Gearbox problems...A result?

[Stingo]

In January of this year, after having had my SV serviced, she developed a problem with third gear – it vanished! A bit like selecting neutral but without the light. Anyway, I took the machine to the dealer from whence she came who said that there could be grounds for Suzuki to make a ‘good will’ payment, given the bike’s history.

Purchased in back end of June 03. Mostly used for commuting – 14 miles a day, more in the summer when taking the scenic route – never been on a racetrack. Serviced regularly as you do, especially when you’ve had it from new.

Well, two weeks later Suzuki told the workshop that no decision could be made until the defect had been investigated further. Okay, fair enough. Engine was removed and sat on a bench for three weeks. I stamped my feet, and it was stripped down to get to the inner workings of the gearbox where it was discovered that third gear had snapped into 4 bits. Hmm, right then, that’s defo knackered. Suzuki were informed and they said “Nah, not paying anything, it’s the age you see”.

I called them myself – the nice chap was unable to give me any more info – at all – not a sausage. I went to the workshop who said that all in all the job was going to cost about a grand!! Christ on a bike!!! Blimey!! %$*&&!!.

Upon telling the missus, her head gasket blew!! Fair enough I thought, mines a bit ropey right now. I called Suzuki again who said they would get back to me. A different person did indeed call me back. She was unable to expand on the decision or indeed justify the ‘age’ thing. She also informed me that it was not possible to speak to the customer services manager or the person who made the decision.. So that was that.

I have told the workshop to wait before doing anything else – and have written a letter to ask them to justify ‘age’, and also to reconsider their decision.

Naturally, I am currently quite miffed as is the missus. I’ll update the thread as and when…

Always open to suggestions…no matter how daft!!

Keep smiling!

[Scoobs]

Citizens Advice Bureau.

Motorcycling magazines.

Sythree

[rictus01]

Just as a matter of interest, what sort of mileage are you talking about ?

that's not good,just keep on at them.

If however you don't get any joy, you can get a decent second hand K3 lump for £500, and fitting takes about an hour or so (or should do) but if not experienced then perhaps a day.

[petevtwin650]

Problem is the dealer will still want paying for the work they've done. Maybe 320 quid. And of course they won't let the bike go until then. Surely got to be a manufacturing fault. :x

Try the motorcycle press.

[Biker Biggles]

I think the press too.First you need a reason the part failed and the "age" thing won't wash unless Suzuki wish to accept that their gearboxes lunch themselves at two and a bit years.Then you need say Ride to contact Suzuki and ask some pointed questions.Probability is Suzuki will then make a "goodwill"gesture and pay for all or a big part of it.From their point of view it must be worth it to avoid bad publicity.

[Stingo]

She's done just under eleven thousand miles - mostly easy commuter stuff - two long journeys Devon to west Herts - should be more than man enough is my opinion. Serviced iaw the book.

Yep - appreciate the dealer will still want their share - it just seems strange that Suzuki 'appear' to wash their hands of 'parts' after 30 months and no real thrashing or abuse. It's also frustrating that their customer services seem unable or reluctant to reveal how they reach the decisions that they do - you can't get past the management/customer interface (probably because they need a flak jacket type system - just being slightly cynical!).

[Cloggsy]

Sounds a bit like my dealer/manufacturer - Once they've got your money, they don't give a crap about you :roll: Saying that, your K3 will now be out of warranty, so Suzuki will probably tell you to 'poke off' :roll: :cry:

[northwind]

Condition of the rest of the box would be interesting too- if third's in bits and the rest are mint then it's blatantly a manufacturing fault. If they're all dinged up, then they could try and point the finger at you for abuse.

[rictus01]

your K3 will now be out of warranty, so Suzuki will probably tell you to 'poke off' :roll: :cry:

be interesting to get them to admit the bikes only built to last 30 months :shock:

Wonder if they'll include that in the advertising :oops:


Cheers Mark.

[Stingo]

Well, I've had time to consider some options - I have sent an email to Bike magazine (didn't have the address for RiDE)moutlining what I've said above. Tomorrow, I'm going to visit the workshop and ask if I can take photos of the damage just 'for the record' so to speak. I've decided to just let them deal with the repair, because it's got to be done, and my shed is chokka with 'stuff' (garage denied!). I just need them to firm up on the estimate a bit - they're already charging high odds at the mo anyway - then I'll too them the 20% voucher for parts and see if that wipes the smirk from they're faces!! Not that they're horrible people or anything - it's just that they want all my money!! :D

Ooh - and thanks for your comments by the way. I expect Suzuki will take ages to reply to my letter - in the mean time I just want my bike back :cry:

[Stingo]

Short update - went to view the damage - I will post piccies later. Basically, the 'rogue' part, 3rd gear, has 4 lugs that sit in a splined shaft - the shaft drives this part of the gear, therefore it is the 'driven' end, however in this case all four lugs have snapped off the main assembly!! There doesn't appear to be any other obvious nasty damage, certainly not as dramatic as chunks flying around! Anyway - just thought you'd be interested, as I say, I'll post the pictures later..

[skidmarx]

I would have thought they would have been quite happy to give you 20% of the price of the part......but they'll charge you full price for the labour so you'll end up with 1% off yer bill!

[Stingo]

Well, the shop have indeed knocked off 20% of the cost on all the Suzuki parts on production of the handy voucher - so at the moment, the roses are starting to push through the manure...so to speak!!

A little correction to my earlier description, the four lugs that have seperated themselves don't normally sit in the splined shaft - they locate on another part of the drive. The splined shaft supports everything - but I'm sure lots of you out there know that already...so I'll shut up.








Where's me coat? :D

[Stingo]

Hope this works - a series of pictures - the complete assembly one shows the damage in the lower rack, right hand quadrant (driven end of the left hand side of the 2nd cog from right).
I reckon any other damage was probably caused by the bits flying off. Views/opinions?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/tirelessboy/th_Thebits.jpg (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/tirelessboy/Thebits.jpg)
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/tirelessboy/th_3rdgeardamage2.jpg (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/tirelessboy/3rdgeardamage2.jpg)
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/tirelessboy/th_3rdgeardamage1.jpg (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/tirelessboy/3rdgeardamage1.jpg)
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/tirelessboy/th_completeassy.jpg (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/tirelessboy/completeassy.jpg)


Parts cost £294 (20% was deducted with the voucher)

[Stingo]

So, Saturday March 11th - got a letter back from Suzuki already - that was faster than I expected.

It just confirms that their original decision stands.

A couple of quotes straight from the letter:
Quote
'Expectations of reliability and build quality are high when you purchase a Suzuki motorcyle and any concern is disappointing.' Unquote

They do also say that my machine is now 8 months outside the 24 month warranty period, which , yep, fair enough, although when the incident happened it was actually 6 months to the day - but, yes , I know, still outside the warranty period.

Another quote:
Suzuki is always prepared to give consideration to an out of warranty/goodwill request and there are three important factors to consider when deciding whether or not a claim can be approved. These are; 1) the age of the machine 2) That an authorised Suzuki dealer has assessed the machine and any failed part and established that the failure is the result of deficient manufacture. 3)The machine's service history reflects regular servicing using authorised Suzuki dealerships.' Unquote.

So, what do you think. I've got the service history so we can rule out point 3. Three people on the phone told me it was the age so presumably we can rule out point 2. Sadly, the letter doesn't add (or take away) anything about the age justification thing that they told me about on the phone - nor does the letter re-iterate that it is because of age.

I will certainly write to Suzuki again - a.to thank them for their prompt reply and b. to take issue about the 6 month 8 month discrepancy and perhaps c. to be a pain in the @r$e!!

Feedback/comments always welcome!! Soon be Christmas!!

[secret squirrel]

Sale of Goods Act. Contact trading standards and find out what recourse you have and tell Suzuki you are doing so as you believe it is in breach of the SOGA.

Most people on here will not have had that problem so you could point out the parts were faulty at manufacture meaning Suzuki have an obligation to replace them. Worth a try.

:)

[Stingo]

I've had a read of the SOGA. The crucial thing in this case (it would appear) is that I would have to prove that there was a problem in the manufacturing of the part, so, if they wanted to, Suzuki could make me get the part tested by a metallurgist or similar expert presumably.
It's just sad here that the 'goodwill' doesn't seem to stretch to six months - although I've got up to six years to bring it to court (in England)!!

[secret squirrel]

If it was not the case of faulty manufacture, I would suggest that everyone on this site would have had this problem. I think that the fact people haven't would suggest a fault with your specific part.

You need to contact and get advice from Trading Standards and/or the CAB.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm should help.

[Stingo]

Yes - fair point...I can see that... 8)

[Warthog]

Certainly CAB would be a good move, but I think threatening them with masses of publicity in BIKE would be your best bet. I can't see how Suzuki would like a big double page spread on "My SV650 ate itself after 30 months and they don't care". Have the magazines got back to you yet?

[Jelster]

Although having some basic engineering knowledge, the one thing that does strike me is that although the part itself may have been sound, maybe its installation was incorrect, or maybe even a supporting part (the lugs that hold it in place) were faulty.

Either way, I would have steam coming out of my ears if I were in the same position. Looking at the pictures, the gear itself seems to be OK, it's not as if it was out of line so adverse pressure was put on it.

Good luck.

.

[raymond smith]

a visit to a solicitor dealing in consumer matters may help. in view of the attitude of suzuki on this matter and similar issues i would have to think hard about buying another one. motorcyclists seem to get shoddy treatment compared to car drivers. why? perhaps there is a lawer out here who would look after our rights and give advice etc at a discounted price or whatever

[Stingo]

Have the magazines got back to you yet?

Only received an auto reply from Bike mag - keep meaning to nip out to get a copy of Ride - BUT I do like the title Warthog suggested 'My SV ate itself
....etc'!! :lol: :lol:

I'm currently waiting for a reply to my second letter - so I guess I ought to crack on with putting the whole story together good and proper like... 8)

[Peter Henry]

This is the first time I have read this thread and must say that it is indeed very concerning, it has to be for anyone that owns a bike. The present stance from "corporate" Suzuki is to my mind somewhat disappointing.

Surely no-one should be expected to accept the failure of such a major component so shortly after the expiry of the warranty period? To overcome the potential bad publicity that you could so easily create over this issue one would have thought that Suzuki would seek to broker some kind of compromise with you,even if this only stretched to covering the cost of the replacement parts.

Unfortunately this might not pan out as you hope and you will be left to foot the bill, a further indication that the kindred spirit amongst the biking community is not at all shared by many of the manufacturers, who have a main purpose and that is to sell product.

The greatest impact to be felt from a tale such as this is of course the second hand market and we all know how the story will perpetuate from here...a wise old sage sucks in through teeth and advises "oh no you don't want to buy a second hand Sv,the gearboxes f*ck up after 2 years."

I really hope this can be concluded to your satisfaction and believe that none of us should be smug as who is to say that no matter what make of bike we own, that our treatment should a similar situation arise be any different from our own respective manufacturer.

Good luck with it.

[Stingo]

Many thanks for your reply Peter. Sadly, what you say is doubtlessly true - it is all about sales - and that is what infuriates more really - that , and the apparent inability to reach a compromise. You do everything the corporation advise, and they still have the audacity to leave you high and dry - I wonder how much of it is to do with the indivdual in the company that deals with these problems, as opposed to the company itself? It can be quite difficult to get past these people - they could just be having a bad day, turn down the application and then have to stick by their decision which they've made on behalf of the company. Perhaps if I wrote to a higher authority within Suzuki, I would get a different result. For the moment though, I'm waiting for a reply from my last letter.....

[SV650Racer]

Whilst agreeing with your concerns when it comes to manufacturers paying out on claims outside of warranty periods it could set a dangerous precedent. IE meaning that warranty periods become extinct and where to draw the line.

\Tough one.

[Scoobs]

Whilst agreeing with your concerns when it comes to manufacturers paying out on claims outside of warranty periods it could set a dangerous precedent. IE meaning that warranty periods become extinct and where to draw the line.

\Tough one.

But they can and do at times offer a goodwill gesture with the express terms that it is not accepting any liability.

[SV650Racer]

yup they do...but TBH not very often. Your going the right route though by writing to them. I am though unsure of what legally you can do as said above proving it could be very hard, costly and time consuming.

Mind you a grand seems very steep for that kind of repair... :?:

[Banus]

hi,
Its all our worst nightmare - a repair bill for over a grand !! I nearly picked one up myself for a gearbox related problem.
Is the gearbox the SV's achilies heal ? - I Seem to read a lot of gearbox threads?
These dealers make me sick ! They swarm all over you to get your business and make all sorts of aftercare promises but when push comes to shove they dont want to know and you may as well talk to the wall.
I'm sure if the boot was on the other foot - you'd have received legal papers threatening all sorts of action by now - Good luck :oops:

[Stingo]

Well, it's Friday...and the reply from Suzuki has arrived - once again congrats for the speed. That's as good as it gets I'm afraid - they're standing their ground which is only proper really - they just re-iterate their stance on the business and say:
Quote 'Other than implication of the warranty period Suzuki does not stipulate a life expectancy for component parts, which are subject to varying conditions of use imposed upon them' Unquote. :shock:

Do you think that means they think I've got clumsy feet but they're just too polite to come right out and say it?!! :oops:


They also mention the fact that the bike is seven months out of warranty... :roll:
I guess I'll have to look for another tree to bark up!!

Never mind...soon be Christmas.... :cry: Now, I wonder if the chimney sweep needs some young children to help him.... :-k

[northwind]

Do you think that means they think I've got clumsy feet but they're just too polite to come right out and say it?!! :oops:


It's their way of telling you that if you were to pursue it, they'll blame rider error, I think.

If it were me, I'd not write this off so easily. I don't think Suzuki are being especially unreasonable, but at the same time they could do a lot better.

[kwak zzr]

something simalair happen'd to a friend of mine, he had cam trouble on his gpz500s he phoned kawasaki and they paid half the final bill. :D
sounds like suzuki are totaly unreasonable. :(

[Anonymous]

No 1. Go get the parts from the dealer IMMEDIATELY. If the dealer refuses to hand the parts over, say that you will visit the local trading standards officer, followed by the police, for theft of your property.

No 2. Write a letter to Suzuki, copied to the Dealer, advising that you are reserving your rights to have the failed component examined by experts, and if the components are found to have a manufacturing defect, that you will seek recompense through the courts. Note that Suzuki have declined the option to examine the parts themselves and say that you are unclear on what authority they have rejected the claim.

No 3. Ring the Engineering Dept at The University of Plymouth (I think you live in Plymouth?) and ask if they have anyone who could look at your failed gear and give you an off-the-record view. I would have thought they would do that. If they won't, try a begging e-mail to Dr Rich, who has the odd University contact in the west country.

No 4. If expert authority says it's a metallurgical or manufacturing defect, go see a Solicitor and prepare to sue them. A defect is a defect regardless of age - although some allowance for wear and tear is taken into account.

No 5. If expert authority says that it looks like major wheelies in 3rd have caused it, slink off wounded but wiser.

Generally, gears don't fail unless over stressed or defective. They do eventually wear out but it takes a loooooooong time. Not at your mileage. (Unless you are a nutter !! :lol: :lol:)

[Peter Henry]

El Boc...I am surprised at the omission in your list of suggestions, turning up when the dealership is full of potential customers and kicking up a right fuss over your problem. Followed by a half house brick jettisoned through the shop plate glass window on your departure?

You are far too learned and diplomatic for one so young. :wink:

[dirtydog]

El Boc...I am surprised that in your list of suggestions, turning up when the dealership is full of potential customers and kicking up a right fuss over your problem. Followed by a half house brick jettisoned through the shop plate glass window on your departure?

You are far too learned and diplomatic for one so young. :wink:



I believe that is the next step isn't it? :wink:

[Stingo]

There is indeed a large engineering & science faculty at the uni, and there is some sort of analysis/testing department within that area (according to the website) - so that is an angle I am considering.

I'll let the dust settle for a couple of days - let the mists clear and all that - I'll visit the dealer to reclaim the old parts now that the new have been ordered and write to the uni - if the cost is minimal then I may well consider having it tested - there is a problem there though. When analysing something for its make-up or manufacturing quality, wouldn't they need some sort of datum to work from? ie another similar part to allow the resulting data to be plotted one against the other.

I guess that's something I could ask them. El Boc - how ironic your signature is...patron of lost causes!! :lol:

Whist it has oft been said that I am 'looney tunes' :lol: , I am actually cr@p at pulling wheelies and so never bother, therefore it is indeed difficult to conclude that the gears have been overstressed. I do in a weird way see Suzuki's point but one would have thought that they would reach an amicable compromise :roll:

So there we have it - it's not all over yet - now, where's that brick? It's around here somewhere.......

[Biker Biggles]

This thread is a good example of why we should not take adverts to finance the site.If Suzuki sponsored us we could not have this thread.Sorry about the derail.
Keep plugging away.Any joy with the Mags?

[Stingo]

Nowt on the mag front yet - just need to finish off the 'story' now that I have the letter from Suzuki......My SV ate itsel and Suzi don't care.....great stuff....

[Iansv]

One of the essex guys curvy sv ate a gear.... I'll try and dig up the thread, may be useful to show its not exactly a first...

Edit: found the thread but was probably caused by the chain snap after all...

http://forums.sv650.org/viewtopic.php?t=20441&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Anonymous]

El Boc...I am surprised at the omission in your list of suggestions, turning up when the dealership is full of potential customers and kicking up a right fuss over your problem. Followed by a half house brick jettisoned through the shop plate glass window on your departure?

You are far too learned and diplomatic for one so young. :wink:

Nah.....Pete, I had me Wincarnis-Sanatogen Shandy this week so feeling quite mellow..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stingo, I am NOT an engineering expert, so all my opinions are boll*x, but what that looks like to me is a shear failure - it's so clean it's like the heat treatment was wrong and it's embrittled - or something. A proper engineer would probably have a look at the failure mechanism under a microscope, might do a hardness test (that would take all of 15 mins!) and could probably give you a fairly good opinion in half-an-hour max.

Don't give up - I HATE service personnel who try to wriggle out of responsibility with a letter saying "out of warranty"!!!

[Stingo]

Yes - I have to admit that I know nothing of testing/metallurgy etc so nothing ventured nothing gained and all that ...I'll be looking closely at the uni organisation this weekend - see who I need to contact.

Faint heart never er....lets not go there!! U rated after all!! 8) Oh and many thanks El Boc...

I'll just check out that other thread....

[Stingo]

....back again...yes...good pics :shock: funny place to stow a chain though! :lol:

[Stingo]

I've sent a plea to the universitee,
Test my cog - it's number three!!
:roll:

Awaiting a reply - need it sorted,
Before I die!

And the new bits have arrived,
Soon be on the road for a drive!!

Now, where's me coat...

[northwind]

El Boc...I am surprised at the omission in your list of suggestions, turning up when the dealership is full of potential customers and kicking up a right fuss over your problem. Followed by a half house brick jettisoned through the shop plate glass window on your departure?

You are far too learned and diplomatic for one so young. :wink:

It's not the dealership's decision or responsibility... They've quite correctly referred it to Suzuki to have the warranty work considered, and they've had it declined, you can't blame them, and causing a scene in their shop will just sour relationships unneccesarily.

[Peter Henry]

Northy...I take your point,but oh would Stingo not feel so relieved at my suggested tactics?

Perhaps beeter jumping on a plane and kicking up a stink down at Suzuki Motor Corporation HQ.

Stingo, when you get to Tokyo airport just slip a pice of paper to the cabbie..the address is below for you....


新卒採用情報
キャリア採用情報

スズキグループ
採用情報へのリンク :P :P :P

[northwind]

Northy...I take your point,but oh would Stingo not feel so relieved at my suggested tactics?

Probably, but not if it's them that are fixing the bike :shock:

[Peter Henry]

Northy...A very cunning point so blatantly overlooked by yours truly! :? :oops: :P

[Stingo]

Unbelievable - I think I've found somebody with the same/very similar problem
See what you think...
http://www.suzukiownersclub.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33970&PN=1


Have asked the guy to contact me...

[Stingo]

Okay - so - today I had an email back from Plymouth Uni Technology faculty who said that my problem has been put to six sections there for review - so that's quite positive.

I have also written a letter to the CEO of Suzuki again voicing my displeasure - so, it's the waiting game again...

Don't get too excited now!! :lol:

[Stingo]

Yesterday, I had an email from the uni saying that they'd be happy to test the damaged gear cog for possible manufacturing defect..guess what...

it'll cost 500 quid! Bargain 1.
:shock:



:lol:




:lol: :lol: :lol:







:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So anyway, you may be aware that the bike has now been repaired and is back where she belongs...

The cost
£294 parts (including 20% discount)

£783 labour


Bargain 2! :shock:

Lets see what the postman brings.....

[kwak zzr]

The cost
£294 parts (including 20% discount)

£783 labour


Bargain 2!



:shock: :shock: :shock:

[Stingo]

Had a reply from the CEO - Suzuki have offered to pay for the parts!! :D

Should I bite their hand off?! :D


Seems like a good result to me...

Views?

[cyphertheory]

a good result,

nice one on having the persistance to go all the way on this one.

hope you get it done and dusted asap!

[Peter Henry]

Stingo...I think that was probably the best you could have hoped for and I would personally mark that down as a success mate. Well done. :wink:

[northwind]

I'd say so... I'd say well done Suzuki as well, though it'd be nice if you'd not had to chase it so hard.

[fizzwheel]

Stingo...I think that was probably the best you could have hoped for and I would personally mark that down as a success mate. Well done. :wink:

What Peter said.

Thats a great result.

[Biker Biggles]

Well done.I bet someone from Suzuki GB reads this site among others.They really don't want to see their customer care being slagged off on a well read and respected public forum like this.Well done to Suzuki as well for waking up.