View Full Version : Riding in the rain?
Apologies, lame beginner question....
I didn't have any rain during CBT, DAS, test or last weeks riding, so first rain I've rode in was today. I momentarily considered leaving the bike at home, but no, I'm loving Kylie, she is treating me right, I've got waterproofs, rain ain't going to stop her and I riding in to work.
I think I know most of the standard stuff, like watch out for manhole covers (which seem to be on *every* bend round here), road markings, cats eyes, surface water, diesel spills. Plus there is increased braking distance. Rain on me visor wasn't a problem either, nothing that a glove wipe wouldn't clear.
But I was nervous as hell on anything but a straight line, slow round all corners. I suppose it depends on quality of tyres, road surface, how heavy the rain is etc, but assuming I avoid all the hazards listed above will my bike still have nearly as much grip as I have in the dry, can I still carry speed and lean in to corners? And if it does start to slide, do you get time to countersteer and correct, or is that me over?
Cheers,
Mike.
Heh, lucky you.. I didn my test in the pouring rain. :lol:
I'm no expert but I seem to remember someone saying tyres are only 10% less sticky in the wet... :?:
I'd say carry the speed you're comfortable with (however slow) until you've got the hang of riding on wet surfaces. Eventually you'll stop feeing excessively nervous so will be able to carry more speed round corners.
One BIG thing to watch is that you try to stay as loose as possible because tensing up will cause the most problems.
This is just from my experience and I'm sure someone with more experience will be along soon. :D
I think I know most of the standard stuff, like watch out for manhole covers (which seem to be on *every* bend round here), road markings, cats eyes, surface water, diesel spills. Plus there is increased braking distance. Rain on me visor wasn't a problem either, nothing that a glove wipe wouldn't clear.
Fun isn't it? The wonders of design that mean that every apex and every exit and entrance to a corner have a shiny man-hole cover on them. You'd think it would be too much to ask to recess them a bit and put a bit of tarmac on them (leaving the bits to put the lifting spikes in clear).
But I was nervous as hell on anything but a straight line, slow round all corners. I suppose it depends on quality of tyres, road surface, how heavy the rain is etc, but assuming I avoid all the hazards listed above will my bike still have nearly as much grip as I have in the dry, can I still carry speed and lean in to corners? And if it does start to slide, do you get time to countersteer and correct, or is that me over?
Everything comes with practice. Take your time and you will get more confident. You should be fine in a straight line, corners you will have less grip in the rain and obviouslys longer stopping distances, but keep it sensible and you'll be fine. Yes you can lean into corners - there isn't much choice unless you want to crawl around them. If it starts to slide you've probably found the man-hole cover, keep it smooth and don't panic + slam on the brakes.
Have fun!
MT
Slow and smoooooth is the answer. Riding in rain is so much different to riding in the dry. Just relax and take it easy. You're obviously aware of the hazards, outlined in your post above, but if the front slides you're highly unlikely to save it and really it's more or less the same with the rear (though not slamming the throttle shut and gently counter-steering might save you). As for leaning the bike into corners, my advice would be to go a lot slower and lean a lot less.
jonboy's rule #37: ALL tyres are crap in the wet ;)
At the end of the day you simply need to clock up the wet miles to fully appreciate the skills required to ride safely in wet weather. This doesn't mean it can't be fun, just a different style of riding.
.
But I was nervous as hell on anything but a straight line, slow round all corners. I suppose it depends on quality of tyres, road surface, how heavy the rain is etc, but assuming I avoid all the hazards listed above will my bike still have nearly as much grip as I have in the dry, can I still carry speed and lean in to corners? And if it does start to slide, do you get time to countersteer and correct, or is that me over?
Cheers,
Mike.
I been riding for two yrs now and I still feel like this when it's wet outside, mainly due to an off I had in my first few months of riding. There is no harm in being careful and that's how I think of it, so what if it takes me an extra millisecond round that bend/corner. As long as you do it sfely for you and other road users is all what matters.
Ceri JC
19-08-05, 01:05 PM
I'd take it easy to begin with and don't be afraid to go fairly slow on roundabouts (I nearly dropped my bike, twice, on one particular once near me). Get used to leaning the bike over/carrying more corner speed by building it up slowly and incrementally. It's probably better that you're slow to begin with and build your confidence/awareness of what you can get away with, rather than charge in and bin it.
Once you've ridden in rain a few times you'll get used to it and get a bit quicker. Tyres also play a large part in the grip in the wet. I found stock D220s were rubbish compared to Metzler Z6s, although it may have partly been the placebo effect of knowing they were so much better in the dry, giving me more confidence.
Aside from the obvious cornering and braking, the other thing to watch out for is when you're actually bringing the bike to a stop (ie ~15->0mph). If you're not careful with the back brake, you'll lock the rear wheel up, especially if there's grit/mud on the road too (as Baldyman about my 'going sidewards' in the wet :oops: :D )
Not neccesarily BASAT compliant, but this is all based on my experiences of learning to ride in the wet.
Aside from the obvious cornering and braking, the other thing to watch out for is when you're actually bringing the bike to a stop (ie ~15->0mph). If you're not careful with the back brake, you'll lock the rear wheel up, especially if there's grit/mud on the road too (as Baldyman about my 'going sidewards' in the wet :oops: :D )
Ooh, that reminds me! Watch out for the sv's natural engine braking on wet surfaces... It's caught me out a few times having the back spin out on me... :lol:
Ceri JC
19-08-05, 01:08 PM
At the end of the day you simply need to clock up the wet miles to fully appreciate the skills required to ride safely in wet weather. This doesn't mean it can't be fun, just a different style of riding.
.
This is definately a valid point and one overlooked by a lot of fair weather riders (not having a crack at them). Riding in the wet makes you smoother (through neccessity), which makes you faster and safer in the dry.
It can certainly be fun too. I've gone for recreational rides in light snow (no ice) and had a good time.
Disclaimer: Riding in snow is generally not seen as safe, wise or fun. I liked it though. Of course, you need to ride even more carefully, brake more gently, larger stopping distances, etc.
Why am I talking about snow in August? Well, it is Blighty, after all :)
I'm no expert but I seem to remember someone saying tyres are only 10% less sticky in the wet... :?:
I think that may have been 10% sticky in the wet :lol:.
Anyway it's not quite that simple as there are many factors that determine a tyres adhesion to the road in the wet, not just the water.
.
I'm no expert but I seem to remember someone saying tyres are only 10% less sticky in the wet... :?:
I think that may have been 10% sticky in the wet :lol:.
Anyway it's not quite that simple as there are many factors that determine a tyres adhesion to the road in the wet, not just the water.
.
No way! :? I'm pretty sure it was our instructors on our DAS that told us this because I was never that worried about wet riding as a result... Now I'm going to have to do some research... :roll:
:lol:
Ceri JC
19-08-05, 01:20 PM
I'm no expert but I seem to remember someone saying tyres are only 10% less sticky in the wet... :?:
I think that may have been 10% sticky in the wet :lol:.
Anyway it's not quite that simple as there are many factors that determine a tyres adhesion to the road in the wet, not just the water.
.
No way! :? I'm pretty sure it was our instructors on our DAS that told us this because I was never that worried about wet riding as a result... Now I'm going to have to do some research... :roll:
:lol:
Imagine you have a pair of race slicks on. There's no way they're 90% effective in the wet... The shape and depth of the tyre tread's to displace water are just two other factors that can affect it. Bear in mind you're probably not using 100% of the grip in the dry, hence you may well be able to get away with using 90% of what you use in the dry, in the wet. :)
I'm no expert but I seem to remember someone saying tyres are only 10% less sticky in the wet... :?:
I think that may have been 10% sticky in the wet :lol:.
Anyway it's not quite that simple as there are many factors that determine a tyres adhesion to the road in the wet, not just the water.
.
No way! :? I'm pretty sure it was our instructors on our DAS that told us this because I was never that worried about wet riding as a result... Now I'm going to have to do some research... :roll:
:lol:
Imagine you have a pair of race slicks on. There's no way they're 90% effective in the wet... The shape and depth of the tyre tread's to displace water are just two other factors that can affect it. Bear in mind you're probably not using 100% of the grip in the dry, hence you may well be able to get away with using 90% of what you use in the dry, in the wet. :)
**chugchugchugchugWHIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!** COMPUTING.... **chugchugchugchugWHIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!**
:lol:
Heard an interesting and profound point recently regarding grip on wet roads.
"You probably have about as much grip in the wet as you think you have in the dry"
(suggesting that in the dry you have more than you think) :D
It's without a doubt that on a good dry road surface there is more grip than most people realise. However in the wet it really is a different matter. If there were only 10% difference why would you need almost double the stopping distance?
For my part I feel that it's between 20-50% dependant on things like road surface, angle of lean, crap on road (small spots of oil/diesel etc). Things like manhole covers offer less than 10% grip no question when it's wet. So it's not a constant value.
As for manufacturers giving out percentages and angles of lean etc, it's all crappola as this is based on test track conditions using professional riders - the real world scenario is a different matter.
Trust uncle jonboy, take it easy in the wet or you'll come off :wink: .
.
I'm pretty new to the SV and can tell you to be very careful in the wet! The SV pulls quite a lot of torque (a hell of a lot more than a 125 and a lot more than my old CBR400) and the other morning on my way to work the road was a little wet and i opened the throttle after just exiting a roundabout, spinning the back tyre. :shock:
Lucky for me I was in a straight line, but if you can do that in a straight line, you want to be nice and ginger with the throttle on those corners in the wet!! :lol:
In my opinion, smoothness is the key in the wet. Smooth accelerating, braking and smoth lines though the corners.
chazzyb
19-08-05, 02:11 PM
I think that may have been 10% sticky in the wet :lol:.
.
Is that sticky as in blanket?
SVeeedy Gonzales
19-08-05, 02:12 PM
Tyres may be less sticky, but the metal drain covers, overbanding and road paint are much less grippy. Plus the oil and diesel that gets dumped on the roads on a daily basis all comes to the surface when it's the first rain in a long while. That'll be today then... I know people who won't ride the first day it rains, though will ride on the days after that if it's still raining, just cos they don't like the slippery stuff, which gets mostly washed away after the first day.
You're not daft to worry about it, anyone who doesn't ride in the wet and have raised concern for the grip on our poor quailty UK roads isn't very wise. Main thing as said above is to stay smooth. If you can avoid drain covers, etc. then great, plan ahead and do it, but it doesn't matter if you do hit them, so long as you don't do anything sudden. The back may slide out, you may feel the whole bike go a little, but so long as you stay smooth and let it go until you're past the problem area, you'll be fine. And enjoy - it definitely makes you a better rider :D
Just remember if you feel the back slide out, its usually only moved a short way, even though it feels like you could almost see it as it swings round!!! :lol:
im pretty handy at riding in the wet (if i dont sayso myself)
the main issue which limits people in the wet- their confidence, they tense up and become nervous which isnt as good, it gives the bike less stability as you are more jerky with the throttle and brakes.
my IAM trainer said to hang off the bike when cornering but keep the bike pretty upright - this presses your tyres harder into the corner.
treat the throttle like (sorry - cant say that, U-rated site and all) basically keep it smooth, relaxed and sensual.
most importantly what i havent read above yet. .. LOOK UP, physically lift your chin and look down the road, not at the road,
this will enable you to plan further and anticipate hazards. for example - you can see that the car infront is braking a way in the distance, instead of waiting til your right behind him and slamming the anchors on, just gently roll off the throttle so you havent gotta use the brakes.
cornering in the wet, you should be slowly winding on the throttle throughtout the whole corner, start winding it on just before you tip the bike in. . . you will feel alot more stable as you go round that bend.
hope this helps.
Spiderman
19-08-05, 04:08 PM
My 2p worth.
I find i always lock the rear when braking in the wet. maybe an adjustment of your braking balance for wet riding is a good idea if, like some on this site, you are more inclined to go with 70%rear and 30%front in the dry.
However i would also advise that you make the change (and practice) in the dry till you have the braking more at 70%front and 30%rear. Changing the manner in which you normally apply your brakes can be a bit hairy the first time you try doing something "diffrent" from your normal way.
Personaly i always do the 70f & 30r so its been a little easier for me to just stay off the back brake altogether in the wet.
hth
if, like some on this site, you are more inclined to go with 70%rear and 30%front in the dry.
I think those people, whoever they are, need more training.
As for leaning in the wet, I'd recommend not even thinking about it. Do what feels safe. Trying to increase the anglge will only lead to a spill. It takes a while to get used to it, don't try and speed it up.
I think those people, whoever they are, need more training.
I must need more training then :lol: as I'm a renowned rear braker - maybe that's why I'm so slow ;).
.
In addition to all the bike-riding techniques... don't forget to wear appropriate clothing. There's nothing more miserable (and distracting - so therefore dangerous) than having cold soggy hands / legs / bottom etc.
Cover-up (and wrap-up in winter) so you're dry and toasty - and you'll have fun!
mysteryjimbo
19-08-05, 04:42 PM
Whoops double post :lol:
mysteryjimbo
19-08-05, 04:42 PM
My 2p worth.
I find i always lock the rear when braking in the wet. maybe an adjustment of your braking balance for wet riding is a good idea if, like some on this site, you are more inclined to go with 70%rear and 30%front in the dry.
However i would also advise that you make the change (and practice) in the dry till you have the braking more at 70%front and 30%rear. Changing the manner in which you normally apply your brakes can be a bit hairy the first time you try doing something "diffrent" from your normal way.
Personaly i always do the 70f & 30r so its been a little easier for me to just stay off the back brake altogether in the wet.
hth
IMO you arent braking hard enough if you can use your rear brake. If you were your rear would be in the air! :wink:
Use more "even" braking in the wet, say 50.50. I can say this with confidence and 365 days a year riding. So, to date around 1500 days.
According to the DAS instructors its supposed to be 70/30 in the dry and 50/50 in the wet on the brakes, or thats what my ones said anyway.
I've found that smoothly does it seems to do the job. You are aware of the hazards already and if you can't avoid a manhole cover then its not the end of the world if you have to go over it.
One thing I have noticed is that when I come to a stop and put my foot down, quite often the ground is so slippery that my foot skids, easily sorted by again, being smooth and relaxed and not just stomping the foot down.
According to the DAS instructors its supposed to be 70/30 in the dry and 50/50 in the wet on the brakes, or thats what my ones said anyway.
surely it will be different for every bike. all depends on how the bike is set up.
someone correct me.
Cheers for all the tips, rode much more confidently on the way home, going as fast as the cars on the roads round most corners now, which is the main thing (I'm not mad on being rear-ended). Its a matter of developing a trust for your tyres I guess.
Changed my mind on the rain on visor problem though, that got more of a hassle when it got dark too. Maybe need to stitch a chammy into palm of left hand glove....
Mr Toad
22-08-05, 04:09 PM
Trust uncle jonboy, take it easy in the wet or you'll come off :wink: .
.
Where was this advice when I needed it :lol:
Muttley
22-08-05, 04:23 PM
According to the DAS instructors its supposed to be 70/30 in the dry
Is that 70 front or 70 rear?
I was always told (and taught) to use (in the dry) 70 f / 30 r, as you have so much more braking power / grip through the front brake / tyre when braking.
If the rear was meant as your primary source of slowing down then surely the front disks would be smaller and larger at the rear.
I try not to touch the rear brake in wet (unless I'm doing a slow manouvere) until I have done most of my braking, as it is so much easier to lock up.
I'm no expert but I seem to remember someone saying tyres are only 10% less sticky in the wet... :?:
I think that may have been 10% sticky in the wet :lol:.
Anyway it's not quite that simple as there are many factors that determine a tyres adhesion to the road in the wet, not just the water.
.
No way! :? I'm pretty sure it was our instructors on our DAS that told us this because I was never that worried about wet riding as a result... Now I'm going to have to do some research... :roll:
:lol:
Imagine you have a pair of race slicks on. There's no way they're 90% effective in the wet... The shape and depth of the tyre tread's to displace water are just two other factors that can affect it. Bear in mind you're probably not using 100% of the grip in the dry, hence you may well be able to get away with using 90% of what you use in the dry, in the wet. :)
you can't compare race slicks to street tires, they don't use tham in the rain, they use racing rains with deep treads
I have found no limitation of tires in the rain, limiting factor is visibility thru helmet shield
dont knoqw why but i like riding in rain its fun but then there is nothing like riding on a nice sunny day :D, and yes man hole covers suck and are always on the corners its like they want to kill us :cry:
yes muttley,,but if u lose the back its saveable ,,lose the front and ure pretty much ****ed,,,i use mostly back but only when its wet ,when its dry its front a lot and not a lot of back ..when im riding S L O W ive almost got the back on a wee bit constantly :wink:
ive saved the front after ive lost it many times
all being in a straight line tho
According to the DAS instructors its supposed to be 70/30 in the dry
Is that 70 front or 70 rear?
I was always told (and taught) to use (in the dry) 70 f / 30 r, as you have so much more braking power / grip through the front brake / tyre when braking.
If the rear was meant as your primary source of slowing down then surely the front disks would be smaller and larger at the rear.
I try not to touch the rear brake in wet (unless I'm doing a slow manouvere) until I have done most of my braking, as it is so much easier to lock up.
Ok, to clarify, 70% on the front and 30% on the back in the dry and 50/50% in the wet. I've never known someone to refer to backbrake first :? anyhoo.
According to the DAS instructors I had, you should use the back brake more in the wet. I know from personal experience, you lose the front you are ****ed, you lose the back you've got more chance of recovering it.
Ok, to clarify, 70% on the front and 30% on the back in the dry and 50/50% in the wet. I've never known someone to refer to backbrake first :? anyhoo.
According to the DAS instructors I had, you should use the back brake more in the wet. I know from personal experience, you lose the front you are f*cked, you lose the back you've got more chance of recovering it.
:lol: yeah, cuz if you do 30/70 in the dry you leave a really kewl black line down the road behind you to amuse the other bikers.... :oops:
:lol:
I have found no limitation of tires in the rain, limiting factor is visibility thru helmet shield
I don't understand your comment. Are you saying that tyres in the wet have precisely the same amount of grip and lean angle as in the dry? And that because there're rain droplets on your visor you can't see as far?
:?:
.
I have found no limitation of tires in the rain, limiting factor is visibility thru helmet shield
I don't understand your comment. Are you saying that tyres in the wet have precisely the same amount of grip and lean angle as in the dry? And that because there're rain droplets on your visor you can't see as far?
:?:
.
FREEZE!!!.... Put....... the thread........... down......
:lol:
;)
Ceri JC
23-08-05, 02:35 PM
you can't compare race slicks to street tires, they don't use tham in the rain, they use racing rains with deep treads
I have found no limitation of tires in the rain, limiting factor is visibility thru helmet shield
Precisely the point I was making: Wet racing tyres keep a higher percentage of their grip in the wet, than slicks do (hence the reason they use them). Although not as drastic a difference, various sorts of road tyres have differing tread patterns, meaning some are better in the wet (as well as the various compounds used, PSI of tyre, etc.). I was using it as an example of one of the many factors that determine grip in the wet and why any set percentage of grip for all tyres, bikes, riders, etc. is at best innaccurate (there are too many variables).
northwind
23-08-05, 06:29 PM
In the rain, Northwind recommends cowardice over overconfidence :) By good luck i've not done vey much wet weather riding this year- well, I missed the end of winter and most of spring, so no wonder- and I've noticed I'm much, much less good in the rain now than I was this time last year- even though I would say I'm considerably better in the dry.
In the rain, Northwind recommends cowardice over overconfidence
Sound advice.
.
Peter Henry
24-08-05, 09:06 AM
Rain riding?
Pull over,remove bike cover from under seat/back pack and cover bike. Fit any security device that you normally use and hitch a ride home!
I absolutely hate rain riding...not for me anymore!
Self confessed wimp on that front! :oops:
Yes... it must be a big issue where you are ;).
.
Ceri JC
24-08-05, 12:03 PM
"Weather is not a factor in 98% of motorcycle accidents."
From: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html
Food for thought, eh?
argatxa
24-08-05, 01:10 PM
I try not to touch the rear brake in wet
:-k
I think that that makes it more dangerous!!! On dry I use mostly strong front brake combined with engine brake. On wet, I am smoooooooooooooth as I can with the front, using rear brake as first choice and front as end backing.
I know from personal experience, you lose the front you are f*cked, you lose the back you've got more chance of recovering it.
I agree.... and first of all, we should not be on a speed on which we can not stop safely in a clear path (is amazing how this thought get lost on dry!!)
there goes my penny...
You're not from round here are you? :lol:
Nice to meet you at Soho last Friday ;)
.
northwind
24-08-05, 01:15 PM
"Weather is not a factor in 98% of motorcycle accidents."
Ah, statistics. Remember that a huge number of bikers- especially less experienced ones- just don't ride in the rain unless they get caught out- weekend warriors, etc. And these tend to be the one that crash the most.
Then remember that the huge majority of bikers don't go for recreational rides in the wet, and you're far more likely to crash in a hundred miles of recreational riding than in a hundred miles of commuting.
Then, bear in mind that even in this god-benighted hellhole, there's more dry days than wet for most of the year, especially for most of the summer (and again, you get that weekend warrior effect, with what is it, 1/3 of all bikes never leaving the garage in winter)
Then, bear in mind also that most bikers ride very cautiously in the wet.
All in all, lots of reasons for that to be the case, and most don't imply that riding in the wet is safer than you'd think
Ceri JC
24-08-05, 01:58 PM
Ah, statistics. Remember that a huge number of bikers- especially less experienced ones- just don't ride in the rain unless they get caught out- weekend warriors, etc. And these tend to be the one that crash the most.
A fair point. There's also the factor that people who regularly ride in the wet tend to develop smoother throttle control etc. as a neccessity, which makes them smoother and safer riders all round.
Then remember that the huge majority of bikers don't go for recreational rides in the wet, and you're far more likely to crash in a hundred miles of recreational riding than in a hundred miles of commuting.
I'm not so sure I agree with this. Okay, during recreational rides you tend to be going at higher speeds, trying to get your knee down/drag the pegs, etc. However: When commuting you're typically in a more urban setting (so more lights, roundabouts, spilt diesel, pedestrians, cyclists), at a busier time of day, more cagers to pull out in front of you etc. you're also more likely to be riding in rain (I agree you may not go for a recreation ride in the wet, but you'd probably still go to work) , you're also more likely to be rushing, as you have to get somewhere by a particular time.
Have you got any stats/reports to back up the point that recreational riding is more dangerous than commuting?
northwind
24-08-05, 02:06 PM
Not to hand, no... It's quite a commonly reported "fact" though :) IIRC, you're something like 10 times more likely to have an own-fault accident on a group ride than riding solo, for example. I'll see if I can find some actual numbers for you.
Ceri JC
24-08-05, 02:31 PM
Not to hand, no... It's quite a commonly reported "fact" though :) IIRC, you're something like 10 times more likely to have an own-fault accident on a group ride than riding solo, for example. I'll see if I can find some actual numbers for you.
I agree re: rideouts being more dangerous. Everyone (myself included :oops: ) seem to lapse into 'flock mode' from time to time and just follows the person in front blindly :)
I have found no limitation of tires in the rain, limiting factor is visibility thru helmet shield
I don't understand your comment. Are you saying that tyres in the wet have precisely the same amount of grip and lean angle as in the dry? And that because there're rain droplets on your visor you can't see as far?
:?:
.
what I am saying is that in the rain, you out ride your vision long before you get to the limits of your tires, yes, cause of rain dropplets, fogging, whatever, you can't see as far or as good, if you can see the painted lines, manhole covers etc, its very easy to avoid them
Professor
24-08-05, 04:44 PM
what I am saying is that in the rain, you out ride your vision long before you get to the limits of your tires, yes, cause of rain dropplets, fogging, whatever, you can't see as far or as good, if you can see the painted lines, manhole covers etc, its very easy to avoid them
Agree. That's why I am currently trying out contact lenses (free trial
from Specsavers). Vision is surely the main restricting factor in bad
weather conditions.
argatxa
24-08-05, 05:04 PM
One of the reasons for changing for contact lenses was the sudden fog that appears when you stop at the trafic lights on a cold or rainy day! :?
Another tip for driving on wet, on torrential rain and when going on moderate speed, is to follow the "dry" tracks left by the car/van/truck in front so you have a little bit of extra grip when braking.... rather than making your tyres do all the work evacuating the water.
what I am saying is that in the rain, you out ride your vision long before you get to the limits of your tires
I think that's a crazy statement.
.
what I am saying is that in the rain, you out ride your vision long before you get to the limits of your tires
I think that's a crazy statement.
.
? tires have plenty of traction to scrape a peg or get you knee down on a wet road if your smooth and you can see your line, you sound like a weenie in the wet
SVeeedy Gonzales
24-08-05, 06:50 PM
what I am saying is that in the rain, you out ride your vision long before you get to the limits of your tires, yes, cause of rain dropplets, fogging, whatever, you can't see as far or as good, if you can see the painted lines, manhole covers etc, its very easy to avoid them
Agree. That's why I am currently trying out contact lenses (free trial
from Specsavers). Vision is surely the main restricting factor in bad
weather conditions.
Yep, if you wear glasses then contact lenses are one of the best performance mods you can make... I tried glasses early on but it was so awful compared to contacts, it's just not worth the hassle. Hope you get on with them!
argatxa
24-08-05, 07:15 PM
what I am saying is that in the rain, you out ride your vision long before you get to the limits of your tires
I think that's a crazy statement.
.
? tires have plenty of traction to scrape a peg or get you knee down on a wet road if your smooth and you can see your line, you sound like a weenie in the wet
wowwww =;
monsieurs, now walk 20 steps away, turn around and shoot when ready.... :)
Depends on the day.... on a amazonic rain, yes... the lack of sight is going to play a major factor on eating anything on the road (pot holes blablabla), but on days of light rain like today in london, tyre grip is more the factor. You see miles but on a hard brake you go down....
By the way, on my way home I experimented a little bit with locking rear wheel... and by far, I prefer rear wheel block rather than front !!! With a scooter, if you block and slip your front tyre you can keep the hairdrier up with your feet while sliding forward, with the SV I doubt so... too heavy!!! :P
tires have plenty of traction to scrape a peg
Not on UK tarmac, and I find it hard to believe US tarmac is that much different.
sound like a weenie in the wet
Nope, I know the limitations of my tyres in the wet. Water acts like a lubricant and when you lean that far in the wet, the tyre will slide - and you'll be following your bike down the road.
.
Carsick
24-08-05, 07:55 PM
tires have plenty of traction to scrape a peg
Not on UK tarmac, and I find it hard to believe US tarmac is that much different.
sound like a weenie in the wet
Nope, I know the limitations of my tyres in the wet. Water acts like a lubricant and when you lean that far in the wet, the tyre will slide - and you'll be following your bike down the road.
.
I agree with you that alot of grip is lost in the wet, but I personally have had a peg touch the ground at 60mph while in wet conditions. I didn't do it deliberately, I just cocked up, but there is alot more traction there, than you think.
Oh, and this was when I was running Road Attacks.
hmmm should read all 4 pages but having just ridden home in weather thats reminiscent of what I rode home in back in December I would like to say [apologies if been said]:
1. Slow down, ride at a pace thats comfortable for you, dont be bullied into going faster than youre comfortable in in those conditions. Youve only got 2 tyres, and youre the one that will get more hurt than the muppets in the cages.
2. Let everyone else go past if necessary. The aim is to get home, not to the morgue. In bad weather, slow constant safe speed according to your visibility/road conditions will be quicker and less scary than hacking it too fast outside your comfort zone.
3. Be prepared for muppets tail gating :evil: Dab the brake lever without putting the brake on to warn them. Bear in mind mirrors can make people look closer than they are sometimes especially in really bad weather. Consider moving over a little for them to see your behind another car so they have nowhere to go.
4. Keep it smooth, for acceleration/deceleration, gear changes and braking.
5. Think about what youre doing that little bit harder. Plan your riding to NOT have to use the brakes if possible, use the engine braking to do it smoothly as in 4.
6. If you get wet, tired and cold, consider stopping at a garage and resting. The temptation is to keep going but thats dangerous. Rest, recover from the concentration, dry out a bit [loo hand dryers are good for that a little :wink: :lol: :lol: ], have a warm drink before carrying on a long journey.
7. Be prepared - have dry clothes in office. Also have another set of bike gear - in this level of rain gloves/boots wont dry out overnight.
Oh, Have a long hot bath when home and a hot drink. Works a treat. :D
nuntius
24-08-05, 10:28 PM
I did my test in torrential rain. The examiner wanted to cancel but I was desperate to get it done. When I got to the end of it I literally had water pouring out the top of my boots whenever I put my feet down. And he was easier on me because it's harder to ride in the rain.
All I'll say is take a totally different attitude to pulling off. When filtering, go behind the first car rather than infront of it. Keep the acceleration as you pull of really low to avoid the back wheel spinning away.
it's not rocket science. Riding in the wet is slippery compared to riding in the dry. Sure, you can still lean quite far on a good surfaced road in the wet but obn the whole you need to take it easy. I especially take it easy on roundabouts as they are notorious for being covered in diesel spills etc plus always have loads of grit and pebbles in the braking areas, especially after heavy rain. I'd rather be a bit slow than a bit down the road so I take it easy in the wet. It's weird that on a bad road surface in the wet you just seem to know your tyre ain't gonna stick and slow down whereas on a good surface it is simply not a problem and you KNOW it.
21QUEST
24-08-05, 10:53 PM
tires have plenty of traction to scrape a peg
Not on UK tarmac, and I find it hard to believe US tarmac is that much different.
sound like a weenie in the wet
Nope, I know the limitations of my tyres in the wet. Water acts like a lubricant and when you lean that far in the wet, the tyre will slide - and you'll be following your bike down the road.
.
I agree with you that alot of grip is lost in the wet, but I personally have had a peg touch the ground at 60mph while in wet conditions. I didn't do it deliberately, I just cocked up, but there is alot more traction there, than you think.
Oh, and this was when I was running Road Attacks.
+ one on that. Infact I like riding in the wet. There is just something about having to be smoother with the controls etc that give s me some sort of buzz :shock: :wink: . A lot of people just do not realise the amount of grip available to them in the wet. Braking wise I'd say most of my braking is still done with the front brakes. You have just got to be alot smoother.
ps: still crap in the dry though :wink:
and Jonboy , stop being a weenie
Cheers
Ben
+ one on that. Infact I like riding in the wet. There is just something about having to be smoother with the controls etc that give s me some sort of buzz :shock: :wink: . A lot of people just do not realise the amount of grip available to them in the wet. Braking wise I'd say most of my braking is still done with the front brakes. You have just got to be alot smoother.
ps: still crap in the dry though :wink:
and Jonboy , stop being a weenie
Cheers
Ben
Right, now come ride on the concrete parts of the M20 [most of Ashford to London bit except Maidstone cos its posh and gets the tarmac]. Then tell me in torrential rain that Ive got more grip than I think I have :shock: :P :lol: :lol:
I didnt mind riding in the wet. But I bloody object to it when its AUGUST. Not to mention the bouts of thick fog :? :( :evil:
21QUEST
25-08-05, 12:07 AM
+ one on that. Infact I like riding in the wet. There is just something about having to be smoother with the controls etc that give s me some sort of buzz :shock: :wink: . A lot of people just do not realise the amount of grip available to them in the wet. Braking wise I'd say most of my braking is still done with the front brakes. You have just got to be alot smoother.
ps: still crap in the dry though :wink:
and Jonboy , stop being a weenie
Cheers
Ben
Right, now come ride on the concrete parts of the M20 [most of Ashford to London bit except Maidstone cos its posh and gets the tarmac]. Then tell me in torrential rain that Ive got more grip than I think I have :shock: :P :lol: :lol:
I didnt mind riding in the wet. But I bloody object to it when its AUGUST. Not to mention the bouts of thick fog :? :( :evil:
Trust me :shock: especially in torrential you have got pleanty of grip. All the oil/washed off is you see leaving you with nice grippy tarmac :) :wink: .
Now repeat after me Smoothly does it , Smoothly does it'
There you go your fear of riding in the rain is gone :lol: .
No ... :( Okay you have got a rain cheque for some free wet weather lessons :lol:
I guess to me it's a bit like rocking with the devil :-k :lol:
Cheers
Ben
theres more grip on wet pavement than cold (below freezing) dry pavement, the only conditions that make me nervious is snow & ice
Trust me :shock: especially in torrential you have got pleanty of grip. All the oil/washed off is you see leaving you with nice grippy tarmac :) :wink: .
Now repeat after me Smoothly does it , Smoothly does it'
There you go your fear of riding in the rain is gone :lol: .
No ... :( Okay you have got a rain cheque for some free wet weather lessons :lol:
I guess to me it's a bit like rocking with the devil :-k :lol:
Cheers
Ben
But I said I dont mind riding in the rain. :P :lol: :lol: Its just a concrete, slippy surface Im not prepared to go sliding again to test your theory Ive got more grip than I think. Er also the fact that it wasnt washing off oil/diesel but congregating into puddles. Sorry I just have a mental block of so much water that the spray coming up is causing visibility problems + concrete + puddles + diesel/oil on the road just = Trouble :D
And its the other muppets out there with me that bothers me. Or the fact that the M20 concrete section isnt exactly grippy in the dry either. :?
But Fog is now ranking as my most disliked weather up there on a par with blizzards. :? :) [btw Im not what you call a fair weather biker :P :lol: ]
Sid Squid
25-08-05, 07:14 AM
Now repeat after me: Smoothly does it , Smoothly does it.
He's right you know.
I get a certain pleasure from riding in the rain, there is still loads of grip and all you need to do is allow your bike to work properly, which it won't do, (wet or dry for that matter), if you're snatching at the controls and robbing yourself of all the traction that's available.
Smooooth is the key. Which means relaxing and not making small erratic control movements by being tense.
PS. If you can't relax in the dry you'll never do it in the wet. Chill, enjoy the ride.
Carsick
25-08-05, 09:28 AM
Its just a concrete, slippy surface
It's a fair point. Concrete is known to get particularly slippy in the wet cos water stays on it too well. The roadcraft manual even makes a point of mentioning it.
Peter Henry
25-08-05, 04:58 PM
Northwind wrote:
experienced ones- just don't ride in the rain unless they get caught out-
I say I resemble that remark! :lol: :lol: 8)
Muttley
25-08-05, 08:07 PM
Ok, to clarify, 70% on the front and 30% on the back in the dry and 50/50% in the wet. I've never known someone to refer to backbrake first :? anyhoo.
Going by the way some people post on internet forums it 70/30 could be meant either way.
Its just a concrete, slippy surface
It's a fair point. Concrete is known to get particularly slippy in the wet cos water stays on it too well. The roadcraft manual even makes a point of mentioning it.
can guarantee the majority of accident black spots on the M20 in winter are on the concrete sections rather than the tarmacked bits. :roll: :? :(
thats seriously the problem with the M20 in heavy rain. The water doesnt shift anywhere and stays on the road. No matter how smooth I am with the controls it just is not a nice surface to be on with that much water.
And Id go down the A20 if it werent for the fact that road floods in places. :? :(
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