View Full Version : I saw a biker knocked down last night...
Down Commercial Rd last night on my way home from work, there's a bike about 15ft in front of me and we're in the bus lane passing the traffic when this big jag suddenly goes to chuck a left into a side road.
SMACK!
Aprilia goes flying onto the footpath, rider gets flung in the air like a ragdoll, bounces off the road once, and then into the curb which flung him round facing the way we'd just come from.
I had to slam on Roger's anchors to avoid hitting the Jag.
The Jag driver pulls into the side road and stops (I was pleased that at least it was a decent enough person to stop considering the amount of hit'n'runs we've heard so much about lately). I pull over to the side of the road and get off the bike, by which time loads of bystanders have run over to see to the rider and about 5 or six of them are calling for emerency services.
Rider seemed ok as he was responding to the cyclist who came over to help. Cyclist made sure he didn't move and asked him the important questions. Firetruck, ambulance and then police arrive on the scene.
Firemen cordon off the area, Rider's eventually stuck on a board and loaded into the ambulance and the police take statements (I'm half expecting a ticket through the post for admitting being in the bus lane).
The whole thing could've been so much worse tho... the aprilia being flung onto the footpath could've hit a pedestrian but luckily didn't...
It wasn't me that got knocked off but I was quite shaken up. Shakey hands and everything. :lol: Bizarre. Downed rider had only been wearing a leather jacket , office trousers and shoes (and gloves). Christ I bet he hurts today... :?
I hope he had no serious injuries and I hope not to see anything like that again. It hits home how vulnerable we are.
On the upside, I got to talk to lots of firemen who seemed to take a liking to my bike. :)
mysteryjimbo
12-08-05, 08:43 AM
It wasn't me that got knocked off but I was quite shaken up. Shakey hands and everything. :lol: Bizarre. Downed rider had only been wearing a leather jacket , office trousers and shoes (and gloves). Christ I bet he hurts today... :?
I got T-boned in similar clothing and didnt hurt that much. Admittedly i had the anchors on for a second or two so wasnt going really fast.
Glad all was ok and that the driver wasnt an ****. You could have chased and got his number if had have driven off... :wink:
Professor
12-08-05, 08:53 AM
I'm half expecting a ticket through the post for admitting being in the bus lane.
It is really stupid that in London bikes are not allowed to use bus lanes.
In the Bristol/Bath area all bus lanes I know of allow bikes.
ok so its sounds like you were filtering in the bus lane? was it a peak hour bus lane where you're allowed to use the lane after 7pm etc?
Did the Jag indicate and not see him, or did he just turn without indicating and checking?
I'm so cautious of using or filtering in bus lanes near side roads these days, after a couple of close calls. I once got a ticket from using a bus lane, so I dont bother using them now unless I know theres no cameras, and side roads.
ok so its sounds like you were filtering in the bus lane? was it a peak hour bus lane where you're allowed to use the lane after 7pm etc?
Did the Jag indicate and not see him, or did he just turn without indicating and checking?
I'm so cautious of using or filtering in bus lanes near side roads these days, after a couple of close calls. I once got a ticket from using a bus lane, so I dont bother using them now unless I know theres no cameras, and side roads.
We were in the bus lane before 7pm and it's a stretch that we're not allowed to use. This is the stupid thing as just up the road a bit it turns into a bus lane that bikes ARE allowed to use.
The Jag flicked the indicator on and went, pretty much simultaneously. I didn't see whether they'd looked or not as I wasn't watching it until it jumped out of the line of traffic which was moving at around 15mph. The aprilia was accellerating and about level with it's rear end. Possibly in it's blind spot.
I was running over this in my mind last night. The issue of whether it IS safer to use the bus lanes or filter down the outside. The conclusion I came to is it doesn't matter which way you're filtering, someone can do a move like that irrespectively. If they don't think anything's coming, they'll go for it.
I'll stick to bus lanes for ease of use and just be careful at junctions and crossings as normal.
The secret is to ride as though you're completely invisible. Think about it, if you were indeed absolutely invisible wouldn't you ride just that little bit different? One of the reasons I'm convinced that hi-vis gear sub-consciously makes the rider think they're safer than they are.
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ok so its sounds like you were filtering in the bus lane? was it a peak hour bus lane where you're allowed to use the lane after 7pm etc?
Did the Jag indicate and not see him, or did he just turn without indicating and checking?
I'm so cautious of using or filtering in bus lanes near side roads these days, after a couple of close calls. I once got a ticket from using a bus lane, so I dont bother using them now unless I know theres no cameras, and side roads.
We were in the bus lane before 7pm and it's a stretch that we're not allowed to use. This is the stupid thing as just up the road a bit it turns into a bus lane that bikes ARE allowed to use.
The Jag flicked the indicator on and went, pretty much simultaneously. I didn't see whether they'd looked or not as I wasn't watching it until it jumped out of the line of traffic which was moving at around 15mph. The aprilia was accellerating and about level with it's rear end. Possibly in it's blind spot.
I was running over this in my mind last night. The issue of whether it IS safer to use the bus lanes or filter down the outside. The conclusion I came to is it doesn't matter which way you're filtering, someone can do a move like that irrespectively. If they don't think anything's coming, they'll go for it.
I'll stick to bus lanes for ease of use and just be careful at junctions and crossings as normal.
Use your head. If you are in a bus lane that you are not meant to be in and you get knocked off like that guy you saw....you have not got a leg to stand on....you are in a part of the road you should not legally be in and that will be the Jag drivers argument
Preferable to being catapulted into oncoming traffic and taking worse injuries.
Edit: Besides, if SOME of that bus lane is bike friendly, ALL of it should be. He WOULD have a leg to stand on if it had happened further up the road and that's ridiculous.
Use your head. If you are in a bus lane that you are not meant to be in and you get knocked off like that guy you saw....you have not got a leg to stand on....you are in a part of the road you should not legally be in and that will be the Jag drivers argument
wrong. wrong. wrong. and did I say youre wrong? :P :lol:
for starters whether you are legally in the bus lane or not does not reduce the onus on the car driver to check his mirrors.
After all bus lanes are used by cyclists, taxis and buses. And the guy could have hit any one of them. Everyone who uses the A13 at that time cant miss the fact buses, taxis and cyclists are using that lane nearly constantly. Any road manoeuver by any road user should only be done when its safe to do so, basic highway code. Whether scooter rider is in the lane illegally is irrelevant as said before what if it had been a bus/cyclist/taxi?
Im presuming it was near the Mcdonalds as I saw ambulance and plod there when I rode past last night.
Though I have to say riding that road daily I do ride expecting cars to do that when I am legally in the bus lanes [late working hours are fab :D ]. It doesnt help that a lot of the side roads are usually hidden from view and cars coming out of them use the bus lane/traffic lane line as their streets stop line :evil:
Carsick
12-08-05, 12:22 PM
Use your head. If you are in a bus lane that you are not meant to be in and you get knocked off like that guy you saw....you have not got a leg to stand on....you are in a part of the road you should not legally be in and that will be the Jag drivers argument
They have every leg to stand on. All road users have a duty to ensure that the way is clear before they start any maneuver.
So anyway... were any of the Firemen worth a second look? :wink:
You girls! :roll: :lol: .
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So anyway... were any of the Firemen worth a second look? :wink:
Deb (CoolGirl) works next to an entire station full of them. Let's arrange a rideout to there... :wink:
So anyway... were any of the Firemen worth a second look? :wink:
I think you're confusing this section with Idle Banter :roll:
Ping,
I know how you feel, saw a chap go head first over a car at the beginning of this year. Car driver got out and ran away. After somersaulting down the road, the rider, amazingly, was intact! It was particularly chilling as it was almost an identical collision to Coombest's, only a couple of months before.
At least they've got the Jag driver. I'm sure he should expect no less than 6 points for driving without due care etc. I can only hope that the rider was not too badly battered, broken, or bruised. These things can take an age to heal.
Anyway, hope you're alright. Learn from it as much as you can. :(
Im presuming it was near the Mcdonalds as I saw ambulance and plod there when I rode past last night.
Yup, that was the place. No fire engine when you went past tho?
K - :lol: :lol: :lol: They were ALL very schweeeeeeeeeeeeet. They're firemen after all. ;) I don't think any of 'em were shorter than 6ft... One of 'em was cracking jokes to me about the 'charm school' the police obviously went to... :lol: 8)
Firemen.... *sigh* :love: :lol:
Billy: I've learned that we are very floppy when we're catapulted into the air and hit things...
Edit: Cazza - what an EXCELLENT idea! :D
Use your head. If you are in a bus lane that you are not meant to be in and you get knocked off like that guy you saw....you have not got a leg to stand on....you are in a part of the road you should not legally be in and that will be the Jag drivers argument
They have every leg to stand on. All road users have a duty to ensure that the way is clear before they start any maneuver.
Logically that is true but i am pretty sure that the biker in a bus lane which he is not legally allowed to be in will be the one who loses out. I am not on the drivers side, am just showing the argument that is bound to build up between the biker and car driver if you know what i mean
Jelster
12-08-05, 02:01 PM
Is there not a bit in the Highway Code that states "Never do anything to make another vehicle change speed or direction" ?
Well it made him stop, and definately changed his direction !!!
And it could have been a pushbike who has every right (by law) to be there (did I just say that??).
Use your head. If you are in a bus lane that you are not meant to be in and you get knocked off like that guy you saw....you have not got a leg to stand on....you are in a part of the road you should not legally be in and that will be the Jag drivers argument
They have every leg to stand on. All road users have a duty to ensure that the way is clear before they start any maneuver.
Logically that is true but i am pretty sure that the biker in a bus lane which he is not legally allowed to be in will be the one who loses out. I am not on the drivers side, am just showing the argument that is bound to build up between the biker and car driver if you know what i mean
I'd pretty much come to the same conclusion before reading the other posts... I certainly don't think it'll help the biker's case considering how bikers are seemingly viewed in legal circles...
Im presuming it was near the Mcdonalds as I saw ambulance and plod there when I rode past last night.
Yup, that was the place. No fire engine when you went past tho?
tbh I was more concerned with the merc that was driving erratically giving me the idea he was about to try and do the same thing as happened to the guy on the aprilia. so I saw the ambulance and police and the aprilia parked up but then went back to concentrating very hard on the merc.
K - :lol: :lol: :lol: They were ALL very schweeeeeeeeeeeeet. They're firemen after all. ;) I don't think any of 'em were shorter than 6ft... One of 'em was cracking jokes to me about the 'charm school' the police obviously went to... :lol: 8)
Firemen.... *sigh* :love: :lol: you know they wouldve come from the station just before aldgate roundabout? just so you know where to direct the rideout to :lol: :lol: :lol:
Shame you cant point aprilia rider to the filtering letter. While different circumstances it does clearly show the onus is on the car driver to make the observations before moving and only do so if its clear. After all as said before wouldve been worse if it were a cyclist or bus.
Though tbh I am amazed by how some people ride down that road oblivious to the extremely high number of hazzards that are there. Commercial St and Commercial Rd are probably the most dangerous parts of my daily commute without doubt.
I was running over this in my mind last night. The issue of whether it IS safer to use the bus lanes or filter down the outside. The conclusion I came to is it doesn't matter which way you're filtering, someone can do a move like that irrespectively. If they don't think anything's coming, they'll go for it.
Well, indeed. To bring my post back on track after the firemen comments (sorry Bill) - whenever I'm filtering I do my best to watch what the cars I'm passing are doing / look like they're about to do. As was evident this morning when my use of horn and brakes just about prevented a car stuck in heavy traffic from hitting me as it started to swing out in front of me to do a U-turn. :roll:
And as has been said many times by many people - sometimes the most important thing isn't who was right or wrong - at the end of the day us bikers will inevitably come off worse. Prevention is the best tactic whenever possible.
...whenever I'm filtering I do my best to watch what the cars I'm passing are doing / look like they're about to do.
This really is almost the only line of defence open to bikes: observation and anticipation. Too many bikers just ride on oblivious to what's really going on around them and then wonder why afterwards the car driver didn't see them. Car drivers don't see us, period. Thus, ride accordingly.
Prevention is the best tactic whenever possible.
Exactly.
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To be honest guys, he'd have needed a callback from the psychic hotline to see this one coming. You can expect the unexpected, but sometimes when the unexpected comes there's nothing you can do about it.
Sure, he could've slowed down when he saw the side road coming up, but then he would've only gone into the side of them instead of being thrown down the road. They pulled out THAT fast.
I was 15ish ft behind him and still had to emergency brake to avoid plowing into the Jag.
To be honest guys, he'd have needed a callback from the psychic hotline to see this one coming. You can expect the unexpected, but sometimes when the unexpected comes there's nothing you can do about it.
Sure, he could've slowed down when he saw the side road coming up, but then he would've only gone into the side of them instead of being thrown down the road. They pulled out THAT fast.
I was 15ish ft behind him and still had to emergency brake to avoid plowing into the Jag.
On the A13? No need for psychic hotline I ride expecting every car to do it because it happens so often. Ive often maintained its MOST dangerous when cars are stationary and not moving than when traffics moving. Thats the time impatience creeps in and the likelihood of a uturn, left turn across the bus lane really increases. If traffics stationary Im really really slow and prepared for the worst.
I expect peds to walk out from between cars, taxis to change lanes, cars to stop at the bus lane/road line as their stop sign, cars not looking when turning at last minute into a side road because all of those things have happened EVERY SINGLE DAY Ive ridden that road in the past year.
Thats why I always let everyone go ahead now and go so so slowly. Id rather get to work 10 mins later than not at all given after Commercial Road I have the insanity of Aldgate roundabout and Commercial St to deal with.
Biker Biggles
12-08-05, 05:55 PM
I ride like that everywhere.There's a thread about me somewhere causing traffic/bike jams :lol: :lol: :lol:
On the A13? No need for psychic hotline I ride expecting every car to do it because it happens so often. Ive often maintained its MOST dangerous when cars are stationary and not moving than when traffics moving. Thats the time impatience creeps in and the likelihood of a uturn, left turn across the bus lane really increases. If traffics stationary Im really really slow and prepared for the worst.
I expect peds to walk out from between cars, taxis to change lanes, cars to stop at the bus lane/road line as their stop sign, cars not looking when turning at last minute into a side road because all of those things have happened EVERY SINGLE DAY Ive ridden that road in the past year.
Thats why I always let everyone go ahead now and go so so slowly. Id rather get to work 10 mins later than not at all given after Commercial Road I have the insanity of Aldgate roundabout and Commercial St to deal with.
Completely agree, you really need to concentrate fully and be ready for the worst in the East End. I've probably mentioned it before but East London in general is the worst place I've seen for a biker, and the situation is made worse because there are a lot of uninsured and unlicensed drivers about as well. Unfortunately I can't avoid it as I live in the East End, probably why I ride so sloooow :oops: :lol: .
I ride like that everywhere.There's a thread about me somewhere causing traffic/bike jams :lol: :lol: :lol:
I move out the way when I can.
But recently Ive been getting extremely agitated with scooters riding in my blind spot about a foot off my rear. That roads hard enough with the sheer number of hazzards as is let alone the muppets that do that. :evil:
But Im almost as slow as the traffic down that road. I see bikes nipping by at 40+ and I shudder knowing they got no chance if someone does something stupid. :(
northwind
12-08-05, 07:16 PM
I bet you a pound it ends up a 50/50...
My opinion? Yes, the driver should have seen the biker, but equally the biker should not have been there to be hit. That's a pretty dangerous situation, basically the same as overtaking past a junction- if you do it, you want to be 100% sure the way's clear. I use bus lanes constantly (even though we're not allowed here) but any time I come past a junction you'd better bet I make absolutely sure nobody's going down it. And I don't mean having a look as I approach, I mean slowing it right down where neccesary.
The fact is, drivers will assume a bus lane's empty unless they can see a bus- he probably did look, he just wasn't looking for bikes.
But recently Ive been getting extremely agitated with scooters riding in my blind spot about a foot off my rear. That roads hard enough with the sheer number of hazzards as is let alone the muppets that do that. :evil:
The best bit is when you slow down as you approach traffic and just as you're about to move over to filter past they whizz past you :evil:.
The fact is, drivers will assume a bus lane's empty unless they can see a bus- he probably did look, he just wasn't looking for bikes.
which is extremely bad on the part of the driver given there are usually pedestrians using it to cross, cyclists and taxis [and in London there are a fair few of them] and a lot of couriers on bikes still use it as there are no bus lane cameras [yet].
The other thing I would say is if this guy had got as far down the A13 as the McDonalds he would have to be EXTREMELY brain dead to be completely unaware of the constant stream of taxis, buses, bikes and cyclists at that time of night in the bus lane next to him.
And it really is irrelevant whether you should be in the bus lane or not. The fact is the aprilia guy was there and the driver made the manouever without ensuring it was safe to do so. One mirror check and it wouldnt of happened. Thats the principle I won my case in October on as well. :D
northwind
12-08-05, 07:50 PM
I just reread the first post, the driver turned across the bike into a left didn't he? I was thinking he'd turned across the stream of traffic for some reason (ie he was travelling in the other direction from the bike) That does change it a lot. But I'm still going to say it's a 50/50.
The fact is, drivers will assume a bus lane's empty unless they can see a bus- he probably did look, he just wasn't looking for bikes.
which is extremely bad on the part of the driver given there are usually pedestrians using it to cross, cyclists and taxis [and in London there are a fair few of them] and a lot of couriers on bikes still use it as there are no bus lane cameras [yet].
The other thing I would say is if this guy had got as far down the A13 as the McDonalds he would have to be EXTREMELY brain dead to be completely unaware of the constant stream of taxis, buses, bikes and cyclists at that time of night in the bus lane next to him.
And it really is irrelevant whether you should be in the bus lane or not. The fact is the aprilia guy was there and the driver made the manouever without ensuring it was safe to do so. One mirror check and it wouldnt of happened. Thats the principle I won my case in October on as well. :D
....but it is relevant he was in a part of the road that he was not legally entitled to be.....can you not see that? If you take additional chances expect to pay for it sooner or later....as if biking wasnt dangerous enough
....but it is relevant he was in a part of the road that he was not legally entitled to be.....can you not see that? If you take additional chances expect to pay for it sooner or later....as if biking wasnt dangerous enough
No its not relevant. And no I cant see it being so.
1. Highway code says you make a manouver ONLY WHEN its safe to do so.
2. To check its safe you use mirrors, or in case of bikes a life saver too.
3. If its clear and safe to do the manouver then you do it, if its not you wait til it is safe to do so.
with me so far?
The onus is on the person making the manouver to make sure its safe. To say fault lies in the legality of the other person is mad.
Is it illegal for pedestrians to be on the road if theyre crossing it? What about the cyclists, buses and taxis that are legally allowed to use the lane at that time?
Hypothetically, if he took a cyclist out as well as the Aprilia at the same time are you seriously saying to me that it would be the Aprilias partly to blame for being there when he shouldnt [50/50 for him] but driver entirely to blame for the cyclist? :roll:
The point Im making that you cant see is legality is not relevant here which my hypothetical situation highlights the daftness of trying to make it so.
Any fault on the Aprilia riders part is entirely down to him not anticipating the muppets who drive down that road and not being slow enough to stop or observe what drivers are doing. Not down to the legality of him being there.
northwind
12-08-05, 08:53 PM
How fast was the bike moving at the time, is the critical question for me. If he was shifting, then it's perfectly possible that the driver made sufficient observations to see any road user that could legally have been there and acted as a result. Not sayign that's the case, but it's possible.
How fast was the bike moving at the time, is the critical question for me. If he was shifting, then it's perfectly possible that the driver made sufficient observations to see any road user that could legally have been there and acted as a result. Not sayign that's the case, but it's possible.
which is what I suspect is the case. Too many bikes cane it down that bus lane without any regard for the hazzards. :?
Incidentally this is the same road that a boy kicked a football across a pedestrian crossing while it was green for traffic. :? Just to give you an idea that its a seriously mental road with unexpected hazzards. :?
not sure on the legality of this one but to my mind if you weren't supposed to be in that lane then it will count against you in any legal action. On the A13 I NEVER use the bus lanes and either filter up the right hand side of the cars or be patient. I am an old fart and would rather be late than lying in the road waiting for the sirens to arrive :?
I know it was not a nice or particularly good piece of driving on the Jag's part and my thoughts go out to the rider but using a bus lane illegally is the same as undertaking in virtually all respects so if one chooses to do it at least be going slow enough and aware enough to avoid these car drivers ,that we have never met and don't know so why trust your safety to them, when they swerve without warning.
drving without due care and attention for the jag, and riding in bus lane for the bike... looks like 50:50 to me. although in most cases, the driver will certainly argue that he made observations before turning in and acusing the bike was speeding... but still looks 50:50 to me
....but it is relevant he was in a part of the road that he was not legally entitled to be.....can you not see that? If you take additional chances expect to pay for it sooner or later....as if biking wasnt dangerous enough
No its not relevant. And no I cant see it being so.
That is your opinion which is fine but it will be relevant for the car drivers insurance who will fight the case saying the biker was breaking the law. You do know how insurance works i hope :roll:
1. Highway code says you make a manouver ONLY WHEN its safe to do so.
2. To check its safe you use mirrors, or in case of bikes a life saver too.
3. If its clear and safe to do the manouver then you do it, if its not you wait til it is safe to do so.
yep u are correct. However it is much harder to prove the car driver did not adhere to the highway code as he will most certainly say the biker was speeding and it is so much easier to prove the biker should not have been in the bus lane
with me so far?
are you with me so far?
The onus is on the person making the manouver to make sure its safe. To say fault lies in the legality of the other person is mad.
it is just as much on the individual to make sure they are not breaking the law............................................... .....
Is it illegal for pedestrians to be on the road if theyre crossing it? What about the cyclists, buses and taxis that are legally allowed to use the lane at that time?
What sort of a question is that? What are you saying as it makes no sense to me
Hypothetically, if he took a cyclist out as well as the Aprilia at the same time are you seriously saying to me that it would be the Aprilias partly to blame for being there when he shouldnt [50/50 for him] but driver entirely to blame for the cyclist? :roll:
save the discussion for the situation that has occurred and not one you dream up
The point Im making that you cant see is legality is not relevant here which my hypothetical situation highlights the daftness of trying to make it so.
So wrong....at the end of the day it is the legality of the case that will tip the case in favour of car driver...
Any fault on the Aprilia riders part is entirely down to him not anticipating the muppets who drive down that road and not being slow enough to stop or observe what drivers are doing. Not down to the legality of him being there.
The fact that you are a biker is totally blinding you. to me the biker was also being a muppet in this case. It is easy to attack car drivers all the time but when the BIKER is illegaly placed on the road and is doing a manouvere that is putting himself even more at risk then you would have to de an idiot to say that the biker did not have a large part of the blame
I drive both a car and a bike. I like both. Being a biker obviously means i have higher regard for bikes than most car drivers and do my bit in moving aside to let bikes pass etc.
Insurance companies will use any legal angle to win a case and i can honestly say that the biker will lose out in this case.
richwill68
13-08-05, 08:12 AM
Hope this isn't seen as a de-rail but just a bit of useful info'- :D
1 When filtering (legally or otherwise) it is wise to be aware of possible hazards ( a hazard may be defined as anything that contains an amount of actual or potential danger).
2 Also, ensure that your speed relevant to the traffic you are overtaking is not excessive (anything more than about 5-8 mph!).
3 You must also be aware of things that can reasonably be expected to occur (vehicles moving without signalling, pedestrians/vehicles emerging from between stationary or slow moving traffic).
4 And the most important one of all.....ALWAYS be able to stop within the distance you can SEE to be clear (taking into account the points raised above).
Sorry you had to witness this accident. My wishes for a speedy recovery go to the biker concened. :wink:
[quote="Lynw"Hypothetically, if he took a cyclist out as well as the Aprilia at the same time are you seriously saying to me that it would be the Aprilias partly to blame for being there when he shouldnt [50/50 for him] but driver entirely to blame for the cyclist? :roll:
save the discussion for the situation that has occurred and not one you dream up
No. This is making my exact point which you clearly wont deal with. How can you say its the bikers fault cos he shouldnt be there but not a cyclists fault cos he had a right to be there?
Going back to a previous thread when everyone insisted people made mistakes on the road and shouldnt be penalised for them, what if the Aprilia rider made a mistake and assumed the WHOLE A13 was "legal" for bikes in bus lanes as opposed to just the part near Blackwall? Should he be penalised for a mistake?
And quit with the illegal thing. Unless you can quote me an arrestable offence you should realise that bus lanes are defined by the local council and are enforceable by FPNs. Its NOT ILLEGAL to be in one. Just likely to get you a FPN. :roll:
Oh and I won my case in October on the principle that the accident would not have happened had the driver complied with the Highway code. So Im talking from experience in dealing with insurance companies in such a situation [filtering in my case]. Though in my case I could prove I took every caution to avoid an accident and reason it was a slow speed drop was because I wasnt speeding.
Im not saying its not the bikers fault in anyway. If you reread my posts what Im saying is that its likely to be his fault for not anticipating and going too fast for the conditions of that road which is what will count insurance wise against him, as much as it would appear to be the drivers fault for making an unsafe manouver.
[quote="Lynw"Hypothetically, if he took a cyclist out as well as the Aprilia at the same time are you seriously saying to me that it would be the Aprilias partly to blame for being there when he shouldnt [50/50 for him] but driver entirely to blame for the cyclist? :roll:
save the discussion for the situation that has occurred and not one you dream up
No. This is making my exact point which you clearly wont deal with. How can you say its the bikers fault cos he shouldnt be there but not a cyclists fault cos he had a right to be there?
I have to concur here, Lyn is absolutely right.
Although the bike may have been going too fast (but we don't know that) and was technically in breach of the local Road Traffic laws in using the Bus Lane, there is still nevertheless a very clear duty of care to be undertaken by any driver that has to cross it to turn into a side road.
Whether he was a cyclist, pedestrian, car or bike is neither here nor there, the same duty of care exists. Yes the insurance companies will almost definitely do a 50/50 but there again when don't they now?
.
Well i will have to agree to disagree on this one with Lynn but i still back what i have said and that the biker will lose the case
Well i will have to agree to disagree on this one with Lynn but i still back what i have said and that the biker will lose the case
for what its worth I think it will be 50/50. Down to driver making an unsafe manouver and bike going to fast to stop.
And the same thing nearly happened to me Friday week ago on my way to Aldgate down there. Difference between me and the Aprilia?
1. It was gone 10 am and outside the time of the bus lane operation so I was there legitimately. :wink: :D
2. I was reading the road and any slower I wouldve been stationary. So when the car did exactly the same thing to me with no mirror check or indicator I could stop in time.
The main problem with that road is:
1. Bikes can use the bus lanes legitimately til half way down. A lot dont realise that and use them all the way down. Assisted by the fact that there are no bus lane cameras there.
2. Everone can use that lane between 10-4 and after 7pm but they sit like sheep and queue.
If I wanted to queue Id drive in not ride a bike. So I use the lane I can legitimately use which is still safer than going down the outside given the crap in the road, white lines, scooters zipping up behind you, cars doing right turns with little warning, and oncoming traffic that you get doing that. But as Ive said Im riding slow enough and expecting EVERYONE to u turn, turn left or just be a major muppet.
Thats the way to survive that road ime.
Did you guys miss the bit where I said the bike was petty much level with the back end of the jag when it pulled out?
No time. In my opinion he wasn't going to fast.
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