clashing of sabres ;).
But actually (as far as I can tell, anyway) I am a father - my daughter is pictured on the Pennine Massive thread, on her blue curvey. :D You can ask the others how she rode because I'm naturally biased.
I'm sure she's a competent rider and glad that this fits in with your own personal paradigm. However no doubt I'm being selfish but I see things a little differently.
It didn't occur to me that I should have stopped her from going to Australia on her own, yomping across Dartmoor, skiing or mountaineering either. I wouldn't/didn't stop my son doing these things - the fact that Helen is (very much) a girl seemed quite irrelevant. I was happy for her to learn to ride a 'bike - it was totally her choice and she did CBT before I knew - but I made sure she learnt with good people and helped her to choose a sensible 'bike. I don't think that makes me an irresponsible father.......but I might be in a minority of one!!!
Oh I agree that letting the bird fly the nest and find it's own way in life is important but I just can't help doing my utmost to keep a beady on my offspring until the day comes when they're fully matured and have spread their wings and flown far away. As previously, if she wants to ride a bike then, so be it - but until then... ;)
Each to their own I suppose and as this is a forum I though I'd throw in my two penneth worth.
.
Jelster
23-06-05, 05:11 PM
Now I'm a parent but have totally the opposite view to Greg.
How can I say I'm a reasonable man and tell my son he can't have a bike if I do it myself, especially when I know he loves it ?
If he is to ride then he does it by my rules. If not I'll take the keys away. I want him to have his independance and enjoy life, you can't keep them wrapped up forever....
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I am a parent of two girls, although a lot younger. I still think that in principle you should just be supportive of her decision. Don't purposely go out of your way to discorouge it but you should make sure she's aware of the dangers. That's not trying to influence her - it's just being a parent and looking out for her.
How can I say I'm a reasonable man and tell my son he can't have a bike if I do it myself, especially when I know he loves it ?
Yes but I don't think it's about reasonableness, parenting isn't a democratic process (well not at jonboy Towers :lol: ). Certainly I sit down and discuss things and always listen to contra arguments but at the end of the day I (and Mrs jonboy) make the decision.
If he is to ride then he does it by my rules. If not I'll take the keys away.
That's a fair comment, but we both know that as teenagers once we were out of sight of home we, er, behaved slightly differently. Well I did, hooligan me.
I want him to have his independance and enjoy life, you can't keep them wrapped up forever....
I agree completely Steve, however it's not forever I'm after, just till they've flown the nest.
I've got two daughters, one is naturally good with driving/riding and showed this at an early age, the other one isn't. It's the fact that this daughter is the one who wants to ride (strangely) and is one of the factors that helped make my decision - she'd likely be a danger to herself (that's not putting her down as she's an amazing person just my honest belief and observation).
Still at least there's enough varying opinions in this thread to let anyone who's thinking of letting their offspring ride think deeply about it. Whatever their decision (and I'm not saying mine is correct, just what I honestly believe) let's hope it all works out for the best.
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Jelster
23-06-05, 05:47 PM
I think a lot of how you feel about something like this comes from how you are brought up. My father would never let me near motorbikes, he even got annoyed when I started building pushbikes brom old frames wheels gears etc as he knew what was coming next......
I just can't hold him back like that, but if he's going to do it then I want him to be fully aware of the circumstances. I have had a very detailed conversations with him and he knows that if he rides like a pratt he will die, and he doesn't like the idea of that :)
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I reckon if she really wants to do it then you should support her. My mum is totally against bikes and thinks as soon as you get on one you are going to kill yourself. She doesn't have a clue that I have a bike licence let alone a bike. I may not be a parent but I'm sure I would prefer to be in the know and be around in case she needs a hand.
Still, its going to be interesting when I do get around to letting my mum know. I think I'll just turn up on the bike. At some point.
Don't do either - just be supportive with her choice.
What O.B.O. said.
I know it's not the same, and also as I'm only a parent to this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/spazmutt/Kodo/Kodo3.jpg
... but I nearly refused to sell my old TDM125 to a friend years ago as his first bike - I simply didn't want to be responsible for being the one to give him access to two wheels & engine & keys!
I relented in the end as he was 18 (just) and would have bought some old dog of a bike otherwise - so at least I knew he was getting something reliable to start off with.
I wouldn't say my parents encouraged me to get into bikes as I never showed an interest; but my Mum effectively bought me my first bike.
They soon changed their joint tune 6 months later when I was up to my hip in plaster!
Their total rejection of all things two-wheeled and motorised did cause me to rebel and almost ever since (with occasional lapses in secrecy) I have kept from them any knowledge or confirmation of my varied bike ownership.
If I had kids I wouldn't want them to keep such things from me, I would like them to feel they could be open and honest.
To such end, and to satisfy both my fear of resposibility and desire for honesty, I think I would actively discourage any child of mine against riding bikes on the road. BUT, with the added footnote that if they are that determind to go against my wishes and protective nature... then I'll help make sure they learn properly, get kitted out, get a decent & suitable bike and above all, get their head round what it means to be a biker on modern roads.
I'm working on the (perhaps naieve) premise of mutual respect between me and my child(ren), and that if they are so determind to go against my wishes, I have to respect that desire.
To this day I wish my parents would do that for me, so how can I do any less for my own children.
But lets face it, me & kids = nah! :wink:
FairyDust
23-06-05, 11:27 PM
Im not a parent but i am a daughter and im a firm believer in letting children make informed choices.
Give her all the info, the good, the bad and the ugly.
My parents did for all of the choices i made and im glad they did.
It made me open and honest with them. In the end it also made me make the first choice FOR ME and at the end of the day thats the most important thing.
I can understand your fears but fear is not a reason to stop your children experincing life
But thats just my non-parent opnion
:D
Godikus
23-06-05, 11:42 PM
well i'm not a parent (yet) but i have to say the best thing my parents ever done was get me into bikes. they used to have a riding school and my big brother and sister were never too into it, but they couldn't keep me off there bikes. so they got me a moped when i turned 16 and made sure i was as safe as i could be.
it wasn't forced on me, but if they had said "No Chance" then i would in all likely hood be dead by now. when they said "No tattoos" i went out and got plenty (altho years down the line they still don't know) if they said "No Bikes" i would have got out and baught one, and not having them to teach me i would probably have went out with my mates and wrecked.
Jonboy have your daughters had much riding experience?
My son is 7 so i'm unlikely to face this for a few years. However I think that if i took Jonboy's approach, it might put him off biking forever. But on the other hand it might only stop him biking until he's left home - then he can learn when i'm not around to provide the benefit of my experience. If he has to learn, i'd prefer him to do so under my watchful eye.
kingnothing
24-06-05, 12:24 AM
encourage and purchase a Busa for her first bike, that way when she gets an SV she'll be able to throw it around like nothin'.
Sid Squid
24-06-05, 07:02 AM
Should this be encouraged?
Definately.
I can see where Jonboys coming from, parenting isn’t logical or fair, providing as parents we do what we feel is right at the time then no-one should ask for more.
I have two daughters; both are too young to start riding. I would not like them to ride and I am not actively encouraging them. However, all of us that ride for fun are passively encouraging others. We could all see the young kids eyeballing the bikes on the annual ride out. They could all see the fun that we derive from biking especially when we where all parked up in Tesco.
Should either of my daughters show a determination to start riding then I would strongly encourage the safety aspect. I would expect then to ride with the same level of caution that I do, ie. Boots, gloves, full face lid, armoured trousers and jacket, no matter the distance or weather.
Last Action Pimp
24-06-05, 08:49 AM
Your daughter? Mine asked too, I said NO. She said so there's one rule for you and another for everyone else? and I said yes. She wan't happy. My view on this is very simple: as a parent my primary genetic role is to ensure that my offspring survive. Biking will only lessen this chance and on top of that the worry would be crippling. When she's fully an adult and is financially and legally responsible for her life then I will be powerless to stop her so I'll have to live with it if she decides to ride.
i dissagree here, i think that you should let her get a bike if she wants one. what would you do if ur son wanted one??
when she is a adult and can afford abike she might be able to do her DAS
then she could jump straight onto a hyabusa or sumit. i would make her do her restriced liance before she is 21. and sell her your sv and buy a tl
Nothing wrong with encouragement.
It's not to say you're saying 'yes you must', just 'i'm kewl with it and will help if u want to learn'.
Still her choice in the end.
:D
The Ping from DelMonte, she say YES! :D
;)
Balky001
24-06-05, 09:27 AM
I can see JB's point of view, I mean since when was parenting about fairness and democracy? It's more about learning and protection and making the right decision. But at some point you have to let go and trust your children's ability to make the right choice. Sometimes its more about losing your control/position of authority in their life than believing they can handle something you see as dangerous. But I also think it comes down to the child - some you can trust with looking after themselves, others you know will just psycho out on speed/peer pressure. I don't think there is a single decision that fits all.
If you think your daughter will ride sensiblly enough to handle being in traffic on a bike then go for it, but of course, whether that decision is right or wrong, if anything ever happens you'll probably blame yourself. But where do you draw the line in stopping them do what is legal and fun? Just make sure she knows how to ride first and then hide her keys for 3 months!
MichelleC
24-06-05, 09:32 AM
Personally I think that it is better to be under your wing than someone who you don't know and don't trust. At least you can give her advice and guidance to make the right choice for her.
It is the best thing ever did and would never turn back :D
I think it all depends on how well you know your daughter if you feel you can trust her to then go for it yeah you can't stop some N*b head from pulling out of a junction on her but you can help equip her with the right tools to avoid stuff like that to the best of her ability.
Anonymous
24-06-05, 09:52 AM
I said 'no' to encourage, but if she wants to learn give her all the help & support you can - I was told 'I couldn't get a bike' by my parents, so I went behind their back & got one anyway... Much better to be in the know, than not IMHO :wink:
Sounds Familier.. i just went out one saturday with a friend in his car and returned in the evening on a nice shiny motorbike...
My mum was not impressed, but couldnt exactly do anything considering i was there puttin it in the garage.
She still hates me having bikes now, but think she realises it aint going. The only way im gettin rid is if someone prys it out of my cold dead hands.
:shock:
Biker Biggles
24-06-05, 08:05 PM
A slightly different angle is to consider the alternatives.We all know biking can be dangerous and thats why you are potentially falling out with your daughter,but oft overlooked is how dangerous car use is for this age group.I lose track of the number of serious and fatal CAR crashes I can recall involving late teens and early twenties occupants.
Godikus
24-06-05, 08:39 PM
Also consider it might be safer for us lot if they end up on bikes rather than cars.
My 7 yo daughter is itching to get on my bike. She can reach the pegs but no way would I take her cos she'd fidget too much. But she keeps on about it, 'please daddy, just down the road'.
I will take her - later rather than sooner, and when she's old enough I'd far rather know that she had a bike so I could cluck and supervise than she did it behind my back. If she wanted to go bungee jumping, I'd let her. Similarly if she wanted to do a parachute jump. So why not a bike, as long as she was properly trained? I know the danger, I know what it's like to hit England hard, but I wouldn't dream of stopping her from doing something she really wanted to do. I firmly believe that you can't wrap in cotton wool for ever, and so easing kids into positions where they can make sensible, responsible and informed decisions is best.
I'm with Jonboy here...
If or when I have kids there is no way they are getting a bike whilst at home.
Once they've grown up and got responsible fine - I got my bike just after my 24th birthday. By that point I'd got over my main stupid phase. Thankfully I got over my stupid phase when driving a little Fiesta and 205. Both very forgiving and not that powerful to mess up with in the first place.
Giving someone who hasn't got overtheir stupid phase a peice of machinery that can get to daft speeds, in very short spaces of time isn't the best idea. IMHO.
I know there are a lot of people here who are younger than 24, and you may not do stupid things - but the temptation is there and most people I knew when I was that age were quite likely to give in to it (me included).
I also agree with the idea of getting a car for a few years first to get some road sense before jumping onto a bike.
Godikus
26-06-05, 12:19 AM
I'm with Jonboy here...
If or when I have kids there is no way they are getting a bike whilst at home.
Once they've grown up and got responsible fine - I got my bike just after my 24th birthday. By that point I'd got over my main stupid phase. Thankfully I got over my stupid phase when driving a little Fiesta and 205. Both very forgiving and not that powerful to mess up with in the first place.
Giving someone who hasn't got overtheir stupid phase a peice of machinery that can get to daft speeds, in very short spaces of time isn't the best idea. IMHO.
I know there are a lot of people here who are younger than 24, and you may not do stupid things - but the temptation is there and most people I knew when I was that age were quite likely to give in to it (me included).
I also agree with the idea of getting a car for a few years first to get some road sense before jumping onto a bike.
thankfully i had got over my stupid phase by 15 after constant pub crawls from 13 and now i'm 22 (next month) i really am regretting it. anyway my point is. i was living with my parents when i was over my stupid phase. i didn't take stupid risks, and didn't show off infront of my mates. would you let your kid/kids get a bike if you thaught they honestly were over there "stupid phase" at an early age?
The only way im gettin rid is if someone prys it out of my cold dead hands.
:shock:
Thats exactly what she's worried about.
Don't encourage - support your daughter, and don't make it easy - getting into motorbikes isn't cheap and if she has to finance the whole thing herself it hopefully will add to her desire to avoid harm.
My dad wouldn't allow a motorbike under his roof so being fair minded he taught me to drive at 17 and gave me full access to his car - I was a nutter - it was all just too easy and I had no respect for the implications, for 12 months I was on a police watch list, I was stopped every time I went out.
Saint Matt
26-06-05, 08:25 AM
Encourage, she sounds like she knows the score on biking, but as said before, getting her on a dirt bike first would be a great idea! grass is (slightly) softer! If my dad hadn't encouraged me to do my cbt on a geared bike i wouldn't have had another one as it was such a lot of fun!
She could want to do mutch worse.
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