Any pilots out there???

[SPeeeeDY]

I am 19 and am interested in learning to fly. Like all young lads i wanted to be a pilot, so when i was 14 i bought a radio controled plane then sold it when i was 16 to put towards a scooter.

For my 18th birthday my auntie bought me a trial flight, and i got the bug again. I was planning on starting to learn last year, but i am currently an electrical apprentice and had lots of college work to do, i also got carried away with the bike, ride-outs, trackdays, isle of man etc etc. Then i bought a trials bike and found i had no time left to do out!!!

I will finish my electrical apprenticeship this year, have my final practical test (AM2) in June/ July. so all my college work is now out of the way. I would like to get my licence soon, but only if there would be a pilots job available once i got my licence. Basically i could not fit it in as just a hobby and i would not be able to afford it as another hobby!
I am not interested in flying the big planes, just small ones (technical term!!!) So i would not need a licence to fly jets. I think i would be interested in a job as maby doing the trial flights in light aircraft or maby even microlights. What about flying around the uk as an air courier?!?

Now the questions

What kind of job would i be able to get?
What kind of money would i be earning?
How do i go about learning to fly?
What licence will i need?
I know theres a lot of reading to be done, so where can i get hold of these books?


Thanks

Ryan

[rwoodcock01]

Tough one mate,

going the civi street way is hard.

Everyone I know is ex-RAF. Have you considered joining the RAF in the Engineering field. That way you can learn to fly with them, plenty of clubs and social events and cost you a whole lot less as well.

That way you could do a short service commision as an officer or enginner and learn to fly as a side interest, (you might find its not for you?). Leave the service with some good experience and hopefully contacts!

Just a thought, but remember with a pilot licence there are different grades and you have to maintain a number of hours in the air to keep your licence, etc, etc.

Hope this helps mate!

Rich

[SPeeeeDY]

Thanks for that. I did consider the RAF when i left school, but i would miss my sv too much. I dont even like working away from home with the job i have now!

I know bits and bats about the hours regulations. Thats why i will not go for my licence yet if i cannot get a job as a pilot. But i also do now want to take a pay cut from what i am earning now, well a cut for the first couple of years would be understandable. but after that i want to be earning more or equal to an electricinas rate.


Thanks

SPeeeeDY

[Skip]

A new pub drinking buddy is a commercial pilot for KLM - no idea how much he earns but he hinted that it has cost him (he is 32) £70,000 to get where he is now! :shock: He did Aviation Engineering at University and has pretty much funded himself all the way. Its funny when we talk about what he has done during the working week and he just shrugs off spending 2 days in Marseille etc! :lol:

By his own admission its not easy - apparently BA pay their pilots to train but the lower cost airlines dont which is one of the reasons that their fares can be cheaper....

[Spiderman]

Have a look at a few of the airlines websites. Some do sponsorship and trainee pilot courses and i think even Easy jet did one a while back when i was looking.

Found i'm too old to do anything about it now, except privately :(

Good luck to ya either way. Pilot was my dream job but i never pursued it sadly.

[SPeeeeDY]

Thanks, i will look into them. I did not know that they operated light aircraft


SPeeeeDY

[hall13uk]

fit a power commander your bike will soon fly :wink: :wink: i can tell you

[rwoodcock01]

Thanks for that. I did consider the RAF when i left school, but i would miss my sv too much. I dont even like working away from home with the job i have now!

I know bits and bats about the hours regulations. Thats why i will not go for my licence yet if i cannot get a job as a pilot. But i also do now want to take a pay cut from what i am earning now, well a cut for the first couple of years would be understandable. but after that i want to be earning more or equal to an electricinas rate.


Thanks

SPeeeeDY

Ahhhh, I was worried when I first left home, the RAF is not that scary, besides how else are you supposed to get on base, you ride the bike, likely to be very safe trust me! :wink: Most pilots ride bikes so your best way to make friends.

To be honest, have your considered the RAF reserves? You could work as an electrician and also be in the RAF, still learn to fly that way. Its bloody expensive to learn to fly, or it can be.

Most airlines look for a lot of experience and I know some people have funded themseleves, but you really have to want to learn to fly to do this.

I did a quick google to find these:

http://www.intotheblue.co.uk/trial-flying-lesson.shtml?source=google
http://www.pilotweb.co.uk/
http://www.rafreserves.com/

There are a few links, the second one has a forum, not sure if its of any use, but have a look. The last link is for the RAF reserves, have a look by all means, but if its not for you, its not for you.

Best of luck mate, I really mean that, if you really want it, go for it, its better to have tried than to have looked back in life and wished you really had gone for it!

Cheers

Rich

[Anonymous]

OK where to start.

First things first - medicals.

You need to sit a Class 3 Pilots Medical (IIRC) which costs a few hundred pounds and needs to be done by a certified CAA doctor.

IF you pass this, you can continue. If you dont.... :cry:

The levels of aviation licensing is as follows:

PPL Private Pilots License
CPL Commercial Pilots License
ATPL Air Transport Pilots License

As far as i can remember you need to have acheived ATPL before you can officially get a job for a commercial airliner.

In between these levels, there are lots of different "ratings" you HAVE to acheive:

Multi Engine Rating
Night Rating
IFR (instrument flight rules)

You also then have to sit all the examinations for all of the respective steps - airlaw, air nav, principles of flight etc - all of which cost money.

The best bet is to contact airlines or cargo companies to see what the requirements are.

There are two main avenues you can go down:

1) Sponsership. This is where you get sponsered through all the training levels by an airline. The Pro of this is that they pay the extortionate costs required to get the ratings, but the big Con of it is that once qualified, you are generally tied into contract with that airline for a pre-determined length of time - typically 5-10 years. This will potentially hinder your career development as you may be able to get a better paid job with a different firm, but not be able to as you are signed into contract with your sponsor.

2) Pay for it yourself. This is a risky way to go unless you are a) loaded b) prepared to take any old job at each step of the way to gain the work experience at each stage. Its hard to say typical costs of getting trainined to ATPL with all the required ratings, but its somewhere in the region of £50 - £70,000. AND EVEN THEN, once you are qualified, a lot of airlines wont take you - as they want you to be trained THEIR way. This happened to my instructor whilst i was training to be a cadet instructor.. he had just acheived his ATPL and applied for a job at monarch. They turned him down on the basis that he was "too qualified for the job" - which basically means they wanted to train the successful applicant their way, and not have someone who had already been trained.

He had to settle for flying antisocial hours for a no frills airline for many years before he had the relevant experience for other "main stream" airlines to consider him.

Of course, the whole issue depends on what exactly you want to do in aviation. If you want to fly recreational flights over the lake district for example, you only need a CPL. IF you are only flying during VFR (visual flight rules) and during day light hours - you wont need the Night Rating and IFR ratings. If the aircraft you fly only has the one engine - you can save about £5-£10,000 on your multi-engine ratings.

You say that you wont go for your licenses until you definately know you can get a job as a pilot. Im afraid, the only ways to get a job as a pilot are the two ways mentioned ahead. Unless you are a graduate, or an outstanding candidate - the airlines will be reluctant to take you on board as a sponsoree. Which leaves you with the option of training, and THEN applying for jobs.

Consider a career development loan from the banks.... thats what my best friend who i was training with the RAF did.

IF you have any particular questions you would like answering, please feel free to PM me and ill ask my colleagues from RAF (many of whom are qualifed CAA pilots too) for the answers.


Joe.

[SPeeeeDY]

thanks for the reply. the PilotsWeb site looks to be good, and the basic learning to fly section is spot on.

I would not be suited to the RAF, as i hate been orderd what to do :evil:
I think i will have a ride up to multiflight at leeds/bradford airport and have a chat with them.

Thanks again
Ryan

[Anonymous]

Also take a trip down to the school at Sherburn in Elmet trading estate - thats where my mate is doing his PPL at. They seem to be really spot on with him, hes constantly full of praise about it.

You could also look at doing other forms of aviation. How about getting your PPL then becoming an instructor yourself?

Or Microlighting - now THAT is an adventure!

Theres loads of things to get into.... all depends on your apptitude and of course medical.

I failed on my eye sight test in the ATC/RAF whilst 17 and it ruined my flying career.

THe only true license i can get is the PPL(R) which is now called AFAIK the JAR.

THis allows me to fly a light aircraft, in VFR conditions no more than 150 miles from my home airfield - and thats just pants.

So im loking at getting into hang-gliding and then getting my instructor rating. Ive got 1 step to go before im fully qualified to fly my own rig anywhere in the world. Just need another £3-4,000 :shock: :cry:

[SPeeeeDY]

Thanks getyerkneedown

That was like a kick in the teeth :lol: All my dreams virtually gone in the 3 mins it took to read that!!!

Might have to resort to microlights. But could i get a job flying them?!? and will that be a lot cheaper?

This is gonna take some time to achieve! Might just have to put wings on the SV :lol:

Cheers

Ryan

[Anonymous]

Thanks getyerkneedown

That was like a kick in the teeth :lol: All my dreams virtually gone in the 3 mins it took to read that!!!

Might have to resort to microlights. But could i get a job flying them?!? and will that be a lot cheaper?

This is gonna take some time to achieve! Might just have to put wings on the SV :lol:

Cheers

Ryan

SOrry Ryan, wasnt meant as a kick in the teeth - just thought id tell you the full information. Id strongly recommend going for a career as an airline pilot if you can, as the idea of my office being at 35,000ft and moving at 580mph is just a massive turn on! :lol: Sadly for me it will remain a fantasy. Go for it buddy - seriously.

Microlighting - theres lots of things they are used for, recreational purposes being just one.

Other uses are as follows:

You know those photos you can buy of your estate where you live? The arial ones? They're taken from a microlight.

At hang-gliding sites (some not all) a microlight is used as a "tug" to launch hang gliders.

You could become an instructor for a school.

THey are used occasionally to map out sites for the Ordenance (sp) Survey map people. They've lots of uses. All of which require pilots.

As far as costs - its a damned sight cheaper than airline pilot qualifications - to get trained up to the level where you can fly on your own - id budget for about £10-15,000 as opposed to the £70,000 you could expect for full blown ATPL.

Sorry if ive ****ed on your fireworks buddy, but its still a realistic goal if you set your heart and mind to it.

8)

[_Stretchie_]

Is he asking how many of us have our wings????

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Sorry, couldn't resisit it

[Rog]

I read some where that to get your PPL you can do it for as little as about £4000. Mind you that was a few years ago so it may be nearer £6000 now. You could also go for what I think is termed a MPPL which limits you to microplanes / lites during the daytime in good VFR conditions (not sure on the mileage limit).

As for a job flying, as has been stated they are out there but you should do research into it to find the scope and frequency for these jobs. You must also consider that to keep your license you will have to fly a minimum number of hours per year and pass regular medicals so its gonna cost to keep it, job or not.

Im not trying to put you off. If its a dream then grab it is what I say. Go to your local airfield and ask around. There will be plenty of enthuiasts to give you advice and whats your best way forward.

[tigersaw]

I have two friends who fly for fun - both found it MUCH cheaper to learn in Florida, then convert their FAA licence to CAA - don't ask me the ins and outs, I don't know.
One of them considered trying to progress and make it a career, but its a long path, so he chose IT instead.

[amarko5]

I have a friend who also learned to fly for fun

started in microlites then onto fixed wind single and multi now onto helicopters currently siting at a 4 seater helicopter licence

costs so far he estimates at 45,000 the largest part of his costs has been getting in the hours as it's expensive to hire the copters on an hourly basis

but you need the time in the air to progress forward to the next level.

he has however made money on occasions by flying rich and famous peeps door to door in the helicopters.

and he also owns his own business so can pop out whenever the feeling takes him :lol:

[Bangerformerleympton]

Hi,

I've sent you an email. I used to be a member on here and was alerted by Sythree that you were interested in flying. I currently fly Senior P2 for a UK airline and will try and help you if you want to proceed this way.

Don't bother with Multiflight, you need to go to a decent school like Cabair or OATS (if you want a chance of getting a job when you graduate anyway.)

Thanks,
M.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I've sent you an email. I used to be a member on here and was alerted by Sythree that you were interested in flying. I currently fly Senior P2 for a UK airline and will try and help you if you want to proceed this way.

Don't bother with Multiflight, you need to go to a decent school like Cabair or OATS (if you want a chance of getting a job when you graduate anyway.)

Thanks,
M.

Mpaton2005! Hello there Sir! Wondered where the devil you got to. When i was writing my advice out i was thinking to myself "God, wheres mpaton gone - he'd know for sure".

Good to see you back on buddy, keep posting and dont do a runner again.

Joe.

[timwilky]

One of my boozing friends is currently subsiding his sons commercial flight training at some place in Spain. He has been there for about 8 months so far. Reckons it is a lot cheaper that doing it in the UK. I will get details next time I am sober enough to ask him.

[Bangerformerleympton]

That would be BAE Systems in Jerez - very nice place (near the racetrack.)

[BillyC]

I did my PPL in Florida in 2000 and was one of the first to received a "new styile" JAR licence, instead of the older CAA licences. Florida cost considerably less than it would have cost me to do it here in the UK. I got a nice holiday included in the price too. Most importantly the weather is more reliable, and the culture is more amenable to air transport.

To do this today in Florida, you will need to get a Visa - we have 9/11 to thank for that.

The route to commercial flying is a tricky one, and there are plenty of hurdles along the way. What you have to realise is that it is a) very very expensive b) you will not necessarily get a job at the end of it c) what job you do manage to get will not pay very well - and you will have some considerable debts to finance by this stage. Finally - you can't ignore the fact that the job is just like being a buss driver.

Most people start with a PPL, which in this country you'll be lucky to get done for £6000 these days. It's not just about flying time, but also the academic effort that you need to put in to pass the 7 exams before doing your flight test. This must now all be completed within 12 months of starting.

I think the PPL course is at least 45 hours flying time, at least 10 of which must be solo hours. The reality is that you'll be going solo around your 10th hour; and will probably clock up about 20 hours by the end of the course.


The RAF is all very well if you wanted to join the forces. However, to join as Pilot or Navigator is extremely difficult given the medical standards required, and the number of people applying for the role. I recently saw a programme on the RAF pilot training school and was so glad that I wear glasses and wasn't accepted.

A first time Class-2 medical for a PPL will be about £150, renewals are cheaper. You will need this before you can fly solo. Medicals in the states are simpler, and cheaper... but not transferable to the UK.

Any questions?

[Bangerformerleympton]

What kind of job would i be able to get?
What kind of money would i be earning?
How do i go about learning to fly?
What licence will i need?
I know theres a lot of reading to be done, so where can i get hold of these books?


Thanks

Ryan

In order.

To get an airline job you'll need a CPL/IR ("Frozen" ATPL) at a minimum. You'll also probably need to have a type rating on a particular aircraft.

As Junior-P2 expect to start on around £20,000 pa - rising to approximately £80k as Captain. Some very senior pilots on long haul can earn well over £200k but these days are coming to an end. It's entirely dependent on the market conditions and airline.

In todays climate it is not a financially lucrative job. If you finance the whole training operation yourself, you are likely to be in serious debt as the training costs are similar to buying a house. You will be living on a pittance and working long and unsociable hours.

As someone said, it is very similar to driving a bus - except most of the time you don't have your hands on the wheel in an aircraft! You'll spend 90% of your time monitoring aircraft systems, following procedures to the letter and speaking to ATC / talking to the Captain about his golfing trip or his new car.

Hands-on flying is very minimal and limited to takeoffs and landings and THEN only when the aircraft is below the 200ft IFR DH! Even then, unless you are landing hands on for currency, all you will do is disconnect the AP/FD and flare the bird onto the ILS TDZ.

Oh it's also a world of abbreviations and TLAs ;)

Don't let me put you off!

[Bangerformerleympton]

I would not be suited to the RAF, as i hate been orderd what to do :evil:


If you don't like answering to authority I wouldn't bother, in all seriousness. You will be told what to do left right and centre. If you don't do it, you will be sacked.

[SPeeeeDY]

Wow. There some interesting posts.

Im starting to think it will be an easier life for me to stick at what i know (little of)- electricity!

The dream of flying is looking like it will have to stay as a dream for the time being, it will be too expensive for this time in my life when realy i should be saving for a deposit on a house.

£6000 or so for the ppl is achievable but that wont get me a job. I cannot risk spending over £10,000 and not have a guaranteed job, where the money compares to what i am getting at the moment at the end of the training!!!

I will still go up to Multiflight (Cabair and OATS are too far away) and have a word with them. Maby even have a ride over to the gliders club and the microlight club in York


Thanks again for the very useful information

Captain (to be) Ryan :lol:

[Gnan]

edit: sorry bad joke :D

[cb9002]

All good advice from the above, estimate 6k for PPL and 60k for fATPL.

One way to save a few bob is to start by doing a PPL on microlights or self-launching motor gliders - these cost 30-70 an hour, instead of the 150 or so a school will charge you.

Don't do an NPPL if you want to progress any further, because you can't! You can't get night/IMC ratings, fly abroad, fly complex aircraft...

In order to fly commercially, you'll also need a class I medical - a lot stricter (and more expensive) than a normal PPL job.

Tigersaw you can actually do a full JAA PPL out in Florida now, no conversion necessary! The only thing is, we get them at work all the time and they stick out a mile away 'cos they can't cope with crosswinds or even a little bit of rough air. One of my mates flew out there and said you didnt' need an autopilot, you just trimmed and it would track straight for 10 miles!

I also thought about being a pilot, but decided against it. You'll be fighting a lot of other very dedicated people and the lifestyle is crap, especially if you get a wife/kids. For all you could possibly want to know about the job, take a look at:

www.pprune.org/forums

Good luck!

PS Electrical engineering right? Considered these guys (http://natscareers.co.uk/)? Top of scale 80 grand, plenty of money to hire a plane at the weekends!][/b]