British design quest

[The Basket]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/cultureshow/designquest/vote/

I voted for the Supermarine Spitfire. A true British Icon.

Art, beauty, speed and some big machine guns....the perfect big boy's toy. :wink:

[carelesschucca]

Can't really vote for the Mini can you it was designed by a Turk...

[Biker Biggles]

I voted for Concorde,even though the French had a bit to do with it.

[philipMac]

:shock: I'm sorry... Mini skirts and the E-Type Jag got dropped out of the top ten, in favour of GTA and Tombraider???

I mean. Catseyes may save lives and things... but, the E-Type Jag. I saw a minty one the other day in Greenwich Village, sitting there, parked, English racing green... I actually felt a bit giddy looking at it.
I honestly think... they make most Ferraris look gauche.

Deeply pretty things.

( I am with BB about the Concorde. My old man lived in Scotland when they were prototyping and developing it. And, now I can poke my head out of my window and see one over the river... and they are titchy! :roll: )

[Anonymous]

I think the CLEVEREST thing is the www, but it's hardly a design, is it? So, given that the E-type is dropped (WTF :? ) it'll have to be the Routemaster bus - if only because, by dropping it, Mayor Stali...oops, Livingstone has managed to choke up London streets for the next twenty years.

[fizzwheel]

Why oh why is Grand Theft Auto in that list :?

Tube Map for me, thats a work of genius IMHO

[tricky]

Erm did we invent the world wide web ? I thought that was the US military, arpanet and all that ?.

Tough choice for me between the Spitfire, the Routemaster and the Underground map (Harry Beck a largley unsung hero of British engineering)

I think its got to be Harry's map though.

P.S. E-Type and DB5 out, Tombraider in ???

[tricky]

I voted for the Supermarine Spitfire. A true British Icon.

Art, beauty, speed and some big machine guns....the perfect big boy's toy. :wink:

Sorry for the Minor de-rail but here goes anyway.
Micthell's Spitfire is a beautiful and fearsome warplane but it was largly made of stressed aluminum, so you didn't have to put to many holes in it before it came to bits.

Also because of the position of its glycol tanks (under the nose) it was also vunerable to flak and small arms fire at low altitude.

Sydney Camm's Hurricane on the other hand was old technology and wasn't so pretty but it could take a hell of a pounding and still bring its a pilot home.
Shot down a lot more planes than the Spitfire and could also be used as an effective close support tool too.
Shame it never really got the recognition or development it deserved IMHO

I have nothing against the Spitfire it was a brilliant warplane and a work of genius, not to mention one of the most stunning looking aircraft of all time (Marks 9 and under, the Griffon engined planes never looked right to me)

[The Basket]

All good points and spot on.
The Hurricane was old tech but was a better warplane than the Spitfire. As it could keep flying with very little support...and that was vital in 1940.

The Rolls Royce Merlin engine should also be a design classic...Youth of today, Eh?

[Anonymous]

Erm did we invent the world wide web ? I thought that was the US military, arpanet and all that ?.

I stand to be corrected but, I think the Internet concept was the US Military, but the WWW is accredited to Sir Tim Berners-Lee.

While we are at it, why isn't Colossus, the world's FIRST real computer and invented and largely built by Sir Tommy Flowers, not on the list?

Lastly, IMO, the Hurricane was a great fighter - and spawned an even greater array of superb ground support airplanes from Tornado to Tempest - but the real genius of the Spitfire was the thin semi-elliptical wing which simply made it faster for given power - and therefore the better interceptor. It may not have been able to take the pounding that a Hurri could take, but it got up to the enemy faster, and at a higher altitude, and therefore was a better fighter plane per se.

[tricky]

I stand to be corrected but, I think the Internet concept was the US Military, but the WWW is accredited to Sir Tim Berners-Lee.


Didn't know that, I've learned somthing today.


While we are at it, why isn't Colossus, the world's FIRST real computer and invented and largely built by Sir Tommy Flowers, not on the list?


Good point, built largely out of his own pocket as well


Lastly, IMO, the Hurricane was a great fighter - and spawned an even greater array of superb ground support airplanes from Tornado to Tempest - but the real genius of the Spitfire was the thin semi-elliptical wing which simply made it faster for given power - and therefore the better interceptor. It may not have been able to take the pounding that a Hurri could take, but it got up to the enemy faster, and at a higher altitude, and therefore was a better fighter plane per se.

I think (from previous posts) there are enough aviation enthusiasts on here to start a "Best Fighter" fighter thread, I think it might rival the megathread though :D

[Demonz]

Me - I voted for the Cats Eyes and agree with James May's comments on the amount of lives its saved. Its not until you drive on roads where they arent present that you realise just how useful they are.

[rwoodcock01]

The Spitfire for me. Yes I know there where more Hurricanes and yes I know they could take a whole lot more punishment.

However nothing captured the spirit and mood of the poeple than the Spitfire during the bleak 1940's.

The Hurricane just could not compet fully with the 109's and especially the Focke-Wolf 190's later on. The Spitfire made a damm good fighter/interceptor and the hurricane was a good fighter but was better suited for hitting bombers.

Sorry, I fell in love with the Spitfire when I lived at Coningsbury (we where on the final waypoint for RAF Coningsbury you got to our house/farm and all the pilots knew where to turn for home).

As such the Battle of Britain memorial flight was always flying over, and there I was looking up with half a dozen other lads listenting to them all go over, you have not lived until you hear six merlin engines fly past, its a growl that goes deep into the heart and you never forget it. :love:

It was a big influence in my life

Guess I am a little biased! :oops: :lol:

Cheers

Rich

**edit: Mind you the tornado pilots where forever taking the chimny or the roof tiles off! :lol: :lol: **

[northwind]

The Hurricane was old tech but was a better warplane than the Spitfire. As it could keep flying with very little support...and that was vital in 1940.


The WW2 SV650 ;)

I voted Grand Theft Auto. Sorry.

[seedy100]

Concord.

To be fair it was a tough choice between that and the Spitfire.

Grand Theft Auto - What to$$er put that in!

[Ed]

Concorde. When I lived in Saltash in east Cornwall, it used to fly overhead at about 9.15pm. I always knew because of the noise. It would be overhead the parents in law in Falmouth a few mins later - that's at least an hour in the car. They used to hear the bang as it acclerated off over the Atlantic.

[The Basket]

A recollection I have of one particular Spitfire is not a good one.

I was at an air display at nearby Woodford years ago when a Mk XIV Spitfire made a controlled flight into terrain. The pilot was killed.

Amazingly, they are rebuilding the Spitfire, with what god knows because it looked scrapped. Fair play to them if they can though.

[wyrdness]

It was a tough choice between Spitfire, Routemaster and the phone box. I discounted Concorde as it was an Anglo-French design. In the end I voted for the Spitfire, as it's far faster and better looking than a Routemaster (or phone box).

[tricky]

It was a tough choice between Spitfire, Routemaster and the phone box. I discounted Concorde as it was an Anglo-French design. In the end I voted for the Spitfire, as it's far faster and better looking than a Routemaster (or phone box).

I last rode on a Routemaster in Dec 2004, it was a "C" Plate (1965) pretty good going to be in service for nearly 40 years.

[Dicky Ticker]

-----FERGUSON TRACTORS--------
The people who pioneered the 4 wheel drive system that is still being used in some basic form in every 4 wheel drive vehicle today

May not be in the list but should be

[K]

To be honest, I can actually see the potential for Tomb Raider and GTA when set against the E-Type and DB5. :shock: :oops:

They are both beautiful cars, an E-Type is one I'd commit GBH to own. But design wise - are they that revolutionary? In terms of engine positioning and production requirements the Mini certainly was, they weren't.

With the games, they both (though to my mind TR more than GTA) were a phenomenal step up at their time. Overall, design wise they did set new standards in a variety of ways.

So I get it; I don't like it, but I get it.

Voted Tube Map though. Practical, simple, innovative, an instantly recognisable icon of London, if not the UK.

[Nick762]

Spitfire without a doubt.

Regardless of the shortcomings, both an icon and a work of art.

Echoing Rwoodcock01's comments, there's not many aircraft I can identify by engine noise alone but that Merlin growl is music to the ears (better even than an SV with an unbaffled aftermarket can) 8)

[tricky]

Echoing Rwoodcock01's comments, there's not many aircraft I can identify by engine noise alone but that Merlin growl is music to the ears (better even than an SV with an unbaffled aftermarket can) 8)

Pedant mode :wink:
There where a number of single engine fighters (other than the Spit) tha used the Merlin engine. P51 Mustang, Hurricane and possibly the B-P Defiant.

Sorry, I'll get me coat. :D

[The Basket]

Echoing Rwoodcock01's comments, there's not many aircraft I can identify by engine noise alone but that Merlin growl is music to the ears (better even than an SV with an unbaffled aftermarket can) 8)

Pedant mode :wink:
There where a number of single engine fighters (other than the Spit) tha used the Merlin engine. P51 Mustang, Hurricane and possibly the B-P Defiant.

Sorry, I'll get me coat. :D

And the Curtiss P-40, Defiant(Yep), The Fairey's Fulmar, Battle and Barracuda...i'll get your coat for you!!!! :lol:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Curtiss P-40

You sure?

[The Basket]

Curtiss P-40

You sure?

Er.....yeah....
The early P-40's had Allisons but the later P-40's had Merlins....just like the Mustang.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Curtiss P-40

You sure?

Er.....yeah....
The early P-40's had Allisons but the later P-40's had Merlins....just like the Mustang.

I seem to remember they always suffered from relatively poor engines. Perhaps I'm thinking they we're always stuck with more primative single stage supercharged merlins.

[northwind]

(Wayne's World voice on)

Do these guys know how to party or what!

[Biker Biggles]

Then there was the Mosquito which had two of them. :lol: Even better noise. :P
The De Haviland museum near South Mymms is well worth a visit if you like that sort of thing.I've got a picture of me sitting in the prototype mossie somewhere.

[wyrdness]

Then there was the Mosquito which had two of them. :lol: Even better noise. :P
The De Haviland museum near South Mymms is well worth a visit if you like that sort of thing.I've got a picture of me sitting in the prototype mossie somewhere.

I didn't know about this one. The web site is here:

http://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/

It's near junction 22 on the M25, between South Mimms and St. Albans, so not too far from where I live. If anyone fancies a ride out to there one weekend let me know.

[rwoodcock01]

Curtiss P-40

You sure?

Er.....yeah....
The early P-40's had Allisons but the later P-40's had Merlins....just like the Mustang.

Your right mate, was not sure, I had to double check!

http://www.aviation-history.com/curtiss/p40.html


Cheers

Rich

[The Basket]

I forgot to include the Spanish Messerschmitt Me-109's, the Hispano Ha-1112 "Buchon", that were re-engined with merlins...

Hmmm....I have decided to give up on Aeroplanes and 'Get a life'.

I think I may take up motorcycling. Does anyone know of any nice shiny ones I can buy?

And take up a career in Computing....no nerds or geeks there....

[Biker Biggles]

Have you considered a "Spondon Merlin"?You wont need the two stage supercharger as long as you don't take it higher than the odd Alpine pass.
:D :D

[philipMac]

Erm did we invent the world wide web ? I thought that was the US military, arpanet and all that ?.

I stand to be corrected but, I think the Internet concept was the US Military, but the WWW is accredited to Sir Tim Berners-Lee.

While we are at it, why isn't Colossus, the world's FIRST real computer and invented and largely built by Sir Tommy Flowers, not on the list?

The WWW is a part of The Internet. DARPA joined LANs up to make a sort of de-centralised (and hopefully) indesctructable way of storing and moving data about the place. An internet is 2 or more LANs joined up. The Internet is the whole shebang, gopher, WWW, finger, Instans Messenger, runs on loads of differant protocols, HTTP, FTP, SSH, IMAP, POP, Telnet etc.
The WWW is just something that runs on the Internet. Its the bits you see with your HTML browser. And, Tim Berners Lee, who is english, defined up how it works. Except he did it in CERN, in Switzerland. So, its sort of English. I suppose.

Just want to say, while Flowers was the engineer on the Colossus project, Alan Turing was what it was all about. I didnt even think of Turing when I saw this. Because, he is not in the same class as the guys who designed Spitfires, and E-Types, and Cateyes.

I think Alan Turing is one of the most important people to have lived.

First the bloke basically defined what computer science was. He set out what is and isnt fundamentally computable. Every single computer under your desk is just a generalisation of a Turing machine. They all behave according to the rules set out by Turing.

Then he designs the first computer, the Bombe and The Colossus.

Then, with the help of these machines, him (along with his team) broke the Enigma... which was at the very least fundamental for winning the 2nd world war.

He then completely designed the first stored program (Von Neumann architecture) computer.

Doing any one of these things, is greatness. To do what he did, puts him up there with Newton, Darwin and Einstein. Honestly, he is that important.

And, now...the kicker.

He was gay. And... because of this he was harrased, jailed, forceably druged, untill he couldnt take it any more, and he killed himself.

I have no doubt that Intelligence, the British Military knew this. They knew full well, and they were happy to have him help win WWII (even thought gays were not allowed in the UK Military). But, afterwards the same people harrased him to death. And, now almost no-one knows about him.

And I think this is one of the saddest stories in history.

[The Basket]

The Concorde won it.

Hmmm....

I didn't know France was British? Do the French Know?

Ah well...A time when the UK could build such things....sigh....

[huge]

Nice one phillipMac

Turing is gone and not forgotten.

He remains a fine example of the crass stupidity of discriminating against people on the basis of sexuality (or religion, ethnic background and on and on)

They had no problem with his sexuality when they needed him at Bletchley Park.

Unfortunatley he was embroiled in a police investigation some years after the war and was told he was to be outed as a 'pervert'. He took the honourable way out...

RIP

[philipMac]

Nice one phillipMac

Turing is gone and not forgotten.

He remains a fine example of the crass stupidity of discriminating against people on the basis of sexuality (or religion, ethnic background and on and on)

They had no problem with his sexuality when they needed him at Bletchley Park.

Unfortunatley he was embroiled in a police investigation some years after the war and was told he was to be outed as a 'pervert'. He took the honourable way out...

RIP

Thanks man.

Sometimes this whole gay thing just gets me really angry. The amount of pain it has caused, and causes. The amount of lives, and fights.
My uncle was gay, and killed himself.
My girlfriends grandfather was gay, and killed himself.

Its just so pointless. My uncle was a very smart Mathematician, but had to leave Ireland. He was treated with drugs.

I mean, jesus christ, Alan Turing HELPED YOU WIN WWII. He fundamentally changed ALL OF SCIENCE. Do you think that he deserves even a small bit of privacy? He is literally as great as Darwin, Einstien, etc.

How horrifically stupid can people be to decide that they are going to persecute you because you like to be with men more than women. And, now they ignore him. The English basically ignore one of their truely great people.

When they made that film, about turing, "Enigma", a couple of years ago, they turned him into a heterosexual guy. And changed his name.

I mean... words fail me. How can people ignore history like this? If Stalin was gay, do you ignore everything he did to?
No. Because, Stalin was bad. And, everyone would know that, on top of that, he was a homo.

But, they ignore Turing. Make a film about him, make him straight, and ignore the all the facts.

:cry:

[northwind]

Strangely enough, when Neal Stevenson included Turing as a character in Cryptonomicon, and depicted him (funnily enough) as gay, he was threatened with legal action by his estate. It seems like they actively want him to be either remembered as straight, or forgotten as gay :(