Warning - You can use engine oil on your chain.

[Tony_BLY]

HI Svers

Yesterday on the way home, going down the motorway, in second lane (just coming across from third) an almighty thwack, a high rev noise followed, then the realisation that my chain was no longer attached to my sprockets :( . Instead, it is somewhere on the motorway.

Within two minutes I am rescued by a fellow biker in a car (another biker on a bike stopped to see if he could help also - cheers guys!! :wink: ).

Anyway, to cut a long story short, the kind person who rescued me takes me to my local bike shop and proprietor asks me what lube I have been using. When I tell him I have used fresh engine oil for the life of this chain (6,000 miles so far) he said that they perish the seals causing the grease to be removed and allowing **** to get in ... yadee yadee yah. It was something along these lines (I can't be exactly certain that he didn't say they expanded first and then perished, as I was still replaying in my mind what might have happened to me just 30 minutes before!? :? ).

He said ALWAYS use a chain lube. So there's the advice guys. Make of it what you will, I certainly will be heeding this advice.

Tony from Burnley (Lucky to be at work this morning!)

[TSM]

Pinch of salt i think.

There are a few people on here that use engine oil on their chain. Granted i think they use used oil but still, cant see the big diffrence for the chain between the two.

[454697819]

although ill be flamed for saying this.. lube is lube... to a certain extent, semi synthetic will have good properties for lubbing the chain, its probably just a bit thin and will fling off quickly..

but lube is better than none... :D

[G - renamed]

I’ve used engine oil for a few years and never had a problem. More to the point, I know people that have been using it for 20+ years without a problem.
I wouldn’t have thought the seals on a chain would be a massively different material to some of the seals found in the engine.

He didn’t have a large rack of unsold chain lube, did he? :P

[Tony_BLY]

I agree with all of what has been expressed. I started using engine oil once I had read previous threads on here ... and it does seem a reasonable solution to lubing the chain. However, spoke to my colleague this morning who rides a shaft-driven BMW and he said he had heard that oil shouldn't be used on 'O'-ring chains.

To be honest, I have found the SV a complete b*st*rd for having to keep re-adjusting the chain after only a week or so. Never had same issues with an in-line bike. Guy who rescued me reckoned he had a V-twin Ducati which he said was the same in regards of the chain ... always having to adjust. Is the chain under more brute force with a V-twin than an In-line arrangement?

I am seriously thinking of swapping my bike for this reason.

Ta

Tony

[SV650Racer]

i have always used engine oil on the chain in between meetings and then use a dry lube at the track and have never had a problem!.

In fact i am quite sure the chain stretch is not a common issue on the SV.

Are you sure your not tightening it too much when you adjust it as this can cause it to stretch more than normal.

[TSM]

If you are having to adjust all the time this may be a contributory reason to the chain snapping.

[Tony_BLY]

I am sure you're right ... but I have been deliberately keeping an eye on the tightness i.e not too tight, and also when tightening, adjusting itt on the tight-spot. Furthermore, it was only after 2000 miles that a tight sport started to develop. And I had been lubing it every week.

I don't pull wheelies, don't clunk the gears and try to ride smoothly. I only really open her up in a straight-line on the motorway.

Obviously the chain is under massive load, so even a little grit etc can have a negative effect on the links?!

[TSM]

I had a chain on my bike for at least 6000 miles before i changed it, i bought the bike with 10k i changed at 16k, there was no mention of when it was last changed though. When it was changed it, aparently it was not that bad but as i was doing a 3500 mile trip through europe i was not taking any chances and changed the chain and sprockets.


Does the drive rubbers have any issue to do with chain damage? Possably worn causing harsh snapping on the chain. All possably as i am not sure.

[dirtydog]

fit a scott oiler, i had one on my sv and hardly ever needed to adjust the chain and it lasted ages!

[jonboy]

Well I know Rictus uses engine oil (used! :lol: ) in his Scotoiller and I remember he did something like 40,000 miles on the OEM chain using this method.

Something wrong with engine oil? I don't think so. I would humbly suggest that it's the frequency of application that was likely the problem (and that dealer doesn't sound too well informed sadly) - if you're not using a Scottoiler then you'd need to coat the chain with oil every 100 miles miminum otherwise it will have flung off and you'll be riding on a more or less dry chain.

The chain would also have shown signs that is was going AWOL which should have been noticed when you tightened it. And the other thing is, were you tightening the chain too tightly? Very easy to do, the chain should only be tightened to the Suzuki guidelines at the tightest spot even if it means that the rest of the chain is looser than desired.

Good luck with your next one, but it's not the fault of the SV's twin, get a chain oiler if you're unhappy with lubing very frequently ;).


.

[mysteryjimbo]

Says in most manuals, 10/40 engine oil to lube chains. Obviously depending on environment. Look it up.

[Foey]

I remember seeing a dvd last year, was a freebie with one of the bike mags, the guy in the film was doing a feature on servicing your bike, he went to H*n*a Uk to the main service dept for the feature, now according to the guy in that dvd H*n*a recommend using engine oil on the inside of the chain & chain wax on the outer edge, their theory being that the wax helps avoid excessive fling.


If engine oil caused the rubber seals on the chain to perrish, surely it would have the same effect on any other rubber seal inside the engine.

[BillyC]

Perhaps the problem is that engine oil is thin... and is flung off easily, leaving your chain without any protection.

Look at something like the scottoiler - nothing very special about the oil it delivers, but the benefit is that the constant flow of oil keeps your chain clean.

Now, there's the key "constant flow". If you're going to loose oil, you will have to keep reapplying it very often - which is why the Scotty has a whole reservoir of the stuff!

[Stig]

I pull wheelies all the time (apparently :-dd ) I accelerate hard and brake hard. I have now done about 6000 miles on my current chain and sprockets and during that time I have had to adjust it twice.

I would suggest as others have, that it is not the fact that your using oil rather than a lube that is killing the chain, but rather the frequency that you are using it. It's oil, it would not last very long at all as a lubricant on the chain. I believe that most that use oil, use it via a scottoiler, thus adding oil to the chain constantly.

Other than that, the only other reason I could think off that your chain snapped after such a short time, is possibly, the chain was a cheap one, the wheel was not aligned properly therefore putting wear on the links or that the swingarm is not straight, again causing excessive wear on the chain.

[Tony_BLY]

Lots of food for thought.

All messages make sense. Time to take stock. I think possibly one of the reasons is I had a period of non-use over Xmas, and after I had used it I critically didn't clean and relube the chain. I had noticed my throttle was mega stiff when I returned to use it and had more or less seized. I managed to free it after some TLC and lubrication and perhaps my chain went the same way over this period, possibly seizing a couple of links?

I must agree about the use of oil as a lube, it does seem quite reasonable to use. I am probably still not over my 'near-miss' from yesterday. You would think though that Motorcycle shops would give you sensible advice, especially when I use them for various jobs, which, and I hasten to add, they have always carried out well for me.

Ho hum!

Cheers

Tony :?

[embee]

poppycack. :roll:

There's a common myth that "rubber" is attacked by oil.

First, there's "rubber" and there's "rubber". Saying "rubber" is like saying "metal".

As an example, natural rubber has virtually no resistance to any solvent or hydrocarbon based fluid.
Fluorocarbon rubber is pretty much resistant to any commonly found solvent/HC, but shouldn't be used with glycol/antifreeze.
Silicone rubber is fine with mineral oils and hydraulic fluids, but should not be used with diesel and isn't really recommended for petrol, better to use nitrile or chloroprene, but chloroprene shouldn't be used for water/oil emulsions.

...and so it goes on.

No-one can tell me that respectable chain manufacturers will fit O-rings in a material that will not withstand commonly found lubricants/oils/greases and operate at the temperatures chains reach (warning, don't get hold of a chain that's broken on a bike at high speed!! HOT!! :shock: )

It's not rocket science, it's well proven materials technology. :roll:

[thor]

Quick question for the ones in the know.

If I use a scotoiler, and intend to leave the bike for a few weeks, should I spray some lube on it to stop it drying out/rusting?

Thanks!

[Carsick]

Quick question for the ones in the know.

If I use a scotoiler, and intend to leave the bike for a few weeks, should I spray some lube on it to stop it drying out/rusting?

Thanks!
If you're worried about the plates going a bit rusty, then yes, otherwise it's not really an issue so long as the rollers are lubed well enough when you ride it again.

[thor]

So it doesn't matter if the plates have a (very light) dusting of rust?

[scooby2102]

From the suzuki manual

CLEANING AND LUBRICATING
Wash the chain with kerosene . If the chain tends to rust quickly,
the intervals must be shortened .
CAUTION
Do not use trichlene, gasoline or any similar fluids :
These fluids have too great a dissolving power for this
chain and what is more important, they can damage
the "O"-rings (or seals) confining the grease in the
bush to pin clearance. Remember, high durability
comes from the presence of grease in that clearance .
After washing and drying the chain, oil it with a heavyweight
motor oil .
CAUTION
* Do not use any oil sold commercially as "drive chain
oil" . Such oil can damage the 0-rings (or seals) .
* The standard drive chain is DID525V8 Suzuki recommends
to use this standard drive chain as a replacement.

[Carsick]

So it doesn't matter if the plates have a (very light) dusting of rust?
Indeed. The outside of the plates don't move against anything.

[embee]

It's not a good idea to have any rust on a chain, rust can lead to fatigue cracking especially in high tensile or hardened steels. Having said that we all live in the real world.

I like to use a little spray lube (Castrol Chain Wax is good for this) wiped over the side plates just to protect them from rust, and rely on a Scottoiler for proper lubing. Occasionally wipe the chain with an oily rag to clean off some dirt, or if it's really grubby a wash with paraffin (kerosene), leave to dry, and spray/wipe again.

This is a readable "real world" bit of advice about chain maintenance
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnuts/chain.html

Most important is not to overtighten the chain.

When I had the suspension links apart to grease the bearings, I checked the full suspension travel vs chain slack. I reckon on a curvy SV you need around 30mm minimum slack when the bike is on its sidestand, as a guide that's like 2 links held flat on the rubbing strip on the underside of the swingarm (at the front end). It might seem quite loose, but that is all taken out when the suspension compresses, any less slack and it'll heavily load the chain/sprockets/bearings on bump.

[northwind]

Perhaps the problem is that engine oil is thin... and is flung off easily, leaving your chain without any protection.

This sounds like good sense...

[RandyO]

Perhaps the problem is that engine oil is thin... and is flung off easily, leaving your chain without any protection.

This sounds like good sense...

I use Automatic Transmission Fluid in my scottoiler, very light viscosity, high in detergents, in winter I thin the AFT with about 25% kerosene for better flow when riding in sub zero temps

I find heavier weight lubes make sand & other grit stick to the chain

[Saint Matt]

If you're going to use engine oil, I'd definately use diesel oil.

[mynameis]

fit a scott oiler, i had one on my sv and hardly ever needed to adjust the chain and it lasted ages!
Seconded 11k and never needed to adjust.

[Mark_h]

Does anyone else use chainsaw oil? I used to use it all the time until I got a scottoiler. Great stuff. Costs nothing and sticks to the chain like magic. I still use it on my mountain bikes. If it is designed not to fling off of a chainsaw blade it isn't going to fling of your bike too much.

I may however have caused untold damage to my previous bike and my mountain bikes and stand to be corrected by the experts.

[Sid Squid]

Engine oil is just fine for oiling the chain - only problem is it doesn't last any time before it's gone.

If the chain broke it wasn't 'cos the oil used was wrong, possible causes are lack of lubing, or simply doing it wrong - it's possible to slather the chain in oil and miss all the bits you need to get, not saying you did this, but I see it surprisingly commonly. Of course it is just possible that there was a fault with the chain but this is very rare these days - even quite cheap chains are pretty good.

I'm surprised at your dealer, that's iffy advice at best.

Despite fitting all the chain drive bikes I have with chain oilers, I keep a can of spray chain lube and occasionally squirt a bit on a rag and wipe it along the side plates of the chain thus stopping them rusting.

[Peter Henry]

Engine oil being bad for your chain is as believable as being told the Pope was once under suspision of raping the Queen Mother! :? Total b*llocks. I dont use it myself nowadays due to the "fling" problem associated with it,but apart from that it is completely safe. 8)

[northwind]

I'm delighted that this hasn't turned into a WD40 vs chains debate.

Oops.

[Warren]

engine oil on a chain . . . .

nothing wrong with that in my opinion, many people use it, and many people swear its the best thing to use.
(i remember seeing a ride review where this was mentioned)

my dealer tells me to use engine oil, as it is the best thing to use.

but i dont use engine oil for my chain.
i use ES90 gear oil on my chain.
its what my service manual tells me to use.

i did use engine oil, but proved to fling too much.

the ES90 is much thicker and doesnt fling as much, and also doesnt need re-applying as often.

my chains done 18k so far and no tight spots :)

[Sid Squid]

I'm delighted that this hasn't turned into a WD40 vs chains debate.

Oops.

Well now you mention it...

[Well Oiled]

I'm not an expert on chain lubes but work in engine oil development. Any commercially avalable engine oil with API, ILSAC or ACEA credentials (or any OEM credentials) will have been extensively tested for seal compatibility (we do these tests at our place) so should be fine.

Heavy duty diesel oils need to handle soot and have higher levels of dispersant to stop the soot causing excessive thickening and forming sludge. The dispersants can give seal compatibility problems. I doubt it would have a big affect on the o-rings on a chain, but I'd avoid diesel-specific oils to be safe.

IMO a thinnish gear oil's probably best as it has EP additives, which gives a bit of added protection for hard acceleration.

I certainly wouldn't put used oil from a diesel on a chain as the soot it contains is abrasive.

Having said all that, I use a scottoiler and scottoiler oil :P

HTH Keith

[Tzindo]

Would it not be more likely that the chain was too tight. Its an easy mistake to make and that would caused the chain to fail. It is surely better to have the chain too loose (not excessivly loose) than too tight as it will eventually break under load, and cause the primary drive bearings to wear quickly- or if the suspension is unduely compressed snap the chain. Lets also not forget the excessive salt used on the road at this time of year - lube or no lube salt is corrosive stuff.

[buell]

I use a loobman system and the company states that for general use, engine oil is fine. 10W/40 O rings are acceptable.
:)

G.

[MartC]

HI Svers

Yesterday on the way home, going down the motorway, in second lane (just coming across from third) an almighty thwack, a high rev noise followed, then the realisation that my chain was no longer attached to my sprockets :( . Instead, it is somewhere on the motorway.

Within two minutes I am rescued by a fellow biker in a car (another biker on a bike stopped to see if he could help also - cheers guys!! :wink: ).

Tony from Burnley (Lucky to be at work this morning!)

Hi Mate,

Saw the bike parked up, (Black and with a Bagster cover?) and thought you'd hopped over the barrier for a comfort break, as it was cold yesterday !!

At least you got sorted.

[enon]

Arn't you also suppose to be careful of the type of oil used because of the 'wet clutch', although the... 'why' ...for this is beyond me.


also... glad you got 'sorted' and even though the chain went down the pooper you didn't crash (happened to a buddy of mine on I35...)

[Anonymous]

Arn't you also suppose to be careful of the type of oil used because of the 'wet clutch', although the... 'why' ...for this is beyond me.


also... glad you got 'sorted' and even though the chain went down the pooper you didn't crash (happened to a buddy of mine on I35...)

Thats referring to the internals engine oil. Fully synth can cause the clutch to slip, some say.

[enon]

Arn't you also suppose to be careful of the type of oil used because of the 'wet clutch', although the... 'why' ...for this is beyond me.


also... glad you got 'sorted' and even though the chain went down the pooper you didn't crash (happened to a buddy of mine on I35...)

Thats referring to the internals engine oil. Fully synth can cause the clutch to slip, some say.

THAT EXPLAINS A LOT! I was wondering how those two were related. Thanks. :D

[madmal]

Arn't you also suppose to be careful of the type of oil used because of the 'wet clutch', although the... 'why' ...for this is beyond me.


also... glad you got 'sorted' and even though the chain went down the pooper you didn't crash (happened to a buddy of mine on I35...)

Thats referring to the internals engine oil. Fully synth can cause the clutch to slip, some say.

THAT EXPLAINS A LOT! I was wondering how those two were related. Thanks. :D high :D :D

[Ceri JC]

I used to use scottoil engine in a touring sized scottoiler. Not once since fitting it has the chain needed adjusting. I'm now running engine oil in a scottoiler and aside from needing to up the rate of flow to ensure the chain remains lubed (it does fling noticeably more than with scottoil), there doesn't appear to be much difference (apart from the cost). Chain still hasn't, touch wood, needed adjusting. I subscribe to the POV that it's better to run the chain slightly too loose, rather than slightly too tight. Could be part of the reason my OE sprockets still look mint after 12,000 miles...

[Tony_BLY]

Interesting how the thread has obviously raised some interesting points.

Chain managed to take my front sprocket cover out and the clutch push-rod.

I certainly didn't have the chain adjusted too tight!

Shame that it has been deemed necessary to edit my original title (a tad patronising IMHO)... don't see how that would make any difference to the reading of the threads. Indeed, if the title seemed at odds with people's opinions ... surely they are MORE likely to read it.

Ride Safe. :wink:

[jonboy]

Complain to the Moderators for this section, I can tell you though that it wasn't Admin2 ;).


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