Giving to the "less fortunate".

[Anonymous]

Ive been having a debate with some people on another forum about whats the norm when giving to people who are, shall we say "less fortunate".

I said that id buy a big issue from someone in the street every so often, and i would donate money to the likes of Registered charities, but would not under any circumstances give money to people just begging on the streets. This resulted in my getting massively flamed for being "cold hearted and harsh".

One person said that he would even give them money if they knocked on his door of his home, just begging. I couldnt beleive it, and said that here in York, if you did that you would be cruising for a bruising.

So it got me thinking... what are peoples views on here about giving their hard earned (or easily earned in SV650S_DUB's case) cash.

Do you give to big issue vendors? Do you drop a few pennies into the plastic cup of the guy you see on your walk to work? Have you ever had someone knock on your house door begging - if so, did you give? How much are you likely to donate in each situation?

Lets see what the "norm" is......

Discuss.

[sharriso74]

On occasion I've gone and bought an extra pack of sandwiches and given them food but if they're not registered I don't give money.

Apart from one guy who came up to us whilst we where having a beer and asked for a few quid for booze and weed. Had to admire his honesty

[timwilky]

I have a friend, who refuses to give to any charity. (age concern, cancer research etc.) The reason being that he views charity fund raisers as well meaning but doing their charities no favours. If the charity fund raisers did not exist, then the goverment would be forced to fund the work done by the charities.

Obviously there is not enough money to round and those that lacked funding have been forced to get out the begging bowls. This leave goverment free to fund minority or "undeserving" charities to the detriment of others.

As for street beggers, big issue salesmen etc. Get a job you idle scum, there is enough work out there if you can be bothered to get off your backsides. Don't give to them as you only fund their idle waste of a life. Why not make them walking organ donors at least that way their lives would not have been completely wasted, and give them the incentive to mend their ways PDQ.

[Anonymous]

I have a friend, who refuses to give to any charity. (age concern, cancer research etc.) The reason being that he views charity fund raisers as well meaning but doing their charities no favours. If the charity fund raisers did not exist, then the goverment would be forced to fund the work done by the charities.

Obviously there is not enough money to round and those that lacked funding have been forced to get out the begging bowls. This leave goverment free to fund minority or "undeserving" charities to the detriment of others.

As for street beggers, big issue salesmen etc. Get a job you idle scum, there is enough work out there if you can be bothered to get off your backsides. Don't give to them as you only fund their idle waste of a life. Why not make them walking organ donors at least that way their lives would not have been completely wasted, and give them the incentive to mend their ways PDQ.

Just to pour petrol onto fire.

The big issue salesmen are registered as being homeless, and they get a cut of all the ones they sell. So these guys are technically working and trying to get themselves out of their situation. The big issue producers provide training and councelling for their vendors too.

Dont you think that giving to these vendors or buying a mag off them is helping them?

[Scoobs]

I wouldn't give anything to beggers, but would be inclined to give to someone selling the Big Issue as they are at least doing something to earn cash (although I have only ever brought one issue).

I do give to charity, but under my terms. If there is a charity I believe in or have an afinity or empathy with I will give or even help fund raise through doing a sponsored event. I don't give to people who come knocking at my door or to those irritating biddies who rattle charity tins at me in the highstreet.

[Demonz]

Ive been having a debate with some people on another forum about whats the norm when giving to people who are, shall we say "less fortunate".

I said that id buy a big issue from someone in the street every so often, and i would donate money to the likes of Registered charities, but would not under any circumstances give money to people just begging on the streets. This resulted in my getting massively flamed for being "cold hearted and harsh".

One person said that he would even give them money if they knocked on his door of his home, just begging. I couldnt beleive it, and said that here in York, if you did that you would be cruising for a bruising.

So it got me thinking... what are peoples views on here about giving their hard earned (or easily earned in SV650S_DUB's case) cash.

Do you give to big issue vendors? Do you drop a few pennies into the plastic cup of the guy you see on your walk to work? Have you ever had someone knock on your house door begging - if so, did you give? How much are you likely to donate in each situation?

Lets see what the "norm" is......

Discuss.

I guess im with you then... should I feel guilty as I dont even buy big issue. My wallet came out when the Tsumani hit etc but my view is some of these charities skim to much from the top so I am more confused than ever about which is good or not. I have adapted a blanket policy of not giving. I dont give to beggers approaching me off the street as most are smart enough to get a real job.

EDIT: I lie - I give to the clothing bin charities - whoever they are. Thats about it.

[K]

I will admit to not being a great giver of money (the exception being to the RSPCA, who I've elected to pay a slightly higher premium on my dog's insurance, a cut of which goes to them) but I prefer to actually 'do' something.

I'll but extra pet food and put it in the collection bin for the local animal shelter, give clothes n stuff to charity shops or buy some extra sandwiches/can of drink for a Big Issue seller. That kind of thing.

I kinda feel then that I know where my money's gone if you get my drift.

I will give money to buskers though if I like what they're playing - they kinda brighten up the place in a way that beggars don't.

I'm with Mr Orange when it comes to tipping though.

[thor]

Giving money to beggars is a sure fire way to get mugged in London.

I also pay a **** load of tax.

Therefore, I prefer to help people directly.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I also pay a sh*t load of tax.

This is a very important, and very common point of view that left wing 'I think 90% tax is great' idiots forget. The higher you tax people, the less generous they become.

[Anonymous]

Whos the person who voted yes? C'mon, reveal yourself and give your reason/thoughts... :?

[timwilky]

I have a friend, who refuses to give to any charity. (age concern, cancer research etc.) The reason being that he views charity fund raisers as well meaning but doing their charities no favours. If the charity fund raisers did not exist, then the goverment would be forced to fund the work done by the charities.

Obviously there is not enough money to round and those that lacked funding have been forced to get out the begging bowls. This leave goverment free to fund minority or "undeserving" charities to the detriment of others.

As for street beggers, big issue salesmen etc. Get a job you idle scum, there is enough work out there if you can be bothered to get off your backsides. Don't give to them as you only fund their idle waste of a life. Why not make them walking organ donors at least that way their lives would not have been completely wasted, and give them the incentive to mend their ways PDQ.

Just to pour petrol onto fire.

The big issue salesmen are registered as being homeless, and they get a cut of all the ones they sell. So these guys are technically working and trying to get themselves out of their situation. The big issue producers provide training and councelling for their vendors too.

Dont you think that giving to these vendors or buying a mag off them is helping them?

Joe Homeless is bollock. How do I know. My younger daughter walked out of the family home when she was 16, Social services would not help her as technically she had a home (ours) she just would not return to it. etc. She had to stay with her friends families. Within 2 weeks she had a place within a "young persons" homeless unit. It was a horrible place, full of junkies, ****** etc. 2 weeks after that she had the keys to a nice 2 bedroom flat about a mile from us. So about 6 weeks from walking out on us to having her own placeprovided by the tax payer. she has since moved on to another nice flat that the wife and I have furnished for her. She returned to college, then onto university to study nursing. There must be at least 5000 houses boarded up in the North West. If people are genuinely homeless. put them in these houses.

The big issue salesmen are a pain in the butt. They pretend they are homeless unemployed etc. The truth is anyone can get a job. There is housing out there. They are just too bloody idle to get off their backsides

[Rob S (Yella)]

As for street beggers, big issue salesmen etc. Get a job you idle scum,

Street beggars are just that, beggers and if you give them money it's a fact allthough I can't remember where I read it that the money you give them is about 90% used to fund drink and drug habits.

Big issue vendors are not beggars they do have a job and the job is selling the Big Issue. The scheme has helped many homeless peeps get off the street/hostels and back into society so they are not all idle scum. They are homless people who want a better life than begging and drugs and are doing something positive to try and escape that life. They should be encouraged and you should buy a copy and give them a tip as well.

I think a lot of so called succsesful people are intimidated by big issue vendors, perhaps they think they are to good to actually convers with them and buy the product. I think the mag is a bit boring but as I have been homeless and know how easy it is to get there I will buy the mag.

signed by the once homeless bloke who was put up in a stinking B&B but who got his life back on track and who now earns 40+K a year and has YOUR life is in his hands. (no I am not a train driver)

[Well Oiled]

I also pay a sh*t load of tax.

This is a very important, and very common point of view that left wing 'I think 90% tax is great' idiots forget. The higher you tax people, the less generous they become.

I think the point here is that if you give to street beggars you are getting taxed on the money you give them, if you give to a registered charity directly you can either claim the tax back or make your donation go 24% (?) further. That's what I do anyway.

Personally I would never give to 'homeless and hungry' street beggars. For one thing I'm not convinced they are really homeless, for another there's a good chance your feeding a drug habit, and also it's encouraging people to intimidate passers-by into giving them money.

I know people who've offered them food and had it thrown back at them, saying they want money. Not that hungry then.

Cheers Keith

[Scooby Drew]

I don't belive in giving to beggars in the street as you are just reinforcing the idea to them that it is easier to sit around begging instead of trying to help themselves.

BUT there is a problem we call in the bank being 'socially disadvantaged' where you have fallen out of the 'Loop'

The 'Loop' being where
a) You need a permnent address and a bank account to get a job.
b) You need a bank account and a job to get an address
c) You need an address and a job to get a bank account

As far as I know RBS is doing it's best to take people who fall into this category into account when opening accounts but we are bound by very strict rules imposed by the FSA. Once you fall into this category it is very difficult to get back into a socially accepted position due to the rules imposed by the system. When I first came over here from South Africa I fell into this category as I was staying in a youth hostel and nobody really wanted to know because of the points above.

The only way I got a bank account was by doing a live in job in a pub for £2.50 p/h and the pub manager 'sorted' the bank account with his mate at hte local branch. This was a last resort as I had been offered an office job for £10p/h but could not take it up as the agency nede me to have a bank account.

Something I found out about the people who approach you on the high street to sign you up to donate to a charity every month: they are paid £25 for each person they sign up. As you are donating £5pm, you are paying them to stand there and bother people for the next five months before any of the actual money you have donated goes to the people you intended it for. The charities bank on the fact that you will donate for at least a year before stopping the debit order.

[huge]

Without sounding boring I focus my charitable donations by giving every month using a direct debit to the charity of my choice. This way they also get a tax rebate on my donation.

Generally I don't give street handouts, though I do occasionally, even if they are junkies/alcies, cos they are local and I've known them a while.

I should buy more from big issue sellers - it's just such a crap read!

I think Timwilky's mate is a bit of a tightwad and using this to make a redundant political point - our political/social system would not work without charity. It is fundamental to our civil society. I feel for countries coming out of communism - they are having to create this from scratch.

[Ceri JC]

I used to when I was more naive.

Now I give direct to charities like "shelter". I'll buy a homeless person food if they look like they need it (IE not if they're more overweight than me :D, nor if they're wearing jewelry that they could sell). There's no point giving them money for food, 90%+ are on drugs, even if it's "only" alcohol. They'll spend the cash on drugs and take food out of bins instead.

Anyone from Bristol will be able to confirm that they have the worst beggars of all. Really, really aggressive, as in, will follow you down the road threatening you.

[Ceri JC]

I also pay a sh*t load of tax.

This is a very important, and very common point of view that left wing 'I think 90% tax is great' idiots forget. The higher you tax people, the less generous they become.
:winner:
Ker-ching!

Hits the nail on the head nicely. I love the way that lefties like to blanket-portray conservatives as selfish and unwilling to give, on the grounds that they don't want to pay higher tax to help others. No, I would just rather be able to choose who and what causes get it, rather than some overpaid gimp down in London deciding for me and, in some instances, giving my hard earned money to causes I not only feel no sympathy for, but that I actively oppose.

Higher taxation also results in less volunteering. People become of the opinion, Well, I pay my tax through the nose; I'm damned if I'm giving up my free time to help the needy too.

Charity is only "charity" if the giving is done through choice.

[Ceri JC]

BUT there is a problem we call in the bank being 'socially disadvantaged' where you have fallen out of the 'Loop'

The 'Loop' being where
a) You need a permnent address and a bank account to get a job.
b) You need a bank account and a job to get an address
c) You need an address and a job to get a bank account


Whilst it's certainly harder than if you're working/with a bank account/in a house already, it's not that hard. Cash in hand jobs are still out there, faking an address (using a friend's one) is easy too. You can get cash in hand work (go to your local open air market or green grocers for starters), rent a room in a shared house or sleep on a friends couch. Use that as an address to get a bank account and "proper job".

Someone might argue that not everyone has friends and family they can use in this way. The vast majority do to begin with; it's just that by staying at their place rent free for weeks on end that you alienate them and get kicked out.

Back on topic:

I do occassionally buy a big issue.

[Scoobs]

Anyone from Bristol will be able to confirm that they have the worst beggars of all. Really, really aggressive, as in, will follow you down the road threatening you.

You wanna go to Amsterdam. Evil bastids.

[timwilky]

I think Timwilky's mate is a bit of a tightwad and using this to make a redundant political point - our political/social system would not work without charity. It is fundamental to our civil society. I feel for countries coming out of communism - they are having to create this from scratch.

My Mate Ray, works within the health service and is one of the most caring and socially concerned people i know. He is not a "tightwad", he simply views it goverments/tax payers role to fund support/research that all those groups such as Age Concern, Cancer Research, Scope, etc collect for. He believes that the charities should not have to beg for funding especially when we see so much wasted on ner do wells.

I know people support charities where they have a direct involvement through friend/family being exposed to whatever the charity is aimed at. However for medical/care charities they should not have to go cap in hand to Joe Public but should be funded as any other part of the health service provisioning. Donations should be the cream on the cake. Not the principle revenue stream.

It is only when our goverment faces upto it obligations to fund/support research and care properly will we see appropriate resource for the 1 million plus individuals who are currently caring for friends and families and desperate for any assistance they can get.

[Scooby Drew]

BUT there is a problem we call in the bank being 'socially disadvantaged' where you have fallen out of the 'Loop'

The 'Loop' being where
a) You need a permnent address and a bank account to get a job.
b) You need a bank account and a job to get an address
c) You need an address and a job to get a bank account


Whilst it's certainly harder than if you're working/with a bank account/in a house already, it's not that hard. Cash in hand jobs are still out there, faking an address (using a friend's one) is easy too. You can get cash in hand work (go to your local open air market or green grocers for starters), rent a room in a shared house or sleep on a friends couch. Use that as an address to get a bank account and "proper job".

Someone might argue that not everyone has friends and family they can use in this way. The vast majority do to begin with; it's just that by staying at their place rent free for weeks on end that you alienate them and get kicked out.

Back on topic:

I do occassionally buy a big issue.

Back off topic:

Faking an address- If you read Northwind's comments on the '£40M heist' post you would know that in the Financial Services Industry we are bound by a lot of rules brought in by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) to prevent fraud and money laundering. One of the very first checks performed on a prospective customer to the bank trying to open an account is knowing your customer: You need proof of id and proof of address like a utility bill or a drivers licence. An Equifax search can be done etc. Will you have these with all the correct details when dossing down at a friend's?

You have been kicked out for fighting with your parents/taking drugs/your parents are screwed up and abuse you or you just feel that you cannot cope with your family anymore and want to go it alone. Not everyone is as lucky as Tim Wilky's daughter, they end up in a strange city with no friends and no help. The design of the system is against you. It is geared towards the norm - a car, mortgage and 2.4 kids.

I am not condoning begging but if you end up there (for whatever reason) it is very difficult to get out. It takes a certain amount of hopelessnes to lose your pride enough to go and beg in the first place. Society has a lot to answer for in making a bad situation worse.

[philipMac]

Basically I agree with Thor. It is not your job to be going around finding which charity is most worthy. this is the govts job. You pay tax, they give some to charity. End of story.

But, you can get very removed and abstract from the whole thing.

Its very simple though on one level.
There is you, and there is another person. If the other person is begging on the street, they probably have less than you do.

If they ask you for something, and you give them something, they are still up **** creek. Just, now they can buy a cup of tea / bottle of cider.
It hasnt affected you in the slightest really. Their life is still a bit crap, but for about 20 minutes its slightly less crap.

So: it doesnt effect you; and it does effect them slightly. (Unless you get mugged...)

Its like what Scooby Drew was saying there. And, similar to me seeing that dead kid the other day. Whatever the rights and wrongs, you just have to think of that person there as a person. Saying... grand grand, thats not my job, well, there is nothing wrong with giving them something.
Just like there is nothing wrong with seeing a dead kid, and feeling horrible about it. Its a totally human thing.

[Daimo]

It depends on the mood. Its a lot harder as theres so many homeless people in London.

End of the day, they are another human life. They may not be out working etc, but they will never ever get to see some of the things us more fortunate people will (like going on holiday etc..)

If i've got change in my pocket, im happy to give it onto someone who needs it more than me. 50p-£1 is not going to hurt me, but it'll keep someone else happy for a while.

I would MUCH rather hand over my change to someone on the streets than some scummy illegal immergrant.

[philipMac]

I would MUCH rather hand over my change to someone on the streets than some scummy illegal immergrant.

:oops: Oh mate. I am just going to pretend I didnt hear that :wink:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Basically I agree with Thor. It is not your job to be going around finding which charity is most worthy. this is the govts job. You pay tax, they give some to charity. End of story.

I'm not sure whether that was thors point.

The government wants to set high tax levels and take responsibility for charitable causes then I'm less likely to give to charity. I don't do this because I agree that the government should be responsible for charitable causes. On the contrary, I think they are incompetant money wasters and the last people who'd spend the money wisely.

I'd much rather I decided where the money went by having lower tax and giving as and when. I cant make that choice though, so I'm less likely to give because I'm resentful.

[keithd]

Giving to the less fortunate

i say **** em

not literally

[Ceri JC]

Anyone from Bristol will be able to confirm that they have the worst beggars of all. Really, really aggressive, as in, will follow you down the road threatening you.

You wanna go to Amsterdam. Evil bastids.
Oh yes, seen them before. Luckily I was with a Dutch mate who had warned me in advance.

[northwind]

I voted yes... But I don't do it often. AFAIC, sitting in a Scottish street in all weathers isn't something you'd do because you're idle. It's a last resort for the truly desperate. Sure, there's plenty out there that are abusing people's charity, but it's far from everyone. No agrressive beggar, or drunken beggar, gets a penny out of me- there's usualyl someone more deserving round the corner.

I think what a lot of people miss is how difficult it can be to get any sort of job when you're no fixed abode. You need to, at the very least, have a mailing address, and a shelter address would put many potential employers off. And if you're homeless or in shelters, you're not exactly likely to have an interview suit hanging in the wardrobe.

I can see Squirrel's point, it makes a lot of sense. But I'd sooner pay a little more tax and have better shelters and support in place, tax funded, than have people supported purely by charity. All evidence is that charity's less effective for supporting the homeless. Properly funded housing schemes are far better for getting people back into the working world, which ultimately is more likely to get them off the streets permanently.

[Lissa]

I have always bought the Big Issue...............but at the moment I refuse to buy off our local vendor.

Why?

Because she can only just manage to say Big Issue in English.

Call me harsh, but I will only give to BRITISH homeless.

[philipMac]

Why are Northwinds opinions so bloody reasonable.
Basically, whatever Northwind says, I completely agree with.

Anyway... the homeless people in downtown manhattan look down upon me. And they wont accept anything less than a twenty. And even then you have to ok it with their agent first.

And they have better shoes than I do.

[carelesschucca]

I've watched one of my friends Danny become a homeless. Sad, he’s a good guy that went down the wrong track to escape a sh*t life in a dead end part of Glasgow (Calton famous for Calton Athletic Recovery Group)

He’s been through his drugs hell and luckily come through the other side and is looking better every time I see him and genuinely a good guy…

Last time I met him he was in a shelter and getting help (he’s safer there then with his psycho ex-girlfriend) I give him a twenty deck of cigarettes every time I see him cause he won’t take cash off me …

It makes me sad when I see him, even though he always seems chipper and happy to see me, just makes me feel lucky I got a decent start in life and not the crap he had to go through…

[philipMac]

Call me harsh, but I will only give to BRITISH homeless.

Harsh is not really the word.
Racist is more like it I suppose.

[Peter Henry]

Like the day after tax levels are reduced to say 10% the numerous charities are going to be awash with the flood of voluntary donations from those now benefitting from the governments leniency! Like yeah,I am afraid all that will happen is people will simply go about using the increased income to better their own lot. :?

[Lissa]

Call me harsh, but I will only give to BRITISH homeless.

Harsh is not really the word.
Racist is more like it I suppose.

I have no problem with anyone coming to this country prepared to work, support themselves, and make a contribution.

I DO have a problem with people coming here to milk the State, sitting with their hands out expecting us to provide for them.

Oh, and incidentally.............can you BE racist against someone of your own colour?

[carelesschucca]

Yes (nice tattoo by the way)

[Peter Henry]

Lissa wrote:

can you BE racist against someone of your own colour?

:shock: :shock: :?

[northwind]

Why are Northwinds opinions so bloody reasonable.

Because I'm the Voice Of Reason. Disagree with me at your peril ;)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Like the day after tax levels are reduced to say 10% the numerous charities are going to be awash with the flood of voluntary donations from those now benefitting from the governments leniency! Like yeah,I am afraid all that will happen is people will simply go about using the increased income to better their own lot. :?

Actualy that's probably exactly what would happen. Dispite being one of the countries most vilified for being greedy, the country with the highest levels of charitable donations is - America.

[northwind]

Only if you do it net, not as per capita, per percentage of average annual income, or by percentage of GDP. America doesn't make it into the top 5 by either of those measures.

[philipMac]

Only if you do it net, not as per capita, per percentage of average annual income, or by percentage of GDP. America doesn't make it into the top 5 by either of those measures.

Roger that.
Bleeding northwind.

Norway and Switzerland are (I think) at the top.

Ireland is in the top ten (???)

[Peter Henry]

I find it difficult to believe that there is any "probability" that a charitable minded nation will be born on the back of such tax concessions. There may be some that would become more less self centred,true. But to imagine their will be a swathe of change is frankly nothing more than nieve in my own personal opinion.

[tricky]

I am very conflicted on beggars/charity etc, apologies for the slightly random post.

I walk through Nottingham City centre on my lunch hour about 2 or three time a week.
Every day on Lister Gate there are people soliciting for a different charity, they are all equally deserving, but I can't give to them all. So what are you suppose to do.

I get envelopes through the door "Desperately Need Clothes for disaster area X" So I fill the bag up with decent stuff and the feckers never collect it again, so you try and take it to the charity shop and they don't want it either.

I get beggars asking me for money, some I'm sure are genuine and in need of help and some are just scrounging toe rags (once saw some lad who was begging in the street get up and get in a really nice car and drive off). Buggered if I'm going to give hard earned cash to some lazy sod who can't bothered. Because of this the genuine needy suffer.

I somtimes buy a Big Issue but in Nottingham now there are a number of bogus Big Issue sellers as well, who are non-homeless people on the scrounge.
So you can't even be sure the Big Issue money will go to someone that needs it.

Same old story, greedy *******s profit, genuine needy suffer.

[sharriso74]

If you want to give money see if you can do via the firm you work for as the Gov gives the tax money on your donatio to the charity as well.

[tricky]

The lad next door has just done his CBT and has a scooter.
He was riding round with no gloves on (I remember being 16 and not being able to afford decent gear) so I gave him a pair of my old ones .
Biker charity :D

[Ceri JC]

The lad next door has just done his CBT and has a scooter.
He was riding round with no gloves on (I remember being 16 and not being able to afford decent gear) so I gave him a pair of my old ones .
Biker charity :D

A valid point. People think of charity as solely giving money to organisations who will, at best, use at least some of the money on admin/running costs, rather than actual aid. Giving someone who needs it, who is worse off than yourself, your old PC/TV/push bike/whatever is a much better way of "helping" IMO.

Similarly volunteering some of your spare time for charities you approve of is just as valid, if not more so, than chucking money at a problem. I think people just like charity standing orders because it's a more convenient way of easing your concience than actually doing something about it yourself.


All evidence is that charity's less effective for supporting the homeless. Properly funded housing schemes are far better for getting people back into the working world, which ultimately is more likely to get them off the streets permanently.

Agreed. I take it you're refering to giving money to beggars direct, when you say "charity", rather than say, Shelter, who are a charitable housing scheme. I definately think we need to make the process of getting back into work easier for those homeless people who want to/are able to.[/quote]

[Foey]

Call me harsh, but I will only give to BRITISH homeless.

Harsh is not really the word.
Racist is more like it I suppose.

I have no problem with anyone coming to this country prepared to work, support themselves, and make a contribution.

I DO have a problem with people coming here to milk the State, sitting with their hands out expecting us to provide for them.




=D> =D> =D> My thoughts exactly.

[northwind]

Agreed. I take it you're refering to giving money to beggars direct, when you say "charity", rather than say, Shelter, who are a charitable housing scheme. I definately think we need to make the process of getting back into work easier for those homeless people who want to/are able to.

Whoops, yes, good point.

[Anonymous]

I dont give any money to charity because i do not benefit from it.

The thing to do is have a big jar in your house and at the end of each day throw all you coins into it. When it get full take it to coin star in ASDA ( a machine that sorts it all out and prints a recipt that you cash in at the check out).

You would be supprised how quickly it fills up. You can use all the money you have collected to fund your lastest mods or in my case help to save up for the SV.

[Foey]

When it get full take it to coin star in ASDA ( a machine that sorts it all out and prints a recipt that you cash in at the check out).






Don't you pay a percentage of what you put in as a fee, you'd be better off counting it out into change bags from the bank & paying it in yourself.

[philipMac]

Call me harsh, but I will only give to BRITISH homeless.

Harsh is not really the word.
Racist is more like it I suppose.

I have no problem with anyone coming to this country prepared to work, support themselves, and make a contribution.

I DO have a problem with people coming here to milk the State, sitting with their hands out expecting us to provide for them.



=D> =D> =D> My thoughts exactly.

So, there are differant classes of homeless people? Ones you like, and ones you dont?
I mean, I thought we sort of agreed that people dont really want to be homeless.

Jesus dude. Its hard to leave your country. You think people want to do this? Leave everything that they know, to be so desperate to drop everything, and move to say the UK? Its hard. I have done it a couple of times, and in very cushy circumstances. And, its still hard.

And, then, when you get here, you still cant make it. What are you supposed to do? Go back home? To the landmines and ethnic cleansing maybe? With what money?

Why does being born in Hove make you more worthy than Burkina faso?

If your country is screwed so badly that you move to the UK, who am I to say anything to you?

Just because you were born in the UK. And me in Ireland. And just because some poor sod was born in Iraq means nothing to me. Both of us seem to have made a bit of a go at things. But, if I think for a second I deserve all this stuff, that I am entitled to it, I have to slap myself about a bit. I am lucky. Straight up lucky, with a little determination.
If they are homeless, alive and human (or maybe a dog, I like dogs :)), as far as I am concerned they are in the same boat.

[philipMac]

I dont give any money to charity because i do not benefit from it.


Classic man. :lol:

[keithd]

Jesus dude. Its hard to leave your country. You think people want to do this? Leave everything that they know, to be so desperate to drop everything, and move to say the UK? Its hard. I have done it a couple of times, and in very cushy circumstances. And, its still hard.

And, then, when you get here, you still cant make it. What are you supposed to do? Go back home? To the landmines and ethnic cleansing maybe? With what money?

Why does being born in Hove make you more worthy than Burkina faso?

If your country is screwed so badly that you move to the UK, who am I to say anything to you?

Just because you were born in the UK. And me in Ireland. And just because some poor sod was born in Iraq means nothing to me. Both of us seem to have made a bit of a go at things. But, if I think for a second I deserve all this stuff, that I am entitled to it, I have to slap myself about a bit. I am lucky. Straight up lucky, with a little determination.
If they are homeless, alive and human (or maybe a dog, I like dogs :)), as far as I am concerned they are in the same boat.

this is a whole new can of worms being opened here. and its only going to get worse.

just my opinion.

i shall now duck and cover

[philipMac]

Jesus dude. Its hard to leave your country. You think people want to do this? Leave everything that they know, to be so desperate to drop everything, and move to say the UK? Its hard. I have done it a couple of times, and in very cushy circumstances. And, its still hard.

And, then, when you get here, you still cant make it. What are you supposed to do? Go back home? To the landmines and ethnic cleansing maybe? With what money?

Why does being born in Hove make you more worthy than Burkina faso?

If your country is screwed so badly that you move to the UK, who am I to say anything to you?

Just because you were born in the UK. And me in Ireland. And just because some poor sod was born in Iraq means nothing to me. Both of us seem to have made a bit of a go at things. But, if I think for a second I deserve all this stuff, that I am entitled to it, I have to slap myself about a bit. I am lucky. Straight up lucky, with a little determination.
If they are homeless, alive and human (or maybe a dog, I like dogs :)), as far as I am concerned they are in the same boat.

this is a whole new can of worms being opened here. and its only going to get worse.

just my opinion.

i shall now duck and cover

Sorry man. Here, if its Off topic, nuke it.

[Anonymous]

When it get full take it to coin star in ASDA ( a machine that sorts it all out and prints a recipt that you cash in at the check out).






Don't you pay a percentage of what you put in as a fee, you'd be better off counting it out into change bags from the bank & paying it in yourself.

Hi y

Yes its 7% as far as i can remeber. Think is though for the sake of a few quid can you reall be arsed going to the cbank getting those little money bags and spending hours messing around.

I tend to take th quids and fifty p coins out and put the rest in coin star.

Interestingly there is actually a button on coinstar that allows you to send your money to charity

[Spiderman]

So, there are differant classes of homeless people? Ones you like, and ones you dont?
I mean, I thought we sort of agreed that people dont really want to be homeless.

Jesus dude. Its hard to leave your country. You think people want to do this? Leave everything that they know, to be so desperate to drop everything, and move to say the UK? Its hard. I have done it a couple of times, and in very cushy circumstances. And, its still hard.

And, then, when you get here, you still cant make it. What are you supposed to do? Go back home? To the landmines and ethnic cleansing maybe? With what money?

Why does being born in Hove make you more worthy than Burkina faso?

If your country is screwed so badly that you move to the UK, who am I to say anything to you?

Just because you were born in the UK. And me in Ireland. And just because some poor sod was born in Iraq means nothing to me. Both of us seem to have made a bit of a go at things. But, if I think for a second I deserve all this stuff, that I am entitled to it, I have to slap myself about a bit. I am lucky. Straight up lucky, with a little determination.
If they are homeless, alive and human (or maybe a dog, I like dogs :)), as far as I am concerned they are in the same boat.

Well done PhilMac =D> =D>

You raise some very valid points that most people miss when they think of "foreign" homless people. There is a very very small minority in citys the world over who are undeserving and playing the game as it were but most are just very unlcky people who need a helping hand.

Anone who knows me from Soho will know that i give something to all the homeless around there.... its called courtesy and equality. Yes they may smell, yes they may be a bit drunk but i talk to them in much the same way as i talk to the rest of the soho massive. I treat them like the human beings they are.
I've even shared my pizza with dennis (soho's resident drinker) on a couple of nights where he's been hungry.

But this is an emotive subject so i'm gonna keep most of my other comments to myself.

Its only luck, family, friends and circumstance that keep any of us from being on the streets people. Very few take it as a lifestyle choice.

[Peter Henry]

guyowen wrote:

I dont give any money to charity because i do not benefit from it.


In essence that comment is possibly among the most honest that have been posted in this thread. A sentiment that no-one else(me included) has been brave enough to voice. :wink:


Spidey....Well said that chap!

"There but for the grace of God" and all that. Maybe those so quick to judge should occasionally ponder that quotation.

[philipMac]

So, there are differant classes of homeless people? Ones you like, and ones you dont?
I mean, I thought we sort of agreed that people dont really want to be homeless.

Jesus dude. Its hard to leave your country. You think people want to do this? Leave everything that they know, to be so desperate to drop everything, and move to say the UK? Its hard. I have done it a couple of times, and in very cushy circumstances. And, its still hard.

And, then, when you get here, you still cant make it. What are you supposed to do? Go back home? To the landmines and ethnic cleansing maybe? With what money?

Why does being born in Hove make you more worthy than Burkina faso?

If your country is screwed so badly that you move to the UK, who am I to say anything to you?

Just because you were born in the UK. And me in Ireland. And just because some poor sod was born in Iraq means nothing to me. Both of us seem to have made a bit of a go at things. But, if I think for a second I deserve all this stuff, that I am entitled to it, I have to slap myself about a bit. I am lucky. Straight up lucky, with a little determination.
If they are homeless, alive and human (or maybe a dog, I like dogs :)), as far as I am concerned they are in the same boat.

Well done PhilMac =D> =D>
...
I've even shared my pizza with dennis (soho's resident drinker) on a couple of nights where he's been hungry.
...


Ahh spidey. You are too kind.

You are also, by the sounds of it, a better person than me. I dont share my food with homeless, in fact, the last vaugely decent thing I have done for homeless people this month was help some dude with lift his trolleys of crap on the way back to my bike.

A mate of mine did a cool thing.
He was paid on Friday. We would go out for video and a six pack on Thursday. On the way home, he would give all of the rest of his money away to the homeless people he knew. So, he was skint Thursday night. Back into work the next morning, got paid, lived the week, gave away whate ever he had left.

Something about that awed me.

His grand father was one of your Prime Ministers :)

[21QUEST]

I would MUCH rather hand over my change to someone on the streets than some scummy illegal immergrant.



Call me harsh, but I will only give to BRITISH homeless.

What can I say apart form maybe you TWO should do LUNCH :roll: :( .



Like someone said it's an emotive subject so I'll not say anything else.

Cheers
Ben

[philipMac]

Interestingly there is actually a button on coinstar that allows you to send your money to charity

You would want to watch it there pal.

BigApe will have your Troll status revoked fairly lively if you carry on like this.

[medwaysv]

this may seem a bit controversial
why not take the homeless off the street and put them in the army.that way at least they'd get paid,free food plus the opportunity to learn a trade...something that would surely put them in goood stead for their future empolyment chances.
the way i see it is..if you want to get on in life..then you've got to put a bit of effort in yourself

[Cloggsy]

this may seem a bit controversial
why not take the homeless off the street and put them in the army.

I see your point, but the vast majority of homeless people have massive mental health issues... Would you want someone with mental health issues in charge of a semi-automatic rifle & 120 rounds :?:

Stick 'em straight in the loony bin (or top 'em all off like they do with 'street kids' in Brazil*)

(*) Yes, I am joking :!:

[Tara]

When it get full take it to coin star in ASDA ( a machine that sorts it all out and prints a recipt that you cash in at the check out).






Don't you pay a percentage of what you put in as a fee, you'd be better off counting it out into change bags from the bank & paying it in yourself.

Hi y

Yes its 7% as far as i can remeber. Think is though for the sake of a few quid can you reall be arsed going to the cbank getting those little money bags and spending hours messing around.

I tend to take th quids and fifty p coins out and put the rest in coin star.

Interestingly there is actually a button on coinstar that allows you to send your money to charity

never thought i'd say this but..

I'm with you its something like 7% in each pound you change, and if you take your money to the bank in those little bags some will only let you change 5 bags at a time as it takes time to weigh the things, mine goes in the coinstar but the only charity it goes to is mine, sorry if you think i'm being selfish just the way i am

[northwind]

I see your point, but the vast majority of homeless people have massive mental health issues... Would you want someone with mental health issues in charge of a semi-automatic rifle & 120 rounds :?:


That is, i think, the best point I've ever seen in an argument on this site :) "Why did you shoot your commanding officer?" "'e 'ad th' de'il in 'im"

[philipMac]

I see your point, but the vast majority of homeless people have massive mental health issues... Would you want someone with mental health issues in charge of a semi-automatic rifle & 120 rounds :?:


That is, i think, the best point I've ever seen in an argument on this site :) "Why did you shoot your commanding officer?" "'e 'ad th' de'il in 'im"

Yeah. And its not as if the issues end at mental ones. A large number of homeless around NYC are old, and test positive for lots of very nasty diseases, a lot of TB for instance.

Em, but, yeah, there is something in what you are saying though. Its not a silly idea. If you look at the prison service here, in a lot of states it actually makes money. So much so, that they are calling it new slavery. But, that really is another kettle of iascs.

But, saying to these guys, here, listen, if you want to we will take you to a shelter, you will have a bed there, you will get three meals a day, and you will have a job. Something, anything, clearing of litter, hedge rows. For this work, they will get paid, but it will not be much (ie food and rent will be deducted).

But, there would be an option open, if you turn up for the crappy low grade job for three months, and show yourself to be a cool sort of person, then you can be allowed into some program which will also involve skilled training 2 days a week or something. Eventually, you would end up with a cert of some kind, in car mechanics, brick laying, programming, etc.

How does that sound then? 8)

[sharriso74]

Very good idea but far too sensible for our idiot politicians to consider

[Anonymous]

Lots of homeless people on the streets ARE ex-military.

They come out of the forces and arent used to making their own decisions - after a lifetime spent following orders, having a roof provided over yourheads. Having your bills and financial affairs handled from the word go, i.e. houseing taken direct out of wages, and then being told to make your monthly salary last... is a shock.

They end up on the streets, unable to hold down "normal" 9-5 jobs. Shame really, they should be given more support to adjust to civilian society.

[sharriso74]

Completely agree with philipMac's idea. Some sort of hostel spend 3 days a week cleaning up graffiti, rivers etc then 2 days a week training for work. Then at least they'll have an address and some self respect

[philipMac]

They end up on the streets, unable to hold down "normal" 9-5 jobs. Shame really, they should be given more support to adjust to civilian society.

I suppose the logical conclusion of this is Spetsnaz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spetsnaz

Spetsnaz are scary. I mean, the SAS / SBS are very scary. But, Spetsnaz are also very scary. You dont want these boys knocking about your city with nothing to do.

When the Soviet Union fell, a lot of them were let go, in various states of dissaray. A number of them are serious sociopaths. At best.

At this point, some of them would work for any sort of money, doing any sort of job. And, a lot of really unpleasant people got themselves Spetsnaz bodyguards. I presume some of them never got things back together, and ended up roaming around eastern Europe, like you were saying.

Interesting aside about Spetsnaz: when they are sent on a mission, they have one goal. To get that Mission done. By. Any. Means. Nessesary.

So, they are not incumbered with ethics. They just go, until they are dead, or the mission is finished. I know a few former Soviets, ex army Soviets, who STILL, in Ireland, feel uncomfortable talking about these guys. Whatever they did out there, has scared people, and this almost sounds a bit far fetched, but, they seem to have scared the people more than Stalin did.

:shock:

[Spiderman]

Well done PhilMac =D> =D>
...
I've even shared my pizza with dennis (soho's resident drinker) on a couple of nights where he's been hungry.
...


Ahh spidey. You are too kind.

You are also, by the sounds of it, a better person than me. I dont share my food with homeless, in fact, the last vaugely decent thing I have done for homeless people this month was help some dude with lift his trolleys of crap on the way back to my bike.

A mate of mine did a cool thing.
He was paid on Friday. We would go out for video and a six pack on Thursday. On the way home, he would give all of the rest of his money away to the homeless people he knew. So, he was skint Thursday night. Back into work the next morning, got paid, lived the week, gave away whate ever he had left.

Something about that awed me.

His grand father was one of your Prime Ministers :)

I'm intrigued :shock: Who was it then????

More importantly, what a cool guy. I'm sure he had his good reasons for doing it too. I know i have mine and they are quite simple really. But they are mine.

Its funny, i noticed how some of the people who dont give to charity seem to feel they have to be sorry for not giving. I give only cos i want to and not for some notion that others will have of me. So why the stigma attached to those who choose not to give? I never understood that one.

As for me sharing my pizza with Dennis, i gotta clarify that he's clean and well mannered and easy to talk to in some ways cos , in his words "I F***in love you bikers!"

But i'll talk to most any of the others that pass by us in Soho if theyre not so drunk that i cant understand them. :)

[philipMac]

I'm intrigued :shock: Who was it then????


James Callaghan. I actually stayed with him for a weekend. He had a class house out in Kent or something.
Funny story, my mate had car issues, and didnt get to the airport to pick me up in time. So, Ｉdeduced he had forgotten me. So, I got on a train, since I knew the town.
Arrived into the town, and strolled into the local taxi rank.
Lord Callaghans please. (Obvious Irish accent)
Wheres that then?
Dont know.
Sorry?
No idea, its a farm.
Oh.

Eventually they worked it out, and dropped me out there.

At two in the morning.

My mate wasnt there yet, so we just waited in the garage. Sitting by his car.


Let me just go through that again.
Irish guy walks into town, asks for Lord Callaghans residence. Is dropped there, cant get in, and climbs in the garage to wait.

Good security, right?

In the mean time, my mate thinks that special branch have me. Since I am nowhere to be found, and according to the rules, they had to clear my name and flight number with intell.
He arrives back at the grandads place, at about 4am. I am seriously vexed at this point. My gf is crying. And he is ****ting himself thinking I am locked away somewhere, with the electrodes clamped to my nipples.

We needed a stiff drink. And plenty of them.

So, in we go, and out comes a bottle of whiskey. Half a bottle later, I am thinking that this is very nice whiskey altogether. I ask whats the name, and its in a fancy bottle, with a note attached.

Happy Christmas Jim, Elizabeth.

Yup. The Queen.
Nice whiskey.
Scottish, but nice none the less.

[Spiderman]

hahaha, what a quality story!

And name dropping of prime inisters and royalty all in one too. Well done that man for having lived an interesting life!

[philipMac]

hahaha, what a quality story!

And name dropping of prime inisters and royalty all in one too. Well done that man for having lived an interesting life!

Have to drop the names man.

Did you hear the one about Paddy Irish man, in the ex-PM gaff, nicking the queens whiskey?

:roll:

Wheres northy anyway. He is meant to bite about the Irish Whiskey is better than Scottish troll.

[northwind]

Irish whisky is better than Scotch... Well, depends. If you want refined, flavoursome, smoky, peaty, sophisticated, any of that, then Scotch is better. If you want a drink that hurts your mouth, then Irish. Always a bottle of Jamesons in my house :)

By the way, on the subject of charity, I just had a run-in with an Amnesty call-monkey. Usually, Amnesty's phone people are superb. They got a terrible slating for paying professionals instead of using volunteers but it turned out they made far more back in donations than they lost. They can get extra money out of even tight scotsmen with expensive motorbike addictions. I joked about it at work that the Bank should hire the same company, apparently we tried but we can't afford them...

But this guy tonight...First, "Thanks very insincerely for your donations", gave me the huge rep on forced prostitution, human traficking, modern slavery etc, which I think we can all agree is worth campaigning against. Then, "But we need more money..." Uh oh. "...and we're calling to ask if you'd be willing to increase your donation from £10 per month to £25"

(I'm not tight by the way, I just support more charities than Amnesty. But Amnesty have the best t-shirts)

"Eh, no to be honest, I give what I want to give, and I donate to other charities" "That's great, insincere appreciateion of how generous you are- but EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL! WOMEN ARE BEING ABUSED! KITTENS ARE BEING TORTURED! And if you gave us even £5 more it'd all stop. If you don't, then it's your fault and you're going to HELL!"

Really, really not impressed.

[anna]

"Eh, no to be honest, I give what I want to give, and I donate to other charities" "That's great, insincere appreciateion of how generous you are- but EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL! WOMEN ARE BEING ABUSED! KITTENS ARE BEING TORTURED! And if you gave us even £5 more it'd all stop. If you don't, then it's your fault and you're going to HELL!"

Really, really not impressed.

so a fantastic sales pitch that is garanteed to work then :roll:

To get back to topic.. I give to air ambulance as I figure that hell I may be unfortunate enough to need them one day, I never give to beggars in the street.. yes Bristol is bad I'm not sure that it as bad as other places but because it is a smallish city I think it is more noticable.

A friend of mine only last week gave money to a beggar to then walk away and five minutes later be mugged at knife point from the same guy luckily she was sensible and just handed handbag over without putting up a struggle and he ran off with it.

Unfortunatley there are a lot of mental health patients on the streets that really should be taken better care of but giving money to them isnt really the answer as they are only going to spend it on booze etc.

[northwind]

What this thread needs is some Marxism! The man talked a lot of crap but one thing that I think just makes fundamental sense is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Like all the good Marx quotes, Engels gave it to him, and he took it too far :roll:

But I think it sums up my position quite well. Genuinely unemployable person on the street- mad person, desperate person, runaway, whatever- they need help. Slack bas****, he neither has the need, or the willingness to give or to do what he could for himself and others., so he gets nowt.

[21QUEST]

.......Good Stuff.......

They can get extra money out of even tight scotsmen with expensive motorbike addictions.


:shock: :lol: In that case , next time I shall have you as my main Sponsor :P :wink:


Cheers
Ben

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2100/scan4xf.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan4xf.jpg)http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6445/scan0016xj.th.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016xj.jpg)

[northwind]

John O'Groats to Lands end was it? Tell me next time and I'll join you ;)