Clutchless Gear Changes?

[sweepdoggydog]

Hi,

I've just passed my DAS and treated myself to a K4 Sv650s, which I love. When I was doing my DAS the instructor said that after I’d passed not to bother using the clutch changing up the gears, just roll of the throttle and shift up, and I’ve read similar things on the internet and magazines. However, whenever I try to do it when out on the bike I cant physically shift up without the use of the clutch. Is it the bike that is stopping me from doing this or is it my method?
Help would be much appreciated
Cheers

[Scoobs]

Apply a little upwards pressure to the gear shift while you are on the gas. Then gently roll off the throttle. It should then snick up into the next gear.

[Balky001]

sweepdoggydog, its all in the timing. If you follow scoobs advice you'll find it easier to engage a gear when rolling off. I found my SV a bit stiff for clutchless upshifts when I first started doing them but you'll roll off and shift at the same time after a bit of practise

[TC3]

Does this not cause excess wear and tear somehow?

[instigator]

I do it mostly when I'm tearing along at a fair old lick. Saves a good bit of time and is much easier on the old hand muscles.

No idea about wearing it down, it would nacker it if you do it wrong repeatedly but would take a while to do so. Makes gear changes incredibly quick.

My method being as you'r riding along, ease off on the throttle, so you're not as full on but neither are you de-accelerating. For practise, try doing it when you're maybe 3/5's revs and have the gas so you're at a steady pace. Do it in 3rd or 4th as well, doing it in 1st or 2nd can be very clunky/jerky when you're learning to do it.

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

Does this not cause excess wear and tear somehow?

Not if it's done smoothly... if done right it probably causes less wear (certainly none or as good as none on the clutch). Though it takes time to get that smooth.

Sometimes I do it and sometimes I don't. I wouldn't say it was something you would do all of the time, just when you want to. As said above, it's easier and more beneficial to do when you're really going for it, rather than pootling about at town speeds - it can be harder to do then. Have a try and see how you get on with it.

[sweepdoggydog]

cheers everyone, i'll give it a go tomorrow when i'm out and about and let you know how i get on!!

[Muttley]

. I found my SV a bit stiff for clutchless upshifts when I first started doing them

I found the same thing, I used to do cluthless shifts on my RS125 no problems, but when I tried on the SV I found I prefered using the clutch as the clutchless shift seemed stiff and heavy, after a month or so clutchless shifts weren't a problem. Maybe it just needed to bed in a bit.

I clutchless shift all the time now. :)

[Jelster]

You may often find that going from 1st to 2nd is not that easy. Practice on 2nd->3rd, & 3rd->4th, you'll find that much easier at first.

.

[adam]

Good advice to practice in the mid to higher gears , you'll get thrown about less if you don't get it right. 1st>2nd takes a lot of smoothness to perfect but definitely rewarding - Especially as then you can practice launch and go for 0-60 times using one of those timer things that came free with fast car mag last month i think. :D :lol:

[uthaug]

Read this article. Then you'll know what to do and what not to do :wink:
http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/shifting.html

[thor]

You may often find that going from 1st to 2nd is not that easy. Practice on 2nd->3rd, & 3rd->4th, you'll find that much easier at first.

.

Yup. I tend to find it's easier when in the top half of the rev range too.

[NitroNorry]

There was a thread on here a while back about this - which you might want to search for.

I took a while to crack it but now do it at will. Like others have said, it's easier and more benefit to use this when accelerating hard. To start with, I used to put a small amount of upward pressure on just before blipping the throttle off and back - now it just flows.

Martin

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

And once you have the clutchless upshifting sorted be VERY careful on the SV if you get tempted to try downshifting without the clutch. It's very easy to lock the rear wheel especially in the lower gears.

[jambo]

Good clutchless upshifts do no harm, but down shifts can be a very different story. I wouldn't (and have never) bothered, but heed the advice above if you want to try.

[Ceri JC]

Good clutchless upshifts do no harm, but down shifts can be a very different story. I wouldn't (and have never) bothered, but heed the advice above if you want to try.

I've clutchless downshifted a few times (only the first time was intentional, the other two have been accidental) and it is indeed true you can lock the rear up. :oops: :D

I don't really see the point in clutchless downshifting as you're braking so it's not like you're really getting the speed benefit of clutchless upshifting(I suppose you're maintaining engine braking though).

I recently tried to get back to clutchless upshifting (I did it a bit last year, but never got confident at it). I'll re-iterate the advice I was given which I found to be useful and has resulted in me now being very comfortable with it:

1st->2nd is a bit of a no no.
2nd->3rd is probably the trickiest one I do. I think the reason it's harder is that it's mentally harder to make yourself rev the engine hard enough in this gear, due to the noise/feel of it.

The other gearchanges are fine with a bit of practice.

Take the slack out of the gear pedal by pushing it lightly to the point just before the gearchange, a bit like using a trigger on a gun.

Wait till you're well up the powerband before changing (if you're not it'll be harder, plus, what's the point of changing up so fast if you're not in a rush?)

Back of the throttle just before you actually pull up into gear.

Don't worry if it's a bit jerky to begin with- you will get better with practice.

[wyrdness]

IMO it's only worth doing if you're accelerating hard. I always use the clutch if I'm riding in a relaxed manner and only clutchless upshift if I'm pushing things a bit. I haven't bothered since getting the Speed Triple as it accelerates so quickly anyway.

[Ping]

IMO it's only worth doing if you're accelerating hard. I always use the clutch if I'm riding in a relaxed manner and only clutchless upshift if I'm pushing things a bit. I haven't bothered since getting the Speed Triple as it accelerates so quickly anyway.
I tried the other night and failed... :? Gear lever wouldn't shift up...

[Flamin_Squirrel]

IMO it's only worth doing if you're accelerating hard. I always use the clutch if I'm riding in a relaxed manner and only clutchless upshift if I'm pushing things a bit. I haven't bothered since getting the Speed Triple as it accelerates so quickly anyway.
I tried the other night and failed... :? Gear lever wouldn't shift up...

I wouldn't worry about it, there's not alot of point :)

[Viney]

IMO it's only worth doing if you're accelerating hard. I always use the clutch if I'm riding in a relaxed manner and only clutchless upshift if I'm pushing things a bit. I haven't bothered since getting the Speed Triple as it accelerates so quickly anyway.
I tried the other night and failed... :? Gear lever wouldn't shift up...

I wouldn't worry about it, there's not alot of point :)

Look, it saves 0.2345672435 seconds..this is all improtant ;)

I clutchless downshift as well, but that takes practice :D

[Flamin_Squirrel]

IMO it's only worth doing if you're accelerating hard. I always use the clutch if I'm riding in a relaxed manner and only clutchless upshift if I'm pushing things a bit. I haven't bothered since getting the Speed Triple as it accelerates so quickly anyway.
I tried the other night and failed... :? Gear lever wouldn't shift up...

I wouldn't worry about it, there's not alot of point :)

Look, it saves 0.2345672435 seconds..this is all improtant ;)

I clutchless downshift as well, but that takes practice :D

And that's even more pointless than clutchless up shifting :lol:

[Peter Henry]

Dont hate me but in my opinion clutchless gear shifts are in my opinion a pretty pointless exercise for whatever gain anyone might think they are getting by using it. I could only see track use when really pushing things to the limit where any minor advantage might be gained.
In the 28 years I have been riding,I have used it but really do not feel it is worth it.( Maybe this stems from my mechanical background which would tell me that the clutch is there for a purpose?) :? 8)