View Full Version : Why don't they teach this in DAS
I've been practising bends again today with mate Karl. He's the IAM 's Chief Observer for Shropshire, so I think he knows a thing or two about the subject.
And it's been a revelation to me. I've honestly learned more in the last 2 weeks than in 2 years. I now think I know how to go round a bend properly. That's not to say that I do it all the time, or with any great finesse, but when it goes right oh it's just sensational. I know when I do it wrong, it feels awful, once today I ended up thinking 'if I was an inch over I'd be in the hedge'. And slowly I'm getting better. One day I hope I'll get it right all the time. And that I'll get a bit faster.
:rant:
But why the hell don't they teach this on DAS? They make you think you can ride a bike, yes I know they teach only to pass the test, so why isn't it included on the test? I was crap on corners and found out the hard way. And I know I'm not the only one. They don't even scratch the surface, and it would be so so easy to tell you. Yes there are a great many things they don't teach you on DAS, no time to do everything no doubt, but as more bike accidents happen on corners than anywhere else, I think it should be an essential skill - and taught properly. It really isn't good enough to make you think that you're half decent when really you're not at all.
Sorry to overegg this pudding but I do feel strongly about it....
Jelster
14-08-05, 09:12 PM
The problem is that there just isn't enough time to teach you anything in any great detail. Like you said, DAS is designed to give you what is needed to be "reasonably safe" on a bike on the road. The real learning starts then....
With hindsight I think that most of us who came the DAS route would have paid for a day or two of additional instruction once we passed the test, when you don't know what you don't know, you can't do anything about it....
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I think this varies from instructor to instructor.
My DAS instructror would spend about an hour or two each day on nice "B" roads teaching us about basic cornering (gear selectection, braking, road position, obeservation, judging the road surface, counter steering etc) also how to overtake properly.
The guy I went with also does a follow up course after you've passed to improve these basic skills.
Wiltshire7
14-08-05, 09:58 PM
i remember talking to the owner of the company i did mine with. He said when someone calls up to ask about lessons they ask 2 questions:
how long
how much.
if they want to make money they have to pass people as quickly as they can. If you could afford a couple of extra days training qwhen u were learning then u should ahve done it as further training. Not once was i ever told once i passed i didnt need to learn more, they simply said once u pass they believe u r ready to start learning on ur own.
At the end of the day the option has always been there to have more lessons, i guess maybe they should encourage it more generally though. |Mine were quite keen on getting me back for more lessons which i did.
northwind
14-08-05, 10:33 PM
I spent a long time just tear-arsing around b-roads on mine... But then, I was on a 4 day course and I could probably have passed by the end of the first day, so the instructors were under no pressure to get me trained... It was pretty good.
dunno - ive often wondered the same thing.
especially when the examiner is wanting to see you in the centre of your lane at all times (unless there are aditional hazards)
this is where all the oil and diesil drips down from cars and lorries.
but then again i suppose learning too much in one go can be really counter productive.
when i first started to train for my IAM test - i read the whole of the roadcraft book - and tried putting it into practice all at once, didnt really improve my riding- its only when i take one section and practice it lots that i become good at it - i move onto the next section.
i remember talking to the owner of the company i did mine with. He said when someone calls up to ask about lessons they ask 2 questions:
how long
how much.
if they want to make money they have to pass people as quickly as they can. If you could afford a couple of extra days training qwhen u were learning then u should ahve done it as further training. Not once was i ever told once i passed i didnt need to learn more, they simply said once u pass they believe u r ready to start learning on ur own.
At the end of the day the option has always been there to have more lessons, i guess maybe they should encourage it more generally though. |Mine were quite keen on getting me back for more lessons which i did.
when I passed my instructor made it very clear I was only good enough to get through the test and not to assume I was a riding goddess and was brilliant.
Im getting training booked with a guy in maidstone who does different courses. When he asked what ones I wanted to do I said the day developmental one, the bends course, the london traffic course, the night course, the winter course...
Basically I sat there realising my skills have stagnated in 4 years and I really want to learn how to ride properly again and feels like I want to start almost from scratch tbh. Maybe its coming off the bike and slowing down so much this year thats put me in that frame of mind, even though it was definitely a mechanical fault on the bike and not really me.
My instructor Steve who teaches at ART riding school in Royston taught us how to take a bend properly. Top geezer who went out of his way to teach us stuff not normally covered in the DAS. I know i was lucky as he is a rare find!
wheelnut
15-08-05, 06:21 AM
The girl who taught me to ride, actually she owns the school and her senior instructor offered after test training called the edge. this is proper road based training that gives you the skills to ride and corner safely.
Im still waiting to do it :oops:
One thing I did get on my DAS, was that it was about a 10 mile ride from the instructors house to the city centre. That always seemed to be done at a faster pace :D And there were a couple of nice bends and a roundabout on a quiet road. It was nice to go round those following one of the instructors with the other riding behind.
My instructor Steve who teaches at ART riding school in Royston taught us how to take a bend properly. Top geezer who went out of his way to teach us stuff not normally covered in the DAS. I know i was lucky as he is a rare find!
He taught me too ;).
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Carsick
15-08-05, 08:41 AM
The girl who taught me to ride, actually she owns the school and her senior instructor offered after test training called the edge. this is proper road based training that gives you the skills to ride and corner safely.
the edge or edge 44 is what they call bikesafe down here.
My instructor Steve who teaches at ART riding school in Royston taught us how to take a bend properly. Top geezer who went out of his way to teach us stuff not normally covered in the DAS. I know i was lucky as he is a rare find!
He taught me too ;).
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Small world! I only passed a few months ago. A mate is about to do the DAS course with Steve too. Excellent riding roads out there and some nice twisty country lanes....never had so much fun over 4 days!
SVeeedy Gonzales
15-08-05, 08:52 PM
It takes time to learn. If they'd tried to teach you countersteering, advanced positioning, etc. on DAS or right after it, you'd probably have had little idea what they were on about, or not been able to take it in, or just plain bottled it (tell anyone who's just passed their test to ride anywhere but the centre of their lane on a bend and see how many will start doing it).
It's probably best to have some time to learn in your own space, then go back in a few months/when you feel ready for more training. I was offered advanced training a year on by the place I got my training from but didn't feel ready for it at the time. Now I'm feeling like doing a bikesafe or IAM course as I know I'm in need of more training and can't seem to progress a lot further by myself.
So long as you go for the extra training as and when you need it (even if it's years before you go) then it's cool...
Cloggsy
15-08-05, 09:08 PM
Seriously going to look at doing my IAM soon :!:
I think it'll do my riding no end of good TBH.
It takes time to learn. If they'd tried to teach you countersteering, advanced positioning, etc. on DAS or right after it, you'd probably have had little idea what they were on about, or not been able to take it in, or just plain bottled it (tell anyone who's just passed their test to ride anywhere but the centre of their lane on a bend and see how many will start doing it).
It's probably best to have some time to learn in your own space, then go back in a few months/when you feel ready for more training. I was offered advanced training a year on by the place I got my training from but didn't feel ready for it at the time. Now I'm feeling like doing a bikesafe or IAM course as I know I'm in need of more training and can't seem to progress a lot further by myself.
So long as you go for the extra training as and when you need it (even if it's years before you go) then it's cool...
I was taught about counter steering which i had never heard of and was encouraged to use it throught out the DAS on the 500cc and i certainly got benefit from it after passing the test. Best bit was doing 60 on a country road with national speed limit with the instructor checking to make sure the road was well clear ahead and us trying out the counter steering using both lanes :D
I was taught about counter steering which i had never heard of and was encouraged to use it throught out the DAS on the 500cc and i certainly got benefit from it after passing the test. Best bit was doing 60 on a country road with national speed limit with the instructor checking to make sure the road was well clear ahead and us trying out the counter steering using both lanes :D
Yes Steve did this with me too, I get the impression that if he thinks you're capable enough he'll push you reasonably hard and he certainly does things most other DAS instuctors don't.
Did he take you through wheelies and stoppies too, like he did me? :lol: :wink:
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I was taught about counter steering which i had never heard of and was encouraged to use it throught out the DAS on the 500cc and i certainly got benefit from it after passing the test. Best bit was doing 60 on a country road with national speed limit with the instructor checking to make sure the road was well clear ahead and us trying out the counter steering using both lanes :D
Yes Steve did this with me too, I get the impression that if he thinks you're capable enough he'll push you reasonably hard and he certainly does things most other DAS instuctors don't.
Did he take you through wheelies and stoppies too, like he did me? :lol: :wink:
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He talked about all sorts of things but can not remember half the stuff now!
SVeeedy Gonzales
16-08-05, 08:50 PM
I'd read about countersteering and broached the subject with the DAS guys and they explained that it wouldn't help much for the test, would take quite a lot of time and I'd be better off getting the test done then learning a bit and coming back for more training when I felt ready. I didn't feel fobbed off by that, it was fair - I wanted to pass the test, then once I'd done that I'd focus on improving in more specific areas.
Guess it depends on the instructor and the pupil - at the time I was so very green... think they did the right thing in steering me away from, um, countersteering...
I'd read about countersteering and broached the subject with the DAS guys and they explained that it wouldn't help much for the test, would take quite a lot of time and I'd be better off getting the test done then learning a bit and coming back for more training when I felt ready. I didn't feel fobbed off by that, it was fair - I wanted to pass the test, then once I'd done that I'd focus on improving in more specific areas.
Guess it depends on the instructor and the pupil - at the time I was so very green... think they did the right thing in steering me away from, um, countersteering...
Maybe - my point is that as so many accidents happen on bends/corners, proper cornering technique should be included. Not necessarily all the physics etc, just how to get round properly.
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