"Vision Zero" Threat to biking or MCN scaremongeri

[creamerybutter]

In today’s MCN there is an article about "Vision Zero" a transport policy being adopted by Sweden (some details on Vision Zero here (http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/papers/visionzero.html)) where the goal is to reduce road deaths and injuries to zero by 2020.
The author Claes Tingvall said on TV "There is no room for motorcycles in Vision Zero. We must prevent the recruiting of new motorcyclists. Thinking long-term I regret to say motorcyclists must go" and apparently there may be pressure on the Government to adopt Vision Zero here as it will considered as international best practice although they will apparently gauge public opinion first.

What do you think real threat or like I said MCN scaremongering?

One thing I am puzzled about is motorcycles aren't the only vehicles on the road that are involved in fatal accidents and reducing fatal accidents to zero is imo not really possible.

I haven’t read the full details of the paper yet (I’m doing that now), I just wonder how this could work.

[Akula]

lets ban cars, bikes, bicycles, planes, trains ohhh and walking then hopefully it will keep casualty's don to a minimum.

What a load of horsecarp, itll never work.

**Edit** didnt read it all as im too tired, but got the general gist.

[Grinch]

Vison 0 is only possible will a fully intergrated, computer controlled, reilable transport system. Something I don't see them getting sorted till 2100 at the earliest..... And then your probably still get deaths due to vandalisem and terorists.
Its just a thing to try to sell papers.. plus how they going to stop me riding my bike when I'm 45. I'll park outside number 10 with all the other bikers if they do, after all by that time I've turned into a even more contankerous *******

[fizzwheel]

MCN Scare mongering probably

They dont half print some rubbish

[Scoobs]

I've turned into a even more cotanterous b*stard

Is that possible?

[Grinch]

I've turned into a even more contankerous b*stard

Is that possible?

very... the formula is C=A/B*D
where C is who contankerous I am
A is my age
B is number of running bikes
D is number of dependants
So I'm 30/1*1=30
By the time I'm 45 I expect to be 45/1*2=90

[jonboy]

WTF is Contanterous?


.

[Carsick]

By the time I'm 45 I expect to be 45/1*2=90
'cough' 22.5 'cough'

[Viney]

It isnt scarremongering. It truly is Sweedens plan. A bloke who works here is sweedish and its been spoke about for years. The fact that thier vehicle toll over there is something like 15% of ours, and thier biking population is in its thousands, then it may just work over there. However, over here there are over a million motorcylists/scooter riders in this country alone, so, it would be very interesting.

I agree with grinch, but i reckon that it will be more like twenty to ten, than nine o'clock ;)

[Viney]

By the time I'm 45 I expect to be 45/1*2=90
'cough' 22.5 'cough'

No 90

45/(1x2) should have been the equasion

[Grinch]

WTF is Contanterous?


.

Auh humm.. er... corrected... :roll:

[Grinch]

By the time I'm 45 I expect to be 45/1*2=90
'cough' 22.5 'cough'

No 90

45/(1x2) should have been the equasion

really whys that?

[Jelster]

MCN is full of dramatic crap, in fact it's even more of a drama queen than most of the people on here :lol:

.

[zx6man]

Or even (45/1) * 2 = 90

[Carsick]

By the time I'm 45 I expect to be 45/1*2=90
'cough' 22.5 'cough'

No 90

45/(1x2) should have been the equasion
'shrugs' depends how you view it. Multiplication and division have the same precedence so while it's written down on one line you're right. I always make the assumption that division is written as
45
__ which is the same as 45/(1*2)
1*2

in which case the precedence becomes more obvious.

Sod it.

[Grinch]

Or even (45/1) * 2 = 90

I think it should be this one...

[zx6man]

Cool..do I get a prize?

[Carsick]

Or even (45/1) * 2 = 90

I think it should be this one...
I agree.
Age makes you more cantankerous, but bikes reduce that, then dependents make you worse again.

[Diveboy]

Hold on, hold on. Why are you all complaining? If you ride a motorbike they are Sooooo dangerous you will all be 6 feet under by 2020 :lol: :shock:

So I could sit at home with a Cigarette but if I got my contraband Bike out the garage I would be arrested for endangering my own life? Sound bloody Double Dutch not Swedish :roll:

[Ceri JC]

If bikes were banned from the road, I'd keep a track bike (presumably that won't be banned) and go out for blasts on the road from time to time on that. I'd just accept that you'd have to try to outrun any police you came across.

Of course, a lot of other people would do the same and it'd be sooooo much safer than the current situation. :roll: :lol:

[Viney]

By the time I'm 45 I expect to be 45/1*2=90
'cough' 22.5 'cough'

No 90

45/(1x2) should have been the equasion
'shrugs' depends how you view it. Multiplication and division have the same precedence so while it's written down on one line you're right. I always make the assumption that division is written as
45
__ which is the same as 45/(1*2)
1*2

in which case the precedence becomes more obvious.

Sod it.

Dont play with me...i watched Jonny Ball's think of a number when i was a kid ok!!! ;) :P :lol:

[jonboy]

I think that ultimately bikes will indeed be taken off the road but I reckon the time span is more likely 30-40 years than twenty. And if it does happen, well I'm quite sure that bikes will still be allowed on tracks so I'll simply get a trailer and no longer have to worry about diesel, oncoming traffic and chavs. That is if I'm still into bikes in twenty years time (as I'll be ** years old) or even still here on planet Earth.

Accept the things you can't change etc, and if this is one of them then I'll have to grudgingly accept it (though I might decide to fight very hard first :twisted: ).

Anyway, let's not get too vexed about something that is way in the future and far from certain. Just get on your bike and ride it while you've got the chance ;).



.

[tomjones2]

If bikes were banned from the road, I'd keep a track bike (presumably that won't be banned) and go out for blasts on the road from time to time on that. I'd just accept that you'd have to try to outrun any police you came across.

Of course, a lot of other people would do the same and it'd be sooooo much safer than the current situation. :roll: :lol:


although i am not a blatened law breaker i would have to agree with you as many goverments have found out prohibtion on anything never works and normally results in a increase in dangers of that activity in the first place

[Scoobs]

After giving this subject some thought I have come to the conclusion that it is a:

CROCK OF ****!

[Carsick]

After giving this subject some thought I have come to the conclusion that it is a:

CROCK OF sh*t!
Good point and well made.

[Patch]

OK for those that think it is just MCN scare-mongering here's some links, form your own opinions by reading the source

http://www.rmd.dft.gov.uk/project.asp?intProjectID=11730

http://www.sei.se/visionzero/moreinfo.htm

http://www.vagverket.se/filer/2586/nollvisionen_eng.pdf

I like this one - http://www.streetbiker-mag.com/sb0129/oseas.html

[Ceri JC]

http://www.vagverket.se/filer/2586/nollvisionen_eng.pdf


I particularly dislike the last page of that one. The idea of "shared responsibility" is ludicrious. Why should I be responsible for the dolt who consiously runs red lights, undertakes on the hard shoulder, doesn't check his mirrors/blindspot before overtaking, etc.? It's nothing to do with me at all.

This idea of moving towards humanity being a single entity would be great, if so many people weren't completely stupid.

[Ceri JC]

Next we will have Vision Zero in the home. Knives will be banned so as to avoid injuries in the kitchen. Stairs will be removed and houses will only be able to have a ground floor so people can't fall down them. Sports will be banned so that there are no sports injuries. Etc. Etc.

What a complete load of rubbish.

Sickeningly, your joke about banning knives isn't far off. They want to ban pointed chefs knives on the grounds that the sharp tip serves no purpose to chefs, but makes it a more deadly weapon. They consulted with 'top chefs' to come to the conclusion that the tip serves no purpose to chefs. Obviously top chefs who have the luxury of expensive and fresh ingrediants never have to open thick plastic, vaccum sealed packs of meat (the only easy way I've found do this is to stab it with the pointed end of a pair of scissors or chefs knife :roll: ).

What's next after that, let's aim to prevent people of dying of old age by hooking everyone up to life support machines in staffed wards, the day they turn 65.

Life is fatal, get over it.

[Grinch]

Next we will have Vision Zero in the home. Knives will be banned so as to avoid injuries in the kitchen. Stairs will be removed and houses will only be able to have a ground floor so people can't fall down them. Sports will be banned so that there are no sports injuries. Etc. Etc.

What a complete load of rubbish.

Sickeningly, your joke about banning knives isn't far off. They want to ban pointed chefs knives on the grounds that the sharp tip serves no purpose to chefs, but makes it a more deadly weapon. They consulted with 'top chefs' to come to the conclusion that the tip serves no purpose to chefs. Obviously top chefs who have the luxury of expensive and fresh ingrediants never have to open thick plastic, vaccum sealed packs of meat (the only easy way I've found do this is to stab it with the pointed end of a pair of scissors or chefs knife :roll: ).

What's next after that, let's aim to prevent people of dying of old age by hooking everyone up to life support machines in staffed wards, the day they turn 65.

Life is fatal, get over it.

then you just buy a grinder and and make your own point.

[Ceri JC]

then you just buy a grinder and and make your own point.

You think they'll let us have access to tools in this "Perfect Safe World (TM)"?! :shock: :lol:

[lynw]

By the time I'm 45 I expect to be 45/1*2=90
'cough' 22.5 'cough'

No 90

45/(1x2) should have been the equasion
'shrugs' depends how you view it. Multiplication and division have the same precedence so while it's written down on one line you're right. I always make the assumption that division is written as
45
__ which is the same as 45/(1*2)
1*2

in which case the precedence becomes more obvious.

Sod it.

Really? so how come I learnt it as BODMAS or PEMDAS then??

And More Crap News is getting worse. The last Biking to be banned headline related to them changing how you get your licence. Making you get more experience before you get on bigger bikes. Hardly banning biking but didnt stop them with that headline.

Revenues dropping so hey, lets get people to buy our rag. How? hmmm most have illegal cans so lets regurgitate the crap about some muppets isolated attempt at getting a bill to reduce the noise level to 74 db. I read somewhere wheelie bins on bin carts get up to 86 db's.

So then faced with what do we print now, ah the old nugget of biking to be banned cos the government want to make it harder to get your licence.

FFS. The Beano has more accurate news in it than MCN these days. :roll: :lol:

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

oh yes, sweden... with their great ideas on smoking... banning smoking almost everywhere but embracing those horrid cancer causing teabag things that give you mouth cancers, just cos they can use them discreetly :roll: then they don't wonder why they're illegal in most other countries...

This bike thing seems to have been thought up by the same group of mentalists - targeting one specific thing instead of looking at the real problem. Bureaucrats love it, it's the same twisted logic that drives the scamera system... but they can't actually stop it as they're too gutless, so their only option is to make it less attractive...

But our government have been doing that for years with their massive underfunding of roads, ignorance of bikers needs, total lack of special training for car drivers, bikers and medical people (it wasn't that long ago that they didn't know that pulling off your helmet after a crash could cause spine damage...) and we've ignored them and got on with it anyway.

Most bikers get into biking because they love it, not because it's easy or cheap or safe... so what can they do to put people off? (that they've not been doing for ages already). It's just another MCN scare story to sell copy...

[21QUEST]

Really? so how come I learnt it as BODMAS or PEMDAS then??

:roll: :lol:



Just wanted to say , thanks for that. Saved me trying to remeber it all night.
>> Bracket Of Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction <jeez I'm getting real old> :lol: .

Cheers
Ben

[Steve W]

(a) MCN scaremongering - saw the headline so didn't buy it
(b) On the Grinch calculation I think my score is 216 so...
(c) Didn't buy MCN twice today I'm so cantankerous!

[lynw]

Really? so how come I learnt it as BODMAS or PEMDAS then??

:roll: :lol:



Just wanted to say , thanks for that. Saved me trying to remeber it all night.
>> Bracket Of Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction <jeez I'm getting real old> :lol: .

Cheers
Ben

Teach computer auditing for tax inspectors. Kind of helpful if you see a formula and you need to know how Excel works it out. Helps us see if the tax is correct :D

I learnt it as: Brackets, Or/And logical operators, Division, Multiplication, Addition and Subtraction. And Pedmas was Parentheses, Exponents, etc
Got it wrong earlier, it is actually PEDMAS not PEMDAS. Sorry, dislexia really is a bugger :roll: :oops: :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mr Toad]

I don't currently have a running bike, but if I did I'd be at 126

very tragic


:twisted:

[Carsick]

I have 2 bikes right now and I'm on 0.

[lynw]

I have 2 bikes right now and I'm on 0.

just be glad you dont have 0 bikes on the road.... that will be an interesting consideration....

division by 0, would that be cancelled out by multiplying by 0?? in which case if you cant divide by 0, whats 0/0?? :D

[Anonymous]

In today’s MCN there is an article about "Vision Zero" a transport policy being adopted by Sweden (some details on Vision Zero here (http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/papers/visionzero.html)) where the goal is to reduce road deaths and injuries to zero by 2020.
The author Claes Tingvall said on TV "There is no room for motorcycles in Vision Zero. We must prevent the recruiting of new motorcyclists. Thinking long-term I regret to say motorcyclists must go" and apparently there may be pressure on the Government to adopt Vision Zero here as it will considered as international best practice although they will apparently gauge public opinion first.

What do you think real threat or like I said MCN scaremongering?

One thing I am puzzled about is motorcycles aren't the only vehicles on the road that are involved in fatal accidents and reducing fatal accidents to zero is imo not really possible.

I haven’t read the full details of the paper yet (I’m doing that now), I just wonder how this could work.

Definitely scaremongering - they have published similar stories in the past - According to several sources, the guy apparently made those comments in 1997 and then retracted them and regretted it due to the outrage that occured. Wherever you go there's always going to be people who want <xyz> banned, this is nothing new!

Anyway, Sweden has about 15% of the vehicle traffic we do - just give 'em London's traffic density and they'll be banning cars :D

However - sadly, I think one day we'll be forced to sit in a safety chair in a safety room doing everything with a RSI-proof safety remote control while wearing a safety jacket. The whole thing will be monitored by a safety camera making sure we don't move out of the chair too fast to get a safety newspaper with paper-cut proof safety edges. ;)

[Anonymous]

I have 2 bikes right now and I'm on 0.

just be glad you dont have 0 bikes on the road.... that will be an interesting consideration....

division by 0, would that be cancelled out by multiplying by 0?? in which case if you cant divide by 0, whats 0/0?? :D

If you take division as calculating the amount which gives the original value when zero is multiplied by it. In that case the answer would be undefinable.

It also depends on the numerical system - dealing with mathematical laws and theorems it would appear to be undefined, however take such a physical example as "multiplying two hundred bricks by zero" - you still have two hundred bricks!

[21QUEST]

I have 2 bikes right now and I'm on 0.

just be glad you dont have 0 bikes on the road.... that will be an interesting consideration....

division by 0, would that be cancelled out by multiplying by 0?? in which case if you cant divide by 0, whats 0/0?? :D

Well I guess applying 'BODMAS' that will give you 0/0 and dividing a number by zero gives 'infinite' so I guess you could say he would have serious issues :lol:

Cheers
Ben

[lynw]

I have 2 bikes right now and I'm on 0.

just be glad you dont have 0 bikes on the road.... that will be an interesting consideration....

division by 0, would that be cancelled out by multiplying by 0?? in which case if you cant divide by 0, whats 0/0?? :D

Well I guess applying 'BODMAS' that will give you 0/0 and dividing a number by zero gives 'infinite' so I guess you could say he would have serious issues :lol:

Cheers
Ben

but that led to my next thought, is infinity multiplied by 0 = 0 ??? :? :lol: :lol:

[21QUEST]

I have 2 bikes right now and I'm on 0.

just be glad you dont have 0 bikes on the road.... that will be an interesting consideration....

division by 0, would that be cancelled out by multiplying by 0?? in which case if you cant divide by 0, whats 0/0?? :D

Well I guess applying 'BODMAS' that will give you 0/0 and dividing a number by zero gives 'infinite' so I guess you could say he would have serious issues :lol:

Cheers
Ben

but that led to my next thought, is infinity multiplied by 0 = 0 ??? :? :lol: :lol:

Ahh........... rse :lol: :lol:

Cheers
Ben

[mattSV]

My GCQ (Grinch Cantankerous Quotient) comes out at 180 - I think that anyone with a GCQ in excess of 150 is a potential danger to society, and therefore should automatically qualify for a second bike on the NHS.

I'll have a speed triple, thank you :lol:

[Grinch]

I've just looked at this thread again and theres so much going on...
You have the GCQ..
discussions about maths..
and the stupid MCN story...

busy little thread...

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I wouldn't write off the article completely. Yes there will be a certain amount of exaduration, but I expect the government would like to ban bikes. Considering how easily the government can destroy liberty now, I don't think it would be implausable for bikes to be banned before 2020.

[Nick762]

If bikes were banned from the road, I'd keep a track bike (presumably that won't be banned) and go out for blasts on the road from time to time on that. I'd just accept that you'd have to try to outrun any police you came across.

Of course, a lot of other people would do the same and it'd be sooooo much safer than the current situation. :roll: :lol:

Just goes to prove the old adage "if you outlaw bikes, only outlaws will have bikes" 8)

[Scoobs]

exaduration

Is this like "exaggeration" or a completely new word that I don't know the meaning of?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

You know those days where you just know you should have stayed in bed?

Yeah...

:oops:

[Sincs]

Makes more sense to ban cars:

:arrow: Meet the reduction of emssions target
:arrow: Solve congestion
:arrow: Improve effeciency of Public Transport
:arrow: Reduce Traffic related crimes (apart from speeding
:twisted: )
:arrow: Reduce road deaths due to *****s who "don't see" bikes

See, This is the wisest choice bar far, just a shame we dont have wise people in power

[didge]

mcn make up total cr*p

[Fizzy Fish]

I wonder whether Vision Zero have considered the fact that pedestrians make up a large proportion of causalties - clearly no one should leave the house without adequate protective clothing plus an inflatable rubber ring in case they happen to fall into a river (it does happen!)

Then there are the accidents which occur in the workplace - essential that we all stay at home...hang on, accidents happen there too?!!

The World has gone mad! :shock:

[jambo]

I'm not saying peope are stupid, but why not just take the warning lables off everything and let the problem solve itself?

Give Darwin a chance to work!