So then £40m Money heist

[Viney]

Inside job, or just a gang with very large gonads?

Right or worng?

No one got hurt, good luck to them, or go to hell, the thieving b'stards

Discuss

[keithd]

its simple really, you can go round stealing money. why should they be hailed as hero's, assuming some do hail them in such a fashion

nobody got hurt cos nobody tried to tackle them. i'm sure if there was somebody innocent who got caught up in it and fancied a go would have been hurt

ps good luck to them i say :D

[wyrdness]

Do you reckon that they'll replace all of our banknotes, like the Irish did after that recent large raid?

[tricky]

Abducted the Manager of the depot, his wife and 8 year old son, tied them up and held them at gunpoint for 6 hours and threatened to kill them.

Heroes - no
Scumbags -yes

[Anonymous]

I say good luck to them - they're going to need it.

No one got hurt - physically anyway.

They may appear to be scumbags etc, but they certainly arent stupid people.

To pull of a heist of that size takes some SERIOUS planning and reco, not to mention balls and nerves of steel and massive commitment.

Their problems have only just started though. The next thing they need to action is getting the funds out of the UK so that they can start to put it through the system.

My educated guess is that the funds will be deposited in small amounts over a period of time into bank accounts throughout europe, then transferred time and time and time again to create a confusing mess of trails. The funds will then be pulled out in "legit" currency in various OS locations, BVI, Spain, Belize etc.

My gut instinct says that there is an element of inside job to it. That person is going to either wind up wearing a concrete overcoat, or is going to become a prime suspect for the investigation when he doesnt show for work in a few days time.

But in all fairness to them - way to go lads.

:lol: Christ - its only money. It can and will be replaced by The Mint.

[stewboy]

good effort i say .....only wish i had done it first. :(

[tricky]

You know an awful lot about this money laundering lark Mr GYKD :wink:

I admire their nerve and all that but, abducting children pretending to be police officers, pulling guns on them and threatening to kill them ?

[Anonymous]

You know an awful lot about this money laundering lark Mr GYKD :wink:

I admire their nerve and all that but, abducting children pretending to be police officers, pulling guns on them and threatening to kill them ?

Sure, its scary for the people concerned. But given time and councelling, they will get over it.

Pretending to be police officers and abducting people pales into insignificance when you consider the crimes they may and WILL commit in the process of making this dirty money clean.

People will be killed over this - that goes with out saying. Even if they DO get away with it, they need to be constantly looking over their shoulder for the remainder of their lives. They cant spend the money in big whacks - i.e going out and buying that Farrari Enzo they've always wanted etc. Chances are the funds are destined for some terrorist organisation. For example - Google: "Mohammed Derbah"... massive money launderer and fraudster.. associated with Hizbollah and Amal.

When i worked in Finance (balancing accounts, transferring funds and broking deals etc) at a massive UK investment company, i was required to be trained fully on money laundering, so that i could spot potential suspect transactions. The flip side is that i know a lot about it, and interestingly, how to actually do it. Just dont have the balls to get involved in it - however it does fascinate me. 8)

[tricky]

People will be killed over this - that goes with out saying. Even if they DO get away with it, they need to be constantly looking over their shoulder for the remainder of their lives. They cant spend the money in big whacks - i.e going out and buying that Farrari Enzo they've always wanted etc. Chances are the funds are destined for some terrorist organisation. For example - Google: "Mohammed Derbah"... massive money launderer and fraudster.. associated with Hizbollah and Amal.


So taking this in to account, (paying special attention to the bold bits) do you still stand by your original "way to go lads" comment ?

[Anonymous]

Tough question.

Obviously i condone terrorism in all way shapes and forms.

However the actual pulling off of the heist is spectacular - and way to go to the lads who did it in that sense, where the money is destined for in the long run is hard to say - and like i say, if it IS headed to terrorist organisations, then i wont be saying way to go to that.

In short, my comment of "way to go" was directed at the actual people who performed the operation of the heist, and not where the funds are being directed to.

[jonboy]

I say good luck to them

Are you truly serious? :shock:

No one got hurt - physically anyway.

So mental anguish that lasts a lifetime is okay then is it?

They may appear to be scumbags etc

This is correct, you got one thing right.

I honestly find your comments both naïve and juvenile.


.

[tricky]

Tough question.

Obviously i condone terrorism in all way shapes and forms.

However the actual pulling off of the heist is spectacular - and way to go to the lads who did it in that sense, where the money is destined for in the long run is hard to say - and like i say, if it IS headed to terrorist organisations, then i wont be saying way to go to that.

In short, my comment of "way to go" was directed at the actual people who performed the operation of the heist, and not where the funds are being directed to.

I sure you ment you don't condone terrorism
Surly the lads that pulled off the raid would have some idea of where the money is destined or what the implications of laundering might be. Wherever this money is going, its probably not going to buy a minibus to takes orphans on picnics is it ?

So by stealing the money in the first place they are inciting terrorism or somthing just as bad.

[Last Action Pimp]

i think. well done to them for pulling it off but i would like to see them get caught, they didn't harm anyone and their plan was clever and simple. but we dont know what the money is for, personal use or to fund more 9/11 & 7/7's.

i hope they get caught and the money returned but well done for pullling it off

[jambo]

I really do get fed up with the terrorism vein at the moment :evil:

People rob money because they're greedy, done it since time began.. Just because there'sa big crime does not mean that a terrorist cell is going to benefit. What are the chances this is a bunch of blokes are going to split the money and try to live the comfey life in a few years after it's all blown over?

Osma bin laden is not at the centre of everything bad, if George Bush and Tony Blair want to blame him for everything from Terrorist attacks, to pirated music, illigal software, prostitution, and the state of the bus service and road network that's their call (and it's always nice to have someone to point at when things aren't going well). We should not all be jumping lemming like to their rally call. All crime does not subsidise the hijacking of aircraft and killing of kids!

Anyone else remember seeing programs about the great train robbery? A bunch of people decided to get rich, and they did it without helping the Soviet Empire weaken the capitalist democrcies! so why the sudden rush to blame terrorists for everything?

</Rant> :roll:

[Shinsei Jutsu]

So it was real! I heard this on the news this morning but was so tired I thought I was dreaming it all!
Thank you for seperating reality and my dream world for me.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

So where does one buy a money hoist? :lol:

[tricky]

I really do get fed up with the terrorism vein at the moment:evil:

I agree with what you said, I did not suggest the money was being used for terrorism, just playing devils advocate to try and make a point.

Have you ever seen "The League of Gentlemen" (the film with Jack Hawkins) where they pull off a robbery in a way that people will think its the IRA ?

[Anonymous]

I really do get fed up with the terrorism vein at the moment :evil:

People rob money because they're greedy, done it since time began.. Just because there'sa big crime does not mean that a terrorist cell is going to benefit. What are the chances this is a bunch of blokes are going to split the money and try to live the comfey life in a few years after it's all blown over?

Osma bin laden is not at the centre of everything bad, if George Bush and Tony Blair want to blame him for everything from Terrorist attacks, to pirated music, illigal software, prostitution, and the state of the bus service and road network that's their call (and it's always nice to have someone to point at when things aren't going well). We should not all be jumping lemming like to their rally call. All crime does not subsidise the hijacking of aircraft and killing of kids!

Anyone else remember seeing programs about the great train robbery? A bunch of people decided to get rich, and they did it without helping the Soviet Empire weaken the capitalist democrcies! so why the sudden rush to blame terrorists for everything?

</Rant> :roll:

I think if you look into the situation in deeper context, you will see its all connected.

There are only 13 or 14 people in the UK who can pull a heist of this severity off.

Mohammed Derbah is one such person (hes currently i tenerife i beleive), if you go to google and look up his name, you will see that he has association with Hizbollah and Amal - major terrorist organisations. Not on the same scale of Ladan etc, but terrorist groups non the less.

When it comes to money laundering, there are two main beneficiary groups - Terrorism, and Drugs.

Drug money is created from selling the stuff down the supply/demand chain - the funds are then laundered so that the people at the top of the chain can use it.

Terrorist money is created from massive heists (such as this one) and then laundered so that tracing it is difficult, and then used for activities.


The people who executed this heist, are probably on a %age of the money they took, but wont be taking the money for their own gain - its too larger a sum for that.

In answer to tricky's comment about the people who carried out the heist knowing where the money is destined for. They probably have some idea the NATURE of where its destined for. But not the people who are carrying it out.

They will be performing a change of hands in some location in the next few days where they will receive their cut of the proceeds, together with a stark warning that if they speak to anyone or "open their arses" they and their families will be getting well aquainted with the wildlife at the bottom of their local river or lake.

The motiviating factor behind the people who did this will be the money, they want their cut of the proceeds - and they are not bothered about what the remainder of the funds end up being used for.

In response to those comments above underlined and in bold - the chances of this are NIL. £40M (assuming it is as high as that) is a heck of a lot to hide until it blows over. So they need to break it down and make it usable currency - which means laundering it. Which isnt easy when you got that much cash. Also it was a mixture of new and used notes which were taken - the new notes DEFINATELY have to be laundered as they can be traced. The old notes are relatively untraceable. All this, and more - points to organised crime - which isnt "a bunch of blokes who decided to get rich and lead the comfy life when its all blown over".

In reponse to jonboys comments about my views being naive and juvenile:

Hardly jonboy. Id just say well educated and qualified. 2.5 years handling investments for the UK's largest investment company together with training on the subject gives me a good understanding of the way it works and the risks people take.

As for mental anquish - read my other comments... they will get over this, it will take time, and a lot of councelling for sure - but they will get over it.

Its quite alright to paint them with the "scumbag" brush, but in reality, you dont know who they are, or the circumstances which brought them into this crime.

Would you rather they be mugging old women on the high street with knives for their pensions? Or attacking you on a weekend for your wallet?

What they did, I wont be out of pocket as a result. So i'd rather them be performing this crime, than mugging me, my family or friends.

They arent rapists, muggers, or cold blooded murderers. There is a hierarchy in the criminal world, and the people who carried out this taking, are amongst the top of that "family tree".

[jambo]

GYND:
I have to admit I haven't got a background in finance (or bank robbery / security) so can only say what I think, but one assumes if there are only 14 people who could do this, the police should have them by ooooh 4pm?

Not being associated with any crime lords I can only give my opinion, which of course everyone is entitled to.

[Supervox]

I say good luck to them . . .

. . . way to go lads.



YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS ??!!

Perhaps if had been YOUR family held at gunpoint & threatened you might feel differently ??

All I can say is GROW UP you silly little boy !! :x

[Scoobs]

GYND:
I have to admit I haven't got a background in finance (or bank robbery / security) so can only say what I think, but one assumes if there are only 14 people who could do this, the police should have them by ooooh 4pm?

Not being associated with any crime lords I can only give my opinion, which of course everyone is entitled to.

13 now Jambo. One of them is in Tenerife. :wink: :lol:

[jonboy]

In reponse to jonboys comments about my views being naive and juvenile:

Hardly jonboy. Id just say well educated and qualified.

I'm not convinced.

2.5 years handling investments for the UK's largest investment company together with training on the subject gives me a good understanding of the way it works and the risks people take.

What a load of old tosh.

As for mental anquish - read my other comments... they will get over this, it will take time, and a lot of councelling for sure - but they will get over it.

Again, what a load of old tosh, you're naivity is certainly showing now.

Its quite alright to paint them with the "scumbag" brush, but in reality, you dont know who they are, or the circumstances which brought them into this crime.

Christ on a bicycle, perhaps we should just gently slap them on the wrists when they're caught eh? :roll:


.

[tricky]

Its all well and good saying "very well planned" " that took some balls" etc etc

You could make those same comments about 9/11
Just a thought

[Anonymous]

GYND:
I have to admit I haven't got a background in finance (or bank robbery / security) so can only say what I think, but one assumes if there are only 14 people who could do this, the police should have them by ooooh 4pm?

Not being associated with any crime lords I can only give my opinion, which of course everyone is entitled to.

13 now Jambo. One of them is in Tenerife. :wink: :lol:

http://www.crimeshare.net/54.html

click the link. when it loads: ctrl - F5 type in YORK.

Read.
:roll:

[Anonymous]

Well fair enough.

I know what i know. If you want to think that, you're more than welcome to your opinion like Jambo has already suggested.

However, when you honestly dont know what you are talking about, i would ensure you get your facts correct before you start saying other people are talking rubbish.

You may actually learn something then. :roll:

[dmracing]

Good on them for pulling it off and not hurting anyone. :wink:

£40 million is alot to me, but its peanuts compared to how much the government steals off us just for making a living. They are just a bunch of tea leafs who sit in a room causing rows over expensive useless crap! They tell us to stop gangwars and fighting, but that is exaxtly what they do everysingle day!! :shock:

Atleast the £40mill stolen will be put to good use... Cars, Women, Booze... hang on... thats what the goverment spends all of our money on! :evil:

[Anonymous]

Well fair enough.

I know what i know. If you want to think that, you're more than welcome to your opinion like Jambo has already suggested.

However, when you honestly dont know what you are talking about, i would ensure you get your facts correct before you start saying other people are talking rubbish.

You may actually learn something then. :roll:

GYKD, you DON'T know what you're talking about, that much is VERY obvious!

But, I don't care because I know that, any pretty much everyone else with a few brain cells can sense it too.

Oh and, did you reconsider your previous post then?

The one that disapeared, a minute ago?

yeah i did reconsider - remembered its U rated site - so thought i'd re-word it more appropriately.

If you dont think i know what im talking about - fair enough. I KNOW otherwise.

Did you check out the site that i mentioned 3 posts prior to this one? Interesting about york dont you think? :wink:

[Anonymous]

FYI...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4742362.stm

:wink:

Laundering - what i was talking about.

Know **** do I!?

:roll:

[Viney]

says money laundering expert Jeffrey Robinson.
Does this mean that hes an expert in doing it, or an expert in how people do it? :lol:

[jonboy]

Know sh*t do I!?

Yup.


.

[Anonymous]

Know sh*t do I!?

Yup.


.

So now whos naive?

Because i knew what the various options open to the people who did this are?

Because i know how launderings done?

Because i was trained in it in order to be able to spot suspicious transactions (or as the report refers to them SARs - suspicions activities report)?

Because i knew they couldnt just spend the money and had to get it out of the country in order to launder it?

At which point did i become naive? I think any one who suspects this ISNT connected to terrorism of some description is the Naive one.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Know sh*t do I!?

Yup.


.

So now whos naive?

Well they have to launder the money whether its for terrorism, drugs, or a big night out. What's your point?

[jonboy]

Know sh*t do I!?

Yup.


.

So now whos naive?

It's still you, nothing's changed.

Oh BTW you missed out the apostrophe, not something I would normally comment upon, but as you consider yourself so educated...


.

[Anonymous]

Know sh*t do I!?

Yup.


.

So now whos naive?

Well they have to launder the money whether its for terrorism, drugs, or a big night out. What's your point?

No - they only have to launder the new notes. The old notes can be passed of easily enough.

[Anonymous]

I cant understand why you feel the need to get all "higher than thou" on me just because i know how it works?

I wasnt the only one who said "good on you lads!" for pulling this off - so it cant be because of that.

The only reason i can think of is because i have knowledge in it?

Explain?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Know sh*t do I!?

Yup.


.

So now whos naive?

Well they have to launder the money whether its for terrorism, drugs, or a big night out. What's your point?

No - they only have to launder the new notes. The old notes can be passed of easily enough.

Ok, so why does that make them drug dealing terrorists?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

8)

[Anonymous]

Know sh*t do I!?

Yup.


.

So now whos naive?

Well they have to launder the money whether its for terrorism, drugs, or a big night out. What's your point?

No - they only have to launder the new notes. The old notes can be passed of easily enough.

Ok, so why does that make them drug dealing terrorists?

I didnt say they were drug dealing terrorists.

I said that there will most likely be some terrorist group associated to this heist.

Mohammed Derbah who is in assocaition with Hizbollah - his right hand man was a guy called John Palmer. Who has just got out of doing time - for money laundering and time share scams. John Palmer gave an alibie to Kenneth Noye - the man who was charged with the M25 road rage murder of the 21yo motorist years ago. John Palmer is rumoured to now be going into business against his old friend Derbah.. with hizbollah.

Its all connected. Based on that scenario, and others i know of - it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if this is connected to a terrorist organisation - whats more, ill put money on the fact that the police are already investigating any connection too.

[northwind]

Might come as a shock to some people, but GYKD knows of what he speaks. I don't totally agree with his conclusions but what he's described is one of the most likely scenarios for the robbery. The chance of this being a group of stereotyped crims from the Sweeney turning over a bank, or some romanticised Ronnie Biggs deal, are slim to none.

A raid like this was carried out by seriously organised criminals- anyone can steal money, but relatively few people can do anything with it afterwards. I've never dealt with a 40M theft, but even the small scale crimes usually get picked up not as a result of the crime, but as a result of integrating the funds into the white economy. Muiltiply that by 4000 and you might see what the problem is. You can't easily get £40M in used notes out of the country!

If you can, then you're seriously connected. And in most cases, that sort of large scale crime does come with terrorist connections- though not neccesarily terrorist sympathisers or terrorists themselves, they have shared interests- making money (your career criminal just wants the money, your terrorist wants it as a means to an end.)

If you look at the IRA, for instance, they're known as a terrorist organisation, but people forget that they're also a massive organised crime network, involved in drug smuggling, money laundering, and, funnily enough, theft at all levels. In fact, these days they're a criminal network first, terrorists second.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Northwind.

[jonboy]

Northwind has shed loads of common sense, you on the other hand...


.

[Anonymous]

Northwind has shed loads of common sense, you on the other hand...


.

Well thats open to debate jonboy - the fact of the matter is you all thought i was talking utter ****e, when in fact - i knew i wasnt - and has been proved by northwind.

So - you were saying - whos naive? :roll:

[hall13uk]

think of the bikes you could buy :twisted:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Northwind has shed loads of common sense, you on the other hand...


.

Well thats open to debate jonboy - the fact of the matter is you all thought i was talking utter sh*te, when in fact - i knew i wasnt - and has been proved by northwind.

So - you were saying - whos naive? :roll:

He didnt prove anything. he just opened up the realms of possibility that you werent talking 100% ********. Maybe 90% :lol:

Fact is that attacks like 9/11 and 7/7 were funded on small budgets. Huge sums of money for terrorist activities are by no means essential.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

think of the bikes you could buy :twisted:

Finally, some sense in this thread... :lol: :wink:

Agreed! And why not a race track to go with it?!

[Anonymous]

Northwind has shed loads of common sense, you on the other hand...


.

Well thats open to debate jonboy - the fact of the matter is you all thought i was talking utter sh*te, when in fact - i knew i wasnt - and has been proved by northwind.

So - you were saying - whos naive? :roll:

He didnt prove anything. he just opened up the realms of possibility that you werent talking 100% ********. Maybe 90% :lol:

Fact is that attacks like 9/11 and 7/7 were funded on small budgets. Huge sums of money for terrorist activities are by no means essential.

Are you that naive to beleive that terrorist organisations only need funds to finance one particular strike? They need other things as well. Terrorism on that scale is a HUGELY expensive operation. Do you have any idea how many bank accounts, investment accounts etc were frozen by the authorities following 9/11 and what the sums contained within totalled up to?

Terrorism on a global scale costs MILLIONS.

[keithd]

think of the bikes you could buy :twisted:

Finally, some sense in this thread... :lol: :wink:

I'd buy an SV.... :D

[tricky]

I'm suprised the media haven't made the terrorist link, As jambo said earlier they seem to link it to everything else.

BBC did say Kent Police where talking to police in Northen Ieland

[jambo]

This is gonna be a bit of a "suck it and see job" I never claimed that it was a job put together by a band of mates looking like Micheal Caine and the others, and that the money would be kept under their beds, I know nothing about money laundering but assume at this level you need the sort of people that don't advertise in the yelow pages....

Will be intresed to see if someone gets nabbed for this any time soon :wink:

[northwind]

Northwind has shed loads of common sense

My mum would tell you otherwise.

[hall13uk]

think of the bikes you could buy :twisted:

Finally, some sense in this thread... :lol: :wink:

Agreed! And why not a race track to go with it?!

:wink: oooo yesss i would buy brands, such a great track 8), soo err when do u eckon coombest will be free :wink:

[fizzwheel]

I remember a similar robbery, I think it was the brinks matt or whatever it was, where they worked out what numbers the notes had on them and then tracked down the criminals using this information, they looked at where an when the notes were being spent ?

Couldnt the police do the same this time or wont it work ?

( please excuse me if I dont know what I'm talking about )

[Jp]

I remember a similar robbery, I think it was the brinks matt or whatever it was, where they worked out what numbers the notes had on them and then tracked down the criminals using this information, they looked at where an when the notes were being spent ?

Couldnt the police do the same this time or wont it work ?

( please excuse me if I dont know what I'm talking about )


Theres a difficult taks in tracking it due to the timescale of thing, think about when a note goes into a till, in a big company it will go into an on site safe, be counted at the ened of the day, bagged up put back into a bigger safe, securicor come and pick it up in the morning, they get it to thier destination then the police get hold of it.

Hopefully it wouldnt be that difficult for them, but i doubt you could track it using this method.

I dont know what everyone's problem is with saying good on em and all that, they are complete scum, you hear of a big heist and you think of hollywood,cheeky chaps taking aload of cash and smiling about it, making the odd joke, hardly gonna be like that is?

[Anonymous]

I remember a similar robbery, I think it was the brinks matt or whatever it was, where they worked out what numbers the notes had on them and then tracked down the criminals using this information, they looked at where an when the notes were being spent ?

Couldnt the police do the same this time or wont it work ?

( please excuse me if I dont know what I'm talking about )

Yes and No.

The new notes can be tracked - the serial numbers of these notes would have been recorded ready for their dispatching - thus the need to be seriously connected to get rid of this large sum of money in marked notes.

Its the old notes which are the trouble - they wont be recorded and as such are relatively easy to get rid of (but not in large numbers - otherwise you appear on the SAR - suspicious activity report). Thus the need to get out of the UK to less regulated countries to start the laundering process.

The brinks matt was gold bullion and diamonds - John Palmer was one such member who helped smelt the gold down into lower grade gold before selling it on for cash, and then laundering the cash.

BTW - Ever had a phone call from a credit card issuer asking if you can confirm some activity on your account? Or the bank ring you up asking to double check a large widthdrawl from your account - this comes from the SAR.

[Foey]

I remember a similar robbery, I think it was the brinks matt or whatever it was, where they worked out what numbers the notes had on them and then tracked down the criminals using this information, they looked at where an when the notes were being spent ?

Couldnt the police do the same this time or wont it work ?

( please excuse me if I dont know what I'm talking about )




No it won't work this time because i'm spreading my spending a bit more.



DOH!!! #-o

[northwind]

Apart from the physical content of teh theft, I suppose this is quite similiar to Brinks Mat- from what I recall anyway. They expected to find cash in that case too. The company my dad worked for at the time insured the goods, you can imagine how pleased they were...

[hall13uk]

one thing that bugs me is, why was so much money at that site, mean it does not seem that secure :?

[Anonymous]

They forced the manager they kidnapped to let them into the site, otherwise they'd have blown his, and his families, brains out.

[northwind]

It might not seem all that secure... It's all about shrinkages though. The same logic applies in retail vs shoplifters even. There's a point at which it's more economic to be robbed than it is to prevent the robbery- especially when you're insured.

Say you're an armoured car company, Brinks are a handy example. You can spend 100 million to make all your cars as secure as possible- but that only reduces the risk so far. You do the maths and decide at which point the cost of reducing the risk becomes greater than the cost of the risk.

Look at retail banking- go into a Bank of Scotland north of the border, or a modern halifax, and check out the security. No loose notes, small cash drawers, all the case in the open areas is in automated cash dispensers and drop safes. The Bank's always been relatively risk averse. Then, go into a Clydesdale bank- big glass screens, but the cash is just in drawers or boxes, so if the security's breached there's no secondary defence. Clydesdale put the cost of security below the cost of a raid.

Result? Nobody robs Banks of Scotland. If they do, they get a few grand at most, unless they take the whole branch apart, which takes time, organisation and probably a high level of violence. SO why bother, when you can take a Clydesdale much easier?

But... The Bank spends more on the primary security methods than the Clydesdale loses to bank theft. Financially, we come out behind.

[Biker Biggles]

I want to make sure I own the film rights to this.I can see the plot now----A group of loveable East End rogues decide to do one more big one before they retire----bla bla bla.Hollywood blockbuster for sure.I'll get John McVicar to write it.Maybe not,perhaps he actually did it. :lol:

[Saint Matt]

Fair play to them, they got balls!

[northwind]

Yup... Having been the opposition, I can't help but admire a well-executed or original fraud or theft. I don't respect it, or wish to emulate it, but the effort, intelligence, and skill- not to mention bravado or bravery, whatever you want to call it- can impress. But it's a grudging admiration.

But at the same time... As you go up the chain, the brains behind particularily clever frauds, or long-term money laundering campaigns, are genuinely extremely intelligent and perceptive professionals. They could probably succeed at anything they wanted to do. 9/10 times, if a large money laundering ring is cracked, it's because at the integration level they're forced to use street sweepings, and they make mistakes that can lead back.

[amarko5]

It takes no balls to shove a gun to a 7 year old kids head and tell the father you will kill him :?

no admiration for a few scumbags who watch a guy drive home then threaten his and his families life.

you really are deluded if you think there is any balls or brains in this raid.

ff's any 10 year old could have planned what they did . it's not rocket science "is it" :?:

[The Basket]

Quite so.

All they deserve is jail.

[pashda]

£40 million - well thats another £1 each we'll have to find next year - and all the other costs like the investigation. One way or another its each of us that will end up paying it back, either through insurnace, increased shop charges, reduced pension fund, taxes to fund the police information. All in all I reckon the scumbags have probably robbed me of a pint.

[Anonymous]

It takes no balls to shove a gun to a 7 year old kids head and tell the father you will kill him :?

no admiration for a few scumbags who watch a guy drive home then threaten his and his families life.

you really are deluded if you think there is any balls or brains in this raid.

ff's any 10 year old could have planned what they did . it's not rocket science "is it" :?:

Edit: Deleted by myself as its totally unappropriate.

Sorry to anyone offended.

[Tara]

Oi Viney they've arrested someone trying to open a bank account with 6K in Bromley something you want to tell us :wink: :lol:

[Anonymous]

Oi Viney they've arrested someone trying to open a bank account with 6K in Bromley something you want to tell us :wink: :lol:

6K.......... in Bromley :shock: :shock: :wink:

[Sid Squid]

It's a fair cop guv etc etc

Anyone in Bromley with as much as a twenty has got to be a bit sus.

[fizzwheel]

It takes no balls to shove a gun to a 7 year old kids head and tell the father you will kill him :?

no admiration for a few scumbags who watch a guy drive home then threaten his and his families life.

you really are deluded if you think there is any balls or brains in this raid.

ff's any 10 year old could have planned what they did . it's not rocket science "is it" :?:

FFS you are stupid arent you!

To think that it takes "no balls or brains" to pull of a raid of this complexity, you really are living with your f*cking head in the sand!

To pull this job off would have taken months off careful maticulous planning, recon and attention. Any simple mistake or failure to devote attention to detail would have resulted in them being found out - simple things like using a PAYG phone as opposed to a contract phone, would have had them selves busted by the law.

Any communications between the group would have been done in coding, to disguise the fact and target they were planning. If they didnt, the police would have cracked this ring WAY before they attacked.

To beleive that this takes no skill whatsoever, is to delude yourself of the cold harsh reality of life.

It may take minimal balls to put a gun to a kids head and threaten to kill him, but to follow the plan through with military like precision, takes a special type of person - one of which isnt found drinking in your local pub bragging about it. They are highly skilled, educated people.

Ok, the people on the ground may not be the sharpest tool in the box, but the people behind it, are highly skilled professionally trained people who have studied money laundering, law and finance at the highest of levels.

Like i said, if you GENUINELY beleive otherwise, you sir, are on stupid mother f*cking person with your head firmly in the p*ss soaked sand.

Joe this post is totally out of order and also IMHO uncalled for. One of the rules of the forum is "no personal abuse" You have IMHO now crossed the line in this thread a couple of times and in this case especially its uncalled for. Even if you dont agree you must respect somebody elses opinion.

I would normally say this over PM but if you feel its acceptable to behave like this then I feel its acceptable to correct you in public. I have higlighted the comments in your above post that I feel are uncalled for an unwarranted.

I think that an apology is in order.

Fizz

[tricky]

I still think these people are scumbags.
I don't care how clever they are or how well planned this raid was.

Kidnapping and threatening to kill children cannot be justified by any means.
I don't know where this money is destined, but its probably going to be used for nefarious purposes.

Its a romantic ideal, the rough diamond pulls off the big blag.
This is not the Italian Job, like GYKD said earlier people will die because of this.

Like I said, scumbags.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

It's a fair cop guv etc etc

Anyone in Bromley with as much as a twenty has got to be a bit sus.

8-[

[hall13uk]

soo they have caught 3, one a women went into a bank & tried to disposit a large sum of money, the teller got suspicious when they saw the notes had a tunbridge label still on. how u stupid can u get, by the way imo pure scum

[tricky]

soo they have caught 3, one a women went into a bank & tried to disposit a large sum of money, the teller got suspicious when they saw the notes had a tunbridge label still on. how u stupid can u get, by the way imo pure scum

:D DO'H!

highly skilled professionally trained people who have studied money laundering, law and finance at the highest of levels ?

Sorry GYKD, just kidding ! :D

[Ed]

I haven't read the entire thread, only this page... and so might have missed the point...

...but I have to work for a living, I hate thieves. There's nothing romantic about kidnap, extortion, and robbery. Especially when it involves young kids.

[Anonymous]

Joe this post is totally out of order and also IMHO uncalled for. One of the rules of the forum is "no personal abuse" You have IMHO now crossed the line in this thread a couple of times and in this case especially its uncalled for. Even if you dont agree you must respect somebody elses opinion.

I would normally say this over PM but if you feel its acceptable to behave like this then I feel its acceptable to correct you in public. I have higlighted the comments in your above post that I feel are uncalled for an unwarranted.

I think that an apology is in order.

Fizz

You are absolutely right.

I wish to apologise to anyone who took offense at my post - it was uncalled for, unwarrented, and the language used was totally unacceptable.

By means of explanation not excuse, id come back from the pub after drinking all night from 5.30pm, i read the comment above mine, and just wrote the first thing which came into my head - giving no regard to the forums rules.

Im sorry if anyone took offence, i can assure you, absolutely none was intended.

Humbly,

Joe.

[Sudoxe]

To think that it takes "no balls or brains" to pull of a raid of this complexity, you really are living with your f*cking head in the sand!

<snip>

Ok, the people on the ground may not be the sharpest tool in the box, but the people behind it, are highly skilled professionally trained people who have studied money laundering, law and finance at the highest of levels.


Yep, the work of a highly skilled professionally trained person who has studied money laundering, law and finance at the highest of levels.....

...Takeing £6000 into a building scocitery in Bromley with bands arround the notes saying "Tunbridge" :roll:

[Sudoxe]

It's a fair cop guv etc etc

Anyone in Bromley with as much as a twenty has got to be a bit sus.

8-[
Argh! Thats me rumbled then. :lol:

[hall13uk]

come on these people are scum,

to kidnap a mother & child then tell the father they are going to kill them if he does not do as they wish, the lowest of the low. anyone can point a gun to someones head, you don't need balls or half an ounce of grey matter.

then to try & open an account with 6k, with labels saying tunbridge :roll: errrr D'oh

[Anonymous]

then to try & open an account with 6k, with labels saying tunbridge :roll: errrr D'oh

Yeah ill hand you that one. That was pretty brain dead to do that.

The only thing i can suggest is that:

1) someone found some and tried to cash it.
2) its a smoke screen? Perhaps put some cash in to cause distraction - use the time bought to get the remained out of the country?

just suggestions - but it certainly seems that the woman who tried to open the account was definately NOT the brightest crayon in the box.

[Viney]

Oi Viney they've arrested someone trying to open a bank account with 6K in Bromley something you want to tell us :wink: :lol:
Yeah. It was the Portman BS next to where my mum works....over a fag, they she disscussed it with one of the bank workers. Apprently, 2 people, 1 man and one woman tried to open an account using a bundle of 6k in sequential bills, and get this, still bound with a Securitas Tonbridge band on it!!

Organised crime....er, dont think so! :lol:

Make of that what you will.

[Anonymous]

May have just been a bundle that they found.

I seriously doubt that this robbery was pulled off by a bunch of mates who thought one night in the local that they'd just "pull off a small job, wait till it blew over and then live the nice life".

Or like i sugggested before. May be a smoke screen.

Give 6k to some stupid people, tell them they can open an account and the cash is theres... so off they trundle, get them selves nicked.... job done - the media and police focus is momentarily detracted from the real bulk of the cash.

[Viney]

May have just been a bundle that they found.

I seriously doubt that this robbery was pulled off by a bunch of mates who thought one night in the local that they'd just "pull off a small job, wait till it blew over and then live the nice life".

Or like i sugggested before. May be a smoke screen.

Give 6k to some stupid people, tell them they can open an account and the cash is theres... so off they trundle, get them selves nicked.... job done - the media and police focus is momentarily detracted from the real bulk of the cash.

Hmmmm, maybe, maybe not. Personaly dude, im not really fussed either way. All i need to know is what im going to do with the rest. I cant fit it all in my shed!

[fizzwheel]

I cant fit it all in my shed!

Viney, I've got some room in my garage if you want to stash some in there ? :wink: :lol:

[sharriso74]

May have just been a bundle that they found.

I seriously doubt that this robbery was pulled off by a bunch of mates who thought one night in the local that they'd just "pull off a small job, wait till it blew over and then live the nice life".

Or like i sugggested before. May be a smoke screen.

Give 6k to some stupid people, tell them they can open an account and the cash is theres... so off they trundle, get them selves nicked.... job done - the media and police focus is momentarily detracted from the real bulk of the cash.

Hmmmm, maybe, maybe not. Personaly dude, im not really fussed either way. All i need to know is what im going to do with the rest. I cant fit it all in my shed!

You can borrow my gargage if you want?

[Viney]

Its true. you see. When you have money, you get instant friends ;)

*Some on its way fizz*

[fizzwheel]

Its true. you see. When you have money, you get instant friends ;)

*Some on its way fizz*

Nice one 8) :lol:

[Jelster]

Its true. you see. When you have money, you get instant friends ;)

*Some on its way fizz*

Nice one 8) :lol:

It's not his fault he's the IB police..... Nobody told him that "Billy no mates" status comes as standard :lol:

.

[amarko5]

It takes no balls to shove a gun to a 7 year old kids head and tell the father you will kill him :?

no admiration for a few scumbags who watch a guy drive home then threaten his and his families life.

you really are deluded if you think there is any balls or brains in this raid.

ff's any 10 year old could have planned what they did . it's not rocket science "is it" :?:

Edit: Deleted by myself as its totally unappropriate.

Sorry to anyone offended.

anytime you want to meet me just say :wink: or turn up on a rideout .

then we will see who has his head in the sand :P

[northwind]

you really are deluded if you think there is any balls or brains in this raid.

ff's any 10 year old could have planned what they did . it's not rocket science "is it" :?:

Sorry, but this is ignorant nonsense. The planning and preperation are phenomenally difficult to get right. You're probably thinking "All you have to do is kidnap a keyholder" or similiar. How do you know the person you go for has the right access? How do you know what the alarms are? The failsafes? Any ommission procedures (ie, unneccesary steps in the opening procedures that activcate alarms if they're missed). The staff cycles, fund levels... Even the targetting. Not all security warehouses are worth hitting.

So you get the information. How do you do it without tipping off the people involved? You can't just sidle up to someone and say "Psst, how long do you have between entering the building and disabling the alarm?"

What secondary devices are there? Marked notes? Dye packs? Time locks? Time cycles for opening? These are the obvious ones, there's hundreds of other methods that I'm not even going to mention, because a lot of them work because they're not well known.

If you can gather all of that information, without ever revealing yourself, in the neccesary timescales before they change, without exposing yourself to unneccesary risks, you're in a tiny minority. That's where the respect comes from.

Where it falls down, as a lot of these things do, is that the people who do the actual breakin are very rarely the people who organise and plan it. It's teh same with money laundering- with a good money laundering structure, you just don't break it unless they screw up. But because it's hard to recruit staff for a criminal scheme- you can't advertise in the Guardian- you often end up with rather low-quality employess deploying a high-level plan. That's where you get cretins paying in large volumes of cash.

Or, possibly it's as GYKD says- this does happen. The IRA did it after their big bank robbery- they deliberately circulated marked notes to tie up resources.

[Biker Biggles]

Northwind---where are you hiding the money?Not in GYKD's house is it? :lol: :lol:
As for the couple who deposited the £6000 they have been questioned and released on police bail,which suggests that they are not members of the raid gang to me.

[northwind]

That it does.

Where am I hiding the money? tht'd be telling but hypothetically... If I was, I'd never be caught, count on that. But then, I'd probably dispose of 75% of it (burn it most likely, or other untracable disposal methods) and slowly slip whatever else I could into the white economy over the course of about 70 years. That's what you do, if you don't want to get caught- as soon as anyone else knows about it, it's not a secret.

Alternatively, I do know of a way out of the country with no customs or passport control. But I'd not be able to take my bike ;)

[skidmarx]

sorry....all been said I know but, who cares about the technicalities of what you do when you get the money? The point here is that a group of people have no regard for anybody other than themselves. I find it staggering that anybody would admit a sneaking respect for these people. The comments made about how people can get over experiences like this through therapy are utter nonsense, they can't. Maybe with luck they will learn to live with it, but the real point is why should they!
These robbers are not 'educated or clever', they may be ruthless and cunning, but these are very different things.
I hope they catch them and show them to be the heartless selfish fools they clearly are.
Anyway I'd buy Brands Hatch and close it to everyone but me and people that don't do stuff like that or admire it...

[northwind]

No, they're extremely clever. You just don't seem to understand the complexity of what they do.

Put it this way. If you had any actual experience of working against financial fraudsters of any description, you can't really fail to have some respect for them. You either have to accept that they're extremely clever, as well as cunning and well-informed, or you have to believe that you and everyone else in the industry is a cretin- otherwise, why are they so difficult to beat?

I think maybe people are confusing admiration and respect. respect doesn't imply admiration. You can respect someone's competence without having any admiration for them. I can respect someone who can kick a leather balloon into the back of a net, but I don't admire it. And I can respect someone who can find ways to beat the UK banking sstem, which is one of the most developed and secure in the world, but I don't admire them.

If you want to look at it a different way, you respect a pit-bull terrier because you know it can do you real damage. You don't admire it for how effectively it bites you.

[amarko5]

you really are deluded if you think there is any balls or brains in this raid.

ff's any 10 year old could have planned what they did . it's not rocket science "is it" :?:

Sorry, but this is ignorant nonsense. The planning and preperation are phenomenally difficult to get right. You're probably thinking "All you have to do is kidnap a keyholder" or similiar. How do you know the person you go for has the right access? How do you know what the alarms are? The failsafes? Any ommission procedures (ie, unneccesary steps in the opening procedures that activcate alarms if they're missed). The staff cycles, fund levels... Even the targetting. Not all security warehouses are worth hitting.

So you get the information. How do you do it without tipping off the people involved? You can't just sidle up to someone and say "Psst, how long do you have between entering the building and disabling the alarm?"

What secondary devices are there? Marked notes? Dye packs? Time locks? Time cycles for opening? These are the obvious ones, there's hundreds of other methods that I'm not even going to mention, because a lot of them work because they're not well known.

If you can gather all of that information, without ever revealing yourself, in the neccesary timescales before they change, without exposing yourself to unneccesary risks, you're in a tiny minority. That's where the respect comes from.

Where it falls down, as a lot of these things do, is that the people who do the actual breakin are very rarely the people who organise and plan it. It's teh same with money laundering- with a good money laundering structure, you just don't break it unless they screw up. But because it's hard to recruit staff for a criminal scheme- you can't advertise in the Guardian- you often end up with rather low-quality employess deploying a high-level plan. That's where you get cretins paying in large volumes of cash.

Or, possibly it's as GYKD says- this does happen. The IRA did it after their big bank robbery- they deliberately circulated marked notes to tie up resources.

Ohh grow up you and GYKD. you are living in cloud cuckoo land or do you dream of films like oceans eleven

these guys are crooks pure and simple and thugs with it.

do not try and call me ignorant or a M/ Fu$$er (BTW GYKD i have a long memory)

NORTHWIND i expected a little more from you. I thought you had half decent comments in other posts, but you too are glorifying thugs.

as i stated earlier it takes no brains or balls to threaten a 7 YEAR OLD child and an innocent woman with a handgun.

now if they had gone in when the place was closed defeating all alarms and silently opening the safe/ storage cages etc. whilst deactivating the CCTV and nobody knew anything for several hours I would have called them cleverer than your normal thug but they did not.

they took the easy option of finding out who the manager was (and following)

using some inside info (which will come out in the end)

and being down right nasty pieces of scum that need wiped off the face of the planet.

I guess you have yet to have children or maybe a wife (dunno your status) but i think you would find that your co-operation would be perfect and total if yours were threatened in such a way so don't give me all this crap about sequences / dye packs etc etc etc.

any former employee would know some (the inside person) and the manager would know the rest.

anyhow have it whatever way you boys want i call them Scum you seem to admire them , possibly it's a generation apart thing.

Nuff Said :wink:

[northwind]

Amarko, I respect what you're trying to say... But I'm not calling you ignorant to try to offend you. "Any 10 year old could do it". You're not even close. Ask any senior policeman if this was a simple crime of terror... Ask anyone involved in financial services security at any level. Actually, don't bother, you already ignored me.

I;m not going to discuss the duress methods any further, it's not public information. But I will say something that's absolutely fundamental, and that anyone with access to serious money knows- in the event that your family are threatened, the odds of keeping them safe are 10 times better if you can notify the police. In a panic, people can forget these things, but that's not something that even a crminal with the must rudimentary cunnign would depend upon.

I'm absolutely not glorifying crime... But you're living in cloud cuckoo land, to use your own rather insulting term, if you think that these crimes are done by mindless thugs who just know how to scare people. If that were the case, there'd be a lot more of these raids. There's a lot more mindless thugs than there are sociopathic, smart people, thank god. The combination of the wit to organise a crime on this level, and the sheer savagery and lack of basic morals ad humanity to do it, is fortunately vanishingly small. That's what makes these crimes so rare.

I've worked for 5 years in a major clearing bank... I've run a cash pool of up to 5 million pounds, I've been involved daily with fraud, theft and money laundering investigations, I've been a liason to the police after armed robberies, and I've interviewed fraud suspects. I've closed up a bank branch after it was robbed, and I've seen first hand the effect it had on my friend who worked there, and I've left that job because I was sick of the **** I was dealing with. You, my friend, have not.

And you read me far wrong if you think I admire these particular ****bags. There's a million miles between respecting the skill that goes into this, and having anything but contempt for them. I've probably got an even lower opinion of them than anyone who lacks this perspective, since I don't dismiss them as "mindless thugs". I know that a lot of them are smart, rational human beings making an immoral and sometimes sickening choice- when there's nothing to stop them from doing otherwise. You seem to think they're some lower breed, I know they're not- they choose to be ****bags, and that's far worse. Like I said earlier, anyone smart enough to integrate the funds from a major offence has the mind to do impressive things, they're just choosing to waste it on something squalid.

Sorry to go on... But you're really starting to get under my skin.

[amarko5]

Amarko, I respect what you're trying to say... But I'm not calling you ignorant to try to offend you. "Any 10 year old could do it". You're not even close. Ask any senior policeman if this was a simple crime of terror... Ask anyone involved in financial services security at any level. Actually, don't bother, you already ignored me.

I;m not going to discuss the duress methods any further, it's not public information. But I will say something that's absolutely fundamental, and that anyone with access to serious money knows- in the event that your family are threatened, the odds of keeping them safe are 10 times better if you can notify the police. In a panic, people can forget these things, but that's not something that even a crminal with the must rudimentary cunnign would depend upon.

I'm absolutely not glorifying crime... But you're living in cloud cuckoo land, to use your own rather insulting term, if you think that these crimes are done by mindless thugs who just know how to scare people. If that were the case, there'd be a lot more of these raids. There's a lot more mindless thugs than there are sociopathic, smart people, thank god. The combination of the wit to organise a crime on this level, and the sheer savagery and lack of basic morals ad humanity to do it, is fortunately vanishingly small. That's what makes these crimes so rare.

I've worked for 5 years in a major clearing bank... I've run a cash pool of up to 5 million pounds, I've been involved daily with fraud, theft and money laundering investigations, I've been a liason to the police after armed robberies, and I've interviewed fraud suspects. I've closed up a bank branch after it was robbed, and I've seen first hand the effect it had on my friend who worked there, and I've left that job because I was sick of the sh*t I was dealing with. You, my friend, have not.

And you read me far wrong if you think I admire these particular ****bags. There's a million miles between respecting the skill that goes into this, and having anything but contempt for them. I've probably got an even lower opinion of them than anyone who lacks this perspective, since I don't dismiss them as "mindless thugs". I know that a lot of them are smart, rational human beings making an immoral and sometimes sickening choice- when there's nothing to stop them from doing otherwise. You seem to think they're some lower breed, I know they're not- they choose to be ****bags, and that's far worse. Like I said earlier, anyone smart enough to integrate the funds from a major offence has the mind to do impressive things, they're just choosing to waste it on something squalid.

Sorry to go on... But you're really starting to get under my skin.

and you are likewise getting up my nose :P

your petty insults by calling me ignorant when you know jack **** about me, brought you down to the same level as GYND and GUY OWEN.

previous to that i had some respect for your comment's, and some useful info in the forums (even though at times your head appears rather too large for your shoulders).

maybe as the years go by you will learn a little restraint, and perhaps a little humility. or maybe indeed learn a little more about social skills.

I do hope this doesn't get under your skin, or you might start calling me other names like irritating :P :lol:

[northwind]

Mate... You're taking that the wrong way.

"Ignorant: unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge. "he was completely ignorant of the circumstances""

It's not meant as an insult. I just mean that you don't have some of the key facts that form my opinion, is all. Sorry if you took it wrongly.

[northwind]

While we're on the subject of me using words carelessly, I just noticed I said earlier on that I admited but didn't respect criminals, now I've said that I respect but don't admire them :roll: :oops: Hope my post above made clear where I'm coming from with it though, even if I was confusing myself ;)

[northwind]

Mmm, think I've missed a few as well though ;) Not been explaining myself very well.